Official Panasonic DP-UB820/824 Owner's Thread (No Price Talk) - Page 163 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #4861 of 5928 Old 06-23-2019, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by docrog View Post
As it has been posted here many times in the past, 4K60 @ 4:4:4 requires that the HDMI cable be competent to a minimum of at least 18Gbps.
For clarification - that’s for SDR. 10-bit HDR requires 22.3 Gbps min.

Last edited by Dominic Chan; 06-23-2019 at 12:56 PM.
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post #4862 of 5928 Old 06-23-2019, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
For clarification - that’s for SDR. 10-bit HDR requires 22.3 Gbps min.
Yes, sorry about leaving that important SDR point out of my post. My original HDMI cable was of insufficient bandwidth and had significant handshake issues with the main menu screen of both the Samsung 8500 and Panasonic UB820 players which required a full 18Gbps for pure 4K60 4:4:4 SDR video. Upgrading to a proper bandwidth cable nullified that issue. Note that @claw has posted multiple times that the UB820/9000 must be set at [email protected] 4:4:4 for the player's Netflix app to output HDR, even though that product won't require 18Gbps (minimum) bandwidth cables. That's what I was referring to in my prior post.

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Last edited by docrog; 06-23-2019 at 03:32 PM.
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post #4863 of 5928 Old 06-23-2019, 02:13 PM
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Recently set up my new Panny 820. I have yet to get into the panel 4K world; close but not quite there, but I chose to buy the Panny 820 first. I run a (short) Certified/Premium HDMI from my 820 directly into the Panasonic plasma that I have. I have experimented with both 1080p Blu-ray discs AND a few 4K discs. Regardless of 1080p discs or 4K discs, my old eyes CANNOT discern any difference from running 1080p Blu-ray discs from my nine year-old Panasonic Blu-ray player into the TV and then the new Panny 820. I fully "get" that the TV is 1080p and that it will obviously and necessarily "down-res" 4K to 2K, or simply put up 1080p Blu-ray as such...BUT, should I not expect this new 820 model to slightly outperform an "older sister" nine year-old Blu-ray player ?
The only slight difference that I think that I might notice is smoother pans from the 820 model.

The other comment is that the dang "NETFLIX" button is maddeningly too close to the "up switch" ( ^^ ) button.

Comments? This 820 has so many sophisticated options...maybe I have not configured well enough, in this trial/hybrid thing I currently have going on with my plasma !
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post #4864 of 5928 Old 06-23-2019, 02:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pip View Post
This is correct.



But this is incorrect. As Claw has diagnosed and reported, the Netflix app on the 820 will only output HDR if the player is set to 4:4:4. The Netflix app then sends 4:2:2 12-bit. I have confirmed this myself. Due to a flaw in the 820 Netflix app, there is no way to get HDR unless the player is set to 4:4:4. For some reason Netflix in this player demands to see this setting, even though it's not part of the HDR spec and the app itself doesn't even send 4:4:4. This setting does not force 4:4:4. All discs and streams are output correctly.





Many thanks to Claw for diagnosing this issue. This thread should have an FAQ with all his posts compiled.

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Actually, there are two settings that affect Netflix HDR playback.

1. 4K60 Output

This must be set to 4K60 4:4:4.

Think of this setting as the maximum color space that your TV or Projector supports at 4K60.

Netflix, for some reason, will not output 4K60 4:2:0 10-bit HDR. It will output 4:2:0 SDR instead. I have no idea why the Netflix App has this restriction as Netflix will output 4K60 4:2:0 HDR from some other players.


2. Advanced... Color Mode

This can be set to either Auto or 4:2:2. It cannot be set to 4:4:4 if you want HDR from Netflix.

Think of this setting as the color space that you want output to your TV for both 4K24 and 4K60.

If you set it to 4:4:4, then Netflix will output 4K60 4:4:4 8-bit SDR since 10-bit is not allowed for 4K60 4:4:4.

Leave this setting at Auto unless you want 4:2:2 for 4K24 output instead of 4:4:4.

