Official Panasonic DP-UB820/824 Owner's Thread (No Price Talk) - Page 127 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #3781 of 5119 Old 04-01-2019, 08:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Pip View Post
Dominic may have found a solution to this. He said he was able to force the 820 to always output 4K60, at least for streaming. But we haven't heard if he's checked if this works for discs or the player's menu. One would think there should be a way to do this. The Apple TV offers this option, for the very reason of avoiding handshakes. Panasonic should be able to do at least as well.

Pip
Hmm, I see this setting in the manual:

-Color Mode: This setting is for selecting color-space conversion of the image signal.

No further details though.
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post #3782 of 5119 Old 04-01-2019, 08:33 PM
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Originally Posted by MOberhardt View Post
Hmm, I see this setting in the manual:

-Color Mode: This setting is for selecting color-space conversion of the image signal.

No further details though.
Give it a try. See if it solves this problem. It will be very useful to many of it does.

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post #3783 of 5119 Old 04-01-2019, 08:37 PM
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Give it a try. See if it solves this problem. It will be very useful to many of it does.

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Will do. Not at home at the moment though. It would be nice if it made it do 2020 for everything, even blu rays. Although that may introduce picture issues. I'm still nothing but disappointed with everything on the appletv on the 4k projector setup...

I'd be happy enough if the player startup menu defaulted to 2020 though as I think that would make things smoother. I mean if it has to drop to 709 for a blu ray, that is generally not going to cause an issue as it is going to a simpler level

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post #3784 of 5119 Old 04-02-2019, 12:34 AM
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Hmm. I was actually thinking about a HDFury as I'm frankly getting a bit sick of having handshaking issues, either blank video/no signal, or incorrectly going to rec709 for UHD. How have you found the hdfury for sorting that? And which one do you use? Your sig has all three main ones!!! Linker, vertex and integral.
The Vertex combines the functions of the Linker & Integral. Take it for what it's worth, but I bought the UB820 to get rid of my Vertex. I was previously using a UB900 + Vertex to achieve SDR2020 on disc and I stream on the Nvidia SHIELD only.
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post #3785 of 5119 Old 04-02-2019, 01:46 AM
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Originally Posted by MOberhardt View Post
Hmm. I was actually thinking about a HDFury as I'm frankly getting a bit sick of having handshaking issues, either blank video/no signal, or incorrectly going to rec709 for UHD. How have you found the hdfury for sorting that? And which one do you use? Your sig has all three main ones!!! Linker, vertex and integral.
You might take a look at this one. I see some folks indicating it solves HDCP handshake. There was a forum thread over at CurtPalme were a person with very technical machine for debugging tested it and confirmed what it does. But that was in 2017, so not sure if 2019 models still have this feature as many are removing it.
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post #3786 of 5119 Old 04-02-2019, 05:54 AM
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Originally Posted by MOberhardt View Post
Hmm. I was actually thinking about a HDFury as I'm frankly getting a bit sick of having handshaking issues, either blank video/no signal, or incorrectly going to rec709 for UHD. How have you found the hdfury for sorting that? And which one do you use? Your sig has all three main ones!!! Linker, vertex and integral.
I use a Vertex placed between my Denon AVR and my JVC RS500 projector. The new Integral-2 is the same device but less expensive as it doesn't have a built-in LED display.

Your description of issues really sounds to me as though it could be HDMI cable related; if the blank video and no signal problems go beyond normal HDMI syncing due to resolution change, color space change, HDCP change, or HDR/SDR changes. The Vertex cannot solve those HDMI syncs. My primary use of the Vertex now is to drive both the projector and a 1080P TV.

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post #3787 of 5119 Old 04-02-2019, 09:59 AM
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I currently have a Panny UB900 and and Epson 5040 pj. After spending countless frustrating hours trying to calibrate the 5040 with a suitable custom gamma curve for 4K HDR using HCFR and the BT.2390 tone mapping function, I'm ready to give up and buy the 820 and try its tone mapping.

For those of you using it with the Epson 5040, are you doing any gamma curve tweaking in the projector settings, or just leaving it as-is? (Hoping the answer is you just leave it alone.) My thought is I'd still want to do a 2-point grayscale calibration and full CMS calibration, but leave the gamma be. Yes? No? Any other suggestions to get the most out of a 5040/820 combo?

