Official Panasonic DP-UB820/824 Owner's Thread (No Price Talk) - Page 134 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #3991 of 5162 Old 04-12-2019, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by monkaquinas View Post
I wish I could just load this to my Epson 5040, is there a curve or setting that would approximate 500 nits for us?
The Epson HDR2 mode is supposed to be for 500 nits:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/68-di...l#post57878044
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Last edited by Dominic Chan; 04-12-2019 at 09:57 AM.
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post #3992 of 5162 Old 04-12-2019, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
The Epson HDR2 mode is supposed to be for 500 nits:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/68-di...l#post57878044
Hmm, I wonder if this explains why Optimizer-off looked best to me in my previous pics. I was using Auto Bright (HDR1). I'll try HDR2 tonight. But what exactly should look better when outputting in SDR2020, as opposed to HDR2020? Is it just brighter highlights? I'm trying to figure out what I should look for in various scenes.

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post #3993 of 5162 Old 04-12-2019, 01:24 PM
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The effect of the HDR Optimizer depends significantly on the disk and the nit level at which it was mastered. I have a SONY projector and run in the SDR/BT.2020 mode with the 820’s TV Type set to basic luminance/projector that sets the target nit level to 500. I then use +5 or +6 on Dynamic Range slider to further lower the target nit level to about 400 which seems right for my projector/screen combination. The idea is that now with the HDR Optimizer ON, the 820 will tone map disks to my target nit level, ideally based on the HDR meta data on the disk.

When I was first exploring the effect of HDR Optimizer, I was using the Wonder Woman UHD disk that was mastered at 1000 nits. What I found was that I could use the Dynamic Range slider to control the how bright the average scene appeared, but the HDR Optimizer On/Off had little or no effect on most scenes. I did report earlier in this thread however, that with this movie, the On setting did do a better job of avoiding clipping of the brightest areas of certain scenes, e.g. when Steve’s plane is sinking and he is looking back at the surface.

With the US (Warner Bros.) version of Blade Runner 2049, it was a very different story. This Disk was mastered at 10,000 nits and when I first watched it on my OPPO 203 without tone mapping, most scenes seemed much darker that they should be. With the 820 in the SDR/BT.2020 mode however I found that the HDR Optimizer On significantly brightened up every scene. With the Optimizer set to off every scene darkened noticeably.

So, except for the cases when a disk has erroneous HDR meta data, having the HDR Optimizer On seems to be a good thing as it seems to correctly tone map the brightness of a range for disks to my projector without the need to fiddle with different setting for each movie.
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post #3994 of 5162 Old 04-12-2019, 04:12 PM
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Is the 2020 instead of Auto HDR optimizer on preferred to be best for projectors only or OLED/TV as well?
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post #3995 of 5162 Old 04-12-2019, 05:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
It may be your Sony projector that’s boosting the brightness when receiving lower nits (Optimize On). I have not seen that happen on my JVC X750 which has fixed curves (although I don’t have that disc to test).
Let me clarify. With Blade Runner 2049, with Optimizer ON, the 820 uses the metadata on the disk to know that the movie was mastered at a very high nit value, 10,000 nits, and needed significant tone mapping to display properly on my projector. The result looked very good. With the optimizer Off, it was very similar to what I remember it looked like with no Tone mapping on my OPPO 203, a very dark picture (in several ways!). I believe that with the Optimizer OFF, rather than use the HDR meta data on the disk, 10,000 nits in this case, it uses a default 1000 nits, and thus does not properly tone map the 10,000 nit mastered movie to my projector. As I understand it, the only time that the Optimizer Off makes sense is when the meta data on the disk is not correct.

