Official Panasonic DP-UB820/824 Owner's Thread (No Price Talk) - Page 135 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #4021 of 5103 Old 04-14-2019, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by cv15xbmc View Post
Randomly tried it again this morning and everything worked? Super weird. When it displayed 1080 though the picture was still unreal, I just didn’t have any HDR options.
I had a similar experience where when getting ready to have people over for a movie night, I checked out the DVD I was going to play the day before, and although it was 4K, it was also BT.709 and didn't look quite right. I tried all the settings, and somehow ended up with 1080p as the best I could do. Panic! I turned the system off and posted my dilemma here. The next day, I tried again and all was well, 4K and BT.2020 and movie night went well. I suspect that somehow it was a bad handshake/EDID misunderstanding that went away when I brought up the system the next time.

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post #4022 of 5103 Old 04-14-2019, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by MOberhardt View Post
This might be a dumb question, but my only 4k experience is a Sony projector, and one thing that is irritating with the Pana and projector is the player outputs bt709, and the projector shows it detects 709, but I have to manually swap between 2020 and 709. Is it the same on TVs? It makes no sense.
I run the 820 on my Sony 885/760 and it has no problem with the BT2020. Which projector are you using? And what options have you chosen for the HDR optimiser?

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post #4023 of 5103 Old 04-14-2019, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by vollans View Post
I run the 820 on my Sony 885/760 and it has no problem with the BT2020. Which projector are you using? And what options have you chosen for the HDR optimiser?
A 675/550.

I mean on the projector, the color space is a manual setting. I don't understand why. I have HDR auto off on the projector so I'm not having the projector select the ridiculous internal curve, but I don't understand why it isn't smart enough to just select the color space based on what the color space is. I can see in the manual that if HDR auto is on I believe it will, but not if the Pana is outputting SDR2020. It is illogical
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post #4024 of 5103 Old 04-14-2019, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by MOberhardt View Post
A 675/550.
Would it be easier to use one of the projector’s modes (e.g. user or one of the film modes) as your BT2020 mode? I’m not familiar with the 675, so I can’t help specifically with it, but with my 760 I have one projector mode specifically tweaked to get the best out of BT2020 rather than trying to make one setting work for all.

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post #4025 of 5103 Old 04-14-2019, 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted by vollans View Post
Would it be easier to use one of the projector’s modes (e.g. user or one of the film modes) as your BT2020 mode? I’m not familiar with the 675, so I can’t help specifically with it, but with my 760 I have one projector mode specifically tweaked to get the best out of BT2020 rather than trying to make one setting work for all.
Yes, I do that, and have my harmony programmed to do that on the activities. Problem is though it sometimes keep missing that step, or it does it before the projector warms up, and sometimes I've been watching the movie for a bit, thinking the image is a little dull, then I realize it is still in 709 mode... :P The lack of auto swap is probably more annoying on the Apple tv where you don't actually know for a show what color space it is outputting without bringing the signal details up on the projector... At least with the Panasonic I know if i'm playing blu ray it is 709, UHD 2020...
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post #4026 of 5103 Old 04-15-2019, 02:47 AM
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Is the ub820 useless for Projector owners?

I own the Sony vpl-vw295es, whose HDR is not so great. So when I received the 820, I set output to SDR/2020, HDR optimizer ON and display type to basic/projector. I expected this would target a low number of nits (300-500), knowing that projectors in general are quite lacking in the area.

But from what is written here I understand that the SDR target is 1000 nits no matter what display type is specified! And indeed, trying to turn on/off the HDR optimiser for a 1000 nits movie doesn't show any difference.

Thus it seems that the 820 is sending and 1000-nits image to my projector which is woefully unable to display it...

Does that mean the 820 is worse than useless?

Thanks!
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post #4027 of 5103 Old 04-15-2019, 03:10 AM
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Originally Posted by CataR View Post
Is the ub820 useless for Projector owners?

I own the Sony vpl-vw295es, whose HDR is not so great. So when I received the 820, I set output to SDR/2020, HDR optimizer ON and display type to basic/projector. I expected this would target a low number of nits (300-500), knowing that projectors in general are quite lacking in the area.

But from what is written here I understand that the SDR target is 1000 nits no matter what display type is specified! And indeed, trying to turn on/off the HDR optimiser for a 1000 nits movie doesn't show any difference.

