Official Panasonic DP-UB820/824 Owner's Thread (No Price Talk) - Page 133 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #3961 of 5119 Old 04-10-2019, 04:55 PM
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Here's the larger "pamphlet" that doesn't come with the player. Slightly better with diagrams but still very light on menu descriptions. I think some of the descriptions in the player menu are better.

https://eww.pavc.panasonic.co.jp/bd/...TQBS0258-3.pdf
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post #3962 of 5119 Old 04-10-2019, 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by IGotB& View Post
Here's the larger "pamphlet" that doesn't come with the player. Slightly better with diagrams but still very light on menu descriptions. I think some of the descriptions in the player menu are better.

https://eww.pavc.panasonic.co.jp/bd/...TQBS0258-3.pdf
Was that in reply to me? If so, thank you. But it really didn't help me in my case.
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post #3963 of 5119 Old 04-10-2019, 06:41 PM
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Was that in reply to me? If so, thank you. But it really didn't help me in my case.


It’s akin to a pure mode on a AVR that turns off all video processing and front display.

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post #3964 of 5119 Old 04-10-2019, 06:54 PM
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It’s akin to a pure mode on a AVR that turns off all video processing and front display.
Ah ok. Thanks! Nothing I need to worry about for movie watching then.
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post #3965 of 5119 Old 04-10-2019, 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted by gomo657 View Post
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Originally Posted by zeonstar View Post
Was that in reply to me? If so, thank you. But it really didn't help me in my case.


It’s akin to a pure mode on a AVR that turns off all video processing and front display.
I have the high clarity sound (video on) turned on in order to have no front display but wasn’t aware it turned off all video processing as well..? What exactly does this affect? Is the video on setting versus off for high clarity sound therefore just turning on the display off feature versus any video processing as it would do instead of set to video off to disable more than just the display such as video processing when purely listening to audio? I’m using the separate HDMI video straight to my TV and audio to my AVR if that makes any difference pertaining to this setting.

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post #3966 of 5119 Old 04-10-2019, 10:23 PM
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Originally Posted by gomo657 View Post
It’s akin to a pure mode on a AVR that turns off all video processing and front display.
I think you meant all audio processing and the front display.

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post #3967 of 5119 Old 04-11-2019, 02:09 AM
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Official Panasonic DP-UB820/824 Owner's Thread (No Price Talk)

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Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
I believe these pictures actually demonstrate the potential risks of double tone-mapping. You were using some custom gamma curve that already performs tone mapping. The UB820 is totally unaware of that, and performs its own tone mapping based only on the input signal. The result is dulled highlights as you noticed.



I mentioned that in a previous post:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/149-b...l#post57855832



The UB820 would do a much better job than what the above pictures show, if you use gamma 2.4 or 2.2 on the Epson, together with SDR2020 on the UB820.


Ok that’s interesting, I have an rs400 and using mannis custom Dolby cinema 106nit curve with great results on my 203. How would I set the 820 for hdr2020 and not double tone map?


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post #3968 of 5119 Old 04-11-2019, 06:51 AM
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Originally Posted by vollans View Post
I think you meant all audio processing and the front display.



There was also a wide range of settings provided in the DMP-UB900’s Audio setup menu. The player has a High Clarity Sound mode that shuts off both video circuits and the front-panel display to reduce noise when playing music, and offers a range of Sound Effects settings to upsample lower-res files to up to 192-kHz/32-bit resolution or apply processing modes that model the effects of vacuum tube amps on audio signals.


Read more at https://www.soundandvision.com/conte...dsaZFbKT5qx.99


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post #3969 of 5119 Old 04-11-2019, 07:25 AM
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Originally Posted by johnnyboy632 View Post
Ok that’s interesting, I have an rs400 and using mannis custom Dolby cinema 106nit curve with great results on my 203. How would I set the 820 for hdr2020 and not double tone map?
You can't if you have the UB820 set to output HDR with the HDR Optimizer turned ON (tone mapping enabled). The JVC will always apply the curve to incoming HDR content.

With the HDR Optimzer turned ON and HDR Display Type set to Projector, the UB820 will tone map to 500 nits. There is no way any JVC projector can display 500 nits so it has to tone map using the curve; in this case to 106 nits.

