Oppo to stop production? This is not a joke. - Page 9 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #241 of 3355 Old 04-03-2018, 06:51 AM
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Originally Posted by RoadLizard View Post
Sorry but reviews basically say the same thing. What you're paying for is the extra "features" that most people dont care about. Like I mentioned - analog audio outs, support for dead CD formats(SACD & DVD Audio), chassis weight, etc. Sure, it is quite possible that the upscaling algorithms are better in the top players are better but anyone with a good TV wil let the TV scale it anyways so that also becomes a non-factor.

What "picture enhancement" stuff do you speak of? I dont want any picture enhancements...I just want whats on the disc to be sent to my TV and thats it.

The same 4K disc int going to look any different on my player or your Oppo. If you can point me to a legit, double blind test where viewer after viewer keeps picking the Oppo over the lower cost players in a shootout then Ill come here and concede. Otherwise, I think you guys are just hunting for verification/validation that your player looks better. Sure, maybe they are built better - I already said that. Maybe they physically look nicer. Maybe they have a cool user group following or whatever. But when the rubber hits the road, aka the disc gets played they dont do anything more than any other player. Unless someone can prove me wrong!
No test exists because there is no difference. You are right.

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post #242 of 3355 Old 04-03-2018, 06:55 AM
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Since disc based players are going extinct I wish someone would make a quality high end streaming device. I only use my BDP-95 to stream lossless/High Res audio through DLNA and finding a quality replacement for that has been a failure so far.

I would like an Oppo quality device that was a true universal streaming high end network player. Great audio DACS, Every streaming app on the market, High end video output etc.

As streaming becomes more viable in quality and as some of us have huge home digital libraries I'd like a high end device to stream my own digital library and stream from internet services in the best quality possible.

Wish Oppo would have taken that route, the Sonica DAC was kind of a mess and didn't really meet my needs when I researched it
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post #243 of 3355 Old 04-03-2018, 06:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Hetfieldjames View Post
Because they would have sold more. The 203 was 400 more than what I paid for the x800. 400 is a lot of money and again the Sony did more because it streams. The 205 was just completely outrageous. I mean would people please admit just that?

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No.
This is $5500.
https://www.mcintoshlabs.com/product...players/MVP901
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post #244 of 3355 Old 04-03-2018, 07:02 AM
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Originally Posted by theaterofpain View Post
Uh, you do realize Oppo was a Chinese company, right? I'd rather give my money to the South Koreans (LG) or Japanese (Panasonic).
Well, you better just get out of home theater and/or Audio.
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post #245 of 3355 Old 04-03-2018, 07:05 AM
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Well, a sad day, indeed. A quality company, IMHO. I have been a happy OPPO 103 user for a long time. It's been my "go to" player for all discs and .mkv files.

Back in the day when Bluray first came out as an improvement on DVD's - - there was a huge quality jump. And, you could really see the quality of the OPPO players against the competition. The solidness of the build, the look and feel compared to the competition.

Fast forward to 4K & HDR. Or shall I say "fake" 4K/HDR Bluray discs. After acquiring my Sony 900E 75" set, I picked up a Samsung K8500 player. Since I do not buy any Bluray movies, period, I decided to rent 4K/HDR Blurays from 3DBlurayrental.com. I was totally "underwhelmed" by the supposed 4K/HDR releases. Now, maybe it's my old Samsung player (which I promptly sold on Craigslist) but the quality was not better, perceptibly, than a regular Bluray disc as "upscaled" by my Sony 900E. A real disappointment. To me, Netflix streaming in 4K/HDR looks better than 4K/HDR discs on my Samsung K8500 player. I've been told, countless times, that this can't be true. Well, it is/was for me. And my old BenQ W1080 Short Throw projector with a 100" screen? Mothballed after seeing the stellar color and sharpness of 4K/HDR on my Sony 900E.

I still rent regular Bluray discs from Redbox (mostly for the Dolby Atmos soundtracks) and they look fabulous as upscaled by my TV via my OPPO 103.

Streaming wise, I love the $1.00 specials with Google Play Movies. And honestly, the content and PQ look excellent on my TV.

