Official Panasonic DP-UB820/824 Owner's Thread (No Price Talk) - Page 106 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #3151 of 5941 Old 02-09-2019, 08:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by claw View Post
Your use of the term auto tone mapping is confusing me. The term means different things to different people. Panasonic does not use that term. The UB820 has the HDR Optimizer. Better to just call it the Optimizer.



In SDR/BT2020 mode you set your display to a 2.4 gamma whether you have the Optimizer turned ON or OFF. In HDR mode you set your display to an HDR gamma whether you have the Optimizer turned ON or OFF since it sends HDR signal in both cases.



I have mentioned this before but here goes again.



In HDR output mode, the HDR Optimizer uses the HDR Display Type setting nit value as a tone mapping target. If you choose 500 nit Projector as Display Type, the Optimizer will tone map all bright content above 500 nits so that it falls under 500 nits. It will modify the HDR metadata that the display sees. If the original metadata was MaxDML=4000 and MaxCLL=800, it will modify them to MaxDML=500 and MaxCLL=500. If the metadata was 1000/300, it would modify the metadata to 500/300. The Optimizer is making it easier for your projector to complete the tone mapping of the HDR content. It doesn't have to be concerned with anything above 500 nit because there no longer is any.



In SDR/BT2020 output mode, the HDR Optimizer does not use the HDR Display Type setting. It uses the HDR metadata values to assist in performing a complete tone mapping of the HDR content to a 2.4 Gamma but preserving the BT2020 wide color gamut. The projector in this case does not do any HDR tone mapping since it has already been completed by the UB820.



I can't help you with the settings to use in your brand of projector as I have a JVC. The setting procedures for HDR/BT2020 vs SDR/BT2020 differ just like they do in different brands of HDR TVs.
Awesome explanation!

I now completely understand why SDR2020 is the way to go for projectors.

To your point of different projectors reacting differently to these settings. I have an Optoma UHD65 projector. I have it calibrated with the suggested 2.4 gamma setting.

When I set the 820 to SDR2020 I get much more muted colors than I do with HDR2020 or even REC709 settings on the 820. Does that mean that my projector is not playing well with the SDR2020 setting and I should just stick with the HDR2020 setting, or am I looking at this the wrong way.

Any help would be MUCH appreciated!
Greg
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post #3152 of 5941 Old 02-09-2019, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Redskin View Post
Awesome explanation!

I now completely understand why SDR2020 is the way to go for projectors.

To your point of different projectors reacting differently to these settings. I have an Optoma UHD65 projector. I have it calibrated with the suggested 2.4 gamma setting.

When I set the 820 to SDR2020 I get much more muted colors than I do with HDR2020 or even REC709 settings on the 820. Does that mean that my projector is not playing well with the SDR2020 setting and I should just stick with the HDR2020 setting, or am I looking at this the wrong way.

Any help would be MUCH appreciated!
Greg
I took a look at the user manual and I don't see any way to manually select a BT2020 (REC2020) color profile other than use the HDR display profile. I think that all the other modes including Reference might be REC709. Can you select this combination or will the HDR Display mode prevent you from selecting Gamma and Color Temp?

Display Mode: HDR
Gamma: 2.4
Color Temperature: D65

Severely muted colors can occur when sending SDR BT2020 but the projector is using a HDR PQ gamma curve instead of linear 2.4.

With my JVC, I can manually select the BT2020 color profile in combination with gamma 2.4. I definitely don't see muted colors.

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post #3153 of 5941 Old 02-09-2019, 03:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by claw View Post
I took a look at the user manual and I don't see any way to manually select a BT2020 (REC2020) color profile other than use the HDR display profile. I think that all the other modes including Reference might be REC709. Can you select this combination or will the HDR Display mode prevent you from selecting Gamma and Color Temp?



Display Mode: HDR

Gamma: 2.4

Color Temperature: D65



Severely muted colors can occur when sending SDR BT2020 but the projector is using a HDR PQ gamma curve instead of linear 2.4.



With my JVC, I can manually select the BT2020 color profile in combination with gamma 2.4. I definitely don't see muted colors.
First, hanks for going the extra mile and looking at my user manual, that is very cool of you!