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post #3996 of 5162 Old 04-12-2019, 05:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shs1234 View Post
I believe that with the Optimizer OFF, rather than use the HDR meta data on the disk, 10,000 nits in this case, it uses a default 1000 nits, and thus does not properly tone map the 10,000 nit mastered movie to my projector.
According to this post by @claw , if the Optimizer is turned off the UB820 performs no tone mapping:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/149-b...l#post57863808
Quote:
In HDR output mode and the HDR Optimizer turned OFF, the C8 will received the HDR content untouched.
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post #3997 of 5162 Old 04-12-2019, 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
According to this post by @claw , if the Optimizer is turned off the UB820 performs no tone mapping:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/149-b...l#post57863808


So what about output display types, doesn’t that map to specific nit levels e.g projector been 500nits or am I missing something


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post #3998 of 5162 Old 04-12-2019, 05:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
According to this post by @claw , if the Optimizer is turned off the UB820 performs no tone mapping:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/149-b...l#post57863808
I thought that was in the HDR mode, but in the SDR BT.2020 mode, IIRC, the brightness of the picture does respond to the Dynamic Range slider with the Optimizer Off, and therefore it would seem that the 820 is doing tone mapping, albeit in this case using default meta data.

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post #3999 of 5162 Old 04-12-2019, 05:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shs1234 View Post
I thought that was in the HDR mode, but in the SDR BT.2020 mode, IIRC, the brightness of the picture does respond to the Dynamic Range slider with the Optimizer Off, and therefore it would seem that the 820 is doing tone mapping, albeit in this case using default meta data.
That is correct. I didn’t realize you were referring to the SDR2020 mode, in which case the UB820 always need to tone-map.
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post #4000 of 5162 Old 04-12-2019, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by johnnyboy632 View Post
So what about output display types, doesn’t that map to specific nit levels e.g projector been 500nits or am I missing something


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In the HDR mode the output display type is ignored if the Optimizer is turned off.
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post #4001 of 5162 Old 04-12-2019, 06:05 PM
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The output display type is also ignored in SDR2020 mode. It only functions in the HDR mode with optimizer on.
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post #4002 of 5162 Old 04-12-2019, 08:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeganElisabeth View Post
Is the 2020 instead of Auto HDR optimizer on preferred to be best for projectors only or OLED/TV as well?
I would also like to see a response to this question

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post #4003 of 5162 Old 04-12-2019, 09:15 PM
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In SDR/BT2020 mode and the Optimizer is turned OFF, the UB820 defaults to a 1000 nit tone map.

In SDR/BT2020 mode and the Optimizer is turned ON, the UB820 uses the MaxDML and MaxCLL HDR metadata values to adjust the tone mapping. If MaxDML and MaxCLL are both zero, the UB820 again defaults to a 1000 nit tone map.

It is the 4000 nit (and 10,000 nit) titles where the HDR Optimzer can really make a difference.

In either case, Optimizer ON or OFF, the HDR Display Type setting is ignored in SDR/BT2020 mode.

You will not see a change in the output metadata values in the UB820 information screen when in SDR/BT2020 mode. The values seem to be just copied from the input source metadata. They would not be useful to a HDR TV/Projector anyway since HDR metadata is only used when performing HDR input tone mapping, not when displaying SDR input.

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post #4004 of 5162 Old 04-12-2019, 09:57 PM
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Hello everyone, I am going to be asking some basic questions and hope I can get some guidance. I have been reading about 50 pages worth here and the more I read the more I get confused. Here is my story.

I have the JVC 4910 and had my oppo 103. This was straight forward 1080p and I was happy. Then the Dolby Atmos fever bit me and I upgraded my receiver to Denon 6500h and also picked up the 820 along the way.

I know the JVC 4910 has the eshift and though I can give 4K a try. I am going nuts with all the terms thrown around.

Today I rented Aquaman 4K UHD physical media. When I played it and clicked on info on the JVC it shows source as 1080p - this is the first that threw me off.

Combining the 820 and my 4910 but is the best settings for me to take advantage of what these two combinations has to offer. It would be great if you can guide me here.

I assume I cannot do any HDR since my JVC does not support any of that. What is the setting for me to use on 820 to use it for my 4K eshift.

Any help is very much appreciated. If there is a post that already has this information please do point me to it.

