Official Panasonic DP-UB820/824 Owner's Thread (No Price Talk) - Page 114 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #3391 of 5094 Old 03-08-2019, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by claw View Post
In HDR output mode, the HDR Optimizer uses the HDR Display Type setting nit value as a tone mapping target. If you choose 500 nit Projector as Display Type, the Optimizer will tone map all bright content above 500 nits so that it falls under 500 nits. It will modify the HDR metadata that the display sees. If the original metadata was MaxDML=4000 and MaxCLL=800, it will modify them to MaxDML=500 and MaxCLL=500. If the metadata was 1000/300, it would modify the metadata to 500/300. The Optimizer is making it easier for your projector to complete the tone mapping of the HDR content. It doesn't have to be concerned with anything above 500 nit because there no longer is any.
It seems that you're implying that there's a value in using both the UB820 Optimizer simultaneously with auto tone mapping being enabled in the new JVC PJ series. Kris Deering has previously advocated against this synergy, suggesting that using both actually causes a degradation of the tone mapping process. Have I misinterpreted your statement?

Also, is the Dynamic Range Adjustment slider in the UB820 performing the same function as the JVC's (gamma) Mapping Level slider? Lastly, how does the UB820's luminance slider factor into obtaining an optimal image? Does this also affect the gamma?

Thanks, as always, for the information that you provide!
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post #3392 of 5094 Old 03-08-2019, 11:09 PM
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Originally Posted by docrog View Post
Does the slider for "Dynamic Range Adjustment" (UB820) perform identically to the "Mapping Level" function in the new line of JVC PJ's? Also what does the slider for "Luminance" do? Is it also gamma manipulation? Thanks for any information!
I don't have one of the new JVC projectors so I don't know.

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post #3393 of 5094 Old 03-08-2019, 11:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by docrog View Post
It seems that you're implying that there's a value in using both the UB820 Optimizer simultaneously with auto tone mapping being enabled in the new JVC PJ series. Kris Deering has previously advocated against this synergy, suggesting that using both actually causes a degradation of the tone mapping process. Have I misinterpreted your statement?

Also, is the Dynamic Range Adjustment slider in the UB820 performing the same function as the JVC's (gamma) Mapping Level slider? Lastly, how does the UB820's luminance slider factor into obtaining an optimal image? Does this also affect the gamma?

Thanks, as always, for the information that you provide!
I am not implying that at all. I was stating what the Optimizer does. Until Kris gets his projector and tests with the UB820, or perhaps more likely the UB9000, we won't know.

I use SDR/BT2020 mode with my previous generation JVC just as Kris recommended.
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Last edited by claw; 03-08-2019 at 11:17 PM.
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post #3394 of 5094 Old 03-09-2019, 01:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by claw View Post
I am not implying that at all. I was stating what the Optimizer does. Until Kris gets his projector and tests with the UB820, or perhaps more likely the UB9000, we won't know.

I use SDR/BT2020 mode with my previous generation JVC just as Kris recommended.
What confuses me is that you stated: "The Optimizer is making it easier for your projector to complete the tone mapping of the HDR content." Doesn't that imply that HDR gamma processing is being performed in BOTH devices?
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post #3395 of 5094 Old 03-09-2019, 02:42 AM
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Originally Posted by claw View Post
Yes, but that doesn't mean I am recommending it. Easier doesn't necessarily mean better. All I can say is wait for Kris to test:

- JVC Auto Tone mapping with UB820/UB9000 in HDR output mode with Optimizer turned off. JVC does all tone mapping.

- JVC Auto Tone mapping combined with UB820/UB9000 in HDR output mode with Optimizer turned on and HDR Display Type set to 500 nits (UB820) or 350 nits (UB9000). Both Panasonic and JVC do tone mapping.

