Official Panasonic DP-UB820/824 Owner's Thread (No Price Talk) - Page 212 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #6331 of 7769 Old 12-06-2019, 03:08 PM
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I'm late to the party on this but I recently watched Vincent Teoh's video on the HDR Optimizer setting on the Panasonic UHD players...I always thought that the higher end TV's did a much better job at tone mapping then any UHD player...Vincent says to disable tone mapping on the display and enable it via the HDR Optimizer...I have an LG C7 OLED but I don't see any Dynamic Tone Mapping setting...how would I disable tone mapping on my LG C7?
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post #6332 of 7769 Old 12-06-2019, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by TitusTroy View Post
I'm late to the party on this but I recently watched Vincent Teoh's video on the HDR Optimizer setting on the Panasonic UHD players...I always thought that the higher end TV's did a much better job at tone mapping then any UHD player...Vincent says to disable tone mapping on the display
No no! This is quite a common mistake so I'll explain - he says that if you have dynamic tone mapping, then you should disable dynamic tone mapping on your TV so that there aren't two devices both analysing the picture and doing dynamic tone mapping.

He doesn't say disable all forms of "tone mapping"! You can't disable tone mapping completely. you have to have some form of tone mapping and the TV will always tone-map
(a) colours that it can't display, down to without its own colour gamut
(b) luminances that it can't display, down to within its brightness range.

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and enable it via the HDR Optimizer...I have an LG C7 OLED but I don't see any Dynamic Tone Mapping setting...how would I disable tone mapping on my LG C7?
See above - you are mixing up two completely different things, dynamic tone mapping which is the one you only want happening in one place, and plain tone mapping which isn't possible to disable. Exactly the same as like it's not possible to disable the TV's scaler and watch SD content at 1/16th of the size of the screen, HD content 1/4 the size of the screen etc.

The TV always scales up to 4K to fill the screen and you cannot turn off the scaler.
The TV always tone-maps out-of-range content to within its capabilities, and you cannot turn off the tone-mapping.

Dynamic tone-mapping just manipulates the tone-curve based on analysing the picture contents instead of obeying the metadata. Vincent says you should go back to the normal TV behaviour of obeying the metadata, but obviously, the TV will still be doing tone-mapping that way

Now the answer to the question you meant to ask
https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/lg/c7-oled/settings
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The 2017 LG OLED TVs now support HDR with 'Active HDR', which is similar to HDR10+ or HDR10 with dynamic metadata. This feature analyses the content frame by frame in real time to adjust the HDR tone mapping curve. This has the advantage of displaying each scene with an optimized HDR effect, as opposed to the HDR with a static metadata, where all the movie was using the same tone mapping curve, resulting in some scene sometimes being too dark or too bright or simply not exposed correctly to have the best possible HDR effect.

To activate this feature on the C7, you need to go in the 'Expert control' tab. In the 'Expert Control' tab, you will need to set the 'Dynamic Contrast' to 'Low'. The 'Low' setting turn on the 'Active HDR without the 'Contrast Enhancement'.
So - turn off 'Dynamic Contrast' to turn off dynamic tone mapping HTH
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post #6333 of 7769 Old 12-06-2019, 03:37 PM
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No no! This is quite a common mistake so I'll explain - he says that if you have dynamic tone mapping, then you should disable dynamic tone mapping on your TV so that there aren't two devices both analysing the picture and doing dynamic tone mapping.

He doesn't say disable all forms of "tone mapping"! You can't disable tone mapping completely. you have to have some form of tone mapping and the TV will always tone-map
(a) colours that it can't display, down to without its own colour gamut
(b) luminances that it can't display, down to within its brightness range.

See above - you are mixing up two completely different things, dynamic tone mapping which is the one you only want happening in one place, and plain tone mapping which isn't possible to disable. Exactly the same as like it's not possible to disable the TV's scaler and watch SD content at 1/16th of the size of the screen, HD content 1/4 the size of the screen etc.