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post #3788 of 5119 Old 04-02-2019, 10:29 AM
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I currently have a Panny UB900 and and Epson 5040 pj. After spending countless frustrating hours trying to calibrate the 5040 with a suitable custom gamma curve for 4K HDR using HCFR and the BT.2390 tone mapping function, I'm ready to give up and buy the 820 and try its tone mapping.
The 5040 has limited flexibility in the gamma adjustments. Have you seen the posts in this thread? They provide some useful suggestions.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...rojectors.html

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For those of you using it with the Epson 5040, are you doing any gamma curve tweaking in the projector settings, or just leaving it as-is? (Hoping the answer is you just leave it alone.) My thought is I'd still want to do a 2-point grayscale calibration and full CMS calibration, but leave the gamma be. Yes? No? Any other suggestions to get the most out of a 5040/820 combo?
The easiest way to use it with the 820 is to set the 820 in the SDR2020 output mode, and calibrate the 5040 using Gamma 2.2 (or 2.4), with the BT.2020 colour profile.
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post #3789 of 5119 Old 04-02-2019, 12:50 PM
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can anyone please explain how the new hdr10 metadata screen works on the ub820 ? i have tried MI: fallout 4k and guardians of the galaxy 2 4k and when i check the screen for metadata info there is no data for media for nits. but there is for hdmi output @1000 nits . thanks in advance for your help
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post #3790 of 5119 Old 04-02-2019, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
The 5040 has limited flexibility in the gamma adjustments. Have you seen the posts in this thread? They provide some useful suggestions.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...rojectors.html
Thanks. I've read through much of that thread as well as the 5040 owners thread. Your posts, among others, were very helpful in getting me as far along as I was. Maybe I just haven't found the right "Diffuse white" value to use when doing the tone mapping adjustments, but every HDR calibration I've tried has ended up too dark for my taste.

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The easiest way to use it with the 820 is to set the 820 in the SDR2020 output mode, and calibrate the 5040 using Gamma 2.2 (or 2.4), with the BT.2020 colour profile.
Ok, so if I'm understanding, once I get the 820, I set it to convert HDR to SDR keeping the BT.2020 color gamut. Then I can use Masciola's HDR test patterns to calibrate with the 5040 set to SDR and 2020.

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post #3791 of 5119 Old 04-02-2019, 01:32 PM
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can anyone please explain how the new hdr10 metadata screen works on the ub820 ? i have tried MI: fallout 4k and guardians of the galaxy 2 4k and when i check the screen for metadata info there is no data for media for nits. but there is for hdmi output @1000 nits . thanks in advance for your help
You need to have the latest firmware, and press the “Playbook Info.” button twice to display the metadata.
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post #3792 of 5119 Old 04-02-2019, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by claw View Post
I use a Vertex placed between my Denon AVR and my JVC RS500 projector. The new Integral-2 is the same device but less expensive as it doesn't have a built-in LED display.

Your description of issues really sounds to me as though it could be HDMI cable related; if the blank video and no signal problems go beyond normal HDMI syncing due to resolution change, color space change, HDCP change, or HDR/SDR changes. The Vertex cannot solve those HDMI syncs. My primary use of the Vertex now is to drive both the projector and a 1080P TV.
Hmm interesting. I have a fiber optic cable. 30ft fibbr ultrapro. Blank has only occurred a couple of times. 709 is common though, and toggling fixes it. Toggling fixes the blank too.

Hmm...
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post #3793 of 5119 Old 04-02-2019, 03:44 PM
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I seemed to have found a scary issue with the 820 and my 4K SONY VPL VW385ES that presumably started after I installed the last firmware update yesterday. I have been very happy with the 820’s tone mapping and use the SDR/BT.2020 mode.

I have people coming over for movie night on Friday night and was checking some setting in the SONY menu while playing the 4K UHD movie I will be showing, Black Panther. In the SONY menu I notice that the display was 3840x2160/60p YCbCr 4:2:0 BT.709, when I was expecting 24p and BT .2020. Why the 820 was now outputting 60p instead of 24p, I don’t know. My SONY 385 can handle 4K60p, but not with full bit depth, plus I like to watch movies with the correct cadence, so this was not good. Panic!