The only way to avoid tone mapping in the JVC is to set the UB820 output mode to SDR/BT2020 (with Optimizer turned ON of course) and use the 2.4 gamma in the JVC. Which, by the way, produces excellent results. I tried my own Arve curves, Manni's Dolby Cinema Emulation 106 nit curves, and Javs 80 nit curves. I use the UB820 Optimizer to tone map to SDR/BT2020 instead with my RS500.
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post #3970 of 5119 Old 04-11-2019, 07:33 AM
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Originally Posted by johnnyboy632 View Post
Ok that’s interesting, I have an rs400 and using mannis custom Dolby cinema 106nit curve with great results on my 203. How would I set the 820 for hdr2020 and not double tone map?
When the UB820 maps to 500 nits, there will be no input values to the projector beyond about 70%. If you use the 4K curve on your RS400 you will "waste" about 30% of the peak luminance; the 1K curve wastes about 15%.

To maximize your highlights you can use a custom curve for 500-nit peak, or simply use SDR2020.

EDIT: Note that all projector tone curves use a scale factor ("bs" in Arve's Tool), with a typical value of 4-5. Thus the 106nit curve is considered to have a "virtual nits" of 400-500; i.e., the EOTF will follow that of a 400-500nit TV. I have attached the Arve plot for Jav's 1200nitv3 curve. It is catered for a projector with 100 nits peak, and has a virtual peak nits of 455 nits. The values I posted are based on a peak luminance of 120 nits.
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Last edited by Dominic Chan; 04-11-2019 at 08:25 AM.
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post #3971 of 5119 Old 04-11-2019, 09:16 AM
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These are the settings I use for SDR2020 on my RS600 for Movies,I don't stream movies in my Theater so I can't comment weather these are any good for that. Projector: 2.4 Gamma with BT2020,all other settings on "0". On the UB820: SDR2020,HDR Optimizer On. Dynamic Range Adj either 4 or 5 depending on the movie,Brightness "-1",Tone Curve White +2,Tone Curve Black +2,System Gamma +4. Under Video Settings: Color Adj +1,Sharpness,Luma "High" +3,Luma "Mid" +3,Chroma +3,Edge Correction +5. Noise Reduction: Block Noise 1,Random Noise 1,Mosquito Noise 1. In my room these settings give me an excellent picture for 4K. Try them for yourselves and make any changes that works best for you. 126" 16X9 Seymour AT Screen,12' viewing from Screenwall.
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post #3972 of 5119 Old 04-11-2019, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
When the UB820 maps to 500 nits, there will be no input values to the projector beyond about 70%. If you use the 4K curve on your RS400 you will "waste" about 30% of the peak luminance; the 1K curve wastes about 15%.



To maximize your highlights you can use a custom curve for 500-nit peak, or simply use SDR2020.



EDIT: Note that all projector tone curves use a scale factor ("bs" in Arve's Tool), with a typical value of 4-5. Thus the 106nit curve is considered to have a "virtual nits" of 400-500; i.e., the EOTF will follow that of a 400-500nit TV. I have attached the Arve plot for Jav's 1200nitv3 curve. It is catered for a projector with 100 nits peak, and has a virtual peak nits of 455 nits. The values I posted are based on a peak luminance of 120 nits.


Ok thanks for clarifying, would there be any use in using a 4k curve for 4000nit title or would you still use a 1k or 1200v3 curves as a universal curve for hdr2020 regardless of what brightness the movies mastered at?


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post #3973 of 5119 Old 04-11-2019, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by johnnyboy632 View Post
Ok thanks for clarifying, would there be any use in using a 4k curve for 4000nit title or would you still use a 1k or 1200v3 curves as a universal curve for hdr2020 regardless of what brightness the movies mastered at?


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To use HDR2020 you set the UB820 display type to Projector and turn on HDR Optimizer. The Info screen should then say something like “4000 nits in, 500 nits out”. Thus the projector always sees 500 nits max, so you would use a single curve for all mastering levels.

Using 4K curve in this case would be wasting precious lumens as you’ll get only 70% of the full brightness. Even a 1K curve wastes some, but much less. A 500nit curve would give you the brightest highlights, still without clipping.
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post #3974 of 5119 Old 04-11-2019, 02:40 PM
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So no one figured out no atmos out for neflix app yet?
It's strange that I'm getting atmos from UHD disc playing but not from netflix app.
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post #3975 of 5119 Old 04-11-2019, 05:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyboy632 View Post
I have an rs400 and using mannis custom Dolby cinema 106nit curve with great results on my 203. How would I set the 820 for hdr2020 and not double tone map?
Have you tried SDR2020 yet? It is much better than “HDR”. I have also a RS400 and the 820 set up properly will knock your socks off. You are in for a real treat and selling that 203 for more than you paid for the 820 is just icing on the cake.