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Last edited by claw; 06-23-2019 at 02:38 PM.
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post #4865 of 5928 Old 06-23-2019, 02:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by claw View Post
Actually, there are two settings that affect Netflix HDR playback.



1. 4K60 Output



This must be set to 4K60 4:4:4.



Think of this setting as the maximum color space that your TV or Projector supports at 4K60.



Netflix, for some reason, will not output 4K60 4:2:0 10-bit HDR. It will output 4:2:0 SDR instead. I have no idea why the Netflix App has this restriction.





2. Advanced... Color Mode



This can be set to either Auto or 4:2:2. It cannot be set to 4:4:4 if you want HDR from Netflix.



Think of this setting as the color space that you want output to your TV for both 4K24 and 4K60.



If you set it to 4:4:4, then Netflix will output 4K60 4:4:4 8-bit SDR since 10-bit is not allowed for 4K60 4:4:4.



Leave this setting at Auto unless you want 4:2:2 for 4K24 instead of 4:4:4.


Yes, I was referring to the second one. Setting it to 4:2:2 should avoid a slight degradation for 4K24, and have no effect on 4K60.
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post #4866 of 5928 Old 06-23-2019, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Pip View Post
Good news! My 820 (firmware v 1.55) only forgets subtitle on/off with Blu-rays which do not have a resume feature. I don't own a UHD disc without a resume feature (if they exist), so I can't test this. With all other discs: DVDs, Blu-rays with a resume feature, and UHD Blu-rays, all subtitle settings are remembered when resuming the disc. This includes pausing, stopping, changing HDR settings. For Blu-rays and UHD Blu-rays this also includes swapping discs, and/or powering the player off. With DVDs (after removing disc or powering off) there is no memory for resume play or subtitles.

For those who don't recall the switch from DVD to Blu-ray, with DVDs it was the player that was capable (or not) of storing playback info for a given disc (last spot played). Players were capable of storing this info for a finite number of DVDs that you had played. With the switch to Blu-ray, this previous playback info was assigned to the disc itself. Some Blu-rays have it, some do not.

But without question my 820 remembers all subtitle settings for all Blu-rays and UHDs that have the resume playback feature.

Hope this helps.

Pip
Maybe it does for non bdjava blu rays that resume, but from my experience, it doesn't even remember soundtrack selection for blu rays with BD Java coded resume. Try The Matrix. Being Warner it idiotically defaults to 5.1. Set it to DTSX and play. Then stop and turn off the player and when it asks you if you want to resume, it is on 5.1.
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post #4867 of 5928 Old 06-24-2019, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by MOberhardt View Post
Maybe it does for non bdjava blu rays that resume, but from my experience, it doesn't even remember soundtrack selection for blu rays with BD Java coded resume. Try The Matrix. Being Warner it idiotically defaults to 5.1. Set it to DTSX and play. Then stop and turn off the player and when it asks you if you want to resume, it is on 5.1.
I don't own the Matrix, (and I was discussing subtitles, not soundtracks), but I’ll guess it’s a Warner title with BD-live. I haven’t found any Warner discs with BD-live that support resume play. (Bookmarking is different from resume play.) It’s my experience that with every disc which supports resume play, the 820 remembers all of the subtitle settings.

In general regarding resume play, Fox and Sony discs support. Paramount and Universal discs don’t support. MGM discs sometimes support. Warner discs without BD-live support, and Warner discs with BD-live don't support.

I'll bet there are exceptions. Obviously I haven't tried every disc. But I do contend, that if the disc supports resume play, the 820 remembers the subtitle settings. This is consistent with my three different Sony players. All three behave exactly the same way with subtitles. My guess is that this applies to soundtrack selection as well.

I think this is a choice the disc authors make, rather than a failure of the player.