Thanks in advance !
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post #4005 of 5162 Old 04-12-2019, 10:28 PM
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Originally Posted by jollyguy23 View Post
Hello everyone, I am going to be asking some basic questions and hope I can get some guidance. I have been reading about 50 pages worth here and the more I read the more I get confused. Here is my story.

I have the JVC 4910 and had my oppo 103. This was straight forward 1080p and I was happy. Then the Dolby Atmos fever bit me and I upgraded my receiver to Denon 6500h and also picked up the 820 along the way.

I know the JVC 4910 has the eshift and though I can give 4K a try. I am going nuts with all the terms thrown around.

Today I rented Aquaman 4K UHD physical media. When I played it and clicked on info on the JVC it shows source as 1080p - this is the first that threw me off.

Combining the 820 and my 4910 but is the best settings for me to take advantage of what these two combinations has to offer. It would be great if you can guide me here.

I assume I cannot do any HDR since my JVC does not support any of that. What is the setting for me to use on 820 to use it for my 4K eshift.

Any help is very much appreciated. If there is a post that already has this information please do point me to it.

Thanks in advance !
You should check in the RS4910 owners thread to determine how to load a BT2020 color profile. I believe the same JVC provided profile I loaded to my RS500 can be loaded to the 4910 but you should check the 4910 owners thread. Lots of discussion there.

Once you have the BT2020 profile loaded to your RS4910, you can set the UB820 to SDR/BT2020 mode and turn the HDR Optimizer ON. I use SDR/BT2020 mode with my RS500.

I don't think you will need an HDfury device to get the UB820 to send 4K SDR/BT2020 to your RS4910. It was needed for the UB900 player. You might want to ask that in the RS4910 owners thread as well.

Until you get the BT2020 profile loaded, you could try setting the UB820 to SDR/BT709 output mode with HDR Optimizer turned ON and see if you get 4K from the player. Finally, press the Option button on the remote to adjust the Dynamic Range Conversion Adj. to brighten the picture if needed or to lower the brightness to get more contrast. The bigger your screen, the more likely you might need to increase the brightness a bit.

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Last edited by claw; 04-12-2019 at 11:33 PM.
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post #4006 of 5162 Old 04-13-2019, 02:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Clark Burk View Post
The output display type is also ignored in SDR2020 mode. It only functions in the HDR mode with optimizer on.


Would there be any benefit from using the Optimizer with sdr2020 setup?


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post #4007 of 5162 Old 04-13-2019, 03:46 AM
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Originally Posted by jollyguy23 View Post
Then the Dolby Atmos fever bit me and I upgraded my receiver to Denon 6500h and also picked up the 820 along the way.
Do you subscribe to Netflix with the 4K/UHD package? If so, could you please confirm whether or not your X6500H shows that you are receiving Dolby Atmos for appropriate titles (such as "The Highwaymen") or only DD 5.1 via the UB820's Netflix app? I've been asking for confirmation of this question, without success. Thanks!
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post #4008 of 5162 Old 04-13-2019, 05:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyboy632 View Post
Would there be any benefit from using the Optimizer with sdr2020 setup?
Yes, see post 4003 above
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/149-b...l#post57895012

Last edited by Dominic Chan; 04-13-2019 at 05:29 AM.
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post #4009 of 5162 Old 04-13-2019, 05:37 AM
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Can anyone confirm that they are receiving Atmos from Netflix from the UB820 via a Denon AVR-X6400H or X6500H? Thanks!
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Yes, with a X6400H.

UB820 > single HDMI out > X6400H > HDfury Vertex > JVCRS500.

I don't know if the Vertex makes a difference for me. When I get a chance I will remove it and test.

I have never tested using both HDMI outputs from the UB820 either.
FWIW... works on x6300H as well.