- UB820/UB9000 SDR/BT2020 output mode. Panasonic does all of the tone mapping. No JVC tone mapping.
I agree. Those are the 3 options. Are you able to educate me regarding the way in which the "luminance" slider affects the image? Is it a form of gamma manipulation? If so, how does this differ from the "dynamic range adjustment" slider for HDR?
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post #3396 of 5094 Old 03-09-2019, 04:44 AM
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Originally Posted by m0j0 View Post
Ok, here's the settings I found that are pretty good for the UHD60 and Panasonic UB820:


Display Mode: Cinema
Wall Color: Off
Brightness: 0
Contrast: -2
Sharpness: 8
Color: 19
Tint: -2
Gamma: 2.2
Ultra Detail: 3 (unless film grain is present, then I will drop down to 1 or 2)
Dynamic Black: On
Brilliant Color: 6
Color Temp: D65
Color Gamut: Cinema
CMS: Defaults
Color Space: Auto
RGB Gain/Bias Settings:
Red Gain: -4
Green Gain: -1
Blue Gain: 12
Red Bias: 0
Green Bias: -1
Blue Bias: 2



820 Settings:


HDMI settings:
Resolution: Auto
4K60p Output: 4K/60p(4:4:4)
24p Output: Auto


HDMI Advanced settings:

Color Mode: Auto
Deep Color Output: Auto (10bit Priority)
HDR/Color Gamut Output: SDR/BT.2020 (Auto)
SDR/HDR Conv: Off
HLG/PQ Conversion: Auto
HDR TV Type: Basic Luminance


Player Options while playing movie:

Luma: +1
Edge: +4
Noise Reduction: Optional - If it's an older movie with a lot of distracting film grain, I might set all three noise filters between a value of 1 to 3, until I'm comfortable with the picture

After additional tweaking and testing, these are the settings I have settled on, and I have to say, I am just floored by the quality of the image I am seeing on my UHD60:



Display Mode: Cinema
Wall Color: Off
Brightness: 0
Contrast: -2
Sharpness: 8
Color: 19
Tint: -2
Gamma: 2.4
Ultra Detail: 3 (unless film grain is present, then I will drop down to 1 or 2)
Dynamic Black: On
Brilliant Color: 2
Color Temp: D65
Color Gamut: Cinema
CMS: Defaults
Color Space: Auto
RGB Gain/Bias Settings:
Red Gain: -4
Green Gain: -1
Blue Gain: 12
Red Bias: 0
Green Bias: -1
Blue Bias: 2



820 Settings:


HDMI settings:
Resolution: Auto
4K60p Output: 4K/60p(4:4:4)
24p Output: Auto


HDMI Advanced settings:

Color Mode: Auto
Deep Color Output: Auto (10bit Priority)
HDR/Color Gamut Output: SDR/BT.2020 (Auto)
SDR/HDR Conv: Off
HLG/PQ Conversion: Auto
HDR TV Type: Basic Luminance


Player Options while playing movie:

Luma: +1
Edge: +4
HDR Optimizer: on
Dynamic Range Conversion Adj: +6

Noise Reduction: Optional - If it's an older movie with a lot of distracting film grain, I might set all three noise filters between a value of 1 to 3, until I'm comfortable with the picture


Switching the Gamma to 2.4, turning down the brilliant color setting to 2 on the UHD 60 and then compensating by setting the Dynamic Range Conversion Adj to +6 really helped get the best picture while also eliminating shimmering that I sometimes see on the UHD60 when I set the brilliant color setting above 3.

Last edited by m0j0; 03-09-2019 at 04:51 AM.
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post #3397 of 5094 Old 03-09-2019, 06:25 AM
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I recently picked up the UB820, and I have to say, 1080p blu-rays upconverted to 4K with the player doing the conversion look better than the 4K version of the same movie. I am using a certified premium HDMI cable going directly to my Sony X-930E, which was a top rated HDR TV for 2017, capable of both HDR10 and DV,and streaming HDR from Netflix, Prime, etc. looks great. The TV is rated at almost 1500 nits.

This makes me think that there is a setting or two on the UB820 that's not set right. I have pretty much left everything at default with the exception of changing the TV type to match the brightness of my TV. I have only viewed a few 4K HDR movies thus far it's not very impressive. Switching HDR Optimizer On and Off does not seem to do much.

Can anyone offer suggestions on what I might need to change, specifically those with a Sony X-930E.

