Oppo to stop production? This is not a joke. - Page 6 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #151 of 3337 Old 04-02-2018, 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by lbjack View Post
Many of us were mystified at how Sony could hype Dolby Vision without ensuring that it would work through HDMI and not just streaming. It appears that nobody is interested in making Dolby Vision work from a disk source. Well, now I understand. They just don’t give a damn, because mass consumers prefer degraded strearming video for the convenience. Which means there’s no future for disks, and OPPO knows it.
Blu-ray Discs and 4K Blu-rays Discs are far superior in sound quality and picture quality , but convenience of streaming is winning out in a big way. It worries me that we will only have the choice of streaming movies soon.
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post #152 of 3337 Old 04-02-2018, 10:32 PM
 
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For me, streaming 4k hdr all the time is also not viable because i have a data cap on my monthly internet plan (because of location and isp issuues, the one that provides unlimited data is not available at my location and i'll have to move my house) and as you know 4k hdr streaming sucks the most juice out of network data than any other networking activity, so 4k hdr streaming i can only do ocassionally not regularly, and with netflix, i find that they cap their 4k hdr video bitrates to <20mbps, the advantage with 4k hdr blu rays is you could see bitrates going higher than 60 mbps or more with certain scenes and that makes a genuine difference. bitrate is very important to PQ, not just getting a 4k hdr video to play if its bitrate is capped under 20.
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post #153 of 3337 Old 04-02-2018, 10:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Riot Nrrrd View Post
Hey, I'm glad theaterofpain posted that rant. Now I know next year's "cheapest LG player" will play all the SACDs and DVD-As that the Oppo players can!
The Sony will play SACD's and DVD Audio can be ripped to ISO's and played with a HTPC such as Kodi.
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post #154 of 3337 Old 04-02-2018, 11:11 PM
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Stupid question.... Where does one find Oppo players in Canada? It seems like I have to import them and that's always a PITA...
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post #155 of 3337 Old 04-02-2018, 11:37 PM
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Oppo to stop production? This is not a joke.

I wonder in 5 years if oppo will be remembered....
HD-DVD still is talked about here 10 years after it lost the HD format wars



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post #156 of 3337 Old 04-02-2018, 11:40 PM
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First I have to say that I am one of those people who enjoy the convenience of online streaming media. Just read about Oppo here and there, especially in times of the Sony DV screwjob. What I wonder is what is actually premium about those players? I mean they are built on cheap MediaTek crap. So also a big part of the software is delivered by them which is most probably the reason why people are still waiting for the Sony DV update. I own a Sony Android TV which is also built on MediaTek and the SW part sucks big time. Probably MediaTek's BD chipset line-up is a bit more potent with some embedded Linux that is better supported compared to Android...
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post #157 of 3337 Old 04-02-2018, 11:47 PM
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Dang i just pulled the trigger on one last week. If this true it getting boxed up & shipped back to OPPO. Because I'm sure FW updates are going to come real slow now. Should've stayed with my Panny.

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post #158 of 3337 Old 04-02-2018, 11:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sutton8 View Post
That is a bit harsh, Oppo was never created to cater to the wider value seeking customer. I wonder if the 203 had been a success from the start rather than bug ridden would they have done this now. The bad publicity damaged the overall brand. But that aside we are ever moving more into a steaming world and high end bluray players look to have a limited future. Which is presumably why the likes of Denon have not even bothered producing a UHD model.

I disagree , remember oppo built their name on upconverting DVD players, like this one.


I bought it in 2005 to feed my then $2k 42” Sony WEGA HD . It was value priced and made them the darling for many people.

They kept moving upscale in product and pricing, moving above the average mainstream pricing to videophile territory.
This limited their purchase funnel.

What this thread needs is a sales chart showing unit sales decline year year so it’s clear to all why this decision was made.


