Official Panasonic DP-UB820/824 Owner's Thread (No Price Talk) - Page 249 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #7441 of 7994 Old 04-29-2020, 03:50 PM
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Yamaha A3060

OK, Yamaha A3060 is DEFINITELY processing my video signal!
Again, I set video process as 'direct'. After directly connect 820 with my TV, I found noticeable, despite subtle, differences: images are definitely sharper, colors are slightly less saturated, color temperatures are more spot on. Also, it doesn't play HDR10+ when signal go through Yamaha. Now my TV automatically display HDR10+ when playing 1917. It used to display DV since Yamaha doesn't support HDR10+. There is no question that Yamaha is processing my video signal!

My questions are:
1. How to set Yamaha just pass through video signal to my TV without messing around?
2. How can I set up my 820 to default on DV instead of HDR10+ when both are available (like 1917)? I don't want to turn off HDR10+ just in case some disks just offer HDR10+.

Thanks.

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post #7442 of 7994 Old 04-29-2020, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Baruntse View Post
OK, Yamaha A3060 is DEFINITELY processing my video signal!
Again, I set video process as 'direct'. After directly connect 820 with my TV, I found noticeable, despite subtle, differences: images are definitely sharper, colors are slightly less saturated, color temperatures are more spot on. Also, it won't play HDR10+. Now my TV automatically display HDR10+ when playing 1917. It used to display DV since Yamaha doesn't support HDR10+. There is no question that Yamaha is processing my video signal!

My questions are:
1. How to set Yamaha just pass through video signal to my TV without messing around?
2. How can I set up my 820 to default on DV instead of HDR10+ when both are available (like 1917)? I don't want to turn off HDR10+ just in case some disks just offer HDR10+.

Thanks.
This is a question for the Yamaha thread. Your last post is confusing. The Yamaha doesn't process the video. It passes what it is told to pass between the display and the source device. What display do you have?

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post #7443 of 7994 Old 04-29-2020, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by teachsac View Post
This is a question for the Yamaha thread. Your last post is confusing. The Yamaha doesn't process the video. It passes what it is told to pass between the display and the source device. What display do you have?
I just posted this question to Yamaha forum.
Like I said, now I believe Yamaha IS processing my video signal. My TV is Vizio PX75.
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post #7444 of 7994 Old 04-29-2020, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Baruntse View Post
I just posted this question to Yamaha forum.
Like I said, now I believe Yamaha IS processing my video signal. My TV is Vizio PX75.
Your post is confusing. Are you saying you get DV when running the 820 through the Yamaha 3060 and HDR10+ when running the 820 straight to the display without going through the Yamaha?