I made a quick JVC & UB820 Step-by-Step Guide (clicky) you might find useful.
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post #3976 of 5119 Old 04-11-2019, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
To use HDR2020 you set the UB820 display type to Projector and turn on HDR Optimizer. The Info screen should then say something like “4000 nits in, 500 nits out”. Thus the projector always sees 500 nits max, so you would use a single curve for all mastering levels.



Using 4K curve in this case would be wasting precious lumens as you’ll get only 70% of the full brightness. Even a 1K curve wastes some, but much less. A 500nit curve would give you the brightest highlights, still without clipping.


Thanks mate for the info. Any chance that you would have a 500nit pre made curve for me to try?


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post #3977 of 5119 Old 04-11-2019, 06:48 PM
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Have you tried SDR2020 yet? It is much better than “HDR”. I have also a RS400 and the 820 set up properly will knock your socks off. You are in for a real treat and selling that 203 for more than you paid for the 820 is just icing on the cake.



I made a quick JVC & UB820 Step-by-Step Guide (clicky) you might find useful.


Yeah I am gonna have in my setup the 820 for sdr2020 and my 203 for hdr2020. Then I can have both types, I just can’t sell the 203 love it too much lol


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post #3978 of 5119 Old 04-11-2019, 07:14 PM
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Any chance that you would have a 500nit pre made curve for me to try?
Here are two 500nit curves I whipped out quickly, in both .conf and .jgd formats. They should only be used in conjunction with the UB820 Optimizer outputting 500 nits. The hc version follow the PQ curve up to 500 nits and clips beyond that; it has no tone mapping at all. The sc version is brighter than the hc version (lower scale factor), and some mild tone mapping between 300 and 500 nits. I haven't tested them extensively, but they do generally behave as I expect.
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post #3979 of 5119 Old 04-12-2019, 02:47 AM
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Here are two 500nit curves I whipped out quickly, in both .conf and .jgd formats. They should only be used in conjunction with the UB820 Optimizer outputting 500 nits. The hc version follow the PQ curve up to 500 nits and clips beyond that; it has no tone mapping at all. The sc version is brighter in the mid range than the hc version, and some mild tone mapping between 300 and 500 nits. I haven't tested them extensively, but they do generally behave as I expect.


That’s awesome thanks I will load them and see what results I get for my setup. I know you specifically said to use with only the 820. Could I use these curves with my 203 outputting hdr2020. I have both players in my setup and was going thinking to use 820 with sdr2020 and 203 with hdr2020, let me know your thoughts


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So no one figured out no atmos out for neflix app yet?
It's strange that I'm getting atmos from UHD disc playing but not from netflix app.
Nope, I have the same issue with UB9000 and started a discussion on UK AV forums, Panasonic support are not interested and won't provide support for this issue, claiming its a Netflix issue and speak to them, and Netflix just parrot it not being an officially supported device for Atmos, as per their website faq. But neither can I get Atmos on Jack Ryan from the Amazon app, where others can. I think it is a Receiver compatibility issue, the Apps are not seeing something on the HDMI handshake, so Atmos is disabled in the apps, this also sometimes manifests as well for HDR and DV where the app only offers HD, so the Netflix app also seems quite buggy to me. When this happens going into the Amazon app, and playing something HDR, means I can go back into the Netflix app, and HDR/UHD support is restored in Netflix. Ultimately I gave up with Panasonic support on this issue, and tried the 4K Apple TV. Here, whilst Atmos is fine, and you get the added benefit of 24Hz support, I found the PQ of the apps lacking in comparison. Whilst I don't use the Panasonic tone-mapping, this is if course lacking on ATV as well. But as of last week the Apple update seems to have improved the PQ, particularly the sharpness and elevated blacks I was seeing.