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post #159 of 3337 Old 04-03-2018, 12:03 AM
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So I purchased a 103 about 5 years ago and liked it so much that within a month I traded it in for a 105. I loved my 105 so much that when I upgraded my theater to 4k last year there was no question that I would upgrade the 105 to a 203, which I also love (as others have said apps would be nice but I have an xbox for that.) Like others, I'm sad to see a company I've recommended countless times going away. But with that said...

We're in the middle of building a vacation house with a dedicated theater that should be completed this fall. Upon hearing this sad news I almost immediately went to their site and purchased a second 203 for that project. I understand understand everyones fear about slow or non-existent firmware upgrades but the company has said that they intend to continue supporting existing customers and providing firmware upgrades. They have been one of the most customer focused companies I've ever personally dealt with so I think I'll give them the benefit of the doubt on this one. I suspect that it will be quite sometime before someone rises to the occasion and builds a player of comparable quality so in the mean time I plan to enjoy owning the best player you can't even buy anymore. And if at some point I start having disc playback issues I'll look for other options.
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post #160 of 3337 Old 04-03-2018, 12:04 AM
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I was hoping oppo might have been working on a standalone tone mapping device, which might have made sense as a next step in a streaming device world.

If they sold the ip, I'd love to know what brand is going to benefit. Maybe it was catch and kill?

In any case, the 203 is still a piece of gear i plan to keep in the rack for uhd hdr discs until it gets replaced by something better. Will that be the panny 820?

I also have the ub900 i prefer to use with with hd and dvd sources.

Sorry to hear the sad news. Thanks for the ride. I hope you still have a few tricks up your "update" sleeve.

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post #161 of 3337 Old 04-03-2018, 12:04 AM
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Sad news, but just goes to show how low the margins must be.

It seems there are onlu 2 segments -

1. Big companies who make mass market gear to be sold for cheap in big box stores, or
2. $$$ high end for rich people which may not in fact be that much better but sells on brand/status

The products for enthusiasts are dying.
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post #162 of 3337 Old 04-03-2018, 12:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbdudex View Post
I disagree , remember oppo built their name on upconverting DVD players, like this one.
...
Yeah I bought a 970 in Chinatown for $175 so I could play region 2/3 stuff. I never even considered them for blu ray or 4k because the pricing is squarely in the extreme enthusiast bracket. As disk and player sales decreased it probably made more sense to try to make more money selling fewer units but for people like me their prices just plain didn't work.
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post #163 of 3337 Old 04-03-2018, 12:20 AM
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I emailed some questions to Oppo and got a quick response, which I added to my article here.
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post #164 of 3337 Old 04-03-2018, 12:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Scott Wilkinson View Post
I emailed some questions to Oppo and got a quick response, which I added to my article here.
Great info Scott... Thanks for following up with them.
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post #165 of 3337 Old 04-03-2018, 12:33 AM
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This is really sad news as for me the Oppo players really have been the pinnacle of enthusiast AV disc spinners for years, and i am a proud and happy owner of the 205.

Perhaps the Chinese connection has been both the biggest asset and primary cause for the demise of the brand. Often people will say that the players are over priced etc but when you look at the 205 and compare it to similar audiophile products from niche enthusiast brands, these machines often cost thousands of dollars more than the Oppo. Access to large advanced factories and the buying power of the parent company no doubt the reason for the high value/performance ratio.

I imagine that Oppo HQ have looked at the numbers and decided to focus exclusively on the mobile phone business, this may be influenced by impending tariffs etc. A niche product with high manufacturing costs that diverts resources from the core mobile phone business is now perhaps considered a burden.

One thing i do not accept is that the lack of streaming apps was a primary cause. The absence of the apps could be due to the fact that this was in the pipeline but as player i think the machine benefits. It has a HDMI input whose primary purpose is for the attachment of streaming devices which will always be better supported, with more choice and updates that disc player based apps regardless of manufacturer. This way one can take advantage of the Oppo av performance while utilising the latest streaming tech.