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post #4010 of 5162 Old 04-13-2019, 11:52 AM
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FWIW... works on x6300H as well.
Thanks for that input! I guess it's appropriate to assume that the X6400/6500 would also be compatible.
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post #4011 of 5162 Old 04-13-2019, 08:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by claw View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by jollyguy23 View Post
Hello everyone, I am going to be asking some basic questions and hope I can get some guidance. I have been reading about 50 pages worth here and the more I read the more I get confused. Here is my story.

I have the JVC 4910 and had my oppo 103. This was straight forward 1080p and I was happy. Then the Dolby Atmos fever bit me and I upgraded my receiver to Denon 6500h and also picked up the 820 along the way.

I know the JVC 4910 has the eshift and though I can give 4K a try. I am going nuts with all the terms thrown around.

Today I rented Aquaman 4K UHD physical media. When I played it and clicked on info on the JVC it shows source as 1080p - this is the first that threw me off.

Combining the 820 and my 4910 but is the best settings for me to take advantage of what these two combinations has to offer. It would be great if you can guide me here.

I assume I cannot do any HDR since my JVC does not support any of that. What is the setting for me to use on 820 to use it for my 4K eshift.

Any help is very much appreciated. If there is a post that already has this information please do point me to it.

Thanks in advance !
You should check in the RS4910 owners thread to determine how to load a BT2020 color profile. I believe the same JVC provided profile I loaded to my RS500 can be loaded to the 4910 but you should check the 4910 owners thread. Lots of discussion there.

Once you have the BT2020 profile loaded to your RS4910, you can set the UB820 to SDR/BT2020 mode and turn the HDR Optimizer ON. I use SDR/BT2020 mode with my RS500.

I don't think you will need an HDfury device to get the UB820 to send 4K SDR/BT2020 to your RS4910. It was needed for the UB900 player. You might want to ask that in the RS4910 owners thread as well.

Until you get the BT2020 profile loaded, you could try setting the UB820 to SDR/BT709 output mode with HDR Optimizer turned ON and see if you get 4K from the player. Finally, press the Option button on the remote to adjust the Dynamic Range Conversion Adj. to brighten the picture if needed or to lower the brightness to get more contrast. The bigger your screen, the more likely you might need to increase the brightness a bit.
I run a 4910 and ub820. I have an hdfury integral and I'm pretty sure you need it to send 4k bt2020. Otherwise it will only send 1080p rec709.

You do need to load the jvc bt2020 profile using the jvc autocal software. Run a gamma of 2.4.

On the ub820, set output to sdr bt2020, 12 bit priority. You should then get 4k bt2020 12 bit 4:2:2. The 4910 will show 4k 8bit xy color.

Turn the optimizer on. I use low lamp mode, dynamic range adjustment at +5, dark tone adjustment at -4 and bright tone adjustment at -2.

This has worked great on my 4910 and ub820.
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post #4012 of 5162 Old 04-13-2019, 09:19 PM
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Thank you Claw for your reply. I will then look into getting the BT2020 first uploaded and also will pick this up

https://www.hdfury.com/product/integral-2/

I will update here once I have this working.

I assume the chain here is 820 -> Denon 6500-> HD Fury-> JVC 4910.
If you have a UB820 and the Denon X6500, could you please check Netflix to see if you are able to get audio as Dolby Atmos? Thanks!
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post #4013 of 5162 Old 04-13-2019, 10:14 PM
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This might be a dumb question, but my only 4k experience is a Sony projector, and one thing that is irritating with the Pana and projector is the player outputs bt709, and the projector shows it detects 709, but I have to manually swap between 2020 and 709. Is it the same on TVs? It makes no sense.
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post #4014 of 5162 Old 04-14-2019, 03:43 AM
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Love the UB820, just got one.

So I’m watching Blue Planet II Disc 2 Episode 5 “Green Seas” and for some reason the Panasonic says it’s outputting at 1080/24p. The picture definetly looks 4K crispy but when I tried using the HDR optimiser, that’s when I noticed it because it said “optimiser only works with hdr content”.

What would be the issue? Because I’m pretty sure last episode on that disc, I used the optimiser and it worked. I also just checked a few other HDR discs and same issue. I’ve changed no settings since I last used it.