Thanks
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post #3398 of 5094 Old 03-09-2019, 07:01 AM
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Please check the thread for your display for display settings.

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post #3399 of 5094 Old 03-09-2019, 08:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshua goard View Post
Sorry if this has been asked already. I am considering this player and have a question about ripped blu ray discs. The Oppo 203 can play full disc backups with menus intact by placing the BDMV folder inside an AVCHD folder and thus is able to play 4k backups with Dolby Vision. Does anyone know if this player can do that?

According to this ...
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/149-b...l#post57007008
... the answer to your question is no. I don't have a "UHD-friendly" drive. But, for the heck of it, I made a full folder backup of a regular blu-ray with true hd atmos, ran BDMV Modifer 2.0 on it, and put it on a thumbdrive. The 820 just saw it as a bunch of folders. It played the ts movie file from the stream folder but only allowed lossy audio. So, unlike the Oppo 203, the 820 won't play full folder backups like physical discs. And the 820 treats ts files the same as it does mkv files vis-a-vis audio tracks.


I know it's not an appropriate discussion for this thread. But I'm curious if Sony's X700 and X800 models can play BDMV folders as discs and if they allow lossless audio on ts and mkv files from connected or networked drives.

Last edited by kxa16; 03-09-2019 at 08:30 AM.
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post #3400 of 5094 Old 03-09-2019, 09:22 AM
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I use the UB820 with my JVC X790R projector and my vizio 4k TV. I send the SDR2020 to my projector and the regular Dolby Vision HDR to my TV. Unfortunately, I do not have a 4K receiver; so, if I want to view the content on the projector, I use one HDMI cable, and to view the content on my TV, I use another HDMI cable (I manually switch the cables on the back of the UB820). I would like to purchase a splitter (but I really want it to function like a "switcher" for outputs; only one device (projector or TV) is on). Could someone recommend a good one (other than the HDFury) that would pass through the SDR2020 or Dolby Vision HDR2020 signals without any alterations? Thanks.

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post #3401 of 5094 Old 03-09-2019, 10:20 AM
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I picked up the UB820 to see how it would fair against my Oppo 203 in my system. I was able to buy a used 203 awhile back for the same as I paid for the UB820 so it was an equal $$ comparison for me. On my TV, TCL, the 820 had a slight improvement with HDR content. On the other hand the lack of lossless audio while playing my video files, Netflix with forced DV @ 60 Hz, and less than stellar amazon Prime streaming is a deal breaker for me. Streaming is handled by dedicated devices in my system. The 43rd time I hit the "Netflix" button on the remote was the nail in the coffin for me. Just my personal experience with this player in my system. There are quite a few members who are experiencing great improvements and find this player an excellent addition to their systems. I think this is terrific and what this hobby ,obsession ,is all about. Having the equipment and system that is the best for you. Enjoy!

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post #3402 of 5094 Old 03-09-2019, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by bguzman View Post
I picked up the UB820 to see how it would fair against my Oppo 203 in my system. I was able to buy a used 203 awhile back for the same as I paid for the UB820 so it was an equal $$ comparison for me. On my TV, TCL, the 820 had a slight improvement with HDR content. On the other hand the lack of lossless audio while playing my video files, Netflix with forced DV @ 60 Hz, and less than stellar amazon Prime streaming is a deal breaker for me. Streaming is handled by dedicated devices in my system. The 43rd time I hit the "Netflix" button on the remote was the nail in the coffin for me. Just my personal experience with this player in my system. There are quite a few members who are experiencing great improvements and find this player an excellent addition to their systems. I think this is terrific and what this hobby ,obsession ,is all about. Having the equipment and system that is the best for you. Enjoy!

What do you mean by "the lack of lossless audio"? Does the HDMI audio have a problem in Panasonic?



Does Panasonic have a problem with Netflix and Amazon Prime?

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post #3403 of 5094 Old 03-09-2019, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by kxa16 View Post
According to this ...
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/149-b...l#post57007008
... the answer to your question is no. I don't have a "UHD-friendly" drive. But, for the heck of it, I made a full folder backup of a regular blu-ray with true hd atmos, ran BDMV Modifer 2.0 on it, and put it on a thumbdrive. The 820 just saw it as a bunch of folders. It played the ts movie file from the stream folder but only allowed lossy audio. So, unlike the Oppo 203, the 820 won't play full folder backups like physical discs. And the 820 treats ts files the same as it does mkv files vis-a-vis audio tracks.