I am able to select

Display Mode: HDR

Gamma: 2.4

Color Temperature: D65

When I switch back-and-forth between HDR 2020 and SDR 2020 on my Panasonic 820, I do see some slight differences in color, not huge though. In HDR2020 the reds, blues , and greens pop and are brighter than when I go to SDR2020.

I wonder if even though my projector is set to correct settings, it is still using a HDR PQ gamma curve instead of linear 2.4 like you mention.

Interesting thing though, skin tones look more natural in SDR2020 and more reddish in HDR2020. I am wondering if SDR2020 is more accurate all around and just seems more muted than HDR2020 because it is HDR2020 is pushing all of the colors too far.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
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post #3154 of 5941 Old 02-09-2019, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Redskin View Post
First, hanks for going the extra mile and looking at my user manual, that is very cool of you!

I am able to select

Display Mode: HDR

Gamma: 2.4

Color Temperature: D65

When I switch back-and-forth between HDR 2020 and SDR 2020 on my Panasonic 820, I do see some slight differences in color, not huge though. In HDR2020 the reds, blues , and greens pop and are brighter than when I go to SDR2020.

I wonder if even though my projector is set to correct settings, it is still using a HDR PQ gamma curve instead of linear 2.4 like you mention.

Interesting thing though, skin tones look more natural in SDR2020 and more reddish in HDR2020. I am wondering if SDR2020 is more accurate all around and just seems more muted than HDR2020 because it is HDR2020 is pushing all of the colors too far.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
Try experimenting with the Dynamic Range Conversion Adj. slider.

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post #3155 of 5941 Old 02-10-2019, 01:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atabea View Post
The 820 does, indeed, perform some clever stuff with the optimizer. While it does not "optimize" on a frame by frame basis (I think only Madvr does this and Lumagen is headed in the same direction), it sure does the next best thing by factoring in the max CLL (brightest pixel) and/or maxDML (max brightness of the mastering display). Like Claw indicated above, If the brightest pixel/scene is determined to be 200 nits then the file is tone mapped to that level. OPPO did claim that their SDR BT2020 tone mapping was also dynamically adaptive to the information on the disc but I am not convinced that it ever was. As to other UHD players, I am not aware of any other player that provides active tone mapping like the 820.
Great. Thank you.
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post #3156 of 5941 Old 02-10-2019, 05:20 AM
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First I apologize for not reading the 105 pages to search if there already is an answer to my question.
I bought the 820 in december and for UHD disks I really like the picture quality, very happy with that.


That said I can not find any iOS app or other manual to IP control this player, something most players do support for the last 8 years.


So my question: is it really only possible to control this player through IR or is there an IP control solution I missed ?
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post #3157 of 5941 Old 02-10-2019, 05:28 AM
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Originally Posted by philphluter View Post
I appreciate that most people on this forum are running projectors but as an OLED user I think my 'problem' is the same as you guys - my LG OLED has a maximum brightness limit of around 700 nit.

I currently run an LG 970 UHD player but actually get a brighter and more watchable picture from the included blu-ray discs than I do with most UHD HDR and DV discs - I find 'The Revenant' almost unwatchable in UHD. Planet Earth II UHD discs using the HLG system are beautifully bright on the OLED.

I am considering buying the 820 but would like confirmation that I will get a brighter picture on UHD discs using the 820's optimisation functionality?

If so I would also appreciate anyone who might be able to explain to me the logic involved? I understand that films mastered at 4,000 nit or even 10,000 nit are the problem in that brightness that is brighter than the OLED / projector is capable of will show all these levels the same - at the devices maximum brightness - hence white 'clipping' occurs. I can see that the 820 can correct this by spreading out the higher brightness levels to show detail in these formally clipped portions but how does it bring the overall brightness level up? My head says the spreading out would darken the medium bright portions?

Thinking about this is driving me mad! Any help would be very much appreciated.
I had a Sony x700 hooked up to my LG E7, took the plunge and bought the Panny 820.

After getting the Panny hooked up and the display output setting set to OLED and optimizer on, I watched Batman vs Superman which I was very familiar with on my Sony player.

