Official Panasonic DP-UB820/824 Owner's Thread (No Price Talk) - Page 213 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #6361 of 6754 Old 12-13-2019, 01:52 PM
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So if I wanted to use the static tone mapping of the Panasonic, I’d disable Dynamic Tone Mapping from the C8, enable HDR Optimizer, and then....anything else? Or is simply switching on the optimizer all that is required?
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post #6362 of 6754 Old 12-13-2019, 10:12 PM
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So about a month ago my player flashed a F99 code and I powered it down and kind of forgot about it. Started it back up tonight and all I get is the welcome screen on front of player and no output to my display. Had to use the eject code to get the disc out I had left in and then tried factory reset to no avail. Stays on the welcome screen for about 3 mins and then powers down. And it’s outside of warranty...any help appreciated.
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post #6363 of 6754 Old 12-13-2019, 10:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbird8450 View Post
So if I wanted to use the static tone mapping of the Panasonic, I’d disable Dynamic Tone Mapping from the C8, enable HDR Optimizer, and then....anything else? Or is simply switching on the optimizer all that is required?
That should be it. On my 420 if I enable DTM with the HDR Optimizer on with my C8 some scenes are brighter for example like on The Revenant but I think that is the C8 reacting to the Panasonic HDR Optimizer and from what I have read from some folks is using the two together causes issues. Although some other reports have said you should use both together which is still up for debate I guess. If Vincent Teoh has explicitly said only use the Panasonic tone mapping then I must trust his expertise.
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post #6364 of 6754 Old 12-14-2019, 03:23 AM
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Originally Posted by pwiss View Post
That should be it. On my 420 if I enable DTM with the HDR Optimizer on with my C8 some scenes are brighter for example like on The Revenant but I think that is the C8 reacting to the Panasonic HDR Optimizer and from what I have read from some folks is using the two together causes issues. Although some other reports have said you should use both together which is still up for debate I guess. If Vincent Teoh has explicitly said only use the Panasonic tone mapping then I must trust his expertise.
Vincent Teoh calibrated my LG C9 HDR optimizer off on tv optimizer Panasonic 820 on.
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post #6365 of 6754 Old 12-14-2019, 07:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddie E View Post
It may be a little nit picky, but I have a concern that my Panasonic UB820 may be returned unit. I purchased it from Amazon. The batteries were already in the remote controller. I have purchased dozens of electronics that use remotes over the years, and all them either had the batteries packaged separately, or there was a plastic pull strip to prevent contact. I thinking maybe mine is re-boxed. Anyone else's player came with the remote batteries already installed? Thanks.
More than likely the unit you purchased from Amazon was a return or refurb? Is that possible? Absolutely! What many people fail top realize is "ANYONE" can sell their stuff/junk/crap on Amazon. The Amazon website has tens of thousands of third party sellers. Some Amazon sellers ship their items from China (i.e., long shipping times.) FACT: I've been buying off Amazon for over 18 years and have never received anything other than brand new sealed items when the item was sold and shipped by Amazon. (Not saying it couldn't happen buy if it did Amazon would gladly process the return) In any event glad you got the returned and resolved your situation.

Just FYI: Depending on the date... if you were to search amazon for a Panasonic UB820 you could find prices anywhere from $267 to $400. If you jump on the lowest price more than likely its going to be a third party and probably a refurb or a return. Rule Of Thumb: When buying something off Amazon make sure the item says: Ships and Sold by Amazon.com. (unless you want the lowest price and don't worry about who's selling it) Your next best buying option is to find where the product says: Sold by XYZ Company and Fulfilled by Amazon. When fulfilled by Amazon you will still get it quickly but if there's a problem with the item you will have to resolve it through the third party seller. If you can only get a product from a third party seller...click on the sellers name in the listing then check out their reviews and make your buying decision accordingly.
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post #6366 of 6754 Old 12-14-2019, 09:01 AM
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Question Please
I was hoping to stream Atmos when available using my 820. I got Prime to hook up but no Atmos. On Netflix it tells me I need a 2.2 HDMI capable TV and will not even play, though I get Netflix through my Fire Box?
Player does play Atmos on enabled disk's.
Set up
Samsung Plasma 1080p TV
Denon X3300-W AVR
Panasonic DP-UB820

Is there a setting I am missing?
Thanks for your time

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post #6367 of 6754 Old 12-14-2019, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by oldtexasdog View Post
Question Please

I was hoping to stream Atmos when available using my 820. I got Prime to hook up but no Atmos. On Netflix it tells me I need a 2.2 HDMI capable TV and will not even play, though I get Netflix through my Fire Box?