The UB820 is connected to an SJ9 soundbar passthrough to hdmi arc to lg oled b7. HDMI deep colour space is activated for that hdmi Input.
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post #4015 of 5162 Old 04-14-2019, 04:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curlyjive View Post
I run a 4910 and ub820. I have an hdfury integral and I'm pretty sure you need it to send 4k bt2020. Otherwise it will only send 1080p rec709.

You do need to load the jvc bt2020 profile using the jvc autocal software. Run a gamma of 2.4.

On the ub820, set output to sdr bt2020, 12 bit priority. You should then get 4k bt2020 12 bit 4:2:2. The 4910 will show 4k 8bit xy color.

Turn the optimizer on. I use low lamp mode, dynamic range adjustment at +5, dark tone adjustment at -4 and bright tone adjustment at -2.

This has worked great on my 4910 and ub820.

Thank you for your reply. I will then look into getting the BT2020 first uploaded and also will pick this up

https://www.hdfury.com/product/integral-2/

I will update here once I have this working.

I assume the chain here is 820 -> Denon 6500-> HD Fury-> JVC 4910? I am not sure I got this chain figured out.
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post #4016 of 5162 Old 04-14-2019, 06:55 AM
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Originally Posted by cv15xbmc View Post
Love the UB820, just got one.

So I’m watching Blue Planet II Disc 2 Episode 5 “Green Seas” and for some reason the Panasonic says it’s outputting at 1080/24p. The picture definetly looks 4K crispy but when I tried using the HDR optimiser, that’s when I noticed it because it said “optimiser only works with hdr content”.

What would be the issue? Because I’m pretty sure last episode on that disc, I used the optimiser and it worked. I also just checked a few other HDR discs and same issue. I’ve changed no settings since I last used it.

The UB820 is connected to an SJ9 soundbar passthrough to hdmi arc to lg oled b7. HDMI deep colour space is activated for that hdmi Input.
I would suggest you try hooking the 820 directly to the B7 and see if that fixes it. If it does you know then that the soundbar is causing the problem.

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post #4017 of 5162 Old 04-14-2019, 07:09 AM
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My Sony UBP-UX80 has had way too many issues and I know the Panasonics get good reviews.

Is there a successor to the UB820 in the works or would it still be a solid purchase at this point in time?

Last edited by teachsac; 04-14-2019 at 07:54 AM. Reason: Pricing
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post #4018 of 5162 Old 04-14-2019, 09:14 AM
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I highly doubt there will be a new player anytime soon. Absolute earliest a new one would even be announced would be next ces, but I doubt even that.

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post #4019 of 5162 Old 04-14-2019, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cv15xbmc View Post
Love the UB820, just got one.

So I’m watching Blue Planet II Disc 2 Episode 5 “Green Seas” and for some reason the Panasonic says it’s outputting at 1080/24p. The picture definetly looks 4K crispy but when I tried using the HDR optimiser, that’s when I noticed it because it said “optimiser only works with hdr content”.

What would be the issue? Because I’m pretty sure last episode on that disc, I used the optimiser and it worked. I also just checked a few other HDR discs and same issue. I’ve changed no settings since I last used it.

The UB820 is connected to an SJ9 soundbar passthrough to hdmi arc to lg oled b7. HDMI deep colour space is activated for that hdmi Input.
Try going directly UB820 to LG Oled B7. I suspect the 820 does not recognize your set as being 4K capable because of the soundbar.

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post #4020 of 5162 Old 04-14-2019, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark Burk View Post
I would suggest you try hooking the 820 directly to the B7 and see if that fixes it. If it does you know then that the soundbar is causing the problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.G View Post
Try going directly UB820 to LG Oled B7. I suspect the 820 does not recognize your set as being 4K capable because of the soundbar.
Randomly tried it again this morning and everything worked? Super weird. When it displayed 1080 though the picture was still unreal, I just didn’t have any HDR options.
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