The TV always scales up to 4K to fill the screen and you cannot turn off the scaler.
The TV always tone-maps out-of-range content to within its capabilities, and you cannot turn off the tone-mapping.
thanks for the clarification...so what's the point of the Dynamic Tone Mapping setting?...does it boost the built in tone mapping feature of the display and is it effective?...or is better to have it disabled regardless on whether I have the HDR Optimizer feature?...so the fact that my C7 doesn't have the Dynamic Tone Mapping feature is not a big loss?
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post #6334 of 7769 Old 12-06-2019, 03:41 PM
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thanks for the clarification...so what's the point of the Dynamic Tone Mapping setting?...does it boost the built in tone mapping feature of the display and is it effective?...or is better to have it disabled regardless on whether I have the HDR Optimizer feature?...so the fact that my C7 doesn't have the Dynamic Tone Mapping feature is not a big loss?
It does have it, and I've edit my post to explain more but you were too fast for me, there's more in there now

You don't want two separate algorithms both analysing the picture and manipulating the tone curve, the player and the TV, that could go badly wrong and they could work against each other. That's what Vincent is saying, you pick one, and use it. Or neither. But not both at the same time :-)

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post #6335 of 7769 Old 12-06-2019, 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
So - turn off 'Dynamic Contrast' to turn off dynamic tone mapping HTH
Dynamic Contrast you don't want to disable on the C7 as it acts as a sort of pseudo HDR10+...it acts as a way of enabling dynamic metadata for HDR10 content
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post #6336 of 7769 Old 12-06-2019, 03:46 PM
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Dynamic Contrast you don't want to disable on the C7 as it acts as a sort of pseudo HDR10+...it acts as a way of enabling dynamic metadata for HDR10 content
Which is the same thing and is the answer to your question "how do you turn off dynamic tone mapping" and what Vincent is advising you to do.
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post #6337 of 7769 Old 12-06-2019, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
Which is the same thing and is the answer to your question "how do you turn off dynamic tone mapping" and what Vincent is advising you to do.
so the HDR Optimizer doesn't apply to Dolby Vision content as DV is already using dynamic metadata right?...but then why is the HDR Optimizer available on the UB420 which supports HDR10+?...HDR10+ is already using dynamic metadata
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post #6338 of 7769 Old 12-06-2019, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by TitusTroy View Post
so the HDR Optimizer doesn't apply to Dolby Vision content as DV is already using dynamic metadata right?...but then why is the HDR Optimizer available on the UB420 which supports HDR10+?...HDR10+ is already using dynamic metadata
HDR Optimizer does not work with HDR10+ either.
Note that HDR Optimizer is static, not dynamic.
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post #6339 of 7769 Old 12-06-2019, 04:06 PM
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I thought the player was just tonemapping? When does it add dynamic metadata? Or are y’all just talking about what Vincent says is an accurate picture?

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post #6340 of 7769 Old 12-06-2019, 04:25 PM
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"To activate this feature on the C7, you need to go in the 'Expert control' tab. In the 'Expert Control' tab, you will need to set the 'Dynamic Contrast' to 'Low'. The 'Low' setting turn on the 'Active HDR without the 'Contrast Enhancement'"

I think my C7 handles things better because setting Dynamic Contrast to Low doesn't effect the Contrast...in the 2018+ models they changed the name to Dynamic Tone Mapping and it works a bit differently...so for those displays I think disabling it in the LG settings and enabling the HDR Optimizer would be the best way to go...but for my C7 I think it's better to use the Dynamic Contrast Low setting (which is how I've always used it)
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post #6341 of 7769 Old 12-06-2019, 07:32 PM
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There is hope, but it's only forlorn and unrealistic fantasy hope!
Sad. I don't know how it streams Prime and Netflix, and I don't have Disney+ yet. Figured that was unlikely. I did think I read somewhere that it could work with voice commands though? I bought another echo to control the lights, but thought about getting a cube with it to do more. Bummer and bummer...
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post #6342 of 7769 Old 12-06-2019, 07:34 PM
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Sad. I don't know how it streams Prime and Netflix, and I don't have Disney+ yet. Figured that was unlikely. I did think I read somewhere that it could work with voice commands though? I bought another echo to control the lights, but thought about getting a cube with it to do more. Bummer and bummer...
Says this when I look it up online...