Player does play Atmos on enabled disk's.

Set up

Samsung Plasma 1080p TV

Denon X3300-W AVR

Panasonic DP-UB820



Is there a setting I am missing?

Thanks for your time


I don’t think Atmos is offered on prime/Netflix on non-4K versions of shows. Unless you have an EDID “tricking” device the streaming services can see that you don’t have a 4K tv and will only offer you the lower resolution version which may not have Atmos. Time to upgrade your old plasma


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post #6368 of 6754 Old 12-14-2019, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by farsider3000 View Post
I don’t think Atmos is offered on prime/Netflix on non-4K versions of shows. Unless you have an EDID “tricking” device the streaming services can see that you don’t have a 4K tv and will only offer you the lower resolution version which may not have Atmos. Time to upgrade your old plasma


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Thanks for the EDID trick!! I will look into it.

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post #6369 of 6754 Old 12-14-2019, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by claw View Post
Agree. The UB820 does not perform the type of dynamic tone mapping that the C8 can. No frame by frame or scene by scene tone mapping. It only adjusts the tone mapping curve once, based on the content's static HDR10 metadata.
I’m surprised Vincent Teoh turned off the dynamic tone mapping and used the UB820 static tone mapping.
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post #6370 of 6754 Old 12-14-2019, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by oldtexasdog View Post
Thanks for the EDID trick!! I will look into it.

I will also add that the UB820 has a terrible GUI and you will get a superior experience using an Apple TV, Roku or Nvidia Shield in my opinion. I own all of them and Apple TV would be at the top of my list unless you want to stream ripped 4K mkv (copies of disks you own) with Atmos.


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post #6371 of 6754 Old 12-14-2019, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by oldtexasdog View Post
Thanks for the EDID trick!! I will look into it.


You can look into the HD Fury line of devices but 4K TVs are so cheap these days I would recommend upgrading.


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post #6372 of 6754 Old 12-14-2019, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by oldtexasdog View Post
Question Please
I was hoping to stream Atmos when available using my 820. I got Prime to hook up but no Atmos. On Netflix it tells me I need a 2.2 HDMI capable TV and will not even play, though I get Netflix through my Fire Box?
Player does play Atmos on enabled disk's.
Set up
Samsung Plasma 1080p TV
Denon X3300-W AVR
Panasonic DP-UB820

Is there a setting I am missing?
Thanks for your time
There's a setting in the 820 that you can change from 2.2 HDMI to 1.4 which lets Netflix work on 1080p displays. It's been awhile since I've done it, but I'm pretty sure it will still output Atmos when downgrading to 1080p. As long as you are paying for the 4k/Atmos plan.
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post #6373 of 6754 Old 12-14-2019, 02:59 PM
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I will check that out. As far as buying a new TV that option is about 6 months away (Super Bowl sales) as I want to get a good one in the 1k to 2k range.

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post #6374 of 6754 Old 12-14-2019, 05:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
I’m surprised Vincent Teoh turned off the dynamic tone mapping and used the UB820 static tone mapping.
You shouldn't be - explained in my post yesterday, and Vincent himself explained in a very detailed video about it on YouTube too.

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post #6375 of 6754 Old 12-14-2019, 06:12 PM
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Can anyone please let me know what setting to change to run Netflix 4k (no HDR) for use with Epson 5040UB? No matter what I'm trying I can only get 1080 HDR from it!
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post #6376 of 6754 Old 12-14-2019, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
You shouldn't be - explained in my post yesterday, and Vincent himself explained in a very detailed video about it on YouTube too.
That explanation only makes sense if you can trust the metadata at all time.

And to me there’s no “heavy lifting” involved in any of the static tone mapping.
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Last edited by Dominic Chan; 12-14-2019 at 06:56 PM.
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post #6377 of 6754 Old 12-14-2019, 09:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
I’m surprised Vincent Teoh turned off the dynamic tone mapping and used the UB820 static tone mapping.
The 8 series LG OLED’s dynamic tone mapping darkens the whole picture when trying to deal with high nit content. The Panasonic only deals with the brightest part of the picture. To me this makes more sense. Maybe other displays use dynamic tone mapping better but in this instance the Panasonic does an overall better job than the LG.
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post #6378 of 6754 Old 12-14-2019, 09:18 PM
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Originally Posted by pwiss View Post
The 8 series LG OLED’s dynamic tone mapping darkens the whole picture when trying to deal with high nit content. The Panasonic only deals with the brightest part of the picture. To me this makes more sense. Maybe other displays use dynamic tone mapping better but in this instance the Panasonic does an overall better job than the LG.
That would be a logical explanation.
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post #6379 of 6754 Old 12-14-2019, 10:47 PM
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Sitting here watching The Arrival, 4k HDR. 802 HDR Optimizer is turned on, Dynamic Tone Mapping on my 55" LG Nano tv is turned off. I notice in dark scenes, when there is a local area of brightness there is an obvious area of faint brightness in the picture that flickers as the bright area moves in the scene. Outside the bright area the the picture is darker. Is this in the movie itself or do I have a setting wrong?
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post #6380 of 6754 Old 12-14-2019, 11:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Brettmckinney View Post
Can anyone please let me know what setting to change to run Netflix 4k (no HDR) for use with Epson 5040UB? No matter what I'm trying I can only get 1080 HDR from it!
If I recall correctly the 5050UB cannot accept a 4K60 4:2:2 12-bit signal. That is what Netflix insists on sending for HDR output.