Thus it seems that the 820 is sending and 1000-nits image to my projector which is woefully unable to display it...

Does that mean the 820 is worse than useless?

Thanks!
I think the issue is when outputting sdr2020, the metadata info page is just wrong, and says input and output are the same. So 4k nits like Mad Max you are seeing identical in and out. But it apparently isn't, and is apparently mapping to 200 or so nits. I really don't know. But it looks as good and is also adjustable as running a custom curve on the projector.

But if you output hdr2020, the metadata page works and you see difference on the output, so if you have basic luminance projector you then see 350 nits out. I need to do some more playing about, with the HDR out, but whenever I have used it. It looks faded with the optimizer on. Default settings.. I'm probably doing something wrong, but I'm pretty happy with the results on SDR2020 out, optimizer on, that I haven't spent more time frustrating myself, especially as changing those modes requires stopping and starting a disc... It just irritates me that the sdr2020 output breaks the metadata info page.
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post #4028 of 5103 Old 04-15-2019, 04:49 AM
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Originally Posted by MOberhardt View Post
It just irritates me that the sdr2020 output breaks the metadata info page.
The metadata is only used for HDR10 (and “above”). In SDR mode the TV/Projector does not do anything with the metadata, so there’s really no meaningful value the player can display under the output column in the Info screen.
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Last edited by Dominic Chan; 04-15-2019 at 05:38 AM.
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post #4029 of 5103 Old 04-15-2019, 06:40 AM
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Originally Posted by CataR View Post
Is the ub820 useless for Projector owners?

I own the Sony vpl-vw295es, whose HDR is not so great. So when I received the 820, I set output to SDR/2020, HDR optimizer ON and display type to basic/projector. I expected this would target a low number of nits (300-500), knowing that projectors in general are quite lacking in the area.

But from what is written here I understand that the SDR target is 1000 nits no matter what display type is specified! And indeed, trying to turn on/off the HDR optimiser for a 1000 nits movie doesn't show any difference.

Thus it seems that the 820 is sending and 1000-nits image to my projector which is woefully unable to display it...

Does that mean the 820 is worse than useless?

Thanks!
This is almost exactly the opposite of what’s correct. I would say the UB820 works best for projectors. I’m not sure where you are getting your information from but it’s almost all incorrect. Fortunately, configured correctly it should look great!

Basic/projector on the UB820 is 500 nits (the UB9000 has a 350 nits option) and if you truly have your 820 set to SDR2020, Optimizer On, Display Type to basic/projector, and your projector set to gamma 2.4 & BT2020 chosen, you should see a definite improvement.

Verify your projector settings and compare to your old player...what are your eyes telling you?
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post #4030 of 5103 Old 04-15-2019, 07:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Dreamliner View Post
Basic/projector on the UB820 is 500 nits (the UB9000 has a 350 nits option) and if you truly have your 820 set to SDR2020, Optimizer On, Display Type to basic/projector, and your projector set to gamma 2.4 & BT2020 chosen, you should see a definite improvement.
In SDR2020 mode the display type setting is ignored. See the following post:
Quote:
Originally Posted by claw View Post
In either case, Optimizer ON or OFF, the HDR Display Type setting is ignored in SDR/BT2020 mode.
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post #4031 of 5103 Old 04-15-2019, 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by CataR View Post
Is the ub820 useless for Projector owners?

I own the Sony vpl-vw295es, whose HDR is not so great. So when I received the 820, I set output to SDR/2020, HDR optimizer ON and display type to basic/projector. I expected this would target a low number of nits (300-500), knowing that projectors in general are quite lacking in the area.

But from what is written here I understand that the SDR target is 1000 nits no matter what display type is specified! And indeed, trying to turn on/off the HDR optimiser for a 1000 nits movie doesn't show any difference.

Thus it seems that the 820 is sending and 1000-nits image to my projector which is woefully unable to display it...

Does that mean the 820 is worse than useless?

Thanks!
A 1000 nit based tone map does not mean you are getting 1000 nit SDR output.
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Originally Posted by claw View Post
Yes, with a X6400H.

UB820 > single HDMI out > X6400H > HDfury Vertex > JVCRS500.

I don't know if the Vertex makes a difference for me. When I get a chance I will remove it and test.