The Panasonic is better, it's just a better picture overall. Buy once, cry once.
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post #3158 of 5941 Old 02-10-2019, 07:15 AM
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Originally Posted by trptguy View Post
I had a Sony x700 hooked up to my LG E7, took the plunge and bought the Panny 820.

After getting the Panny hooked up and the display output setting set to OLED and optimizer on, I watched Batman vs Superman which I was very familiar with on my Sony player.

The Panasonic is better, it's just a better picture overall. Buy once, cry once.
Yes but is it $500 better?

Matt
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post #3159 of 5941 Old 02-10-2019, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by mattg3 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by trptguy View Post
I had a Sony x700 hooked up to my LG E7, took the plunge and bought the Panny 820.

After getting the Panny hooked up and the display output setting set to OLED and optimizer on, I watched Batman vs Superman which I was very familiar with on my Sony player.

The Panasonic is better, it's just a better picture overall. Buy once, cry once.
Yes but is it $500 better?
How can someone else possibly define your interpretation of "worth" for you? You have to buy it, try it, and decide for yourself. There is no other way to do it. Go with a place with an easy return policy.

It absolutely was worth it, to ME. I can't speak for you and your threshold of worth.
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post #3160 of 5941 Old 02-10-2019, 11:25 AM
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I am having several issues ith this player I am hoping for some help with. I don’t think I am getting HDR (see first pic). All devices are going into the reciever and output to the tv. All ultra high speed cables are being used. I do get 4k 60 hz 3840x2160 60p HDR UHD using my Apple TV (second pic) waching Jack Ryan.

Here is my setup:

All new components. Denon X6500. Samsung Q7 and this panasonic player. All have HDR10 and are enabled where they can be.

Panny settings:

Resolution Auto
4k/60p 4:4:4
24p auto
Hdmi output mode video plus audio
Dolby vision off
Hdr 10 on
Deep color auto 12bit
Hdr/bt 20:20
Hdcp auto


On the tv:

Hdr plus enabled
Any net cec

Reciever

4k signal format enabled

All firmware has been updated on all devices and I have hard reset the Panny twice.
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post #3161 of 5941 Old 02-10-2019, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by yld2rob View Post
I am having several issues ith this player I am hoping for some help with. I don’t think I am getting HDR (see first pic). All devices are going into the reciever and output to the tv. All ultra high speed cables are being used. I do get 4k 60 hz 3840x2160 60p HDR UHD using my Apple TV (second pic) waching Jack Ryan.

Here is my setup:

All new components. Denon X6500. Samsung Q7 and this panasonic player. All have HDR10 and are enabled where they can be.

Panny settings:

Resolution Auto
4k/60p 4:4:4
24p auto
Hdmi output mode video plus audio
Dolby vision off
Hdr 10 on
Deep color auto 12bit
Hdr/bt 20:20
Hdcp auto


On the tv:

Hdr plus enabled
Any net cec

Reciever

4k signal format enabled

All firmware has been updated on all devices and I have hard reset the Panny twice.
The first shot states the material is not 4K, but your UB820 is upscaling it
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post #3162 of 5941 Old 02-10-2019, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by mattg3 View Post
Yes but is it $500 better?
Yes it Is, Absolutely!
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post #3163 of 5941 Old 02-10-2019, 05:39 PM
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Looking for a dedicated disc player for my JVC rs540u and people seem to mention this player. Now does this playing do the mapping and whatever also for streaming apps or is that just for disc material?

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post #3164 of 5941 Old 02-10-2019, 10:33 PM
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Hi everyone,
I recently purchased an 820.and am running an Epson 9300/6040.I have been running Harpervision on my old player but now believe I don't need to do this on the projector anymore. I've set the 830 to SDR2020 but haven't played with any more settings.
I'm wondering if anyone that owns this combination could assist with the right settings for both projector & player to give me the best image possible.

Appreciate the assistance, I'm not very technical.
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post #3165 of 5941 Old 02-11-2019, 03:02 AM
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Originally Posted by trptguy View Post
How can someone else possibly define your interpretation of "worth" for you? You have to buy it, try it, and decide for yourself. There is no other way to do it. Go with a place with an easy return policy.