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post #4868 of 5928 Old 06-24-2019, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by WOLVERNOLE View Post
Recently set up my new Panny 820. I have yet to get into the panel 4K world; close but not quite there, but I chose to buy the Panny 820 first. I run a (short) Certified/Premium HDMI from my 820 directly into the Panasonic plasma that I have. I have experimented with both 1080p Blu-ray discs AND a few 4K discs. Regardless of 1080p discs or 4K discs, my old eyes CANNOT discern any difference from running 1080p Blu-ray discs from my nine year-old Panasonic Blu-ray player into the TV and then the new Panny 820. I fully "get" that the TV is 1080p and that it will obviously and necessarily "down-res" 4K to 2K, or simply put up 1080p Blu-ray as such...BUT, should I not expect this new 820 model to slightly outperform an "older sister" nine year-old Blu-ray player ?
The only slight difference that I think that I might notice is smoother pans from the 820 model.

The other comment is that the dang "NETFLIX" button is maddeningly too close to the "up switch" ( ^^ ) button.

Comments? This 820 has so many sophisticated options...maybe I have not configured well enough, in this trial/hybrid thing I currently have going on with my plasma !
In 2016 I tried to figure out if 4K discs would look any better than HD discs played back on a HD screen. I never got a straight answer and moved to a 4K player and display simultaneously so never tried myself. Since the way color and brightness work on 4K discs is significantly different than HD discs, the UB820 is doing quite a bit of manipulation to the content to spit out a SDR Rec.709 1080 image, it wouldn't surprise me if 1080 discs actually look better in this scenario.

Many will disagree and trot out statements about "test patterns" and such but with regular HD Blu-ray I saw very little difference between players, the PS3 I had was as good as anything else I tried. I'd argue, with very few exceptions, the same is likely true with UHD. I was an early adopter of UHD so I had the very first player, the Samsung K8500. I didn't really notice a difference between that and a handful of other UHD players I tried.

The ONE exception to everything I stated above is the HDR Optimizer and SDR2020 capabilities, they are the only reasons I bought a UB820. If you have a 4K display that benefits from either of those two features the UB820 is ABSOLUTELY the player to get. If you are not going to use either of those features, the UB820 is likely a waste of money and you'll be equally served with just about any other 4K player, even the cheap ones.

The HDR Optimizer and SDR2020 make enormous differences for some of us...for the rest I'd bet $1000 you cannot tell a difference between any UHD player at viewing distance on movie content without those functions.

The real question, what display are you going to buy and will it be benefited by the UB820...
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post #4869 of 5928 Old 06-24-2019, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by WOLVERNOLE View Post
Recently set up my new Panny 820. I have yet to get into the panel 4K world; close but not quite there, but I chose to buy the Panny 820 first. I run a (short) Certified/Premium HDMI from my 820 directly into the Panasonic plasma that I have. I have experimented with both 1080p Blu-ray discs AND a few 4K discs. Regardless of 1080p discs or 4K discs, my old eyes CANNOT discern any difference from running 1080p Blu-ray discs from my nine year-old Panasonic Blu-ray player into the TV and then the new Panny 820. I fully "get" that the TV is 1080p and that it will obviously and necessarily "down-res" 4K to 2K, or simply put up 1080p Blu-ray as such...BUT, should I not expect this new 820 model to slightly outperform an "older sister" nine year-old Blu-ray player ?
How big is your plasma? I replaced an Oppo player with the 820, and on my 120" wide scope screen, I thought the 820 had a noticeably better picture. It was not night and day or anything, and the Oppo player performed very nicely with 1080p material, but after watching several movies, it was pretty clear to me that there was an improvement on 1080p material with the 820. Maybe it's a matter of your display and/or the size f the display.
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post #4870 of 5928 Old 06-24-2019, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Franconian View Post
Mine is quite loud, the problem is the fan. It seems some are better and some are worse. I opened my player and unplugged the fan it it was dead silent. Unfortunately the player shuts off after a minute if the fan is not connected.


If anybody wants to listen, I've made a audio recording of the boot process. At 0:08 the fan kicks in, revs up for a second and stays on that weird whirring noise the whole time. I can hear it in the whole room.



https://1drv.ms/u/s!AjaM2s9uiRTSjhcZunc9E04607Fg


I'll bring the player back today and either get the fan changed or change the whole device.
I just got this unit yesterday (It is a April 2019 build) and it is making the exact same sound as in the clip. Since I also have the 9000, it is noticeable.