Works with Alexa - command a variety of operations without your remote with Alexa, Plus Access a wider variety of 4K content with 4K VOD streaming from Prime video, Netflix and YouTube
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Hello all, I am new to AVS Forums and this is my first post so I apologize for my lack of knowledge on everything 4K and HDR related.
I was wondering for any of you that happen to have a Panasonic DP-UB820 paired with an Epson 5040UB, how you get the best picture possible out of that combo. In particular what settings do I need to adjust to get the best HDR colors?
You can assume my projector and 4K Blu-ray player are on their factory settings. I would be so appreciative if someone could recommend everything that needs adjusted to get stellar picture and HDR colors. Thanks so much for any help you can provide.
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post #6344 of 7769 Old 12-07-2019, 02:56 AM
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Sad. I don't know how it streams Prime and Netflix, and I don't have Disney+ yet. Figured that was unlikely.
There's no "yet" for Disney+ here, I have no intention whatsoever of subscribing to Disney+.

Just use the internal apps on your TV, the picture quality will be better anyway.

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post #6345 of 7769 Old 12-08-2019, 04:56 AM
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Finally for mine along with my first Oled! This player really is fantastic!
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post #6346 of 7769 Old 12-08-2019, 06:54 AM
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Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
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Originally Posted by Porknz View Post
Sad. I don't know how it streams Prime and Netflix, and I don't have Disney+ yet. Figured that was unlikely.
Just use the internal apps on your TV, the picture quality will be better anyway.

Please elaborate....

I was planning on using this DVD player’s apps for Netflix, etc. is this NOT the ideal option? Many other posts claim that TV’s apps are typically inferior....

😎It's just life, dude. We are all gonna die sometime--Might as well try and have a kickass time while we're still here.😜
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post #6347 of 7769 Old 12-08-2019, 11:44 AM
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Please elaborate....

I was planning on using this DVD player’s apps for Netflix, etc. is this NOT the ideal option? Many other posts claim that TV’s apps are typically inferior....
For one thing, internal apps inherently have fewer conversions from RGB to YCrCb and back to RGB in the TV's internal signal processing path. If you're using a HDMI input that's a couple of extra conversions to start with, so the internal app has a head start. Each conversion can introduce rounding errors etc.

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post #6348 of 7769 Old 12-08-2019, 06:47 PM
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The ub820 has the amazing hdr tone mapping feature and hdr optimizer.

Another interesting feature is the hcx processor; it takes 1080p hd 420 and upscales to 4k 444; and takes 4k uhd 420 and colors to 444.
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post #6349 of 7769 Old 12-09-2019, 12:17 PM
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The ub820 has the amazing hdr tone mapping feature and hdr optimizer.
Agreed

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Another interesting feature is the hcx processor; it takes 1080p hd 420 and upscales to 4k 444; and takes 4k uhd 420 and colors to 444.
Every TV in the world does that when an incoming 4:2:0 signal arrives to the TV, otherwise some pixels would not have any colours!

It's all about how well it can guess what the colours were that were lost, in the lossy compression from the original 4:4:4 (every pixel has its own colour) down to 4:2:0 (colours are shared).

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post #6350 of 7769 Old 12-10-2019, 01:26 PM
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Disney+ release info.

This is just speculation but my cousin in Germany messaged me asking if we had Disney+ available yet here in the states because they don't get it until March 31st 2020. Since this player was European based I'm assuming we will probably get the app shortly after then. It would be awesome if we got it before then but most likely we will need to wait until then if they plan to make it available in the future.
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post #6351 of 7769 Old 12-10-2019, 02:22 PM
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This is just speculation but my cousin in Germany messaged me asking if we had Disney+ available yet here in the states because they don't get it until March 31st 2020. Since this player was European based I'm assuming we will probably get the app shortly after then.
Did you know that Japan is not in Europe?

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post #6352 of 7769 Old 12-10-2019, 05:27 PM
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I have an older Pioneer receiver elite vsx45 and it does not have the newer decoders like atmos. I'm running the 820 hdmi audio directly to the pioneer. and it seems like when it downmixes the newer formats to dts I'll get some audio dropouts. When playing "ready player one" I'll get a few dropouts. It doesn't seem to happen in DD+.

I have the player set to bitstream, when I switch it to pcm, my receiver switches to dd+.

Don’t remember this happing with my previous Samsung 4K player.

Think before you speak....

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post #6353 of 7769 Old 12-11-2019, 12:43 AM
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Thanks, peeps!

So its just like the old-school days of running s-video/component video cables straight to the tv to bypass the receiver for those who wanted the best possible picture.
The picture should be the same since it's digital, but you never know so it might have some benefit going straight from the player to the display. However, like they said, it's mainly if you don't have a receiver that will pass through the newer signals, then you definitely want one to go strait to the display, the the other one to send audio to the receiver.

