Oppo to stop production? This is not a joke. - Page 8 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #211 of 3353 Old 04-03-2018, 05:50 AM
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Originally Posted by kucharsk View Post
I thought this site was for enthusiasts; 99% quality should be completely unacceptable but as I said people clearly don’t care about quality as long as they don’t have to get off the couch.
Enthusiast does not mean OCD perfectionist. If a movie looks so good that after streaming in 4k I feel like maybe I missed a pixel or two, I still have the option of buying the disc and watching it again a few weeks later when the UHD Blu-ray is finally released. It's happened a few times.

Also, I don't have to get up off the couch to order something from Amazon. It's not a question of effort, it's a question of availability. Digital releases come out weeks earlier.

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post #212 of 3353 Old 04-03-2018, 05:52 AM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
Enthusiast does not mean OCD perfectionist. If a movie looks so good that after streaming in 4k I feel like maybe I missed a pixel or two, I still have the option of buying the disc and watching it again a few weeks later when the disc is finally released.
But isn’t that like saying you’d be happy to go to a local theater that shows movies slightly out of focus and hasn’t replaced projector bulbs in years and whose subwoofers broke in 2016 because you know you have the option to go to a good theater to see it again if you like it?
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post #213 of 3353 Old 04-03-2018, 05:53 AM
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Originally Posted by kucharsk View Post
That’s interesting given at best 4K has half the resolution of 15/70.

I suspect that the small projection size of home theater simply doesn’t reveal the difference the way a true IMAX screen does.
Resolution isn't everything, screen uniformity counts for something, as does contrast ratio, peak luminance/HDR etc.

Also projected film is a copy that experiences some degree of analog loss, whereas a digital version is a scan of the original. It's also very unlikely that you'll get absolute perfect focus when projecting film IMAX. Again, looks great but there is some loss and so it's arguable whether or what actually wines up on screen in a film IMAX auditorium actually has more detail than what 4K can represent on a top of the line consumer display.

The most likely explanation for my visual preference is that the contrast ratio in a home theater is considerably higher than what you'll find in most commercial theaters, except for Dolby Cinema and Samsung LED Cinema Screen.
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post #214 of 3353 Old 04-03-2018, 05:53 AM
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People are fighting the technology. I never thought I'd hear that here of all places. Streaming is content to no end. Once you pop in a disc you better be committed to watching it. You can't just back out of it and choose something else.

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LOL. You are reaching now. Some actually do care about quality over quantity. I stream tv shows all week, matter of fact every tv show we watch is streamed now. Why? Not because of ease, because the PQ of Amazon 1080p tv shows are better than Directv, and I already have Prime. Plus I use Amazon channels like HBO and CBS, which also look better.

What did I do this weekend when I wanted to watch Harry Potter 3? I threw in my nice shiny UHD/HDR disc... Once again, stop making it like it has to be just one. If you give a damn about quality, you want both, they serve different roles.

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Originally Posted by Hetfieldjames View Post
Because they would have sold more. The 203 was 400 more than what I paid for the x800. 400 is a lot of money and again the Sony did more because it streams. The 205 was just completely outrageous. I mean would people please admit just that?

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I paid 999 usd for my Sony ES series 1080p blu ray player S1000ES when it launched many years ago, ES series was their flagship and the player did not support sacd's and was just for 1080p BD playback, not 4k. I dont think oppo was outgrageous with the prices, they were just more than competitors with 4k players, however the 203 and 205 do put out a superior 4k picture than most other lower priced 4k players available currently, only the panasonic ubp 900 matches it.
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post #216 of 3353 Old 04-03-2018, 05:57 AM
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I also prefer physical media because if the company goes away your investment doesn’t.

It may seem ridiculous to think of that happening but in 1990 people would have said the same about Blockbuster or Sears.
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post #217 of 3353 Old 04-03-2018, 05:59 AM
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Originally Posted by rene2kx View Post
I paid 999 usd for my Sony ES series 1080p blu ray player S1000ES when it launched many years ago, ES series was their flagship and the player did not support sacd's and was just for 1080p BD playback, not 4k. I dont think oppo was outgrageous with the prices, they were just more than competitors with 4k players, however the 203 and 205 do put out a superior 4k picture than most other lower priced 4k players available currently, only the panasonic ubp 900 matches it.
Plus once again it would be hard to find just an ESS Sabre ES9038PRO-equipped stereo DAC for the price of the 205.
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post #218 of 3353 Old 04-03-2018, 06:04 AM
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Originally Posted by rene2kx View Post
I paid 999 usd for my Sony ES series 1080p blu ray player S1000ES when it launched many years ago, ES series was their flagship and the player did not support sacd's and was just for 1080p BD playback, not 4k. I dont think oppo was outgrageous with the prices, they were just more than competitors with 4k players, however the 203 and 205 do put out a superior 4k picture than most other lower priced 4k players available currently, only the panasonic ubp 900 matches it.
4k is 4k. There is no difference. It either works or it doesn't. Oh my God.

