Oppo to stop production? This is not a joke. - Page 7 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #181 of 3315 Old 04-03-2018, 04:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Hetfieldjames View Post
Because they would have sold more. The 203 was 400 more than what I paid for the x800. 400 is a lot of money and again the Sony did more because it streams. The 205 was just completely outrageous. I mean would people please admit just that?

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That's no guarantee, and even if they did unless you are familiar with the company's margins then you don't know if selling for less would have been profitable or not. There are numerous anecdotes about how premium items actually will not sell if the price is set too low.

Given that a few feet of so-called high-end speaker cables and power cords can cost 100 times as much as an Oppo 203, I have to wonder if being priced too high really was the issue. I mean, at the end of the day it's nothing more than the fact the machines the company built play a format that is on the decline.

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post #182 of 3315 Old 04-03-2018, 04:09 AM
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I think they did not have wide enough distribution, on top of whatever other reasons for this.

I looked around to buy their product but in Italy there was no way, save for accepting to spend twice as much as the US.
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post #183 of 3315 Old 04-03-2018, 04:10 AM
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April Fools was yesterday...

Really ?

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post #184 of 3315 Old 04-03-2018, 04:13 AM
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Stupid question.... Where does one find Oppo players in Canada? It seems like I have to import them and that's always a PITA...

Amazon.ca has them.
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post #185 of 3315 Old 04-03-2018, 04:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Dave Vaughn View Post
Sad, but it goes to show that the American public just wants cheap throwaway crap versus quality built products. I feel for the people I've dealt with at Oppo because they have always been awesome to do business with. They will be missed.
Uh, you do realize Oppo was a Chinese company, right? I'd rather give my money to the South Koreans (LG) or Japanese (Panasonic).

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post #186 of 3315 Old 04-03-2018, 04:16 AM
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I get the worries about updates, but having owned Sony BD players in the past I would say even after they stop making hardware, odds are much higher of seeing updates from Oppo than from Sony.
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post #187 of 3315 Old 04-03-2018, 04:16 AM
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SO sad to hear. My 103 was flawless for 4 years, and and I got a good price on eBay for it. I've had the 203 since it released, also with no problems. I really hope they're able to keep the tech side up with a skeleton crew, but not confident.
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post #188 of 3315 Old 04-03-2018, 04:18 AM
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At the end of his article Scott Wilkinson says "But the convenience of streaming could well overcome the quality of discs in the mass market, leaving enthusiasts like us without a choice."

Seems to me that the premise ignores the reality that streaming keeps getting better as data rates go up while discs are stuck with the same storage limitations. There's no technical reason why streaming can't beat disc-based content, today and every day, aside from the bandwidth needed.

Long story short is technically it's discs that are limited in terms of quality (and length), not streaming.
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post #189 of 3315 Old 04-03-2018, 04:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Vaughn View Post
Sad, but it goes to show that the American public just wants cheap throwaway crap versus quality built products. I feel for the people I've dealt with at Oppo because they have always been awesome to do business with. They will be missed.
You're wrong. Even if I personnaly hate Apple, their products are high quality and the American public buys them.

People didn't buy Oppo because they probably have never heard of them. Everytime I tell someone I own a Oppo BD player, they look at me with a puzzled expression.

Oppo never really invested much in marketing or strategic partnerships. Also, I think they needed a mid-range product to put them on the map and maybe do a balancing act to get the high-end stuff a bit more accessible.
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post #190 of 3315 Old 04-03-2018, 04:19 AM
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Originally Posted by jocedeg View Post
You're wrong. Even if I personnaly hate Apple, their products are high quality and the American public buys them.

People didn't buy Oppo because they probably have never heard of them. Everytime I tell someone I own a Oppo BD player, they look at me with a puzzled expression.

Oppo never really invested much in marketing or strategic partnerships. Also, I think they needed a mid-range product to put them on the map and maybe do a balancing act to get the high-end stuff a bit more accessible.
Sure seems like when the Apple TV 4K came out and I picked one up, that's the moment my Oppo 203 started collecting dust. The remote is horrible but it delivers a great movie experience in UHD.
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post #191 of 3315 Old 04-03-2018, 04:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Hetfieldjames View Post
Because they would have sold more. The 203 was 400 more than what I paid for the x800. 400 is a lot of money and again the Sony did more because it streams. The 205 was just completely outrageous. I mean would people please admit just that?
No, because I didn’t buy an Oppo to stream anything.