Check what you have the 4K60 output setting at; if 4:2:0 you will not get HDR from Netflix on the UB820. Netflix will only output HDR if 4K60 output is set to 4:4:4.

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post #6381 of 6754 Old 12-14-2019, 11:59 PM
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Originally Posted by bluesky636 View Post
Sitting here watching The Arrival, 4k HDR. 802 HDR Optimizer is turned on, Dynamic Tone Mapping on my 55" LG Nano tv is turned off. I notice in dark scenes, when there is a local area of brightness there is an obvious area of faint brightness in the picture that flickers as the bright area moves in the scene. Outside the bright area the the picture is darker. Is this in the movie itself or do I have a setting wrong?
So I popped the 1080p Blu-Ray disc in the 820 and there is no evidence of flickering brightness in the picture. So the problem is either with the disc itself or the HDR settings. Any thoughts or suggestions?
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post #6382 of 6754 Old 12-15-2019, 05:15 AM
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Official Panasonic DP-UB820/824 Owner's Thread (No Price Talk)

Quote:
Originally Posted by claw View Post
If I recall correctly the 5050UB cannot accept a 4K60 4:2:2 12-bit signal. That is what Netflix insists on sending for HDR output.



Check what you have the 4K60 output setting at; if 4:2:0 you will not get HDR from Netflix on the UB820. Netflix will only output HDR if 4K60 output is set to 4:4:4.


Epson 5050UB has a full 18gbps HDMI chip that can run 4K HDR 60fps, 12bit 4:4:4

5040UB has the limited 10gbps HDMI chip.

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post #6383 of 6754 Old 12-15-2019, 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by bluesky636 View Post
Sitting here watching The Arrival, 4k HDR. 802 HDR Optimizer is turned on, Dynamic Tone Mapping on my 55" LG Nano tv is turned off. I notice in dark scenes, when there is a local area of brightness there is an obvious area of faint brightness in the picture that flickers as the bright area moves in the scene. Outside the bright area the the picture is darker. Is this in the movie itself or do I have a setting wrong?
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So I popped the 1080p Blu-Ray disc in the 820 and there is no evidence of flickering brightness in the picture. So the problem is either with the disc itself or the HDR settings. Any thoughts or suggestions?
Anybody? Any ideas? As it is, the 4k disc is unwatchable. I've ordered a new copy (arrives Tuesday) in case it is just the disc (I hope) but if it isn't, I have a problem.

Last edited by bluesky636; 12-15-2019 at 07:36 AM.
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post #6384 of 6754 Old 12-15-2019, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
That explanation only makes sense if you can trust the metadata at all time.
That is what you say to Vincent's entire videos, one sentence? . I knew I shouldn't have tried to summarize them - people pick at my summary instead of going off to watch them

Quote:
And to me there’s no “heavy lifting” involved in any of the static tone mapping.
Again, I won't try to summarise Vincent's videos again. It is his phrase not mine. I cannot force you to watch them, only repeat my recommendation that you do. No offence or argument intended, really

What I would say which I didn't before (clearly enough), is that dynamic tone-mapping aka "look at the picture and guess", can very often and very easily make mistakes because it doesn't know what it coming up next. So:
  • Any combination of settings which gives an improved picture whilst avoiding resorting to the TV's DTM is a good thing.
  • DTM is a bandage for poor tone-mapping results on TVs when receiving 4000 nit content, or even worse, content that has had or false metadata.
  • And neither of the above is ever needed at all, for the Dolby Vision or HDR10+ content which has dynamic metadata, scene-by-scene*, where you can give the TV the chance to do perfect tone-mapping by giving it perfect and accurate metadata.