I know it's not an appropriate discussion for this thread. But I'm curious if Sony's X700 and X800 models can play BDMV folders as discs and if they allow lossless audio on ts and mkv files from connected or networked drives.
x700 is the same. Only sees the folders.

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post #3404 of 5094 Old 03-09-2019, 01:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bguzman View Post
I picked up the UB820 to see how it would fair against my Oppo 203 in my system. I was able to buy a used 203 awhile back for the same as I paid for the UB820 so it was an equal $$ comparison for me. On my TV, TCL, the 820 had a slight improvement with HDR content. On the other hand the lack of lossless audio while playing my video files, Netflix with forced DV @ 60 Hz, and less than stellar amazon Prime streaming is a deal breaker for me. Streaming is handled by dedicated devices in my system. The 43rd time I hit the "Netflix" button on the remote was the nail in the coffin for me. Just my personal experience with this player in my system. There are quite a few members who are experiencing great improvements and find this player an excellent addition to their systems. I think this is terrific and what this hobby ,obsession ,is all about. Having the equipment and system that is the best for you. Enjoy!
No doubt the 820 remote is a design nightmare. It’s also not a very good streamer but it excels at UHD and regular bluray playback. It’s getting very hardware specific as to what you need in your HT. For physical media though the Panny players are at the top now.
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post #3405 of 5094 Old 03-09-2019, 02:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sharok View Post
What do you mean by "the lack of lossless audio"? Does the HDMI audio have a problem in Panasonic?



Does Panasonic have a problem with Netflix and Amazon Prime?
When you play a movie stored on a drive Dolby Atmos, True HD, DTS Master Audio and DTS_X are unavailable.
Yes, streaming is less than perfect, search the thread.

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post #3406 of 5094 Old 03-09-2019, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by bguzman View Post
When you play a movie stored on a drive Dolby Atmos, True HD, DTS Master Audio and DTS_X are unavailable.
Yes, streaming is less than perfect, search the thread.

If you're interested:
I purchased a Zidoo X9S just to play from my hard drives (to replace my Oppo-103) and it is great (I don't play 4K using my HDD) at least for any 1080P including 3D and DVD. I pass the signal through Darbee to my OLED E6 and it looks fantastic. It may be the most stable media player in the market with no hiccups (at least, in my case). It plays all audio formats through HDMI pass through.

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post #3407 of 5094 Old 03-09-2019, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by bguzman View Post
When you play a movie stored on a drive Dolby Atmos, True HD, DTS Master Audio and DTS_X are unavailable.
Yes, streaming is less than perfect, search the thread.
This is the main reason I also have a Shield, as it allows me to bitstream 4K mkv files with atmos tracks.
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post #3408 of 5094 Old 03-09-2019, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by sharok View Post
If you're interested:
I purchased a Zidoo X9S just to play from my hard drives (to replace my Oppo-103) and it is great (I don't play 4K using my HDD) at least for any 1080P including 3D and DVD. I pass the signal through Darbee to my OLED E6 and it looks fantastic. It may be the most stable media player in the market with no hiccups (at least, in my case). It plays all audio formats through HDMI pass through.
Thanks for the tip. I'll stick with my Oppo since it also can play my library of SACDs and DVD-As.

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post #3409 of 5094 Old 03-09-2019, 05:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark Burk View Post
No doubt the 820 remote is a design nightmare. It’s also not a very good streamer but it excels at UHD and regular bluray playback. It’s getting very hardware specific as to what you need in your HT. For physical media though the Panny players are at the top now.
Because of the ridiculously placed buttons on the 820's remote (and lack of back lighting), I have had excellent success with Logitech Harmony remotes. FYI, the remote for the UB900 works well with the UB820, although it lacks a dedicated button for HDR. You do get, however, a dedicated button for subtitles.