I have never tested using both HDMI outputs from the UB820 either.
Were you able to test whether or not you got Netflix Atmos from your X6400H & the UB820 app WITHOUT the Vertex? Thanks, again!
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post #4033 of 5103 Old 04-15-2019, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
In SDR2020 mode the display type setting is ignored. See the following post:
Interesting. Either way, it's pretty obvious SDR2020 usually has much more overall brightness than HDR, especially on projectors. If display type really is ignored, then I really don't see any reason to get a UB9000 if I am using SDR2020.
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post #4034 of 5103 Old 04-15-2019, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Dreamliner View Post
Interesting. Either way, it's pretty obvious SDR2020 usually has much more overall brightness than HDR, especially on projectors. If display type really is ignored, then I really don't see any reason to get a UB9000 if I am using SDR2020.
True. The HDR Optimizer in the UB9000 and UB820 will work the same for SDR/BT2020 output mode.
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post #4035 of 5103 Old 04-15-2019, 08:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CataR View Post
Is the ub820 useless for Projector owners?

I own the Sony vpl-vw295es, whose HDR is not so great. So when I received the 820, I set output to SDR/2020, HDR optimizer ON and display type to basic/projector. I expected this would target a low number of nits (300-500), knowing that projectors in general are quite lacking in the area.

But from what is written here I understand that the SDR target is 1000 nits no matter what display type is specified! And indeed, trying to turn on/off the HDR optimiser for a 1000 nits movie doesn't show any difference.

Thus it seems that the 820 is sending and 1000-nits image to my projector which is woefully unable to display it...

Does that mean the 820 is worse than useless?

Thanks!
See my post #3993 above. The effect of the optimizer varies significantly with the disk and how it was mastered. In the SDR/2020 mode, with the Optimizer on, the 820 uses the meta data on the disk to guide the tone mapping. With it off, it uses a default value of 1000 nits. So for a disk that is mastered at 1000 nits, Optimizer On or Off has almost no effect on most scenes. I have seem some differences in highlights. On the other hand if the disk is mastered at 4,000 or 10,000 nits, Optimizer On/Off makes a big difference in overall brightness of the image. In both cases however the resultant data stream to the projector has been tone mapped to an appropriate level (and gamma) so that the image will not look dim as is typically the case with a projector displaying HDR without tone mapping.

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Last edited by shs1234; 04-15-2019 at 08:59 AM.
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post #4036 of 5103 Old 04-15-2019, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by claw View Post
True. The HDR Optimizer in the UB9000 and UB820 will work the same for SDR/BT2020 output mode.
Now I'm even more curious to see an unbiased SDR2020 vs HDR comparison on a NX7 with a UB820/UB9000.

SDR2020 vs 350 nits HDR vs 500 nits HDR.
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post #4037 of 5103 Old 04-15-2019, 09:52 AM
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Please Wait message will not go away

Have had the player since Sept. 2018 connected to Sony 85” TV with no problem. Recently got the PLEASE WAIT scrolling msg. Tried most common things, pulled plug, let it sit for 2 days, replaced HDMI cable - nothing works. Hooked up old DVD player into same setup - no problems.

Has anyone experienced this problem? Any solutions, suggestions? TIA
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post #4038 of 5103 Old 04-15-2019, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Glass2 View Post
Have had the player since Sept. 2018 connected to Sony 85” TV with no problem. Recently got the PLEASE WAIT scrolling msg. Tried most common things, pulled plug, let it sit for 2 days, replaced HDMI cable - nothing works. Hooked up old DVD player into same setup - no problems.

Has anyone experienced this problem? Any solutions, suggestions? TIA
The return player to factory defaults may work if it’s responsive. Try this:

1. Turn the unit on.
2. Press and hold [OK], the [Y - Yellow] button and the [B - Blue] button on the remote control at the same time for more than 5 seconds. “00 RET” is displayed on the unit’s display.
3. Press [►] right repeatedly on the remote control until “08 FIN” is displayed on the unit’s display.
4. Press and hold [OK] for more than 5 seconds.

If this doesn’t work it sounds like your player may need service.
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post #4039 of 5103 Old 04-15-2019, 11:49 AM
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Subtitle Setting

The UB820 “forgets” the subtitle setting evert time you do something - stop and resume, change HDR settings etc. seems like a bug to me.
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post #4040 of 5103 Old 04-15-2019, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
The UB820 “forgets” the subtitle setting evert time you do something - stop and resume, change HDR settings etc. seems like a bug to me.
You mean if I pause the movie to get a snack, and come back, I have to reset subtitle settings? That stinks!