It absolutely was worth it, to ME. I can't speak for you and your threshold of worth.
Thanks trptguy. I have the LG C7. Is a UHD HDR disc brighter with the 820 than the Sony player for eg Atomic Blonde, The Revenant or Blade Runner 2019?
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post #3166 of 5941 Old 02-11-2019, 03:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philphluter View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by trptguy View Post
How can someone else possibly define your interpretation of "worth" for you? You have to buy it, try it, and decide for yourself. There is no other way to do it. Go with a place with an easy return policy.

It absolutely was worth it, to ME. I can't speak for you and your threshold of worth.
Thanks trptguy. I have the LG C7. Is a UHD HDR disc brighter with the 820 than the Sony player for eg Atomic Blonde, The Revenant or Blade Runner 2019?
I have both Blade Runner movies in 4k, but don't own the other 2 you mentioned.

I think they are watchable, yes. The room I have the TV in has a large double window, and despite my best efforts to shut out the sunlight, I do have to tweak settings for daytime viewing and nighttime viewing. Those movies are just darker in tone overall.
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post #3167 of 5941 Old 02-11-2019, 04:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Harper View Post
Kris,

Do you have any preliminary reviews on the 820 yet, either a post here or blog/article anywhere else yet?

I’ll be getting one soon, but would love to hear your initial impressions, especially compared to the likes of the Lumagen Radiance Pro and maybe MadVR or custom curves and whatnot.
Hi Dave, Firstly thank you for all your work on Harpervision, much appreciated.
I've use your Harpervision on my Epson 6040 and just purchased a UB820. I was wondering if it is ok to use Harpervision on the 820 or should I be setting the Epson to different settings?
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post #3168 of 5941 Old 02-11-2019, 05:58 AM
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Originally Posted by michaelmoses84 View Post
Hi everyone,
I recently purchased an 820.and am running an Epson 9300/6040.I have been running Harpervision on my old player but now believe I don't need to do this on the projector anymore. I've set the 830 to SDR2020 but haven't played with any more settings.
I'm wondering if anyone that owns this combination could assist with the right settings for both projector & player to give me the best image possible.

Appreciate the assistance, I'm not very technical.
Wondering the same for my 5040. I am assuming 4k60 should be off.

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post #3169 of 5941 Old 02-11-2019, 07:03 AM
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Panasonic ub820 4K issue.

Hi, First time posting and im hoping somebody might be able to help me out.

I have upgraded all my av aquipment to 4K which consists of:
Sony xf900.
Denon 3500.
Apple TV 4K
Sky hd
PS4 pro
Panasonic ub820

The tv is connect to the receiver via a ruipro fibre hdmi which has hugely improved the picture quality and then everything is connected to the receiver using Belkin 1 meter hdmi cables.

The problem I have is that when I got my free 4K Blu Ray with the ub820 I was expecting amazing results over the standerd Blu-ray version. It’s not and I would go as far as saying the normal Blu Ray is better.

I know ithe Blu Ray is being upscaled by either the ub820 or the tv but after reading that native is always better I am either disappointed that the 4K is not good or impressed that the upscaling is so good.

I have also compared it to a sky hd version and even that has better picture quality which I know is being upscaled by the tv.

So I’m sure something is not right.

It might be my 1 meter Belkin cables but I have switched them round and even the Apple TV hdmi test says there good. So I think they are ok. It also comes up with Dolby vision logo when I play the 4K Blu Ray which I didn’t think would happen if the cable wasn’t good enough.

I have played around with the settings with no luck but hopefully someone could point me in the right direction.

Thanks.
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post #3170 of 5941 Old 02-11-2019, 09:09 AM
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Moved to UB820 thread.

Walking the fine line between jaw-dropping and a plain ol' yawn.
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post #3171 of 5941 Old 02-11-2019, 09:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaneyb2 View Post
Hi, First time posting and im hoping somebody might be able to help me out.