Anyway a sad day, one can only hope that the brand will live on in a new form perhaps with a new name and that the core personnel in Oppo Digital USA can find a way to regroup and relaunch under another guise. I do fear this is unlikely and it really is the end of an era.
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post #166 of 3337 Old 04-03-2018, 12:39 AM
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I don't have 4k display content or care for it, but like to listen to music on disc. Do I need to get on for the sake of playing music on disc? Does the 203 suit me?

My display is a Sony 40es projector and an old Panasonic bluray player
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post #167 of 3337 Old 04-03-2018, 12:51 AM
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Say it ain't so, Joe. Though not the saddest news imaginable but quite dispiriting nonetheless. My 203 is my 4th Oppo.

I'd love to see their numbers to see if there is could be the possibility of an investment angel swooping in and buying Oppo's assets with the goal of turning around the company. I wonder if they tried shopping themselves around to one of the high-end AV conglomerates, though that kinda news is difficult to contain for very long. Well, I guess we won't be hearing much of "... can't say that because of Oppo's NDA..." comments unless they're signed in blood into perpetuity. Does their NDA cover the event of an Oppo ownership transferal? Were any of the Beta Testers unaware of Oppo's dire situation? Also, I'd love their take on the whole scenario. I bet Mssrs McClain and Pariseau both got reams of comments and insights.

What a sad day indeed.

Don't you just wish HDMI would crawl off to some darkened corner and die a sad, lonely death?
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post #168 of 3337 Old 04-03-2018, 01:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qirex View Post
Yeah, I bought a 970 in Chinatown for $175 so I could play Region 2/3 stuff.
Speaking of which ... I went to eBay to check for the expected price gouging (and found it), but was surprised to see a lot of listings for "Region-free" UDP-203's - all commanding a heavy premium (like US $250 or more) over the base cost that Oppo charges on their site for one. Is this some kind of delicate, intricate hardware mod that has some ridiculously expensive part and/or major labor time to create that justifies the large premium?
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post #169 of 3337 Old 04-03-2018, 01:55 AM
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Talk about bummed out. I have both a 95 used exclusively for music and a 203 for movies. I was contemplating picking up a 205 and selling the 95. Not sure what to do now. I always valued oppo for the ability to be a fantastic music player. The 95 stereo analog outs feeding my headphone amp and Sennheisers is fantastic. The 203 has made my DVD library viable again doing a fantastic job job upscaling DVDs to 4k, reminding me of the upconversion capability of the anchor bay processing in my old long gone 83.

I know some say pick one up, it will last forever. But things do break, and once they quit servicing players, you are stuck with a 1299 box of electronic parts. I know they say they'll continue to honor warranties and service players and provide FW updates, but the reality is once the last player is sold and the last warranty period is over, they'll quietly close shop. If they do keep the doors open beyond that, any true talent the company has will have long bolted for greener pastures, hopefully starting their own company. I suspect that going forward we'll have disc compatibility fw updates and that's about it.

I don't mind a plastic 4k blu ray player for 200 bucks, but I demand a good music player and my preferred format is disc, sacd, dvd-a, and cd. I'll continue to baby my 95 which plays sacd, DVD-a and ripped CDs via usb. Pick up a 205? Don't know, but I'll now pay more attention to what's available in a CD/SACD players for my next music player, maybe a marantz.

I know some will say they'll be worth a lot. Maybe initially there will be some gouging, but one of the value propositions of Oppo was fast, low cost, and flat rate servicing which made buying a used player, even years old a good risk/value proposition. Not now.

What to do.
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post #170 of 3337 Old 04-03-2018, 02:06 AM
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RIP 203 and 205.

I had a 203, but we went our separate ways early as I am a projector owner, and they never got that right, but I did respect the aspiration to try to be the best disc spinner.

I feel that, for anyone who isn’t needing to play SACD, you will find the new Panasonic 820 and 9000 will fill the gap, when (if?) they launch in the US.