I actually just ordered one to use with my RS400, anticipating somewhat better results with SDR-2020 compared to my decent, but not ideal, custom gamma curves. I was looking forward to being able to shift subtitles, change luminance, etc. I understood it wouldn't stick from movie to movie, but if it doesn't stick *within* a single movie watching, that's pretty bad, and I agree that it should be called a bug.

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post #4041 of 5103 Old 04-15-2019, 01:15 PM
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UB820 vs. LG UBK90 for LG OLED

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreamliner View Post
I would say the UB820 works best for projectors.
This seems to be the conclusion I have come to after performing the test quoted below.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ibrewmination View Post
I purchased an LG UBK90 last week to accompany my LG OLED65B7P. After putting in a Man of Steel 1080p bluray, I was very dissatisfied with the upscaling. It looked worse than it did when played on my old Sony bluray player hooked up my LG OLED, meaning it appeared the LG OLED upscaling was better than the DVD player’s. Being that there is no way to turn off the upscaling on the UBK90 and that I’m giving my old HTIB to my in-laws, this is annoying for the remainder of my collection.
I’ve also learned about the UBD820’s tone-mapping capabilities and am curious if I’d see diminishing returns/competing interests in that regard when coupled with the LG OLEDs capabilities for the price.
Asked a similar question on the UBK90 Owner’s thread with no response.
So, having about six days to return the UBK90, I’ve ordered the UBD820 to compare the two (almost) side-by-side. I will compare upscaling and dynamic range/PQ of the two. The only 4K DVDs I own thus far are “Into the Spiderverse” and “Dynasties.” I will likely borrow a friend’s copy of “Into the Spiderverse” for direct comparison.
I’m pretty new to all this so am looking for advice on how to test the two platforms, comparatively (i.e. what settings to use, test pictures to view, scenes to examine, etc.). I am a Netflix <edited> member, so I can view the Altered Carbon scene referenced in an earlier post <2nd episode: 47 second mark>.
With what limited time I had over the weekend, I performed as much comparative examination as I could with “Spiderman: Into the Spiderverse,” “Man of Steel,” and “The Hobbit.” “Man of Steel” had a very useful “Pacific Rim” preview that I utilized as well, with several snow and rain scenes, which are apparently(?) notorious for causing imaging problems.
I also viewed the scene from Altered Carbon, in still frame, mentioned above.
Findings:
Upscaling
Man of Steel (1080p) has a considerable amount of grain and is not shot very well in certain scenes, such as those out at sea.
While upscaling of Man of Steel was slightly better on the UB820 resulting in less grain and better picture for out-at-sea scenes, upscaling on the UBK90 was not as poor (or noticeably different) as originally thought.
No notable difference was found in upscaling of the Hobbit, upon cursory examination of the scene revealing Smaug’s missing scale.
The UB820 revealed more clarity of detail in the upscaling of snow and rain scenes in the Pacific Rim preview, though likely not as noticeable to the less discerning eye.
Image Quality
Spiderman: Into the Spiderverse, mastered @ 4000 nits, showed no readily perceivable differences between players in motion scenes. Special attention was paid to inter-dimensional scenes, Miles getting bit and the morning after at school, The Prowler and Miles’ scene in the apartment, pearlescent reflections in Parker Spiderman’s and Spiderwoman’s eyes in the bread scene, and the final battle. The largest perceivable difference was in the title menu; Miles’ spider symbol in the middle of his chest seemed slightly brighter/more vibrant on the UB820 while slightly (almost imperceptibly) diminishing small variances in shades of red within that symbol. Red seemed slightly brighter on action scenes throughout, upon noting this.
A bug slowing the connection of the UBK90 to the internet (had trouble connecting to the wired internet) prevented me from examining Altered Carbon to the extent desired, but upon cursory examination, there seemed to be little, if any, difference of the 2nd Episode, 47th second image.
User Interface
UB820 was the clear, obvious, and widely known winner, both aesthetically and functionally. Though, the functionality of such an in-depth user interface seems rendered obsolete with the high functionality of the LG OLED65B7P’s user interface.
Functionality
The UB820 was peculiarly more sensitive to dirt/abrasions. Man of steel froze in one spot, a small, fine scratch, remedied without skipping content once the “forward” button was pressed on the remote. There have been no freezes or interruptions in video playback on any content yet played on the UBK90.
The UBK90 will randomly turn on. Also, while previewing content on the UB820 with the UBK90 on, the Marantz receiver would automatically, and seemingly at random, switch input to the UBK90 without any content playing on the UBK90.
The UB820, freezing upon stopping of a DVD (display said “STOP” yet no image broadcasted), was turned off and on several times trying to regain image. The second time it was turned on and off, the display came on as green with a multi-colored vertical band through the screen. After unplugging it for 15 seconds and plugging it back in, player resumed normal function.
As mentioned previously, the UBK90 experienced some difficulty finding the wired network after switching from wi-fi.
Sound
No perceivable difference was noted in the sound quality of any content played. No audio CDs or other strictly audio formats were used as comparisons. Content was listened to using Audyssey XT32, Flat response, all other options (e.g. Dynamic Audio, etc.) off.
In Conclusion
Based upon my comparisons, the equipment chosen by those most active in this forum (most of the UB820 owners seem to be seeking the tone-mapping for use on their projectors with <1000 nit capabilities), feedback to projector-related issues/questions on this forum, and lack of feedback to OLED-related issues/questions on this forum, it would appear there is no sufficient perceivable difference between the UBK90 and the UB820 to warrant the additional $300 expenditure for use with an LG OLED65B7P.