Did you end up getting it changed and got any better results? Maybe I should just replace the fan with a Sunon Maglev or exchange with another one.
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post #4871 of 5928 Old 06-24-2019, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Pip View Post
I don't own the Matrix, (and I was discussing subtitles, not soundtracks), but I’ll guess it’s a Warner title with BD-live. I haven’t found any Warner discs with BD-live that support resume play. (Bookmarking is different from resume play.) It’s my experience that with every disc which supports resume play, the 820 remembers all of the subtitle settings.

In general regarding resume play, Fox and Sony discs support. Paramount and Universal discs don’t support. MGM discs sometimes support. Warner discs without BD-live support, and Warner discs with BD-live don't support.

I'll bet there are exceptions. Obviously I haven't tried every disc. But I do contend, that if the disc supports resume play, the 820 remembers the subtitle settings. This is consistent with my three different Sony players. All three behave exactly the same way with subtitles. My guess is that this applies to soundtrack selection as well.

I think this is a choice the disc authors make, rather than a failure of the player.

Pip
It occurs with the subs as well. I was pointing out an actual instance where a disc definitely does support resume, but doesn't even remember something as core as the soundtrack you were listening to.

Non-BDJ discs just support playback intrinsically so long as the player does. For ANY BDJ disc, the authors have to program the resume function into it, and in the case I cited of the Matrix UHD, they support it, but just default the selected tracks on resume, not what you had selected.
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post #4872 of 5928 Old 06-24-2019, 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by smitty View Post
How big is your plasma? I replaced an Oppo player with the 820, and on my 120" wide scope screen, I thought the 820 had a noticeably better picture. It was not night and day or anything, and the Oppo player performed very nicely with 1080p material, but after watching several movies, it was pretty clear to me that there was an improvement on 1080p material with the 820. Maybe it's a matter of your display and/or the size f the display.
It is a 50" Panasonic plasma, VT20, I think.
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post #4873 of 5928 Old 06-24-2019, 06:11 PM
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Upscaling Question

I am watching the 1080p bluray of Jurassic World on my 2018 vizio m series tv with the ub820 upscaling it to 4k. The movie looks more grainy/blurry than I remember. Its like I can see some noise in the background on several scenes. It is outputting 4k/24p ycbcr 4:2:2 12 bit. Could this be the problem? I mostly watch 4k blurays so maybe it just looks soft compared to those. Thoughts?
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post #4874 of 5928 Old 06-24-2019, 08:47 PM
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I have the 4K version of Jurassic world. It looks pretty good. I have never had a regular Blu-ray look overly grainy. I had some 4K discs that do though at times.
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post #4875 of 5928 Old 06-24-2019, 09:27 PM
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I found the “Display” setting with the “Projector” and “Normal” values in the Video settings (above the HDR settings) while playing Netflix, but not when playing UHD discs. Is this the second “Projector” setting someone has mentioned (the other one being the display type setting that governs target nits)?
Does anybody know why it is not available when playing UHD discs?

BTW, in this menu I discovered that sharpness and other image processing options were on by default, so I quickly set them to zero.
You might want to check them out.
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post #4876 of 5928 Old 06-24-2019, 09:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Erod View Post
Under the Picture Settings menu, go to "Display" and change from "Normal" to "Projector".
This is the second “Projector” setting I was referring to.
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post #4877 of 5928 Old 06-24-2019, 10:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Dandlj View Post
I’ve been testing out Netflix on the 820 vs ATV.

With the optimiser switched on, shows like Star Trek Discovery look better via the 820 IMO.

I’m also getting Atmos through my Denon amp.

However, one issue I have is that lip sync is out. Is this a known problem? If so, what’s the fix?

Lip sync is fine when using the ATV.


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Also getting a significant lip sync issue with netflix on the 820. Discs are fine.

Have had to stick with ATV for Netflix because of this.