To replace the 205 I would need to buy a 4K UHD player, a new surround processor and a CD/SACD/DSD transport and DAC, or in other words spend around $12,000 to replace one $1300 box. I remember getting my original BDP-93 because it allowed me to consolidate what were at the time three separate boxes.

I’ve said it before and I will again - I do not want to stream anything. I buy physical media because quality always suffers on any streamed content.
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post #192 of 3315 Old 04-03-2018, 04:29 AM
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Originally Posted by kucharsk View Post
No, because I didn’t buy an Oppo to stream anything.

To replace the 205 I would need to buy a 4K UHD player, a new surround processor and a CD/SACD/DSD transport and DAC, or in other words spend around $12,000 to replace one $1300 box. I remember getting my original BDP-93 because it allowed me to consolidate what were at the time three separate boxes.

I’ve said it before and I will again - I do not want to stream anything. I buy physical media because quality always suffers on any streamed content.
So your bucking the trend of streaming. Good luck with that in the future.

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post #193 of 3315 Old 04-03-2018, 04:31 AM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
Sure seems like when the Apple TV 4K came out and I picked one up, that's the moment my Oppo 203 started collecting dust. The remote is horrible but it delivers an great movie experience in UHD.
Define “great.”

Every Apple 4K title looks noticeably worse than the same title off a 4K disc, in large part because it’s about half the bitrate.

Apple and Amazon 4K are the MP3s of the 4K video world by comparison but I shouldn’t be surprised; people have long discarded quality for convenience and the trend unfortunately will not reverse itself.
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post #194 of 3315 Old 04-03-2018, 04:31 AM
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Originally Posted by jocedeg View Post
You're wrong. Even if I personnaly hate Apple, their products are high quality and the American public buys them.

People didn't buy Oppo because they probably have never heard of them. Everytime I tell someone I own a Oppo BD player, they look at me with a puzzled expression.

Oppo never really invested much in marketing or strategic partnerships. Also, I think they needed a mid-range product to put them on the map and maybe do a balancing act to get the high-end stuff a bit more accessible.
Of course, everyone thinks it's the players that failed to sell. But what if it was attempting to get into the headphone business or the wireless lifestyle speaker business that wound up costing the company?

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post #195 of 3315 Old 04-03-2018, 04:34 AM
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Originally Posted by kucharsk View Post
Define “great.”

Every Apple 4K title looks noticeably worse than the same title off a 4K disc, in large part because it’s about half the bitrate.

Apple and Amazon 4K are the MP3s of the 4K video world by comparison but I shouldn’t be surprised; people have long discarded quality for convenience and the trend unfortunately will not reverse itself.
Has anyone in this thread watched "Daredevil" 4k HDR on Netflix? Anyone? It's simply stunning. This idea that streaming 4k is a terrible experience is actually funny. The physical disc is better but it's not a terrible unenjoyable experience to stream 4k HDR.

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Not to incite a riot here, as I was both an Apple and Oppo fan 10 years ago, but I'm willing to bet that the majority of today's Oppo users are also Apple fans, which is the only rationale for why Oppos were still selling the past couple of years. People love to pay a 2-3x premium for hefty, shiny, metallic enclosed items that don't perform better than the competition, but are looked at as status symbols. However, nobody outside of AVS has heard of Oppo, so not many folks were going to buy the players. If they only had a mid-range product or reduced their prices to reflect the value that someone was getting TODAY from buying their players.
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post #197 of 3315 Old 04-03-2018, 04:36 AM
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Uh, you do realize Oppo was a Chinese company, right? I'd rather give my money to the South Koreans (LG) or Japanese (Panasonic).
Oppo Digital as a Oppo subsidiary were head quartered in the US. Oppo Digital products were designed and developed in the US and built in China, just like LG and Panasonic products are mainly built in China.

Also i still struggle with the price line that people push. The Panasonic UB9000 will be a $1000+ from a Japanese major and from the spec sheet looks like a lesser player than the 205. There is nothing currently on the market that competes with the 205 for the price. The 203 is more expensive than immediate rivals mainly due to continued product churn that the majors have and discounting of older products but again the 203 offers many features over most of the competition particularly in the audio realm. Perhaps Oppo could have competed directly with the likes of LG and Samsung by issuing a stripped back player without analogue outputs and quality DAC but what would be the point.