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post #6354 of 7769 Old 12-11-2019, 04:01 AM
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I think my C7 handles things better because setting Dynamic Contrast to Low doesn't effect the Contrast...in the 2018+ models they changed the name to Dynamic Tone Mapping and it works a bit differently...so for those displays I think disabling it in the LG settings and enabling the HDR Optimizer would be the best way to go...but for my C7 I think it's better to use the Dynamic Contrast Low setting (which is how I've always used it)
If you want to use the HDR optimizer you need to disable dynamic ontrast on your C7 or you'll lose the benefits of the former. This has been proved by Vincent Teoh and others.
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post #6355 of 7769 Old 12-11-2019, 05:28 AM
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I have an older Pioneer receiver elite vsx45 and it does not have the newer decoders like atmos. I'm running the 820 hdmi audio directly to the pioneer. and it seems like when it downmixes the newer formats to dts I'll get some audio dropouts. When playing "ready player one" I'll get a few dropouts. It doesn't seem to happen in DD+.

I have the player set to bitstream, when I switch it to pcm, my receiver switches to dd+.

Don’t remember this happing with my previous Samsung 4K player.
I solved my own issue.....what was happening was that my tv was taking control of the receiver and it would switch the input back to "arc" instead of my dedicated 4k BD inout on my pioneer.

Think before you speak....
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post #6356 of 7769 Old 12-11-2019, 08:33 AM
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can someone provide UB820 settings for sony oled A8F and LG SJ9

sound is not good at all..picture quality is fine.. in UB820 I changed TV type to oled and enabled DV and HDR10+ ..let me know what settings should be on TV and player for better picture and sound.
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post #6357 of 7769 Old 12-11-2019, 09:08 AM
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can someone provide UB820 settings for sony oled A8F and LG SJ9

sound is not good at all..picture quality is fine.. in UB820 I changed TV type to oled and enabled DV and HDR10+ ..let me know what settings should be on TV and player for better picture and sound.

Ummm, how about you tell us what your settings are first?
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post #6358 of 7769 Old 12-13-2019, 08:44 AM
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I have a similar question. I have a pro-calibrated LG C8. Should I move any of the UB820 settings off of default values? In looking at them I didn't see anything jump out as obvious candidates to change. I flipped Dolby Vision on and left the rest alone. Would I have any need of the HDR optimizer?
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post #6359 of 7769 Old 12-13-2019, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by tbird8450 View Post
I have a similar question. I have a pro-calibrated LG C8. Should I move any of the UB820 settings off of default values? In looking at them I didn't see anything jump out as obvious candidates to change. I flipped Dolby Vision on and left the rest alone. Would I have any need of the HDR optimizer?
I have the same combo as you, including a calibrated C8. After I had my calibration, my guy actually recommended I get a UB820 and so I did. The primary reason was for it's HDR Optimizer, which is basically it's Dynamic Tone Mapping. He said it was superior to the TVs version and I have definitely found that to be the case. I actually have Dynamic Tone Mapping turned off on my C8 now and just let the Panasonic do it's thing. All my settings are more or less on default.
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post #6360 of 7769 Old 12-13-2019, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by zeonstar View Post
I have the same combo as you, including a calibrated C8. After I had my calibration, my guy actually recommended I get a UB820 and so I did. The primary reason was for it's HDR Optimizer, which is basically it's Dynamic Tone Mapping. He said it was superior to the TVs version and I have definitely found that to be the case. I actually have Dynamic Tone Mapping turned off on my C8 now and just let the Panasonic do it's thing. All my settings are more or less on default.
My understanding is that the Panasonic players only perform Static Tone Mapping, based on the metadata in the source. And that Dynamic Tone Mapping (like what the the new firmware for the JVC projectors do) performs the tone mapping on a frame by frame or scene by scene basis by analyzing each frame of the image as it is displayed.

1) JVC DLA-NX7 & Sony 65Z9D, Yamaha CX-A5200, Outlaw Audio 7900 & 7700, UDP-203, DP-UB9000, UBP-X800M2, Roku Ultra
2) Sony 75Z9D, Yamaha RX-A3080, 2xOutlaw Audio 2200s, UDP-203, UBP-X800M2, Roku Ultra
3) Sony 75X940E, Yamaha RX-A2080, UDP-203, UBP-X800M2, Roku Ultra
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