Oppo to stop production? This is not a joke. - Page 41 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1201 of 3355 Old 04-08-2018, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post
75 bucks vs 5 bucks. The DACs are more expensive, that's for sure.

Better sounding than my Onkyo's DACs? On paper, yes. To the human ear once it is added to an audio chain? Maybe. Maybe not. Depends on the chain.

Maybe if Oppo used the DACs (like the DACs found in my Onkyo RZ and similarly priced D&M AVRs), they could have lowered the price point on their most expensive units. By at least $70.

Holy cow, percentage wise, that's a huge percentage off of the asking price for their player. Could have even been a make-or-break point is success.

But alas, they chose not to go that way. Maybe if they could go back in time and rethink that decision, they may change it.

-T
That doesn't make any sense whatsoever if you understand the reasons buyers have for purchasing different models within similar makes. It ain't the 70 bucks. It never is. I've sold off of window stickers ranging from $5000 to $150,000 my whole adult life and price is on the low end scale for why people eventually make buying decisions. "Hope for gain or fear of loss" are they only two reasons anyone makes a buying decision. Not enough of both are the reasons things stay on the shelf.

They built too good of a mousetrap and there weren't enough mice to keep them going. Dumbing down their product would have just gotten them the Cadillac Cimarron and pricing out their loyal buyers of modest means would have gotten them the torches and pitchforks so they did the honourable thing and fell on their sword. Just my take.
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post #1202 of 3355 Old 04-08-2018, 01:17 PM
 
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Why would anyone buy a player from a company that has telegraphed it has no future?

Sorry but about the only I'd have one now is if someone gave it to me.
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post #1203 of 3355 Old 04-08-2018, 01:21 PM
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@jsmiddleton4 Have you ever owned an OPPO? If you did, then you probably would not have asked that question. I have had an 103D for 3 years, and has run perfectly.
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post #1204 of 3355 Old 04-08-2018, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Madmax67 View Post
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Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post
75 bucks vs 5 bucks. The DACs are more expensive, that's for sure.

Better sounding than my Onkyo's DACs? On paper, yes. To the human ear once it is added to an audio chain? Maybe. Maybe not. Depends on the chain.

Maybe if Oppo used the DACs (like the DACs found in my Onkyo RZ and similarly priced D&M AVRs), they could have lowered the price point on their most expensive units. By at least $70.

Holy cow, percentage wise, that's a huge percentage off of the asking price for their player. Could have even been a make-or-break point is success.

But alas, they chose not to go that way. Maybe if they could go back in time and rethink that decision, they may change it.

-T
That doesn't make any sense whatsoever if you understand the reasons buyers have for purchasing different models within similar makes. It ain't the 70 bucks. It never is. I've sold off of window stickers ranging from $5000 to $150,000 my whole adult life and price is on the low end scale for why people eventually make buying decisions. "Hope for gain or fear of loss" are they only two reasons anyone makes a buying decision. Not enough of both are the reasons things stay on the shelf.

They built too good of a mousetrap and there weren't enough mice to keep them going. Dumbing down their product world have just gotten them the Cadillac Cimarron and pricing out their loyal buyers of modest means would have gotten them the torches and pitchforks so they did the honourable thing and fell on their sword. Just my take.
I see I might be in the minority in this discussion. It makes total sense to me. How many times have you come across a poster at AVS who's not going to spend the extra 50 bucks on the next model up of a graphics card because there's no bang for the buck? You think everybody is running out and buying gtx-1080 graphics cards? Using The Mousetrap analogy, that's one hell of a card. Is it overkill for what most people need? Of course. That's why they don't buy it. But Nvidia has plenty of other products that they sell that keeps them in business. It's not all about the 1080.

Oppo had limited product lines.

More often than not, it is about the money.

-T
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post #1205 of 3355 Old 04-08-2018, 01:28 PM
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I think there's quite a bit of value in the 205 especially if you're more into the audio side of things; less so the 203. Maybe a little different pricing scheme would've worked to move more units. Say...$1995 for the 205 and $349 for the 203. Oh, and ditch the 7.1 analogue outs on the 203. If someone is actually using those for multi-channel surround format into a higher-end processor, then they would get the 205 anyway, not the 203.