So, in summation, I think the OPPO decision also has to do with the cost of the new 4K/HDR Bluray and the number of "fake, faux 4K/HDR" discs that don't provide "the bang for the buck," or "the amount of juice for the squeeze." Streaming is here to stay and the convenience, price (if you take advantage of deals) and picture quality far exceeds the benefits and quality of a higher priced player like the OPPO's - - sans for AVS Forum afficionado's & Home Theater enthusiasts.

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post #246 of 3355 Old 04-03-2018, 07:08 AM
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Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post
  1. I like how Americans are at fault, it was worldwide.
  2. As far as Samsung and Sony stopping support for players after 6 months, don't be a drama queen.
  3. For the "I only watch discs crowd", do you realize some outstanding content can only be had by streaming? If you consider yourself so special, maybe you should say I watch each program in the best format available. That is what I do. If you don't watch it just because it is streaming (Netflix originals for example), you are a fool.

Not sure why everyone acts like you have to chose discs or streaming, I chose both. There are a LOT of 203 owners with an ATV or Roku.
Great points ... though I would only add that the Nvidia Shield TV offers the best streaming because of the video and audio .... Why the ATV4 doesn't offer Atmos or anything better than Dolby Digital is beyond me?

Apple really needs to step it up with their audio options on their premiere ATV device.

(I own the ATV4 and Nvidia Shield TV)
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post #247 of 3355 Old 04-03-2018, 07:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Operon View Post
Say it ain't so, Joe. Though not the saddest news imaginable but quite dispiriting nonetheless. My 203 is my 4th Oppo.

I'd love to see their numbers to see if there is could be the possibility of an investment angel swooping in and buying Oppo's assets with the goal of turning around the company. I wonder if they tried shopping themselves around to one of the high-end AV conglomerates, though that kinda news is difficult to contain for very long. Well, I guess we won't be hearing much of "... can't say that because of Oppo's NDA..." comments unless they're signed in blood into perpetuity. Does their NDA cover the event of an Oppo ownership transferal? Were any of the Beta Testers unaware of Oppo's dire situation? Also, I'd love their take on the whole scenario. I bet Mssrs McClain and Pariseau both got reams of comments and insights.

What a sad day indeed.
I can speak for myself without violating the NDA (which is still in force: beta testing continues, new firmware will appear).

  • I did not know this was coming.
  • I feel like someone shot my dog.
  • I suspect many of the causes people speculate about contributed.
  • Physical media declines, this is the "Twilight Time".
  • Yes, UHD is doing well, but so was 3D for a while.
  • Quality costs. Too much.
  • As far as the high cost: note that OPPO was priced direct-to-consumer. If sold through distributors the price would have doubled. (I'm surprised it was available through Amazon; they take a huge slice of the pie).
  • Among audiophiles OPPO is the low-cost "budget" alternative.
  • Lack of apps: I think it was because the vendors are a pain in the ass, reluctant to support a small company. They want eyeballs. Easier to do without.
  • I always thought OPPO would grow just so big and then be sold to one of the major brands who would then slap the label on their own products.
  • Guessing why this didn't happen: years ago a friend had an indie bookstore. He closed it rather than sell it, because all over the country bookstores were closing and no one was buying them. People don't go to indie bookstores and there was no future in it. He and his wife were working hard but not building up any equity.
  • A company can be profitable but just not worth the effort if the margins are too thin. Raise prices? You see the pushback here in this thread.
  • I'm not going anywhere. Still beta testing and I have new material for the FAQ.


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post #248 of 3355 Old 04-03-2018, 07:12 AM
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I had an Oppo BDP-83 years ago that was a good player but I was constantly finding new blu-rays that would not play on it. A firmware release or two later and the blu-ray would work. My PS3 always played the disks with no problem. I finally sold the Oppo and used my PS3 as my primary blu-ray player.

I have an Apple TV 4K and stream most everything but I still prefer physical discs when I sit down to watch a movie. I recently researched purchasing a DolbyVision player. I bought a Philips BDP7302 mainly because of my previous experience with Oppo's disc incompatibilities. (Saving $500 didn't hurt either.) Happy I did not buy the Oppo.