The resolution setting on the 820 was 4K and I tried to set the 4K60p output mode to Off, but that forced the resolution to Auto (1080p). I was trying all combination of setting to try and get the UHD BT .2020 24p back working, but seemingly with no luck, so I decided to watch a bit of the movie see how bad the BT 709 mode looked. Not bad I thought and brought up the SONY Menu only to find that I was watching in 3840x2160/24p YCbCr 4:2:2 BT.2020, which of course, was what I had been expecting from the beginning. Now the 820 settings menu listed the Resolution as Auto (4K) not Auto (1080p). In this mode that I seemed to have somehow achieved, the 820 menus are 1080/60p BT 709, but when I start the movie, it is UHD at 24p and BT .2020. This does seem cause a bit more projector syncing delays when going in and out of the menus, but at least I know that there is a mode that works for Friday's Movie night. It must be in all my setting changes I finally convinced the 820 that the projector could do 4K properly at 24p. I don’t know, but it had me concerned for a bit. Comments appreciated.

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post #3794 of 5119 Old 04-02-2019, 03:48 PM
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Arrow Still Wondering

Played with my issue a tad before bed last night and switching TV inputs doesn't force a change. Unfortunately, power on/off of the player appears to trigger a change but not the TV power. I got it to display the player menu with one of the power cycles, but going into the Netflix menu killed it once again.

No luck with a few power cycles today. I decided to abandon auto settings and make my own choices...the two that have worked so far for a few power cycles have been the HDMI inputs. Video was set to Video+Audio and Audio to Audio Only. My family can actually watch optical media now with just the TV and the player on; auto didn't provide audio because it was too smart and knew both were connected and wouldn't need audio back to the TV. They don't want to be bothered turning things on manually. They have a universal remote that rarely gets used, but a power amp and amp/woofer have manual buttons.

Reached out to Panasonic and Sony last night via their web e-mail. I quickly got auto responses from both but the Panasonic site didn't give me any real options for an "issue". I immediately got canned replies from Panasonic with links to resolutions that didn't apply (that's all I could select)...well, that's what FAQs are for!

Got a response from Sony later in the night telling me to reboot / factory reset but it appeared to be a typical response. Responded and got another response today with them pointing the finger at Panasonic. Figured I'd get this and I'm sure, if Panasonic responds, they'll point it back at them.
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post #3795 of 5119 Old 04-02-2019, 04:36 PM
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I seemed to have found a scary issue with the 820 and my 4K SONY VPL VW385ES that presumably started after I installed the last firmware update yesterday. I have been very happy with the 820’s tone mapping and use the SDR/BT.2020 mode.

I have people coming over for movie night on Friday night and was checking some setting in the SONY menu while playing the 4K UHD movie I will be showing, Black Panther. In the SONY menu I notice that the display was 3840x2160/60p YCbCr 4:2:0 BT.709, when I was expecting 24p and BT .2020. Why the 820 was now outputting 60p instead of 24p, I don’t know. My SONY 385 can handle 4K60p, but not with full bit depth, plus I like to watch movies with the correct cadence, so this was not good. Panic!

The resolution setting on the 820 was 4K and I tried to set the 4K60p output mode to Off, but that forced the resolution to Auto (1080p). I was trying all combination of setting to try and get the UHD BT .2020 24p back working, but seemingly with no luck, so I decided to watch a bit of the movie see how bad the BT 709 mode looked. Not bad I thought and brought up the SONY Menu only to find that I was watching in 3840x2160/24p YCbCr 4:2:2 BT.2020, which of course, was what I had been expecting from the beginning. Now the 820 settings menu listed the Resolution as Auto (4K) not Auto (1080p). In this mode that I seemed to have somehow achieved, the 820 menus are 1080/60p BT 709, but when I start the movie, it is UHD at 24p and BT .2020. This does seem cause a bit more projector syncing delays when going in and out of the menus, but at least I know that there is a mode that works for Friday's Movie night. It must be in all my setting changes I finally convinced the 820 that the projector could do 4K properly at 24p. I don’t know, but it had me concerned for a bit. Comments appreciated.
I'd have to check that disc, but from my experience, this is another part of the insanity of this whole 4k HDCP 2.2 era, in that various bits are varoius formats. The player starts with a bt709 menu, and I'm not sure off hand what the frame rate is (24 or 60), and I have noticed on some UHD discs that the actual menus are bt709, and definitely some of that other rubbish like studio disclaimers, fbi warning, ratings warning, etc, and once again, I'm not sure on frame rates, but it would not surprise me if they did 60p on some of these. Just to drive the display device nuts forcing continual renegotiation...
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post #3796 of 5119 Old 04-02-2019, 05:01 PM
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I'd have to check that disc, but from my experience, this is another part of the insanity of this whole 4k HDCP 2.2 era, in that various bits are varoius formats. The player starts with a bt709 menu, and I'm not sure off hand what the frame rate is (24 or 60), and I have noticed on some UHD discs that the actual menus are bt709, and definitely some of that other rubbish like studio disclaimers, fbi warning, ratings warning, etc, and once again, I'm not sure on frame rates, but it would not surprise me if they did 60p on some of these. Just to drive the display device nuts forcing continual renegotiation...
I did check another disk, Fantastic Beasts, and it was also 60p BT 709, before I magically fixed it. And with the 4K60p setting turned off, Black Panther did finally play in 24p BT .2020, as I am pretty sure it should. I am pretty sure that before the update, I had the 4K60p setting on and it all worked, but I don't think that 4K 60p mode was ever used as I don't have any disks that use 60p. My Apple TV, yes, disks, no. Now, I seemed to need to turn off 4K60p on the 820 to get the 24Hz 2020 mode to work. Once my Movie Night is over, I'll try a few more combination of settings and see what happens.