Any solutions?
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post #4878 of 5928 Old 06-24-2019, 10:33 PM
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Originally Posted by BuGsArEtAsTy View Post
More to come after I’ve had some sleep but I just want to see if you have experienced the same problem I have with Netflix.

It seems the audio sync for Netflix on the UB820 is borked. The video plays slightly BEFORE the audio, so obviously setting an audio delay on the receiver (or in the player) won’t work.

I’ve tried this on several Netflix videos and it’s the same result on the UB820. In contrast, the audio sync is fine on the UB400 in Netflix.

Audio sync is fine or correctable in for disc playback. This is strictly a Netflix problem.

It’s almost as if the UB820 version of Netflix has built in an audio delay for some reason.
Exactly what I’m seeing. The video plays before the audio so there is no way to fix the issue with an audio delay. It’s already delayed.

Anyone found a solution?
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post #4879 of 5928 Old 06-25-2019, 12:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Franconian View Post
Mine is quite loud, the problem is the fan. It seems some are better and some are worse. I opened my player and unplugged the fan it it was dead silent. Unfortunately the player shuts off after a minute if the fan is not connected.


If anybody wants to listen, I've made a audio recording of the boot process. At 0:08 the fan kicks in, revs up for a second and stays on that weird whirring noise the whole time. I can hear it in the whole room.



https://1drv.ms/u/s!AjaM2s9uiRTSjhcZunc9E04607Fg


I'll bring the player back today and either get the fan changed or change the whole device.
I just got this unit yesterday (It is a April 2019 build) and it is making the exact same sound as in the clip. Since I also have the 9000, it is noticeable.

Did you end up getting it changed and got any better results? Maybe I should just replace the fan with a Sunon Maglev or exchange with another one.
I got the fan replaced at a Panasonic Service Center but it was the same noise. Then I ordered a new player and compared them side by side, but again, same noise. Maybe 1 db more quiet.

So after three fans I think every fan is the same its just that some people like me are more sensitive.

Havent found a aftermarket fan because or the special and smaller fan connector.

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post #4880 of 5928 Old 06-25-2019, 02:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Franconian View Post
I got the fan replaced at a Panasonic Service Center but it was the same noise. Then I ordered a new player and compared them side by side, but again, same noise. Maybe 1 db more quiet.

So after three fans I think every fan is the same its just that some people like me are more sensitive.

Havent found a aftermarket fan because or the special and smaller fan connector.
You can't rewire the connector?
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post #4881 of 5928 Old 06-25-2019, 03:25 AM
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Originally Posted by MOberhardt View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Franconian View Post
I got the fan replaced at a Panasonic Service Center but it was the same noise. Then I ordered a new player and compared them side by side, but again, same noise. Maybe 1 db more quiet.

So after three fans I think every fan is the same its just that some people like me are more sensitive.

Havent found a aftermarket fan because or the special and smaller fan connector.
You can't rewire the connector?
I am sure you can but I haven‘t tried it yet because of the waranty and I have to find somebody with soldering skills and a quiet replacement fan.
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post #4882 of 5928 Old 06-25-2019, 03:20 PM
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I am sure you can but I haven‘t tried it yet because of the waranty and I have to find somebody with soldering skills and a quiet replacement fan.
Fair enough. I'd have to see pictures, but often with connectors, if there is a lead running to it, you can usually extract the innards with a pin and if the internal lugs are the same on old and new, swap. Or just rebind the new wires to the old plugs.

I also wonder how actually useful the fan is. I'd lay money on it that so long as you are not using the analog 7.1 audio side of it, it provides zero use. Personally, if I had an issue with the fan noise, once out of warranty i'd just disconnect it. And if you have a kitchen thermometer probe, just check temps as it runs before and after.

Last edited by MOberhardt; 06-25-2019 at 03:35 PM.
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post #4883 of 5928 Old 06-25-2019, 03:37 PM
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I don't notice any fan noise with my 820 even standing right next to it, guess I got lucky with my player. Bought it from VE back in March '19
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post #4884 of 5928 Old 06-25-2019, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by MOberhardt View Post
Fair enough. I'd have to see pictures, but often with connectors, if there is a lead running to it, you can usually extract the innards with a pin and if the internal lugs are the same on old and new, swap. Or just rebind the new wires to the old plugs.