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post #1206 of 3355 Old 04-08-2018, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by gene9p View Post
point is most high end audio is hand built with great customer service. Most Video is made cheap with a few exceptions and customer service leaves a lot to be desired. OLEDS are built cheap with expensive panels as are some of the higher priced LCD's. A breeze could knock most of them over so hanging them on some sort of mount is pretty much a necessity.Blu ray players are empty boxes with a tiny board and few features. The lack of necessary FW updates makes them disposable, so most are tossed for a newer one. OPPO's on the other hand are quality built, great customer service, and regular updates to make them last for years and then some.
There are good and bad customer service stories for just about every product imaginable. Remember, the majority of forum posts will be to discuss problems, not praise companies so it *appears* that there are a bunch of angry consumers but thats only because posting "Im happy" just isnt productive. I realize Oppo has a great track record for service. Thats awesome. But it doesnt mean all of the rest are universally bad.

So OLEDS are built "cheap" with "expensive" panels. Hmmm. Are they "cheap" then or not? I dont see why. Mine is very thin, yes but its not cheap feeling at all. I suspect the Sony Z9D series arent cheap feeling either. ??????

My lowly UHD player has received FW updates as recently as last month and its ancient by video product standards. I understand that Oppo exceeds the others in the updates and support dept. but they ought to for what they charge for players. Every piece of gear gets FW updates pretty regularly these days. TVs included. Not just Oppo players.

All gear is in danger at anytime of becoming obsolete and therefore can be thrown away. When new HDMI versions get released or some other HDR thing then that will affect every player out there from the $99 Wally Wolrd special to the $1200 boutique player. FW can only carry you so long. Perhaps with the amount of change this industry sees its wise to spend less on a player and just get a new one every few years? I dunno.
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post #1207 of 3355 Old 04-08-2018, 02:33 PM
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It is so sad that OPPO is going out of business and for not a good reason. They essentially do not have any competition and were default choice for audiophiles. I own Oppo-105 for several years and it proved to be irreplaceable workhorse in my audio/video system. I have a minimal configuration so OPPO serves as hi end universal disk player/prepro/DAC/preamp. I was thinking about replacing it with two components - optical disk drive with digital audio output and 5.1 channel DAC/preamp. But there is nothing on market to consider other than OPPO 205 and now its going out of sale too. I do not care much about video part of Oppo 205 though it is nice to have 4K playback - I would buy 205 just for its audio capabilities which are ideally suited for multichannel set up. For me it would be natural to replace Oppo 105 with Benchmark DAC3 since my front L/R amp is Benchmark AHB2. In combination with Oppo 105's superior audio sound is super clean over DefTech STL which are also very linear hi end speakers with built-in subs. DAC3 while cost over $2000 is only two channel and utilizes ESS9028PRO which is a notch below Oppo 205's higher end ESS9038PRO. Of course at that hi end point difference in sound (most noise/distortions which are already very low on both ESS9028PRO and ESS9038PRO) would be hardly noticeable and besides chip alone is not enough. There is also how clock and signal handled and lot of other finer points of audio component design. It might be that 205 is not as good as DAC3 despite of having higher end DAC. But still - Oppo decodes and feeds 7.1 channels and can be easily configured for surround sound (which is much better that stereo) and player every format that exist. So yes Oppo 205 will be greatly missed.

Of course there is always option to buy AVR but after owning Marantz which turned out to be an utter garbage I am not enticed to go this path again.
Agree completely. I am in the same boat. Have a Marantz for Home Theater, it is great for that purpose, but the Oppo is in another league for sound quality.

There was nothing available with the same sound quality that had the features of an Oppo for anywhere close to the price.

An existing company that specializes in good value high end electronics should take over Oppo. Parasound, Emotiva, and Cambridge come to mind.
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post #1208 of 3355 Old 04-08-2018, 02:33 PM
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good post but I never considered OPPO high end

in fact, maybe if they were high end they would have survived.