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post #249 of 3355 Old 04-03-2018, 07:14 AM
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Originally Posted by RoadLizard View Post
Sorry but reviews basically say the same thing. What you're paying for is the extra "features" that most people dont care about. Like I mentioned - analog audio outs, support for dead CD formats(SACD & DVD Audio), chassis weight, etc. Sure, it is quite possible that the upscaling algorithms are better in the top players are better but anyone with a good TV wil let the TV scale it anyways so that also becomes a non-factor.
SACD isn't dead, it's just very niche.
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post #250 of 3355 Old 04-03-2018, 07:14 AM
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YMMV on this, but I can point to Prada shoes and Baume et Mercier watches as examples of products that are about buying relative luxury, but have the same degree of basic functionality as cheaper ones. Or a Lexus vs. Toyota for that matter. It's all about finding a market that seeks luxury or at least wants to think they're buying a piece of it for the price.

Oppo might have done better not giving away their core equity - their world-class product support and frequent firmware updates - and offered a subscription model or at least tiers of support with different price levels. Even $150 or $200/year more per year, and maybe staying focused on direct to consumer and staying away from the likes of Magnolia/Best Buy might have keep their need to sell more units down and stayed more profitable on the players.
Expensive clothing etc are status symbols, expensive electronics - not so much, at least not in the volume that you need.

The only reason people buy Prada etc is to say "I am rich".

Luxury cars do offer more - Lexus has better interior, better sound insulation, etc, etc than Toyota but of course at a hefty premium.
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post #251 of 3355 Old 04-03-2018, 07:19 AM
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I was going to buy Oppo 203 - the only reason was that my receiver which I really like does not support HDR, so I was going to feed HDMI signal through Oppo, output audio to my receiver via HDMI out and then send video to my projector.

Now I think I will just put that money towards the new receiver which supports HDR passthrough.
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post #252 of 3355 Old 04-03-2018, 07:19 AM
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Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post
I can speak for myself without violating the NDA (which is still in force: beta testing continues, new firmware will appear).

[LIST]
[*]Yes, UHD is doing well, but so was 3D for a while.

-Bill
On that one specific point, there's no comparison actually. UHD has already succeeded in ways 3D could only dream of. It's not like Amazon and Netflix had numerous successful shows produced in 3D, or iTunes had just about every major movie release available in 3D. And, of course...one word: glasses. But UHD has no obstacles, just about every TV sold today supports it in some capacity, even it it's just the 4K resolution but usually you get a bit more especially from 55" on up you probably are getting HDR too.

Even HDR, specifically, is doing better than 3D ever did when it comes to the home audience.
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post #253 of 3355 Old 04-03-2018, 07:24 AM
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For those saying they won’t hold value. I sold my Oppo 93 for $240 about a month ago on eBay. Show me another 8 year old Blu-ray player that would have sold for that lol.
One of the primary reasons Oppo players held their value so well was because of the strong support from the company. Things have changed in the last month since you sold your Oppo 93 -- now that famous support continuing into the future is highly in doubt.
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post #254 of 3355 Old 04-03-2018, 07:27 AM
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Well McIntosh is extreme high end. Too rich for my blood by miles but they design and build everything right here in the US. I don't hate high end at all. Oppo was nothing end in my opinion, just over priced.

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post #255 of 3355 Old 04-03-2018, 07:29 AM
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just a bit of reminiscing: Lexicon on the outside: OPPO on the inside

https://www.audioholics.com/blu-ray-...icon-outside-1

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post #256 of 3355 Old 04-03-2018, 07:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Hetfieldjames View Post
The Oppo looks and sounds no different than than any other 4k player. Yet those other brands have apps. How do they do it?

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How does two channel audio sound out of those other players?

The haters continue to think the Oppos are just Blu-ray players which is entirely inaccurate. The majority of the ppl who purchased the 205 did so for the DAC and the two channel analog stage.