I also wonder how actually useful the fan is. I'd lay money on it that so long as you are not using the analog 7.1 audio side of it, it provides zero use. Personally, if I had an issue with the fan noise, once out of warranty i'd just disconnect it. And if you have a kitchen thermometer probe, just check temps as it runs before and after.

I don't think it has nothing to do with the 7.1 analogue outputs, 820's little brother the DP-UB420 has no analogue outs and has a fan too.
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post #4885 of 5928 Old 06-25-2019, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Franconian View Post
I am sure you can but I haven‘t tried it yet because of the waranty and I have to find somebody with soldering skills and a quiet replacement fan.
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Originally Posted by MOberhardt View Post
Fair enough. I'd have to see pictures, but often with connectors, if there is a lead running to it, you can usually extract the innards with a pin and if the internal lugs are the same on old and new, swap. Or just rebind the new wires to the old plugs.

I also wonder how actually useful the fan is. I'd lay money on it that so long as you are not using the analog 7.1 audio side of it, it provides zero use. Personally, if I had an issue with the fan noise, once out of warranty i'd just disconnect it. And if you have a kitchen thermometer probe, just check temps as it runs before and after.
It's a 50mm x 50mm x 15 mm PWM 3 pin (core) fan according to this post which also has pictures.

https://www.avforums.com/threads/pan...#post-26255877

I am on the same boat with warranty too so I did not want to open mine.

Last edited by Sango; 06-25-2019 at 05:49 PM.
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post #4886 of 5928 Old 06-25-2019, 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Sango View Post
It's a 50mm x 50mm x 15 mm PWM 3 pin (core) fan according to this post which also has pictures.

https://www.avforums.com/threads/pan...#post-26255877

I am on the same boat with warranty too so I did not want to open mine.
Hmm, looks like some good options for pretty silent ones. Gelid Solutions Silent 5 or the Scythe Mini Kaze 50mm. I think the Scythe comes with 2 and 3 pin, the Gelid with 3 pin.

I wonder what the brand of the one in it is, and dBA?
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post #4887 of 5928 Old 06-25-2019, 09:25 PM
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Exactly what I’m seeing. The video plays before the audio so there is no way to fix the issue with an audio delay. It’s already delayed.



Anyone found a solution?


I’ve got exactly the same issue and have returned back to using the ATV.



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post #4888 of 5928 Old 06-25-2019, 10:22 PM
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I’ve got exactly the same issue and have returned back to using the ATV.



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If Panasonic released the next model, and it had HDMIinput like the oppo, I'd gladly upgrade... So I can use the tone mapping on the atv, or another 4k device
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post #4889 of 5928 Old 06-25-2019, 11:37 PM
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Originally Posted by MOberhardt View Post
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Originally Posted by Franconian View Post
I am sure you can but I haven‘t tried it yet because of the waranty and I have to find somebody with soldering skills and a quiet replacement fan.
Fair enough. I'd have to see pictures, but often with connectors, if there is a lead running to it, you can usually extract the innards with a pin and if the internal lugs are the same on old and new, swap. Or just rebind the new wires to the old plugs.

I also wonder how actually useful the fan is. I'd lay money on it that so long as you are not using the analog 7.1 audio side of it, it provides zero use. Personally, if I had an issue with the fan noise, once out of warranty i'd just disconnect it. And if you have a kitchen thermometer probe, just check temps as it runs before and after.
Disconnecting was the first thing I tried. The player is dead silent then, but I shuts down after a minute when the fan is not plugged in. Must be a overheating protection of the mainboard.

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Last edited by Franconian; 06-25-2019 at 11:41 PM.
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post #4890 of 5928 Old 06-25-2019, 11:39 PM
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Disconnecting was the first thing I tried. The player is dead silent then, but I shuts down after a minute when the fan is not plugged in. Must be a overheating protection of the mainboard.
Hm, odd, I'd not have thought that would happen. At least we know it is necessary then!
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