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post #171 of 3337 Old 04-03-2018, 03:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Bigmoviefan View Post
I’d rather stream from a Roku and have an Oppo and get a 4K Blu-ray player that sounds great and has a great picture! I could care less if it had streaming apps!
The Oppo looks and sounds no different than than any other 4k player. Yet those other brands have apps. How do they do it?

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post #172 of 3337 Old 04-03-2018, 03:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Scott Wilkinson View Post
I emailed some questions to Oppo and got a quick response, which I added to my article here.
Great article and Q&A! Very encouraging to hear that OPPO will be continuing with product support including firmware updates

And very nice to have a definitive answer regarding this particular matter!:

Quote:
Q: Regarding the UDP-203 and 205 UHD Blu-ray players, have you released a firmware update that addresses the Sony implementation of Dolby Vision in its TVs? If you haven’t issued that update, do you expect to? If so, when?

A: We have firmware that supports Sony’s implementation of Dolby Vision in its TVs. The firmware is undergoing testing by Dolby right now. We hope to make it available to customers as soon as the test concludes that there is no problem with existing Dolby Vison-capable TVs as well as Sony TVs.
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post #173 of 3337 Old 04-03-2018, 03:05 AM
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My 93 and 83SE are still going strong. I expect that, along with my 203, they will last longer than I will.

Oppo 203>Marantz 7704>JVC RS520
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post #174 of 3337 Old 04-03-2018, 03:16 AM
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They charged far too much and now they have paid the price, no doubt sales have been bad.
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post #175 of 3337 Old 04-03-2018, 03:38 AM
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It is a shame the only UHD player that can be multi-region/multi-zone modded for DVD/BD will leave the market.

I never pulled the trigger as the Panasonic DMP-UB400 produced the same image for a third of the price.

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post #176 of 3337 Old 04-03-2018, 03:49 AM
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This are sad news... but i wait for a good deal now since the price was out of my reach...
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post #177 of 3337 Old 04-03-2018, 03:50 AM
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Originally Posted by bigguyca View Post
Reasons for failure:

An inability to develop quality software. (firmware) Each new model required 3 months or more to becomes stable. It appears OPPO was a hardware company not a software company. The ability to develop quality software is a requirement in today's world.

A lack of applications such as Netflix on 20X series. As is noted above, cheap devices have this support and yet OPPO was unable to provide it in the 20X series. This eliminated the OPPO units from consideration by many potential purchasers of the product.

Dumb designs: The Sonica DAC had A-to-D conversion on the home theater pass-thru; an amazingly stupid design. The Sonica DAC also offered only choice one choice in output filter and it wasn't linear phase. ESS provides lots of filter options so it would have been trivial to offer a choice.

Lack of a balanced receiver stage after the DAC to remove common mode distortion produced by the ESS DAC. OK.... so not many people realize this since no publication measures it.

Adoption of any form of MQA demonstrated real panic and bad decision making.


If you are within the return window, return the product. Faith is great, but not in electronics purchases.
Oppo had many issues with the development of the 4k duo.. it was a big deal for a relatively small company...
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post #178 of 3337 Old 04-03-2018, 03:54 AM
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They charged far too much and now they have paid the price, no doubt sales have been bad.
How would charging less have made them more money? This was inevitably going to happen because the market for discs is shrinking, not because the players cost too much.
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post #179 of 3337 Old 04-03-2018, 04:03 AM
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How would charging less have made them more money? This was inevitably going to happen because the market for discs is shrinking, not because the players cost too much.
Because they would have sold more. The 203 was 400 more than what I paid for the x800. 400 is a lot of money and again the Sony did more because it streams. The 205 was just completely outrageous. I mean would people please admit just that?

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post #180 of 3337 Old 04-03-2018, 04:05 AM
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What a bummer, I still use a BDP-95 for DLNA audio streaming and was looking into the newer models for an upgrade in DAC and user interface. Sucks that a company that made good products and had great customer support is closing shop.
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