As regards the issue of Atmos on Panny for streaming apps, it does seem that universally anyone with a Denon or Arcam is fine, Yamaha which I have, at least the 3050 and 3070 are a no-go. Someone in this thread mentioned you must have the Panny ouputting 4:4:4 12-bit and force the Netflix account preferences to High quality from Auto, but this makes no difference for me.
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post #3981 of 5119 Old 04-12-2019, 05:00 AM
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Nope, I have the same issue with UB9000 and started a discussion on UK AV forums, Panasonic support are not interested and won't provide support for this issue, claiming its a Netflix issue and speak to them, and Netflix just parrot it not being an officially supported device for Atmos, as per their website faq. But neither can I get Atmos on Jack Ryan from the Amazon app, where others can. I think it is a Receiver compatibility issue, the Apps are not seeing something on the HDMI handshake, so Atmos is disabled in the apps, this also sometimes manifests as well for HDR and DV where the app only offers HD, so the Netflix app also seems quite buggy to me. When this happens going into the Amazon app, and playing something HDR, means I can go back into the Netflix app, and HDR/UHD support is restored in Netflix. Ultimately I gave up with Panasonic support on this issue, and tried the 4K Apple TV. Here, whilst Atmos is fine, and you get the added benefit of 24Hz support, I found the PQ of the apps lacking in comparison. Whilst I don't use the Panasonic tone-mapping, this is if course lacking on ATV as well. But as of last week the Apple update seems to have improved the PQ, particularly the sharpness and elevated blacks I was seeing.

As regards the issue of Atmos on Panny for streaming apps, it does seem that universally anyone with a Denon or Arcam is fine, Yamaha which I have, at least the 3050 and 3070 are a no-go. Someone in this thread mentioned you must have the Panny ouputting 4:4:4 12-bit and force the Netflix account preferences to High quality from Auto, but this makes no difference for me.
Yes, I've now come to believe, with certainty, that lack of Atmos from Netflix is AVR related. The dealer who sold me my UB820 tested a replacement in his store, using a Denon receiver, and sent me photos showing that Atmos was being received. He sent that UB820 to me, but Netflix only shows as DD 5.1 on my Yamaha RX-A3050 (running the current firmware version). Like you, I get Atmos from my ATV4K and UHD discs from the UB820. I have verified that this is not related to the individual AVR input, the Ethernet LAN port, or quality of HDMI cables (all certified 18-21Gb with UB820 set at 4:4:4). So, until someone with a Yamaha AVR posts that he's getting Atmos from Netflix, I guess I'll have to assume that Marantz/Denon's handshake enables Atmos and Yamaha owners are S.O.L.

EDIT: I found one poster on another forum board who said that he did receive Atmos from Netflix via a Yamaha RX-A3080.

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That’s awesome thanks I will load them and see what results I get for my setup. I know you specifically said to use with only the 820. Could I use these curves with my 203 outputting hdr2020. I have both players in my setup and was going thinking to use 820 with sdr2020 and 203 with hdr2020, let me know your thoughts


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These curves will only work properly if the source material was mapped for 500 nits. The UB820 can do that, but I have no idea what the OPPO does for tone mapping.
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post #3983 of 5119 Old 04-12-2019, 05:47 AM
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Yes, I've now come to believe, with certainty, that lack of Atmos from Netflix is AVR related. The dealer who sold me my UB820 tested a replacement in his store, using a Denon receiver, and sent me photos showing that Atmos was being received. He sent that UB820 to me, but Netflix only shows as DD 5.1 on my Yamaha RX-A3050 (running the current firmware version). Like you, I get Atmos from my ATV4K and UHD discs from the UB820. I have verified that this is not related to the individual AVR input, the Ethernet LAN port, or quality of HDMI cables (all certified 18-21Gb with UB820 set at 4:4:4). So, until someone with a Yamaha AVR posts that he's getting Atmos from Netflix, I guess I'll have to assume that Marantz/Denon's handshake enables Atmos and Yamaha owners are S.O.L.
Just to be clear when I demoed the UB9000 in the UK instore they had it connected to a Yamaha 3080 and Atmos was fine on Netflix, logo diaplayed and Yamaha showed it was receiving Atmos. When I got home it would not work with my 3050. The dealer offered to sell me the 3080 at cost, but was able to find a manufacturer refurbished 3070 at half this price, and already had a buyer for my 3050. Being that the only spec difference betwen my 3050 and 3070/3080 seemed to be DV passthur, I assumed the 3070 was worth the upgrade it otherwise futureprooofed my AVR at a very economical net upgrade price. There were also some quirks with the 3080 (removal of web gui, and no upmixing to DTS:X) according to reviews that were a downgrade. Alas the 3070 has the same issue with Panny Atmos streaming, yet all other Atmos devices offiicially supported by Netflix work fine (XB1X and ATV4K) in my AV chain.
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post #3984 of 5119 Old 04-12-2019, 06:39 AM
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That’s awesome thanks I will load them and see what results I get for my setup. I know you specifically said to use with only the 820. Could I use these curves with my 203 outputting hdr2020. I have both players in my setup and was going thinking to use 820 with sdr2020 and 203 with hdr2020, let me know your thoughts
No. The Oppo has no HDR Optimizer equivalent.