I have upgraded all my av aquipment to 4K which consists of:
Sony xf900.
Denon 3500.
Apple TV 4K
Sky hd
PS4 pro
Panasonic ub820

The tv is connect to the receiver via a ruipro fibre hdmi which has hugely improved the picture quality and then everything is connected to the receiver using Belkin 1 meter hdmi cables.

The problem I have is that when I got my free 4K Blu Ray with the ub820 I was expecting amazing results over the standerd Blu-ray version. It’s not and I would go as far as saying the normal Blu Ray is better.

I know ithe Blu Ray is being upscaled by either the ub820 or the tv but after reading that native is always better I am either disappointed that the 4K is not good or impressed that the upscaling is so good.

I have also compared it to a sky hd version and even that has better picture quality which I know is being upscaled by the tv.

So I’m sure something is not right.

It might be my 1 meter Belkin cables but I have switched them round and even the Apple TV hdmi test says there good. So I think they are ok. It also comes up with Dolby vision logo when I play the 4K Blu Ray which I didn’t think would happen if the cable wasn’t good enough.

I have played around with the settings with no luck but hopefully someone could point me in the right direction.

Thanks.
The 820s upscaling is very good and not all 4k discs are substantially better than the Blu-ray. Not sure what 4k disc you are referring to but I have seen a few that definitely don’t look any better than the Blu-ray.
Your settings on your 900f are also likely different for 4k HDR versus standard blurays so you really aren’t comparing apples with apples. I think if you get a good 4k UHD such as Lucy and compare it with the Blu-ray you should see a difference.

Clark
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post #3172 of 5941 Old 02-11-2019, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelmoses84 View Post
Hi everyone,
I recently purchased an 820.and am running an Epson 9300/6040.I have been running Harpervision on my old player but now believe I don't need to do this on the projector anymore. I've set the 830 to SDR2020 but haven't played with any more settings.
I'm wondering if anyone that owns this combination could assist with the right settings for both projector & player to give me the best image possible.

Appreciate the assistance, I'm not very technical.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lithium View Post
Ideally what you want is:

Panny 820: HDR/2020 OUT, Optimizer ON, Display Type: Middle Luminance, That Dynamic Slider Thing 2-3 clicks max to preference.
Epson 5040: Forced SDR Mode IN, HarperVision w/ Oledurt.

You might be getting a 'dim look' because you are clipping/maxing out content to 500 nits with the display type set to projector. You want middle luminance so that the clipping/maxing out is at 1000 nits which HarperVision is calibrated for.
Give this a try.
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post #3173 of 5941 Old 02-11-2019, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monkaquinas View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelmoses84 View Post
Hi everyone,
I recently purchased an 820.and am running an Epson 9300/6040.I have been running Harpervision on my old player but now believe I don't need to do this on the projector anymore. I've set the 830 to SDR2020 but haven't played with any more settings.
I'm wondering if anyone that owns this combination could assist with the right settings for both projector & player to give me the best image possible.

Appreciate the assistance, I'm not very technical.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lithium View Post
Ideally what you want is:

Panny 820: HDR/2020 OUT, Optimizer ON, Display Type: Middle Luminance, That Dynamic Slider Thing 2-3 clicks max to preference.
Epson 5040: Forced SDR Mode IN, HarperVision w/ Oledurt.

You might be getting a 'dim look' because you are clipping/maxing out content to 500 nits with the display type set to projector. You want middle luminance so that the clipping/maxing out is at 1000 nits which HarperVision is calibrated for.
Give this a try.
Do you leave 4k60 4:2:0 on or off?

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post #3174 of 5941 Old 02-11-2019, 11:36 AM
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Do you leave 4k60 4:2:0 on or off?
I leave 4k60 off. I haven't seen anyone with a 5040UB post they are able to display 4k60 due to the HDMI chipset of the 5040.

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post #3175 of 5941 Old 02-11-2019, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monkaquinas View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmeitz View Post
Do you leave 4k60 4:2:0 on or off?
I leave 4k60 off. I haven't seen anyone with a 5040UB post they are able to display 4k60 due to the HDMI chipset of the 5040.
I was able to get it to work, but was set at 4:2:0. But it’s 8bit

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post #3176 of 5941 Old 02-11-2019, 12:26 PM
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I leave 4k60 off. I haven't seen anyone with a 5040UB post they are able to display 4k60 due to the HDMI chipset of the 5040.
Correct, I have it set so that any 60fps content plays at 24 or 30. The Epson really doesn't have the bandwidth for proper 4k60 wide color. You can only do 8-bit at 4k60.