I'm curious as to why you stated that the UB820 not a good streaming device? Netflix and You Tube are glorious in HDR when mapped to 500 nits for my JVC NX7. I've noted that some shows on Amazon suffer from intermittent "stuttering" (which I don't think is a buffering problem, given the speed of my Ethernet connection: 75 mbps), but this is largely overcome with a small degree of frame interpolation on the PJ.
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post #3410 of 5094 Old 03-09-2019, 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted by gant1080 View Post
I recently picked up the UB820, and I have to say, 1080p blu-rays upconverted to 4K with the player doing the conversion look better than the 4K version of the same movie. I am using a certified premium HDMI cable going directly to my Sony X-930E, which was a top rated HDR TV for 2017, capable of both HDR10 and DV,and streaming HDR from Netflix, Prime, etc. looks great. The TV is rated at almost 1500 nits.

This makes me think that there is a setting or two on the UB820 that's not set right. I have pretty much left everything at default with the exception of changing the TV type to match the brightness of my TV. I have only viewed a few 4K HDR movies thus far it's not very impressive. Switching HDR Optimizer On and Off does not seem to do much.

Can anyone offer suggestions on what I might need to change, specifically those with a Sony X-930E.

Thanks
What UHD’s are you testing against their Blu-Ray counterparts? Did you have a UHD player prior to the UB820 and what were your results with that? Also, do you have your HDMI input on your 930 set to enhanced?

The HDR Optimizer will only make a noticeable difference, to the naked eye, with discs that are mastered with a high nit range. Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them is a great test disc, as it is mastered at 4000 nits, so the optimizer makes a noticeable difference when toggling on/off.

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post #3411 of 5094 Old 03-09-2019, 05:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by docrog View Post
Because of the ridiculously placed buttons on the 820's remote (and lack of back lighting), I have had excellent success with Logitech Harmony remotes. FYI, the remote for the UB900 works well with the UB820, although it lacks a dedicated button for HDR. You do get, however, a dedicated button for subtitles.

I'm curious as to why you stated that the UB820 not a good streaming device? Netflix and You Tube are glorious in HDR when mapped to 500 nits for my JVC NX7. I've noted that some shows on Amazon suffer from intermittent "stuttering" (which I don't think is a buffering problem, given the speed of my Ethernet connection: 75 mbps), but this is largely overcome with a small degree of frame interpolation on the PJ.
My basis for saying the 820 is not a good streaming device is the lack of lossless audio files. If that doesn’t bother you then you’re good to go.
Glad you like the 820. It is a great machine for physical media playback.

Clark

Last edited by Clark Burk; 03-09-2019 at 05:56 PM.
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post #3412 of 5094 Old 03-09-2019, 06:35 PM
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No doubt the 820 remote is a design nightmare. It’s also not a very good streamer but it excels at UHD and regular bluray playback. It’s getting very hardware specific as to what you need in your HT. For physical media though the Panny players are at the top now.
My primary blu-Ray player since 2010 was a Panasonic, and the remote or the UB820 is identical, with the exception of a few buttons. Pretty crazy. The only thing I miss from my Oppo 203 is the remote. With that said, I use a Harmony One, so it’s rare that I ever even use the Panny remote.
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post #3413 of 5094 Old 03-09-2019, 08:42 PM
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My basis for saying the 820 is not a good streaming device is the lack of lossless audio files. If that doesn’t bother you then you’re good to go.
Glad you like the 820. It is a great machine for physical media playback.
With regards to lossless audio files, are you talking about listening to music or movies that have been ripped to a server or music CDs? I play SACD & DVD-A on my Oppo 103D which is also my player for legacy BR movies, as I feel that it's a superior upscaler to either of the Panasonic UHD players or the NX7. In any case, I'm not aware that Netflix, Amazon or You Tube stream lossless audio files. That's the streaming that interests me on the UB820.
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post #3414 of 5094 Old 03-10-2019, 06:30 AM
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With regards to lossless audio files, are you talking about listening to music or movies that have been ripped to a server or music CDs? I play SACD & DVD-A on my Oppo 103D which is also my player for legacy BR movies, as I feel that it's a superior upscaler to either of the Panasonic UHD players or the NX7. In any case, I'm not aware that Netflix, Amazon or You Tube stream lossless audio files. That's the streaming that interests me on the UB820.
Yes, I was referring to movies stored on my server. I also wish the 820 had a feature similar to the ATV4k that would let you receive streamed services in their original format such as 24p. Maybe a future update but that’s been the Panasonic way for years.