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post #219 of 3353 Old 04-03-2018, 06:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Hetfieldjames View Post
4k is 4k. There is no difference. It either works or it doesn't. Oh my God.

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LOL, you might wanna stop while you are not ahead.
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post #220 of 3353 Old 04-03-2018, 06:14 AM
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what happened to OPPO has happened to many small high end OEM's: Kaleidescape and Classe Audio come to mind...there are many more, and more to come

one common thread that helped contribute to their demise is the HDMI/HDCP fiasco they call the single connector solution: only the big companies with hundreds of software engineers can successfully make their way through the quagmire of copy protection.

really a sad day: OPPO set the standard for many of us at AVS: they worked with AVS beta testers: they listened to our comments and it helped to make a better product

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post #221 of 3353 Old 04-03-2018, 06:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Hetfieldjames View Post
4k is 4k. There is no difference. It either works or it doesn't. Oh my God.
But... but... but... the Oppo has XLR stereo output and 7.1 analog, along with a metal chassis so the video MUST be a lot better than the LG or Panny!
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post #222 of 3353 Old 04-03-2018, 06:17 AM
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Ugh! I finally jump on the Oppo train and now this!?!

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post #223 of 3353 Old 04-03-2018, 06:18 AM
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Oppo to stop production? This is not a joke.

I love my oppo but the reality is my 103 rarely is turned on my movies are watched via my server on my first my Shield then my Apple TV 4k, I didn’t jump on the 203 until there was a simple solution to do the same with uhd. So my blu ray player sat idle while I watched movies regularly by other means. Streaming and archiving my personal uhd titles are my future.
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post #224 of 3353 Old 04-03-2018, 06:22 AM
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Originally Posted by theaterofpain View Post
But... but... but... the Oppo has XLR stereo output and 7.1 analog, along with a metal chassis so the video MUST be a lot better than the LG or Panny!
People can make fun, but I've never seen another Blu-ray player that offers kind of flexible video options of the UDP-203. I mean sure, if you just want to play back a disk you probably don't need any of that but video geeks like having control and Oppo offered that control.
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post #225 of 3353 Old 04-03-2018, 06:24 AM
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Originally Posted by markrubin View Post
what happened to OPPO has happened to many small high end OEM's: Kaleidescape and Classe Audio come to mind...there are many more, and more to come

one common thread that helped contribute to their demise is the HDMI/HDCP fiasco they call the single connector solution: only the big companies with hundreds of software engineers can successfully make their way through the quagmire of copy protection.

really a sad day: OPPO set the standard for many of us at AVS: they worked with AVS beta testers: they listened to our comments and and it helped to make a better product
But interestingly, both Kaleidescape and Classe were resurrected. Will someone buy Oppo's assets? I'm sure folks would not mind a Panny-flavored UDP-203. I'm just dreaming. The Kuro of players, that's this.

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post #226 of 3353 Old 04-03-2018, 06:28 AM
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Well $h!t, those guys run a good ship. Great quality and customer service. No mention of a purchase of their IP/manufacturing to carry on...another name???
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post #227 of 3353 Old 04-03-2018, 06:30 AM
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At the end of his article Scott Wilkinson says "But the convenience of streaming could well overcome the quality of discs in the mass market, leaving enthusiasts like us without a choice."

Seems to me that the premise ignores the reality that streaming keeps getting better as data rates go up while discs are stuck with the same storage limitations. There's no technical reason why streaming can't beat disc-based content, today and every day, aside from the bandwidth needed.

Long story short is technically it's discs that are limited in terms of quality (and length), not streaming.
This is the REAL truth going forward....streaming IS on the upward trajectory. I love my Phillips 7501 UHD player (and my OPPO 103 for BR/ CD transport to my Oppo Sonica DAC).
But it is SO NICE to just flip on DIRECTV for some stellar UHD TV broadcasting; ROKU/FIRE TV for UHD streaming, etc

Now when Netflix, Prime (and just not Vudu) implement ATMOS (DIRECTV already has that ability) for ALL devices- then, streaming will be the future.....I believe OPPO saw the handwriting....