I agree that having such a mishmash of formats on a single disk is a PITA.
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post #3797 of 5119 Old 04-02-2019, 05:05 PM
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That is just insane. This whole hdcp 2.2 era and the accompanying media and hardware has been headache inducing...
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post #3798 of 5119 Old 04-02-2019, 06:35 PM
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You need to have the latest firmware, and press the “Playbook Info.” button twice to display the metadata.
i do have firmware 1.55 . when i got home today i tried passengers 4k and it gave me the metadata info for the disc. now another dumb question. with hdr optimizer on the maximum luminance is 1000 nit and with it off it is 4000 nits ,that means i should leave it off for this disc ?
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post #3799 of 5119 Old 04-02-2019, 07:04 PM
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can anyone please explain how the new hdr10 metadata screen works on the ub820 ? i have tried MI: fallout 4k and guardians of the galaxy 2 4k and when i check the screen for metadata info there is no data for media for nits. but there is for hdmi output @1000 nits . thanks in advance for your help
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i do have firmware 1.55 . when i got home today i tried passengers 4k and it gave me the metadata info for the disc. now another dumb question. with hdr optimizer on the maximum luminance is 1000 nit and with it off it is 4000 nits ,that means i should leave it off for this disc ?
Guardians of Galaxy 2 does not have any MaxCLL or MaxFall values which is why you see none reported. I don't have data for MI Fallout but I assume it is the same since you see none.

MaxDML 1000
MinDML 0.005
MaxCLL 0
MaxFall 0

Passengers has:

MaxDML 4000
MinDML 0.005
MaxCLL 1529
MaxFall 380

With HDR Optimizer turned and HDR TV Type set to an option that maps to 1000 nit, the Optimizer will change the MaxDML value to 1000 and MaxCLL to 1000 or something less.

The Optimizer is doing what it should. It is tone mapping the brightest content that extends from 1000 nit to 1529 nit down to nit values inside of 1000. This way your ~1000 nit TV takes over and sees a 1000 nit title. This is exactly the type of title for which you want the Optimizer turned ON.

While for Guardians the Optimizer is not doing much tone mapping at all due to the null MaxCLL value and because MaxDML is 1000 that matches the maximum nit level of your TV.

CJ
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Last edited by claw; 04-02-2019 at 07:21 PM.
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post #3800 of 5119 Old 04-03-2019, 03:30 AM
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Guardians of Galaxy 2 does not have any MaxCLL or MaxFall values which is why you see none reported. I don't have data for MI Fallout but I assume it is the same since you see none.

MaxDML 1000
MinDML 0.005
MaxCLL 0
MaxFall 0

Passengers has:

MaxDML 4000
MinDML 0.005
MaxCLL 1529
MaxFall 380

With HDR Optimizer turned and HDR TV Type set to an option that maps to 1000 nit, the Optimizer will change the MaxDML value to 1000 and MaxCLL to 1000 or something less.

The Optimizer is doing what it should. It is tone mapping the brightest content that extends from 1000 nit to 1529 nit down to nit values inside of 1000. This way your ~1000 nit TV takes over and sees a 1000 nit title. This is exactly the type of title for which you want the Optimizer turned ON.