Seems their is no mid market in AV anymore and OPPO learned this the hard way.
High end in quality, but not price. That might have worked if they were Denon/Marantz with their greater name recognition, but a lot harder for a small independent company(yes, I know they were owned by a large one) with much less name recognition. As a niche company, maybe if they charged more, they'd still be in business.
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post #1209 of 3355 Old 04-08-2018, 02:47 PM
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Quality equipment (like OPPO) can last for decades. I'm still using my Pioneer LDS1 Laser-disc player purchased in 1987. Spun a thousand discs. Still works perfect (of course it doesn't get as much use as it once did)
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post #1210 of 3355 Old 04-08-2018, 02:48 PM
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An existing company that specializes in good value high end electronics should take over Oppo. Parasound, Emotiva, and Cambridge come to mind.
Exactly, Parasound fits the bill perfectly. There are mostly a 2-channel company with products that are feature packed and punch above their weight (like Oppo) but yet that cater to and recognize the HT crowd by offering a home theater bypass feature on their pre-amps and integrated.
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post #1211 of 3355 Old 04-08-2018, 03:30 PM
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Oppo should have developed a cheaper version of the UDP 203 that did not have analog outputs, had 2 HDMI output, included streaming apps, had the same video quality of the 203/205, and included the anti-jitter for the HDMI output that the 205 has.

That would have been the competitive and volume seller to those with AVRs/processors. Many people with AVRs/processors did not want to pay for the added features of the 203 over the Sony X-800.

It is easy to best the audio performance of the 203 in many higher end AVRs and pre/pros. The 205 was something special. The SNR was off the chart. The ESS Sabre was really something special - transparent and revealing like no other DAC I have heard.

I hope someone picks up the pieces and fills the loss for the amazing analog performance the 105/205 had. It doesn't have to be a physical media player.
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post #1212 of 3355 Old 04-08-2018, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by xirtam2005 View Post
Oppo should have developed a cheaper version of the UDP 203 that did not have analog outputs, had 2 HDMI output, included streaming apps, had the same video quality of the 203/205, and included the anti-jitter for the HDMI output that the 205 has.

That would have been the competitive and volume seller to those with AVRs/processors. Many people with AVRs/processors did not want to pay for the added features of the 203 over the Sony X-800.

It is easy to best the audio performance of the 203 in many higher end AVRs and pre/pros. The 205 was something special. The SNR was off the chart. The ESS Sabre was really something special - transparent and revealing like no other DAC I have heard.

I hope someone picks up the pieces and fills the loss for the amazing analog performance the 105/205 had. It doesn't have to be a physical media player.
Yep, that’s what I suggested several pages ago. A kickass prepro for ~ $1499 and a more basic “202” UHD player for ~ $349 both would sell well. And many would buy them together.
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Originally Posted by partcrash View Post
Btw, thank you to whoever suggested local Magnolia / Best Buy might have some of the 205s left. They didn’t advertise it, but my local store had “a very limited number” of 205s left at retail price and they were selling “two per hour” or so. They were out of 203s already. I grabbed one 205 and will sell privately my 203 which I bought directly from Oppo when it comes in next week.

So ... if you are in the states and you want a 205- act fast and you might get one.

Edit: thank you @dnoonie
Read the posts from members still getting the 205 from local their Best Buy and I thought give it a try. Went to our local Magnolia yesterday and did ask for OPPO Blu-ray players in general and the sales associate did not know what I am talking about. He then called his Magnolia superior and not one of them did know what “OPPO” is they never heard about this brand. They googled it on their phone and tried to sell me a Panasonic instead.

I was flabbergasted employees working at a higher end electronics department never even heard about that brand and immediately came to my mind this is one reason why OPPO is going out of business with their Blu-ray player product line.
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post #1214 of 3355 Old 04-08-2018, 04:09 PM
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Read the posts from members still getting the 205 from local their Best Buy and I thought give it a try. Went to our local Magnolia yesterday and did ask for OPPO Blu-ray players in general and the sales associate did not know what I am talking about. He then called his Magnolia superior and not one of them did know what “OPPO” is they never heard about this brand. They googled it on their phone and tried to sell me a Panasonic instead.