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Yes, I've now come to believe, with certainty, that lack of Atmos from Netflix is AVR related. The dealer who sold me my UB820 tested a replacement in his store, using a Denon receiver, and sent me photos showing that Atmos was being received. He sent that UB820 to me, but Netflix only shows as DD 5.1 on my Yamaha RX-A3050 (running the current firmware version). Like you, I get Atmos from my ATV4K and UHD discs from the UB820. I have verified that this is not related to the individual AVR input, the Ethernet LAN port, or quality of HDMI cables (all certified 18-21Gb with UB820 set at 4:4:4). So, until someone with a Yamaha AVR posts that he's getting Atmos from Netflix, I guess I'll have to assume that Marantz/Denon's handshake enables Atmos and Yamaha owners are S.O.L.



EDIT: I found one poster on another forum board who said that he did receive Atmos from Netflix via a Yamaha RX-A3080.

Well..i have denon x7200wa and no atmos. 4k is fine. Atv has no issue 4k with atmos but i want to use tone mapping from ub820.


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post #3986 of 5119 Old 04-12-2019, 06:51 AM
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Originally Posted by scrowe View Post
Just to be clear when I demoed the UB9000 in the UK instore they had it connected to a Yamaha 3080 and Atmos was fine on Netflix, logo diaplayed and Yamaha showed it was receiving Atmos. When I got home it would not work with my 3050. The dealer offered to sell me the 3080 at cost, but was able to find a manufacturer refurbished 3070 at half this price, and already had a buyer for my 3050. Being that the only spec difference betwen my 3050 and 3070/3080 seemed to be DV passthur, I assumed the 3070 was worth the upgrade it otherwise futureprooofed my AVR at a very economical net upgrade price. There were also some quirks with the 3080 (removal of web gui, and no upmixing to DTS:X) according to reviews that were a downgrade. Alas the 3070 has the same issue with Panny Atmos streaming, yet all other Atmos devices offiicially supported by Netflix work fine (XB1X and ATV4K) in my AV chain.
I just edited my prior post to indicate that the RX-A3080 apparently does perform Netflix Atmos from the UB820, according to your experience and a poster on another forum board that you also participate on. Although I've been a longtime Yamaha AVR supporter, I think that I may switch over to the Denon AVR-X6400 or 6500 since these AVRs don't seem to have the problem and they both support the Dolby DSU and DTS NeuralX processors. I haven't used any other Yamaha DSP modes for cinema since the arrival of the Dolby DSU & Neural X (I do still use them rarely for classical music & jazz), so I don't think that I'll miss that feature too much.
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post #3987 of 5119 Old 04-12-2019, 06:56 AM
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Can anyone confirm that they are receiving Atmos from Netflix from the UB820 via a Denon AVR-X6400H or X6500H? Thanks!

JVC NX7, Yamaha RX-A3080 (7.2.4 speaker layouts: Dolby Atmos & DTS:X), Panasonic UB820, Oppo 103D, ATV4K, Roku Ultra, TiVo Bolt Vox, Vandersteen Model 3 Signatures & VCC-1 Signature, SVS SB-2000 (2), Clark Synthesis Tactile Bass Transducers (2), Polk PSW-12
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post #3988 of 5119 Old 04-12-2019, 08:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by docrog View Post
Can anyone confirm that they are receiving Atmos from Netflix from the UB820 via a Denon AVR-X6400H or X6500H? Thanks!
Yes, with a X6400H.

UB820 > single HDMI out > X6400H > HDfury Vertex > JVCRS500.

I don't know if the Vertex makes a difference for me. When I get a chance I will remove it and test.

I have never tested using both HDMI outputs from the UB820 either.

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post #3989 of 5119 Old 04-12-2019, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
These curves will only work properly if the source material was mapped for 500 nits. The UB820 can do that, but I have no idea what the OPPO does for tone mapping.
I wish I could just load this to my Epson 5040, is there a curve or setting that would approximate 500 nits for us?
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post #3990 of 5119 Old 04-12-2019, 09:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by claw View Post
Yes, with a X6400H.

UB820 > single HDMI out > X6400H > HDfury Vertex > JVCRS500.

I don't know if the Vertex makes a difference for me. When I get a chance I will remove it and test.

I have never tested using both HDMI outputs from the UB820 either.
Thanks, as always, for your helpfulness. I'd greatly appreciate being certain that the X6400H works in its native state before I pull the trigger on replacing my (otherwise perfect) Yamaha RX-A3050.
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