While for Guardians the Optimizer is not doing much tone mapping at all due to the null MaxCLL value and because MaxDML is 1000 that matches the maximum nit level of your TV.
Thanks for all your help !
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post #3801 of 5119 Old 04-03-2019, 05:46 AM
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Originally Posted by MOberhardt View Post
I'd have to check that disc, but from my experience, this is another part of the insanity of this whole 4k HDCP 2.2 era, in that various bits are varoius formats. The player starts with a bt709 menu, and I'm not sure off hand what the frame rate is (24 or 60), and I have noticed on some UHD discs that the actual menus are bt709, and definitely some of that other rubbish like studio disclaimers, fbi warning, ratings warning, etc, and once again, I'm not sure on frame rates, but it would not surprise me if they did 60p on some of these. Just to drive the display device nuts forcing continual renegotiation...
A big reason why even many of we forum members, the last of the videophile nuts, are giving up on physical media. One never has to deal with these problems with the ATV. As far as the hundreds of Blu-rays I already own, or any new special editions I buy, I'm in the process of ripping them all to my NAS so I don't have to deal with any of this crap anymore.

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post #3802 of 5119 Old 04-03-2019, 07:17 AM
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As much as I might agree with the rant against hdcp 2.2 and the mishmash of formats on current physical media, I'll add that I have played the Black Panther UHD DVD a number of times without problems. I had the impression that before this latest firmware update that everything was upscaled to 4K and I am not sure that is the case anymore. I obviously need to experiment more. I have actually wanted the feature where it would send data to the projector in the format on the DVD and let my SONY projector do the upscaling, but had the impression that everything was upscaled to 4K with the 820 and resolution set to 4K. That certainly was the case with my OPPO 203 with the 4K settings I was using. The problem I had then was that unless I let the OPPO do the upscaling to 4K, older disks that were 480i would not work with the projector as it would only accept 480p or better. There was no way that I found of having the OPPO do the deinterlacing and the projector the upscaling.

Perhaps the whole problem yesterday was just an EDID misunderstanding that somehow got resolved.
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post #3803 of 5119 Old 04-03-2019, 02:34 PM
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A big reason why even many of we forum members, the last of the videophile nuts, are giving up on physical media. One never has to deal with these problems with the ATV. As far as the hundreds of Blu-rays I already own, or any new special editions I buy, I'm in the process of ripping them all to my NAS so I don't have to deal with any of this crap anymore.

Pip
Maybe it is because I am in Australia, but I frigging hate the Apple TV on my setup. I have yet to have a decent viewing experience on it. I've never heard Atmos from it. I don't believe I've actually seen native 4k 2020 on it. Even for SDR 709 the colors look horrible even with the same settings on the projector as I use for Blu-ray playback. I hate the user 8nterface on it and their lack of direct commands and the idiot simplified menu setup. All the options I can easily access on a disc player, or even my zidoo, are too hard to get to or non existent. I'd put up with the handshaking, as much as it annoys me and is a failing on the behalf of manufacturers, as I can get known ultra high quality.
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post #3804 of 5119 Old 04-03-2019, 03:45 PM
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Maybe it is because I am in Australia, but I frigging hate the Apple TV on my setup. I have yet to have a decent viewing experience on it. I've never heard Atmos from it. I don't believe I've actually seen native 4k 2020 on it. Even for SDR 709 the colors look horrible even with the same settings on the projector as I use for Blu-ray playback. I hate the user 8nterface on it and their lack of direct commands and the idiot simplified menu setup. All the options I can easily access on a disc player, or even my zidoo, are too hard to get to or non existent. I'd put up with the handshaking, as much as it annoys me and is a failing on the behalf of manufacturers, as I can get known ultra high quality.
I’m not an Apple fan but I prefer the ATV4K over the other streaming boxes I’ves used, including Amazon FireTV, nVidia Shield, and a few other Android boxes. The ATV is very flexible and lets you specify the screen resolution, fresh rate, SDR vs HDR user interface, match original rate/range or convert.

In comparison, I find the UB820 interface much harder to navigate. You can’t even specify whether the UI should show in SDR or HDR.

Last edited by Dominic Chan; 04-03-2019 at 03:52 PM.
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post #3805 of 5119 Old 04-03-2019, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Pip View Post
A big reason why even many of we forum members, the last of the videophile nuts, are giving up on physical media. One never has to deal with these problems with the ATV. As far as the hundreds of Blu-rays I already own, or any new special editions I buy, I'm in the process of ripping them all to my NAS so I don't have to deal with any of this crap anymore.