For the 3rd case, not owning this player yet I would hope/expect it can obey the HDR10+ dynamic metadata, and perform the creator's instructed tone-mapping in the player, and then output the finished tone-mapped plain HDR10 stream to a HDR10-only TV. It would be crazy to them try to analyse that finished stream all over again in the TV using DTM, if you see what I mean.

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post #6385 of 6754 Old 12-15-2019, 09:50 AM
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Anybody? Any ideas? As it is, the 4k disc is unwatchable. I've ordered a new copy (arrives Tuesday) in case it is just the disc (I hope) but if it isn't, I have a problem.
The artistic choices made for The Arrival's HDR grading caused problems on some people's TVs. I don't think it's faulty but it obviously could be. Is this with all processing turned off inthe player, too?

There is a full detailed analysis of the "too dark" argument in this excellent video:

NB: please see the youtube comments for links to his other analysis videos, one of them explains his charts and what they mean in a lot more detail than the others but I can't remember which.

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post #6386 of 6754 Old 12-15-2019, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
The artistic choices made for The Arrival's HDR grading caused problems on some people's TVs. I don't think it's faulty but it obviously could be. Is this with all processing turned off in the player, too?

There is a full detailed analysis of the "too dark" argument in this excellent video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z48RV2REAnA

NB: please see the youtube comments for links to his other analysis videos, one of them explains his charts and what they mean in a lot more detail than the others but I can't remember which.
The settings I tried were as follows:


820 - HDR Optimizer ON; TV - Dynamic Tone Mapping ON


820 - HDR Optimizer ON; TV - Dynamic Tone Mapping OFF


820 - HDR Optimizer OFF; TV - Dynamic Tone Mapping ON


All three settings showed the same artifacts.


I do not remember if I tried the following:


820 - HDR Optimizer OFF; TV - Dynamic Tone Mapping OFF


I will try that setting tonight. I'll watch the video later.
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post #6387 of 6754 Old 12-15-2019, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesky636 View Post
The settings I tried were as follows:


820 - HDR Optimizer ON; TV - Dynamic Tone Mapping ON


820 - HDR Optimizer ON; TV - Dynamic Tone Mapping OFF


820 - HDR Optimizer OFF; TV - Dynamic Tone Mapping ON


All three settings showed the same artifacts.


I do not remember if I tried the following:


820 - HDR Optimizer OFF; TV - Dynamic Tone Mapping OFF


I will try that setting tonight. I'll watch the video later.
I just watched the video quickly on my phone. I did not see the artifacts that I see on my tv. They are hard to describe but basically in the scenes where an actor passes by a bright light or their faces are illuminated, there is a faint, hazy, light box around their faces while the scene on either side of them is noticeably darker.

I will try turning all HDR processing off tonight and report what happens.
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post #6388 of 6754 Old 12-15-2019, 10:50 AM
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...For the 3rd case, not owning this player yet I would hope/expect it can obey the HDR10+ dynamic metadata, and perform the creator's instructed tone-mapping in the player, and then output the finished tone-mapped plain HDR10 stream to a HDR10-only TV. It would be crazy to them try to analyse that finished stream all over again in the TV using DTM, if you see what I mean.
No, it does not have that capability. Maybe someday there will be a Player-led HDR10+ option similar to the Oppo Player-led Dolby Vision setting; an HDR10+ equivalent of LLDV.

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post #6389 of 6754 Old 12-15-2019, 11:10 AM
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No, it does not have that capability. Maybe someday there will be a Player-led HDR10+ option similar to the Oppo Player-led Dolby Vision setting; an HDR10+ equivalent of LLDV.
Interesting. Thanks for the info, certainly not a deal-breaking for me! Me one and only HDR10+ disc also has Dolby Vision anyway!

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post #6390 of 6754 Old 12-15-2019, 05:47 PM
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I just watched the video quickly on my phone. I did not see the artifacts that I see on my tv. They are hard to describe but basically in the scenes where an actor passes by a bright light or their faces are illuminated, there is a faint, hazy, light box around their faces while the scene on either side of them is noticeably darker.

I will try turning all HDR processing off tonight and report what happens.
So I turned HDR Optimizer off on the 820 and turned off both Dynamic Contrast and Dynamic Tone Mapping on the tv. No difference. Even tried a couple of different HDR Picture Modes on the tv. No difference. On the HDR disc there is a faint, flickering light area that surrounds any brightly lit (compared to the overall brightness of the scene) object or face. This artifact does not exist on the 1080p Blu-Ray. A new copy arrives from Amazon on Tuesday. I'll see then if it is an artifact of the disc itself.
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