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post #3415 of 5094 Old 03-10-2019, 06:37 AM
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Yes, I was referring to movies stored on my server. I also wish the 820 had a feature similar to the ATV4k that would let you receive streamed services in their original format such as 24p. Maybe a future update but that’s been the Panasonic way for years.
OK. Thanks for that clarification. I don't make use of a server for UHD movie content (only BR discs or media codes), so the UB820's audio streaming limitations are irrelevant to my HT.
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post #3416 of 5094 Old 03-10-2019, 07:32 AM
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After a lot of back and forth between the 820 and my Sony X700 I’ve decided to return the 820. It’s got a lot going for it and I really wanted its automatic detection of Dolby Vision. But it’s introducing some kind of visual artifact — white snow noise — into all disc sources. Home screen is fine. Network shares, both 1080p and 4K, are fine. And the same discs in the X700 are fine. Unfortunate!

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post #3417 of 5094 Old 03-10-2019, 07:37 AM
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After a lot of back and forth between the 820 and my Sony X700 I’ve decided to return the 820. It’s got a lot going for it and I really wanted its automatic detection of Dolby Vision. But it’s introducing some kind of visual artifact — white snow noise — into all disc sources. Home screen is fine. Network shares, both 1080p and 4K, are fine. And the same discs in the X700 are fine. Unfortunate!


Hmmmmmm. I wonder if this is what I’ve been seeing. Can you elaborate on this a bit or give /show examples?
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post #3418 of 5094 Old 03-10-2019, 08:14 AM
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After a lot of back and forth between the 820 and my Sony X700 I’ve decided to return the 820. It’s got a lot going for it and I really wanted its automatic detection of Dolby Vision. But it’s introducing some kind of visual artifact — white snow noise — into all disc sources. Home screen is fine. Network shares, both 1080p and 4K, are fine. And the same discs in the X700 are fine. Unfortunate!
Is it possible that your HDMI cable is of insufficient bandwidth for a setting of [email protected] 4:4:4? Try setting the output to 4:2:0 and see if the problem disappears.
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post #3419 of 5094 Old 03-10-2019, 08:37 AM
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Hmmmmmm. I wonder if this is what I’ve been seeing. Can you elaborate on this a bit or give /show examples?
Random single pixels going full white for fraction of a second. It was incredibly obvious during the openings of Planet Earth II and Blue Planet II, where there’s a full black field with the BBC’s purple intro text. Then obvious again during the planet and sun sequence at the start of an episode. The best I can describe it as is snow or a sparkle or a shimmer. The quick pop of white draws the eye. My wife, who often says I’m way too picky about AV stuff, found it pretty distracting. I tried a half dozen discs and could see it on everything. Blus of the Martian, LEGO Batman, Zero Dark. 4K Blus of Planet Earth, Black Panther, Logan.

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post #3420 of 5094 Old 03-10-2019, 09:02 AM
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Random single pixels going full white for fraction of a second. It was incredibly obvious during the openings of Planet Earth II and Blue Planet II, where there’s a full black field with the BBC’s purple intro text. Then obvious again during the planet and sun sequence at the start of an episode. The best I can describe it as is snow or a sparkle or a shimmer. The quick pop of white draws the eye. My wife, who often says I’m way too picky about AV stuff, found it pretty distracting. I tried a half dozen discs and could see it on everything. Blus of the Martian, LEGO Batman, Zero Dark. 4K Blus of Planet Earth, Black Panther, Logan.
Sounds like you may have a textbook case of "The Sparklies". These are bit drops in the HDMI video signal due the HDMI cabling not being up to handling the bandwidth of signal you are trying to send. To test, try temporarily lowering the output video Resolution to, say, 1080p and see if the problem goes away.

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