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post #257 of 3355 Old 04-03-2018, 07:33 AM
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Originally Posted by RoadLizard View Post
The same 4K disc int going to look any different on my player or your Oppo. If you can point me to a legit, double blind test where viewer after viewer keeps picking the Oppo over the lower cost players in a shootout then Ill come here and concede. Otherwise, I think you guys are just hunting for verification/validation that your player looks better. Sure, maybe they are built better - I already said that. Maybe they physically look nicer. Maybe they have a cool user group following or whatever. But when the rubber hits the road, aka the disc gets played they dont do anything more than any other player. Unless someone can prove me wrong!
It's simply not an apples to apples comparison, and if you compare units side by side, study their design layouts, features sets, build quality, materials - well, that's simply why a lot of people opt for a pricier player. My previous experiences with both Panasonic and Sony DVD and Bluray players in both a home and work environment is that they simply don't last as long as I'd expect. So I banked on Oppo's 103 and 203 for a few applications. So far so good. It's a bummer that this has happened, but you really need to own and use one to appreciate it. Nope, not for everyone, obviously.
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post #258 of 3355 Old 04-03-2018, 07:34 AM
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Originally Posted by T-smith View Post
How does two channel audio sound out of those other players?

The haters continue to think the Oppos are just Blu-ray players which is entirely inaccurate. The majority of the ppl who purchased the 205 did so for the DAC and the two channel analog stage.


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2 channel audio? Seriously, 2 channel audio? 1,200 bucks for 2 channel audio, wow.

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post #259 of 3355 Old 04-03-2018, 07:35 AM
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Originally Posted by markrubin View Post
just a bit of reminiscing: Lexicon on the outside: OPPO on the inside

https://www.audioholics.com/blu-ray-...icon-outside-1
Then there's the evil twin of that, which is Oppo on the outside, but huh??? What the heck is sprouting out the top of this one! Oh... it's a $2494 tube mod of a BDP-105. Lol.



Anyhow, Oppo was perhaps the most-spotted digital player brand of them all at high-end audio shows in recent years. I'm sure it'll have a cult following for years to come.
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post #260 of 3355 Old 04-03-2018, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Hetfieldjames View Post
2 channel audio? Seriously, 2 channel audio? 1,200 bucks for 2 channel audio, wow.

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1200 for a two channel player is peanuts especially when compared to other DACs

Thanks for proving my point though that you don’t even know what these players are capable of but are still in this thread ranting a day later
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post #261 of 3355 Old 04-03-2018, 07:39 AM
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1200 for a two channel player is peanuts especially when compared to other DACs

Thanks for proving my point though that you don’t even know what these players are capable of but are still in this thread ranting a day later
Ranting huh? I'm just having a discussion on how ridiculous these players are and there is reason they are going away.

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post #262 of 3355 Old 04-03-2018, 07:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Hetfieldjames View Post
Because they would have sold more. The 203 was 400 more than what I paid for the x800. 400 is a lot of money and again the Sony did more because it streams. The 205 was just completely outrageous. I mean would people please admit just that?

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Compared to single or dual disc (CD/SACD) audio-only players from boutique companies or "hi-end" luxury companies like Esoteric, McIntosh, and even more luxury brands like hi-priced like Meitner EMMLabs, etc - the Oppo 205 was a huge bargain. There are disc players that cost $10K even 20K out there, not for me babe - I don't have that kind of money and couldn't justify it anyway but spending $500 even $1300 and get all the Oppos can do? in a heartbeat.

So I have to seriously disagree with you. If one has an extensive SACD/DVD-A collection or continues to purchase & enjoy those so-called "dead formats", the Oppo was one of the very few true universal disc players that can play everything & not cost a significant fraction of a car.

If all you need is a budget player to watch movies, go to Best Buy & buy a cheap Samsung or Sony.

The Oppo players I've owned (93,105, 205) had more features, vastly more FW updates. added features, ran circles around speed-wise & overall out-performed every Pioneer player I bought since the inception of Blu-ray (BDP-05, 09 & 62). They also outperformed one of them (the 62) in video quality as measured by Secrets of HiFi lab measurements.

And guess which player the former head of Home Audio div of Pioneer USA personally used in his home? Oppo. He ran the Blu-ray division and he considered Oppo their primary competitor for the AV enthusiasts.

Guess which player Kal Rubinson @ Stereophile uses?
Guess which players are used in the higher end home theater market?
Guess which players can be easily DIY modded for region-free playback with 3rd party chip boards that cost <$100?