The unfortunate reality is the market for enthusiast players has now shrunk to such a point that it would seem not to be viable. Even large brands like Denon and Pioneer have shown no interest in disc players which 5 years ago were key parts of their product portfolio. Widescreen review is suggesting that an increase in component costs is one of the key reasons which would push costs higher. One can only hope that the concept of high end universal players does not die along with Oppo.

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post #198 of 3315 Old 04-03-2018, 04:38 AM
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Originally Posted by kucharsk View Post
Define “great.”

Every Apple 4K title looks noticeably worse than the same title off a 4K disc, in large part because it’s about half the bitrate.

Apple and Amazon 4K are the MP3s of the 4K video world by comparison but I shouldn’t be surprised; people have long discarded quality for convenience and the trend unfortunately will not reverse itself.
Great = Not distracting so that I can enjoy watching the movie when played on a 120-inch Stewart StudioTek projecting with a Sony 365ES.

Back when I compared to disc versus streaming, I found it incredibly difficult to make an objective comparison of a specific frame, which was necessary to make a proper comparison. Now, with the current state of things and copy protection it's not even possible to do 4K comparisons.

Anyhow, you are 100% correct that I like getting earlier access to movies and the zero hassle nature of a digital movie collection.

So anyhow, great is a loosely defined term and one I chose because it implies sufficiency. I'm not going to be fool enough to argue that it's not beaten by higher bitrate disc-based content. I will argue that at some point it won't matter anymore, not because people don't care but because people won't be able to see the difference anyhow. And maybe we're not quite there yet, but it's inevitable that streaming will eventually pass the current disc-based quality standard and the real question is whether they'll be another disc-based format to follow up 4K UHD Blu-ray, or if this is the end of the line.
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post #199 of 3315 Old 04-03-2018, 04:39 AM
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Long story short is technically it's discs that are limited in terms of quality (and length), not streaming.
True but I think you can count on one hand the number of current UHD titles that are anywhere near the limiting 100GB for just the movie itself. Once you have extracted the video and the audio track nearly every single UHD release is 55GB or less.

Netflix 4k streams use about 15GB per movie so not even half a BluRay worth of data. I don't have VUDU so no idea if they offer a higher bitrate option.
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post #200 of 3315 Old 04-03-2018, 04:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Hetfieldjames View Post
Has anyone in this thread watched "Daredevil" 4k HDR on Netflix? Anyone? It's simply stunning. This idea that streaming 4k is a terrible experience is actually funny. The physical disc is better but it's not a terrible unenjoyable experience to stream 4k HDR.
Yes, it may be enjoyable, but there were many who enjoyed seeing Dunkirk last summer in digital; if you had the opportunity to see it in 70mm, especially 15/70 IMAX, it was then and only then that you realized what a fuzzy, blurry presentation digital cinema was by comparison.

Likewise 4K streaming doesn’t look bad… until you see what a 4K UHD disc looks like.

Ever try and watch a VHS tape today? Yet we loved them and thought they looked great in 1985.
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
At the end of his article Scott Wilkinson says "But the convenience of streaming could well overcome the quality of discs in the mass market, leaving enthusiasts like us without a choice."

Seems to me that the premise ignores the reality that streaming keeps getting better as data rates go up while discs are stuck with the same storage limitations. There's no technical reason why streaming can't beat disc-based content, today and every day, aside from the bandwidth needed.

Long story short is technically it's discs that are limited in terms of quality (and length), not streaming.
That may be true. My neighborhood is currently getting google fiber put in and the promise of 1gb streaming.
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True but I think you can count on one hand the number of current UHD titles that are anywhere near the limiting 100GB for just the movie itself. Once you have extracted the video and the audio track nearly every single UHD release is 55GB or less.

Netflix 4k streams use about 15GB per movie so not even half a BluRay worth of data. I don't have VUDU so no idea if they offer a higher bitrate option.
Netflix I have been saying for years it's about 99% of Blu Ray picture quality. Sound is limited to Dolby Digital plus but still sound awesome.