Pip
Giving up on physical media for inferior streaming?
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post #3806 of 5119 Old 04-03-2019, 04:19 PM
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Maybe it is because I am in Australia, but I frigging hate the Apple TV on my setup. I have yet to have a decent viewing experience on it. I've never heard Atmos from it. I don't believe I've actually seen native 4k 2020 on it. Even for SDR 709 the colors look horrible even with the same settings on the projector as I use for Blu-ray playback. I hate the user 8nterface on it and their lack of direct commands and the idiot simplified menu setup. All the options I can easily access on a disc player, or even my zidoo, are too hard to get to or non existent. I'd put up with the handshaking, as much as it annoys me and is a failing on the behalf of manufacturers, as I can get known ultra high quality.
Aussie as well,

Cant stand streaming and not interested in compromising my movie experiments to save a few dollars. If I was I certainly wouldn't be on the 820 page but I do understand it appeals to some.
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post #3807 of 5119 Old 04-03-2019, 04:29 PM
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Aussie as well,

Cant stand streaming and not interested in compromising my movie experiments to save a few dollars. If I was I certainly wouldn't be on the 820 page but I do understand it appeals to some.
I guess if I had an OK TV and a fake "Atmos" soundbar, streaming would seem great. With my theater room gear, it is like being punched in the face continually, and I end up giving up trying to get decent quality and end up feeling worse when I'm done than when I started. The exact OPPOSITE of when I watch a blu ray or UHD on the Panasonic, where MAY I get a little bit of up front frustration with the handshaking, but by the end of my viewing, I'm usually just blown away and feel so utterly grateful for the AV tech era I live in.

I can only put up with streaming on the old upstairs 1080p/2 channel setup...
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post #3808 of 5119 Old 04-03-2019, 04:36 PM
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I guess if I had an OK TV and a fake "Atmos" soundbar, streaming would seem great. With my theater room gear, it is like being punched in the face continually, and I end up giving up trying to get decent quality and end up feeling worse when I'm done than when I started. The exact OPPOSITE of when I watch a blu ray or UHD on the Panasonic, where MAY I get a little bit of up front frustration with the handshaking, but by the end of my viewing, I'm usually just blown away and feel so utterly grateful for the AV tech era I live in.

I can only put up with streaming on the old upstairs 1080p/2 channel setup...
Totally agree,

The only streaming I do is the odd TV show on Netflix via the OLED app or WWE for the kids. Otherwise strictly discs for me.
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post #3809 of 5119 Old 04-03-2019, 04:39 PM
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As much as I might agree with the rant against hdcp 2.2 and the mishmash of formats on current physical media, ...
Perhaps the whole problem yesterday was just an EDID misunderstanding that somehow got resolved.

My 950G is HDCP 2.3 and wondering if that could be another issue with the player. Forcing both HDMI ports to manual didn't resolve my "no input" issue since it's more random. At times I get "snow" and clicking out the speakers and have to power cycle to get rid of that.

Still no word from Panasonic and not holding my breath. Unfortunately way past a return window.
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post #3810 of 5119 Old 04-03-2019, 05:07 PM
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Talking Oh, The Joy of Choices

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Totally agree,

The only streaming I do is the odd TV show on Netflix via the OLED app or WWE for the kids. Otherwise strictly discs for me.
Wow, quite the snobs here.

I go to where the content is because no service has everything I'm interested in.

I subscribe to my cable TV provider for HBO/Showtime shows, other movie channels and cable news. I subscribe to Netflix optical media because you don't get the newly released stuff from their streaming service. Many movies are hardly worth purchasing or even watching a second time. I stream some shows from Netflix and some movies not available via optical or if I don't want to wait for the mailing. Prime has just a handful of stuff I bother with, to include a few shows or movies Netflix doesn't carry. Then there's Vudu for stuff not available from the previous choices and the very occasional movie rental of yet to be released new stuff.

Don't bother with hulu (who the hell pays for OTA programming with commercials?) or the multitude of crappy "cord cutter" garbage out there that's "free". Guess people are settlers like the DirectTV commercials. I have OTA setup but it's only there if there happens to be a cable outage and desperate enough that I needed to watch crappy commercial ridden junk. Same goes for youtube junk....that's a computer thing for something I may be interested that's running in the background, on another monitor, while I read/doing something else.

And I'm not one of those that goes out to rebuy my previous generation movie collection. I'm only buying 4K titles of new releases, something I didn't have but haven't gotten around to getting, and not up converted (fake 4K). I've ripped some of my collection (MKV) for internal streaming from NAS but too much work and have to find some "I'm bored" time. I did that with my music collection (WAV).

Wow, now I sound like a snob too.

Back on topic. I prefer optical media over streaming and don't buy every piece of garbage hollywood releases; that's where the other source compromise comes in. I still go to theaters when I feel the movie is good enough for my $.


Last edited by IGotB&; 04-03-2019 at 06:01 PM.
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