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post #3177 of 5941 Old 02-11-2019, 12:26 PM
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Thanks for your respose.
I have black panther 4K Blu Ray to compare. They are all on the home cinema picture settings on the tv but then the 4K Blu Ray obviously has the Dolby vision. What settings would you Recomend. Thanks.
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post #3178 of 5941 Old 02-11-2019, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Shaneyb2 View Post
Hi, First time posting and im hoping somebody might be able to help me out.

I have upgraded all my av aquipment to 4K which consists of:
Sony xf900.
Denon 3500.
Apple TV 4K
Sky hd
PS4 pro
Panasonic ub820

The tv is connect to the receiver via a ruipro fibre hdmi which has hugely improved the picture quality and then everything is connected to the receiver using Belkin 1 meter hdmi cables.

The problem I have is that when I got my free 4K Blu Ray with the ub820 I was expecting amazing results over the standerd Blu-ray version. It’s not and I would go as far as saying the normal Blu Ray is better.

I know ithe Blu Ray is being upscaled by either the ub820 or the tv but after reading that native is always better I am either disappointed that the 4K is not good or impressed that the upscaling is so good.

I have also compared it to a sky hd version and even that has better picture quality which I know is being upscaled by the tv.

So I’m sure something is not right.

It might be my 1 meter Belkin cables but I have switched them round and even the Apple TV hdmi test says there good. So I think they are ok. It also comes up with Dolby vision logo when I play the 4K Blu Ray which I didn’t think would happen if the cable wasn’t good enough.

I have played around with the settings with no luck but hopefully someone could point me in the right direction.

Thanks.
What UHD are you testing and do you have others to compare? I'm not sure why a UHD would look worse than a blu-ray, unless your HDR settings need to be tweaked. There are a few discs that the blu-ray best the UHD, "The Meg" being one of the, but very few other than that.

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post #3179 of 5941 Old 02-12-2019, 01:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Riddle View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaneyb2 View Post
Hi, First time posting and im hoping somebody might be able to help me out.

I have upgraded all my av aquipment to 4K which consists of:
Sony xf900.
Denon 3500.
Apple TV 4K
Sky hd
PS4 pro
Panasonic ub820

The tv is connect to the receiver via a ruipro fibre hdmi which has hugely improved the picture quality and then everything is connected to the receiver using Belkin 1 meter hdmi cables.

The problem I have is that when I got my free 4K Blu Ray with the ub820 I was expecting amazing results over the standerd Blu-ray version. It’s not and I would go as far as saying the normal Blu Ray is better.

I know ithe Blu Ray is being upscaled by either the ub820 or the tv but after reading that native is always better I am either disappointed that the 4K is not good or impressed that the upscaling is so good.

I have also compared it to a sky hd version and even that has better picture quality which I know is being upscaled by the tv.

So I’m sure something is not right.

It might be my 1 meter Belkin cables but I have switched them round and even the Apple TV hdmi test says there good. So I think they are ok. It also comes up with Dolby vision logo when I play the 4K Blu Ray which I didn’t think would happen if the cable wasn’t good enough.

I have played around with the settings with no luck but hopefully someone could point me in the right direction.

Thanks.
What UHD are you testing and do you have others to compare? I'm not sure why a UHD would look worse than a blu-ray, unless your HDR settings need to be tweaked. There are a few discs that the blu-ray best the UHD, "The Meg" being one of the, but very few other than that.
It’s black panther Ultra HD Blu- Ray. From what I’ve read it should be good as it’s shot at 3.4k resolution for the most part anyway. I don’t have overs to compare at the moment but I am looking at getting other ones that are recommended for best picture.
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post #3180 of 5941 Old 02-12-2019, 02:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monkaquinas View Post
Give this a try.
Thanks for your help. Would those same settings apply to to 6040?
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