Since the tone-mapping ability of the UB820 is one of the three features (along with upscaling and hi-def sound?) supposedly setting it apart, the LG OLED65B7P is already rated at around 1,000 nits, Into the Spiderverse was mastered at 4,000 nits, and the difference in PQ between players on Into the Spiderverse is de minimis; my only remaining question would be whether there is a perceivable difference in the tone-mapping of a movie mastered at 10,000 nits vs. 4,000 or 1,000 when viewed on this display.
If time allows (which is unlikely) and if it is available at Redbox, I would like to rent a 4K Blade Runner 2049, mastered at 10,000 nits, to view on both players. Today is the final day to return the UBK90, so I will likely be keeping it, returning the UB820, and using some of the money to build floating shelves for my towers.

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post #4042 of 5103 Old 04-15-2019, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by ibrewmination View Post
With what limited time I had over the weekend, I performed as much comparative examination as I could
Did you try different TV Types to see their effect? (In settings)
Did you try the HDR Optimizer & the Dynamic Range Adjustment? (Options remote button during playback)

I bought the UB820 specifically for its tone mapping functions. If used strictly as a regular 4K player, there are cheaper options. With the UB820 you are paying for the HDR adjustment options.

Animation is a tough demo since it usually looks good on anything and MoS is a pretty ugly movie. The UB820 only makes sense if your using its extra HDR processing capabilities.
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post #4043 of 5103 Old 04-15-2019, 01:51 PM
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You mean if I pause the movie to get a snack, and come back, I have to reset subtitle settings? That stinks!

I actually just ordered one to use with my RS400, anticipating somewhat better results with SDR-2020 compared to my decent, but not ideal, custom gamma curves. I was looking forward to being able to shift subtitles, change luminance, etc. I understood it wouldn't stick from movie to movie, but if it doesn't stick *within* a single movie watching, that's pretty bad, and I agree that it should be called a bug.
What's ironic is that those options (shift and luminance) retain their previous settings, but the On/Off doesn’t!
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post #4044 of 5103 Old 04-15-2019, 02:02 PM
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What's ironic is that those options (shift and luminance) retain their previous settings, but the On/Off doesn’t!
Interesting. Clearly a bug. And I won't be holding my breath to see it fixed...

Thanks for the info.

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post #4045 of 5103 Old 04-15-2019, 02:12 PM
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Did you try different TV Types to see their effect? (In settings)
I did not. It was my understanding that selection of different TV Types was intended to dictate the degree of tone-mapping (i.e. to 1,000 nits for OLED, 700 nits (or whatever) to Bright Projector, etc.). Since I have an OLED, wouldn't the most desireable setting to be to map content to 1,000 nits? If there is better PQ by tone-mapping to a lower nit-value than my television is capable, would that be a fault?

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Did you try the HDR Optimizer & the Dynamic Range Adjustment? (Options remote button during playback)
I d not believe I messed much with these settings. The time I thought to, it was when HD content was not playing, and I think it gave me a message telling me as much.