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post #228 of 3353 Old 04-03-2018, 06:31 AM
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Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post
  1. I like how Americans are at fault, it was worldwide.
  2. As far as Samsung and Sony stopping support for players after 6 months, don't be a drama queen.
  3. For the "I only watch discs crowd", do you realize some outstanding content can only be had by streaming? If you consider yourself so special, maybe you should say I watch each program in the best format available. That is what I do. If you don't watch it just because it is streaming (Netflix originals for example), you are a fool.

Not sure why everyone acts like you have to chose discs or streaming, I chose both. There are a LOT of 203 owners with an ATV or Roku.
In deed, my Roku is plugged into the back of my 103D. When my 203 arrives in the mail, my Roku will get moved to that. Best of both worlds. In fact, my receiver went out an few months ago so now I use the pre-outs on my BD player to my amp. Not even sure I need to purchase another receiver now. Between the Roku and Physical media, I am set.
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post #229 of 3353 Old 04-03-2018, 06:33 AM
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Resolution isn't everything, screen uniformity counts for something, as does contrast ratio, peak luminance/HDR etc.

Also projected film is a copy that experiences some degree of analog loss, whereas a digital version is a scan of the original. It's also very unlikely that you'll get absolute perfect focus when projecting film IMAX. Again, looks great but there is some loss and so it's arguable whether or what actually wines up on screen in a film IMAX auditorium actually has more detail than what 4K can represent on a top of the line consumer display.
That's like saying its arguable whether the best-reviewed displays and projectors on AVS Forum actually look good because some purchasers don't bother to have them calibrated and just run them at their stock settings.

IMAX actually has a rather strict QC program should you find a theater is not up to snuff. Sure it can happen, but a user can max out the "color" and "contrast" controls on their TV, too.

We're going for what are more or less great if not the best possible experience here, and I can tell you 15/70 IMAX has always looked better than any consumer display ever has in every presentation I've seen.
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post #230 of 3353 Old 04-03-2018, 06:33 AM
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Any possibility of Oppo releasing the firmware source code into the open source market and allow developers to continue their good work?
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This is very sad news for me today, bought every Oppo Blu-ray players since the BDP-83. Bad news for video/audiophiles in general because the industry only supports the mass market, streaming, watching movies on a 5 inch phone and things like this. Even on a high end TV set playing a streamed UHD movie compared to a physical UHD disk is a HUGE difference - but sadly only if you have quality equipment. Oppo's announcement today is a sad day for all audio and videophiles and especially home theater enthusiasts.

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post #232 of 3353 Old 04-03-2018, 06:35 AM
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Now when Netflix, Prime (and just not Vudu) implement ATMOS (DIRECTV already has that ability) for ALL devices- then, streaming will be the future.....I believe OPPO saw the handwriting....
I'll never get the Atmos enthusiasm. Ah well.
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post #233 of 3353 Old 04-03-2018, 06:38 AM
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I'm also sorry to hear this. I've bought their players since the BDP-83 and have also been happy with their PM-1 headphones. Everything had been very solidly built, and I'll continue to use their UPD-205 until it breaks down.

On streaming vs. disc: the discs' higher bitrates do seem to me to yield visible improvements over streaming direct to my TV. I also have access to up to near-gigabit streaming rates, if I do need them. But I am becoming more concerned that it will take a long time, if ever, for enough people to have access to 100 Mbps+ internet connections and to want to have streaming at greater bitrates for near-disc quality streaming to appear.
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post #234 of 3353 Old 04-03-2018, 06:38 AM
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Originally Posted by kucharsk View Post
That's like saying its arguable whether the best-reviewed displays and projectors on AVS Forum actually look good because some purchasers don't bother to have them calibrated and just run them at their stock settings.

IMAX actually has a rather strict QC program should you find a theater is not up to snuff. Sure it can happen, but a user can max out the "color" and "contrast" controls on their TV, too.

We're going for what are more or less great if not the best possible experience here, and I can tell you 15/70 IMAX has always looked better than any consumer display ever has in every presentation I've seen.
No, it's not. It's just the reality of dealing with film and big glass lenses and the fact IMAX does not have an on-site technician inspecting the rig before every screening and EVEN IF IT DID the chances of the focus being as perfect as a film scan are basically zero.

Once you add HDR to the mix, it's hard for film-based projection to keep up. You can't get super deep blacks with film, it's a serious limitation of the medium. But, each person has their priorities in terms of the which elements of the AV experience really does the trick for them.