I was flabbergasted employees working at a higher end electronics department never even heard about that brand and immediately came to my mind this is one reason why OPPO is going out of business with their Blu-ray player product line.
Most people buy sub $100 BD players. I bought a Sammy UHD player used and only bought one UHD disc in the 6 months i have had it. Disk players are on the way out. I still got my $1300 Pioneer Elite DV59-AVI from 2004 and it never missed a beat. Also still have a OPPO83 and 103, and really have no plans to buy anymore UHD disk unless they are dirt cheap. I guess i should buy 3 OPPO 203's while i can.

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Most people buy sub $100 BD players. I bought a Sammy UHD player used and only bought one UHD disc in the 6 months i have had it. Disk players are on the way out. I still got my $1300 Pioneer Elite DV59-AVI from 2004 and it never missed a beat. Also still have a OPPO83 and 103, and really have no plans to buy anymore UHD disk unless they are dirt cheap. I guess i should buy 3 OPPO 203's while i can.
I'm glad I am not "most" people and I also know quality costs money.
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post #1216 of 3355 Old 04-08-2018, 04:20 PM
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I'm glad I am not "most" people and I also know quality costs money.
Well i just placed a order for three 203's. Most peeps have never even heard of OPPO. I will never stream and will always use disk players So now i got three in case my two 83s die or my 103.

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Well i just placed a order for three 203's. Most peeps have never even heard of OPPO. I will never stream and will always use disk players So now i got three in case my two 83s die or my 103.
Three? Wow! Wondering if the 203/205 will support HDR10+ in a future firmware update? Does anybody know?

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post #1218 of 3355 Old 04-08-2018, 04:45 PM
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Read the posts from members still getting the 205 from local their Best Buy and I thought give it a try. Went to our local Magnolia yesterday and did ask for OPPO Blu-ray players in general and the sales associate did not know what I am talking about. He then called his Magnolia superior and not one of them did know what “OPPO” is they never heard about this brand. They googled it on their phone and tried to sell me a Panasonic instead.

I was flabbergasted employees working at a higher end electronics department never even heard about that brand and immediately came to my mind this is one reason why OPPO is going out of business with their Blu-ray player product line.
The catch is the Magnolia store has to a "Design Center" store which are not very common.
Lots of BB's have a Magnolia Store but they're not a Design Center.

 
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post #1219 of 3355 Old 04-08-2018, 04:48 PM
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I bought a Sammy UHD player used and only bought one UHD disc in the 6 months i have had it. Disk players are on the way out.
Out for whom? I have hundreds of DVDs and BR and probably 20 UHD so far. Just bought 4 new UHD yesterday from BB. I wait for the $15 sales or the "3 for $50" sales and snatch 'em up. I'll be spinning discs for a lonnng time. So, I bought a 205 and a 203 with this announcement. Picture and sound quality can't be touched on discs.
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I think there's quite a bit of value in the 205 especially if you're more into the audio side of things; less so the 203. Maybe a little different pricing scheme would've worked to move more units. Say...$1995 for the 205 and $349 for the 203. Oh, and ditch the 7.1 analogue outs on the 203. If someone is actually using those for multi-channel surround format into a higher-end processor, then they would get the 205 anyway, not the 203.

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I was thinking the same about the analog outs of the 203. Lower price point without those might have helped.
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post #1221 of 3355 Old 04-08-2018, 05:11 PM
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The catch is the Magnolia store has to a "Design Center" store which are not very common.
Lots of BB's have a Magnolia Store but they're not a Design Center.
This was a great hint, THANK YOU! Looked up where my closest Magnolia Design Center is located, called and they still have one in the warehouse, ordered and will get it on Friday! This sales associate was awesome, even mentioned and made sure I know Oppo going out of business.
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post #1222 of 3355 Old 04-08-2018, 05:13 PM
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Out for whom? I have hundreds or DVDs and BR and probably 20 UHD so far. Just bought 4 new UHD yesterday from BB. I wait for the $15 sales or the "3 for $50" sales and snatch em up. I'll be spinning discs for a lonnng time. So, I bought a 205 and a 203 with this announcement. Picture and sound quality can't be touched on discs.



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For many people. People like you and myself will always have disk, seems most are going into streaming these days. I am not into movies much, and most of my disk are old tv shows.