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I bought the UB820 specifically for its tone mapping functions. If used strictly as a regular 4K player, there are cheaper options. With the UB820 you are paying for the HDR adjustment options.
Are there instances, with my LG OLED at 1,000 nits, where it would benefit me to utilize the HDR adjustment options? Is there a reason to use it over my Roku Ultra for streaming Netflix? Would I get lossless ATMOS from the app through the UB820 where it would be at a loss through the Roku?


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Animation is a tough demo since it usually looks good on anything
Agreed, and of course I knew this from the start... but it's what I have and I thought demoing the colors would be a good gauge. Unfortunate that Into the Spiderverse isn't Dolby Vision.
Maybe I'll look at Dynasties and flip that HDR optimizer before I make my final decision, instead of renting BR2049... ???

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...and MoS is a pretty ugly movie.
Hah... so I've learned. Still one of my faves, though. Too bad DC botched the next few (Batman vs. Superman & Justice League) so badly. Justice League, watched and owned 4K streaming on Vudu, had TONS of very distracting grain... at the time I thought it was snow... or some type of artifacting, it was so bad.

Thanks for your response, by the way.

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post #4046 of 5103 Old 04-15-2019, 03:07 PM
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What's ironic is that those options (shift and luminance) retain their previous settings, but the On/Off doesn’t!
They retain nothing on mine. Each time you play a disc, whether it is the same disc you started playing the night before, or a new disc, the shift and luminance are back to 0. I wish they'd have it remember.

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I did not. It was my understanding that selection of different TV Types was intended to dictate the degree of tone-mapping (i.e. to 1,000 nits for OLED, 700 nits (or whatever) to Bright Projector, etc.). Since I have an OLED, wouldn't the most desireable setting to be to map content to 1,000 nits? If there is better PQ by tone-mapping to a lower nit-value than my television is capable, would that be a fault?


I d not believe I messed much with these settings. The time I thought to, it was when HD content was not playing, and I think it gave me a message telling me as much.


Are there instances, with my LG OLED at 1,000 nits, where it would benefit me to utilize the HDR adjustment options? Is there a reason to use it over my Roku Ultra for streaming Netflix? Would I get lossless ATMOS from the app through the UB820 where it would be at a loss through the Roku?



Agreed, and of course I knew this from the start... but it's what I have and I thought demoing the colors would be a good gauge. Unfortunate that Into the Spiderverse isn't Dolby Vision.
Maybe I'll look at Dynasties and flip that HDR optimizer before I make my final decision, instead of renting BR2049... ???


Hah... so I've learned. Still one of my faves, though. Too bad DC botched the next few (Batman vs. Superman & Justice League) so badly. Justice League, watched and owned 4K streaming on Vudu, had TONS of very distracting grain... at the time I thought it was snow... or some type of artifacting, it was so bad.

Thanks for your response, by the way.
I got to say I'm supremely irritated by how messed up this whole era of 4k hardware cooperation is. It is idiotic, and the 1080p era was so much simpler.

I wish I KNEW DEFINITIVELY what it was outputting in SDR2020 mode, not just hearsay. That metadata info page just makes it nonsensical.

I guess from a technical by the books definition, if SDR, it must be outputting 100nit. I guess my projector does more than that at my current throw/gain./size, but I won't ever get clipping.

I guess I'm old fashioned, and love the projector, and I honestly don't want more retinal burning brightness, especially with full field of view and a black room. It took me a few months of use to get used to even the brightness that it was (to the point I was looking into bias lighting). My eyes eventually got used to it, plus tuning to my like. I do love the better color space and black level detail I get, and frankly I'd take black detail over bright any day. At any instant of time my irises have one setting... I actually run mine with the iris restricted to 75%, low lamp.
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post #4047 of 5103 Old 04-15-2019, 03:53 PM
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I got to say I'm supremely irritated by how messed up this whole era of 4k hardware cooperation is. It is idiotic, and the 1080p era was so much simpler.
I've waited until now, in my early forties, to jump into this game, so while I agree upon the idiocy, I am probably less irritated by it.

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I guess from a technical by the books definition, if SDR, it must be outputting 100nit. I guess my projector does more than that at my current throw/gain./size, but I won't ever get clipping.
Not entirely sure what I am looking for with clipping. Is it detail washed out by excessively bright/solid color? I looked at the image on Altered Carbon, as I mentioned, that was discussed earlier in this thread, but didn't see anything out of the ordinary and detail seemed great.