Oppo players will be missed.
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post #263 of 3355 Old 04-03-2018, 07:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Hetfieldjames View Post
2 channel audio? Seriously, 2 channel audio? 1,200 bucks for 2 channel audio, wow.

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People who are interested in a high end 2ch audio system think $1200 is a steal, which it is. The 205 has unbelievable performance at a cheap price. If someone has 100k invested into a system you are not going to buy a $150 disc player. The higher end the equipment is the more is revealed. This argument is being heated by two ends of the spectrum.
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post #264 of 3355 Old 04-03-2018, 07:44 AM
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Ya know I call a truce. In the end I'm sure the players were great. They didn't fit what I wanted because I did want streaming. Oppo had a lot of fans. No big deal, everyone likes what they like for a reason. I'm sure Oppo will do current owners right and support the warranty and firmware updates.

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post #265 of 3355 Old 04-03-2018, 07:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Hetfieldjames View Post
Ranting huh? I'm just having a discussion on how ridiculous these players are and there is reason they are going away.

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You’ve been ranting since the news broke last night saying the same thing over and over...where is this discussion?

You clearly don’t play in the two channel world, don’t know anything about what makes these players great for music but still hating because they don’t have apps...come on


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post #266 of 3355 Old 04-03-2018, 07:46 AM
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At the moment I have my 103D and 203 connected (occasional use to the 103D) and I'm wondering if I should box up the 103D and keep it on ice just in case I need the Region Free, SACD and 3D features down the road? Or would is better serve the 103D to give it occasional use?
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post #267 of 3355 Old 04-03-2018, 07:47 AM
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Best Buy announced they are no longer selling CDs. Oppo is closing. Redbox revenue continues to drop. The writing is on the wall for physical media. Compressed streaming is not why I built a home theater. Let's not forget that once this happens, data caps and overage fees will become the norm vs the exception.

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post #268 of 3355 Old 04-03-2018, 07:50 AM
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People who are interested in a high end 2ch audio system think $1200 is a steal, which it is. The 205 has unbelievable performance at a cheap price. If someone has 100k invested into a system you are not going to buy a $150 disc player. The higher end the equipment is the more is revealed. This argument is being heated by two ends of the spectrum.
Connecting a 205 directly to an amp and you can have one hell of a system that blows away an AVR of comparable price. You don't get the features but it can still sound better. I have a couple of friends that do this and driving Revels.


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post #269 of 3355 Old 04-03-2018, 07:50 AM
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Originally Posted by DrMichael View Post
People who are interested in a high end 2ch audio system think $1200 is a steal, which it is. The 205 has unbelievable performance at a cheap price. If someone has 100k invested into a system you are not going to buy a $150 disc player. The higher end the equipment is the more is revealed. This argument is being heated by two ends of the spectrum.
Exactly. A 205 is a steal for all that it does. If someone doesn't want that capability, they can shop for cheaper. But to claim the 205 was outrageously priced - it's all relative to what the intended use is.
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post #270 of 3355 Old 04-03-2018, 07:50 AM
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Wink

Back in the day, I bought the flagship Philips bluray player, among other reasons because it offered subtitle shift, which was very convenient for my projection system. Two years later, firmware updates stopped coming. The Philips began to have more and more trouble reading an increasing number of blu ray discs. I contacted their customer service, just to find out that there wouldn't be any more firmware updates in the future. For a flagship model that was barely two years on the market... In the end, the player refused to play most blurays and dvd's alltogether.

So I bought a second hand Oppo 103 to replace it. Also provides subtitle shift (is there any other brand that offers this feature?) and it plays every disc I throw at it, without protest. And - this might upset some contributors here - I also use it to stream Netflix. Firmware updates keep coming whenever necessary. For a player that hit the market when, six years ago?

I was so happy with my 103 that I recently bought a second one (also second hand), to replace a Denon dvd-player in my living room, because the Denon had disc tray and laser problems. The Denon did a great job upscaling SD-content (better than the scaler of my Panny plasma), but the Oppo performs at least as good in that area. And yes, it also plays DVD-A and SACD, for what it's worth.

So if anyone should ask why it's a shame that Oppo throws in the towel: product support and build quality. These machines are build to last, unlike my Philips and my Denon.
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