Anyhow, it's good to debate someone who's seen the film in both contexts. I've enjoyed IMAX since I first experienced it at the national Air & Space museum back in the early 1980s, so I am a fan.
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post #235 of 3353 Old 04-03-2018, 06:38 AM
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What a bummer, I still use a BDP-95 for DLNA audio streaming and was looking into the newer models for an upgrade in DAC and user interface. Sucks that a company that made good products and had great customer support is closing shop.
I bought a new Anthem receiver that does not stream iTunes and was about to buy a 203 so I could use the app to stream iTunes or use Roon. Is there another 4K blu-ray player that has this ability?

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post #236 of 3353 Old 04-03-2018, 06:40 AM
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Welcome to to the modern world. Lots of folks do not even use a physical player any more. And most of those who do use the drive in their computer...or the Playstation/Xbox drive. So there is little left for companies like Oppo.
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post #237 of 3353 Old 04-03-2018, 06:40 AM
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Also I still struggle with the price line that people push. The Panasonic UB9000 will be a $1000+ from a Japanese major and from the spec sheet looks like a lesser player than the 205. There is nothing currently on the market that competes with the 205 for the price. The 203 is more expensive than immediate rivals mainly due to continued product churn that the majors have and discounting of older products, but again the 203 offers many features over most of the competition particularly in the audio realm.
This might be of interest.

Found this link to the specs for Panasonic's upcoming DP-UB820EB, which is one step below the DP-UB9000 (and it does Dolby Vision™). Seems to be much like the UDP-203 in scope. Will be curious to see what it prices out at.
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post #238 of 3353 Old 04-03-2018, 06:45 AM
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I've never had the need for a real fysical disc player. From what i read here the consensus is that you either play fysical disks OR you go for low quality streaming services... but there is a third option Blurays or uhd's are copied/ripped 1:1 to the NAS here and played over a network share using a mediaplayer (e.g. Dune 4K or ATV/w Infuse). I understand the video and audio quality might be fractional better using an Oppo player. Just get a NAS and a normal, dedicated media player and you're good to go. Oppo leaving the market is not the end of the world. I couldn't care less
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post #239 of 3353 Old 04-03-2018, 06:48 AM
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I'm also sorry to hear this. I've bought their players since the BDP-83 and have also been happy with their PM-1 headphones. Everything had been very solidly built, and I'll continue to use their UPD-205 until it breaks down.

On streaming vs. disc: the discs' higher bitrates do seem to me to yield visible improvements over streaming direct to my TV. I also have access to up to near-gigabit streaming rates, if I do need them. But I am becoming more concerned that it will take a long time, if ever, for enough people to have access to 100 Mbps+ internet connections and to want to have streaming at greater bitrates for near-disc quality streaming to appear.
Yes - and don't forget about the sound, Dolby TrueHD/DTS Master vs. Streaming Audio today - a difference as deep as the Grand Canyon! The difference in dynamic no one beliefs until you hear it!!! Unfortunately way too many people don't care in the world anymore.
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post #240 of 3353 Old 04-03-2018, 06:48 AM
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Originally Posted by rene2kx View Post
It is not true that that PQ with high end 4k blu ray player vs a budget player would be the same when playing a 4k blu ray disc. stack up an oppo 203 or panasonic ubp 900 next to a sony x700 player and you'll see those players put out a higher quality picture than the sony x700. when you pay for a premium blu ray player, you are paying for superior video processing and picture enhancement technologies that make the 4k blu ray disc look even better.

this below post is not true. Looks like this gentleman has never put his budget samsung 8500 player next to the mentioned oppo or panasonic players and checked out the video quality playing the same 4k blu ray movie.
Sorry but reviews basically say the same thing. What you're paying for is the extra "features" that most people dont care about. Like I mentioned - analog audio outs, support for dead CD formats(SACD & DVD Audio), chassis weight, etc. Sure, it is quite possible that the upscaling algorithms are better in the top players are better but anyone with a good TV wil let the TV scale it anyways so that also becomes a non-factor.

What "picture enhancement" stuff do you speak of? I dont want any picture enhancements...I just want whats on the disc to be sent to my TV and thats it.

The same 4K disc int going to look any different on my player or your Oppo. If you can point me to a legit, double blind test where viewer after viewer keeps picking the Oppo over the lower cost players in a shootout then Ill come here and concede. Otherwise, I think you guys are just hunting for verification/validation that your player looks better. Sure, maybe they are built better - I already said that. Maybe they physically look nicer. Maybe they have a cool user group following or whatever. But when the rubber hits the road, aka the disc gets played they dont do anything more than any other player. Unless someone can prove me wrong!

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