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I guess I'm old fashioned, and love the projector, and I honestly don't want more retinal burning brightness, especially with full field of view and a black room.
Sure. If I had the space and/or dedicated room I would have probably been looking at a projector.

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I do love the better color space and black level detail I get, and frankly I'd take black detail over bright any day.
But what if you can have both?
With the OLED I don't see any loss in black detail... that I'm aware of. In fact, it seems the opposite. Laying eyes upon this t.v. is what got me into this whole mess in the first place. All t.v.s I'd seen of this size before (when I was looking) suffered loss of PQ by making the jump above 45" or so... let alone above 55". Also, I guess it wasn't the brightness of the t.v., per se, but the contrast ratio. Then, this t.v. is what let me know Atmos was a thing. Whoops.
Yes, it's bright... and it has made me unexpectedly wince once or twice.
Are you saying that the HDR adjustments on the UB820 affect this?

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post #4048 of 5103 Old 04-15-2019, 04:08 PM
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They retain nothing on mine. Each time you play a disc, whether it is the same disc you started playing the night before, or a new disc, the shift and luminance are back to 0. I wish they'd have it remember.
I was only stopping the disc and resuming, and the Subtitle On/Off status was already lost. Won’t be surprised if other settings are also lost if the player is turned off automatically or manually.

Quote:
I wish I KNEW DEFINITIVELY what it was outputting in SDR2020 mode, not just hearsay. That metadata info page just makes it nonsensical.

I guess from a technical by the books definition, if SDR, it must be outputting 100nit. I guess my projector does more than that at my current throw/gain./size, but I won't ever get clipping.
SDR has no concept of “nits”; everything just follows a fixed gamma curve relative to the 100% (level 235 for 8-bit video), so metadata would be of no use. However, “SDR2020” is actually HDR placed in an “SDR Container”, so the tone mapping should have taken the display luminance into consideration, but apparently the UB820 doesn’t.
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post #4049 of 5103 Old 04-15-2019, 04:16 PM
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I've waited until now, in my early fourties, to jump into this game, so while I agree upon the idiocy, I am probably less irritated by it.


Not entirely sure what I am looking for with clipping. Is it detail washed out by excessively bright/solid color? I looked at the image on Altered Carbon, as I mentioned, that was discussed earlier in this thread, but didn't see anything out of the ordinary and detail seemed great.


Sure. If I had the space and/or dedicated room I would have probably been looking at a projector.


But what if you can have both?
With the OLED I don't see any loss in black detail... that I'm aware of. In fact, it seems the opposite. Laying eyes upon this t.v. is what got me into this whole mess in the first place. All t.v.s I'd seen of this size before (when I was looking) suffered loss of PQ by making the jump above 45" or so... let alone above 55". Also, I guess it wasn't the brightness of the t.v., per se, but the contrast ratio. Then, this t.v. is what let me know Atmos was a thing. Whoops.
Yes, it's bright... and it has made me unexpectedly wince once or twice.
Are you saying that the HDR adjustments on the UB820 affect this?
On clipping, that video posted previously in this thread explains it.

Sure with an oled, the black detail is there. But can your eyes see it if the screen is say 25% showing 9000 nits. Same as you are in the dark and someone points a bright torch in your eyes, the black detail around the torch is there, but your irises are contracted and you won't see it, unless you put your hand up and block the light source. With the projector I've had the same effect, so say watching Zero Dark Thirty, with some of those scenes in offices with people in black suits sitting in front of bright windows, if I put my hands up and blocked the windows, my eyes would show me more black detail (as my irises weren't contracted as much)
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post #4050 of 5103 Old 04-15-2019, 04:19 PM
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I was only stopping the disc and resuming, and the Subtitle On/Off status was already lost. Won’t be surprised if other settings are also lost if the player is turned off automatically or manually.

I mean the subtitle settings are definitely not kept between power cycles or stop and start - unlike the oppo.

SDR has no concept of “nits”; everything just follows a fixed gamma curve relative to the 100% (level 235 for 8-bit video), so metadata would be of no use. However, “SDR2020” is actually HDR placed in an “SDR Container”, so the tone mapping should have taken the display luminance into consideration, but apparently the UB820 doesn’t.
By technical definition, SDR is for a target of a fixed 100 nits / 100cd/m2.
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