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post #203 of 3315 Old 04-03-2018, 04:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Hetfieldjames View Post
Has anyone in this thread watched "Daredevil" 4k HDR on Netflix? Anyone? It's simply stunning. This idea that streaming 4k is a terrible experience is actually funny. The physical disc is better but it's not a terrible unenjoyable experience to stream 4k HDR.

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That's exactly what it comes down to, streaming 4K HDR provides unprecedented fidelity when factoring in the convenience. For many people, based simply on the quality of their display and their seating distance, there won't be any difference between disc and steaming to see to begin with.

And of course, there's the other fact you bring up, which is that too few embrace streaming at the best quality you can achieve then there is straight up more content available to you than if you limit yourself to discs..
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post #204 of 3315 Old 04-03-2018, 04:43 AM
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Netflix I have been saying for years it's about 99% of Blu Ray picture quality. Sound is limited to Dolby Digital plus but still sound awesome.

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Sorry that is wrong. Vudu is 99% of Blu Ray picture quality.

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post #205 of 3315 Old 04-03-2018, 04:46 AM
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You're wrong. Even if I personnaly hate Apple, their products are high quality and the American public buys them.

People didn't buy Oppo because they probably have never heard of them. Everytime I tell someone I own a Oppo BD player, they look at me with a puzzled expression.

Oppo never really invested much in marketing or strategic partnerships. Also, I think they needed a mid-range product to put them on the map and maybe do a balancing act to get the high-end stuff a bit more accessible.
They did that once with the BDP-80. I don't know why they didn't continue that. I've always felt like the player was an attempt to put 10 lbs in a 5 lb bag. At least with the 203/5 they left out streaming. They could have dropped analog 7.1 in the 203 in favor of a stereo analog out, almost everyone uses hdmi or buys the 205.
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I thought this site was for enthusiasts; 99% quality should be completely unacceptable but as I said people clearly don’t care about quality as long as they don’t have to get off the couch.
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  1. I like how Americans are at fault, it was worldwide.
  2. As far as Samsung and Sony stopping support for players after 6 months, don't be a drama queen.
  3. For the "I only watch discs crowd", do you realize some outstanding content can only be had by streaming? If you consider yourself so special, maybe you should say I watch each program in the best format available. That is what I do. If you don't watch it just because it is streaming (Netflix originals for example), you are a fool.

Not sure why everyone acts like you have to chose discs or streaming, I chose both. There are a LOT of 203 owners with an ATV or Roku.
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post #208 of 3315 Old 04-03-2018, 04:47 AM
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Yes, it may be enjoyable, but there were many who enjoyed seeing Dunkirk last summer in digital; if you had the opportunity to see it in 70mm, especially 15/70 IMAX, it was then and only then that you realized what a fuzzy, blurry presentation digital cinema was by comparison.

Likewise 4K streaming doesn’t look bad… until you see what a 4K UHD disc looks like.

Ever try and watch a VHS tape today? Yet we loved them and thought they looked great in 1985.
Actually back in 1985 I thought VHS tapes looked extremely awful and made every effort to go see movies in movie theaters.

When I saw Dunkirk on film in IMAX, I thought it was sharp, of course. But I prefer how it looks in 4K in my calibrated home theater, aside from the fact that it has to be cropped and you lose the immersion of the IMAX experience as a consequence, which is noticeable in the aerial combat scenes.
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post #209 of 3315 Old 04-03-2018, 04:48 AM
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That's exactly what it comes down to, streaming 4K HDR provides unprecedented fidelity when factoring in the convenience. For many people, based simply on the quality of their display and their seating distance, there won't be any difference between disc and steaming to see to begin with.

And of course, there's the other fact you bring up, which is that too few embrace streaming at the best quality you can achieve then there is straight up more content available to you than if you limit yourself to discs..
People are fighting the technology. I never thought I'd hear that here of all places. Streaming is content to no end. Once you pop in a disc you better be committed to watching it. You can't just back out of it and choose something else.

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post #210 of 3315 Old 04-03-2018, 04:50 AM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
When I saw Dunkirk on film in IMAX, I thought it was sharp, of course. But I prefer how it looks in 4K in my calibrated home theater, aside from the fact that it has to be cropped and you lose the immersion of the IMAX experience as a consequence, which is noticeable in the aerial combat scenes.
That’s interesting given at best 4K has half the resolution of 15/70.

I suspect that the small projection size of home theater simply doesn’t reveal the difference the way a true IMAX screen does.
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