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post #1223 of 3355 Old 04-08-2018, 05:14 PM
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Three? Wow! Wondering if the 203/205 will support HDR10+ in a future firmware update? Does anybody know?
Just nice to have back ups in case my older OPPO's go out on me. I think the day will come there will be no more disk players for sale.

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post #1224 of 3355 Old 04-08-2018, 05:16 PM
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Oppo should have developed a cheaper version of the UDP 203 that did not have analog outputs, had 2 HDMI output, included streaming apps, had the same video quality of the 203/205, and included the anti-jitter for the HDMI output that the 205 has.

That would have been the competitive and volume seller to those with AVRs/processors. Many people with AVRs/processors did not want to pay for the added features of the 203 over the Sony X-800.

It is easy to best the audio performance of the 203 in many higher end AVRs and pre/pros. The 205 was something special. The SNR was off the chart. The ESS Sabre was really something special - transparent and revealing like no other DAC I have heard.

I hope someone picks up the pieces and fills the loss for the amazing analog performance the 105/205 had. It doesn't have to be a physical media player.
If you worked for that company, and was in charge of their product lines, it would probably still be making products 🙂

-T
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Regarding long term quality - I have Casio calculator I bought in 1981 with original CASIO batteries. Yes, I never replaced batteries in 37 years since I bought CASIO and every time I turn switch on - it works. Where did you see batteries that last more than 37 years and still going strong and will still work after I die, who knows may be another 100 years? It feels almost like a perpetuum mobile. Unbelievable but CASIO made this things in 80s. OPPO is something of similar quality but of course unlike batteries or calculator video/audio standards evolve but old disks will still run. My grandma had LPs from early 20s century and I still can enjoy them, they still play okay. So BD does not go anywhere. I have very old audio cassettes which captured some unique moments of my life (when there were no video cameras yet) where I talk about high school, plans for the future, talk with my son, lot of unique stuff. Format is obsolete but you can still play them magnetic tapes - I bought cassette player online with no problem which also can convert records to mp3 file. And OPPO plays every audio/video format that exist today and will last for decades.
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Source/Dac/Pre: OPPO-105
Fronts: Benchmark AHB2 -> DefTech Mythos ST-Ls
Surrounds: Parasound Halo A23 -> DefTech Mythos Gems

Last edited by upsetter; 04-08-2018 at 05:24 PM.
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post #1226 of 3355 Old 04-08-2018, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by xirtam2005 View Post
The Parasound Halo Integrated has a good little preamp with ESS Sabre DACs, but it includes the amp. The DAC in the P5 is not as good as that in their Integrated. The better P7 and JC2 have no DACs, and the JC2 has no sub integration. I hope Parasound fills the gap.
Correct. I am still using my Bel Canto Pre 6 GenII to hook up the 205 to. It has the 7.1 analog input and XLR output, a dedicated true balanced XLR input/output. I only need HDMI for the picture. Even if I end up with a marantz 8805, I will still listen SACD and DVD AUDIO with the analog outs of OPPO. Not too mention stereo XLRs.

Last edited by Bardia; 04-08-2018 at 05:31 PM.
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post #1227 of 3355 Old 04-08-2018, 05:26 PM
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Awesome. this gives me something to work with, thanks guys!
You need to call ahead/ purchase so they have it brought to the store from the warehouse. My local Magnolia did not have any in stock and they need to bring it from warehouse and that takes a few days.
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post #1228 of 3355 Old 04-08-2018, 05:30 PM
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Three? Wow! Wondering if the 203/205 will support HDR10+ in a future firmware update? Does anybody know?
It seems like they are aware of the need to make HDR10+ to be offered and it will be released.
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post #1229 of 3355 Old 04-08-2018, 05:39 PM
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It seems like they are aware of the need to make HDR10+ to be offered and it will be released.
Thanks! So it will "only" require a firmware update meaning existing hardware will work with HDR10+ ?

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post #1230 of 3355 Old 04-08-2018, 05:41 PM
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Thanks! So it will "only" require a firmware update meaning existing hardware will work with HDR10+ ?
AFAIK, Oppo has not said anything about supporting HDR10+.
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