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post #7445 of 7994 Old 04-29-2020, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by teachsac View Post
Your post is confusing. Are you saying you get DV when running the 820 through the Yamaha 3060 and HDR10+ when running the 820 straight to the display without going through the Yamaha?
Sorry for the confusion.
Running the 820 through the Yamaha 3060 I only got DV, never HDR10+.
Now when bypassing Yamaha 3060, I got HDR10+ by default. If I turn off HDR10+, then I get DV.
Hope this is clear.
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post #7446 of 7994 Old 04-29-2020, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Baruntse View Post
Sorry for the confusion.
Running the 820 through the Yamaha 3060 I only got DV, never HDR10+.
Now when bypassing Yamaha 3060, I got HDR10+ by default. If I turn off HDR10+, then I get DV.
Hope this is clear.
That's the way it is supposed to work. Since the 3060 does not support HDR10+ it only passes the DV metadata. It will not pass the HDR10+ metadata. When you by pass the Yamaha, it sounds like the Vizio prioritizes HDR10+ unless you disable HDR10+ setting.
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post #7447 of 7994 Old 04-29-2020, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by teachsac View Post
That's the way it is supposed to work. Since the 3060 does not support HDR10+ it only passes the DV metadata. It will not pass the HDR10+ metadata. When you by pass the Yamaha, it sounds like the Vizio prioritizes HDR10+ unless you disable HDR10+ setting.
Interesting. I thought if the signal is treated as bit-stream Yamaha should pass whatever comes in as it is to the TV. No?
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post #7448 of 7994 Old 04-29-2020, 05:51 PM
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Interesting. I thought if the signal is treated as bit-stream Yamaha should pass whatever comes in as it is to the TV. No?
No. If a receiver doesn't support HDR10+ or Dolby Vision metadata, it will not be passed to the display. Doesn't matter what the receiver brand is. That's why most players have 2 HDMI outputs.
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post #7449 of 7994 Old 04-29-2020, 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted by teachsac View Post
No. If a receiver doesn't support HDR10+ or Dolby Vision metadata, it will not be passed to the display. Doesn't matter what the receiver brand is. That's why most players have 2 HDMI outputs.
I got to say, that is all something that really confuses me on how some of these HDMI HDCP "standards" are being implemented by receivers. I understand the receiver has to add extra data and metadata to the stream (eg the audio and metadata on that) but I can't understand why they remove, especially as we are talking about VIDEO metadata, and the receiver is not doing stuff on the image.
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post #7450 of 7994 Old 04-29-2020, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by MOberhardt View Post
I got to say, that is all something that really confuses me on how some of these HDMI HDCP "standards" are being implemented by receivers. I understand the receiver has to add extra data and metadata to the stream (eg the audio and metadata on that) but I can't understand why they remove, especially as we are talking about VIDEO metadata, and the receiver is not doing stuff on the image.
Receivers don't add or delete anything. They simply tell the player that it doesn't support it, so don't send it.

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post #7451 of 7994 Old 04-29-2020, 06:34 PM
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Receivers don't add or delete anything. They simply tell the player that it doesn't support it, so don't send it.

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Ah right. So if you had a HD fury type device, between player and receiver, you could tell the player it did support HDR10+ so send it through?
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post #7452 of 7994 Old 04-29-2020, 06:38 PM
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Ah right. So if you had a HD fury type device, between player and receiver, you could tell the player it did support HDR10+ so send it through?
Not sure about that. Question for the HD Fury thread.

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post #7453 of 7994 Old 04-29-2020, 08:11 PM
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I agree. I only watched the film on Blu-ray, but it was one of the worst looking films I've ever seen. Like Baruntse I was wondering if there was something wrong with my system. And I agree with gadgtfreek, all well and good if that was the director's choice to make the film look like a half assed transfer of a low budget porn film from 1974, but it doesn't mean we have to like it.
Arrival was one of the first 4K UHD movies. Maybe the first, but I'm not sure about that. It was the one first I bought. It made me wonder if 4K was no better than BR. Maybe worse. The video was really bad in this movie. And video was the selling point of 4k.
Fortunately there have been some wonderful 4K UHD movies that have eased my fears.

As far as it being the directors choice, your right. It was his choice. A director is like a chef. He takes the ingredients- the screenplay, the actors, the cinematographer, the sound crew, etc., and mixes them together. If the 'meal' stinks he should not be praised for making a terrible dinner just because he wanted to make it that way.
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post #7454 of 7994 Old 04-29-2020, 08:20 PM
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Arrival was one of the first 4K UHD movies.

Nope.

Revenant
John Wick
Jack Reacher
Battleship
Deepwater Horizon
Sully Mag 7
Bat vs Super
Divergent
Creed
Gods of Egypt
Deadpool

Just to name a few way better demo discs. They made a choice, and a bad one. I like the movie, just a bad artistic choice.

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post #7455 of 7994 Old 04-29-2020, 10:10 PM
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Originally Posted by tngiloy View Post
Arrival was one of the first 4K UHD movies. Maybe the first, but I'm not sure about that. It was the one first I bought. It made me wonder if 4K was no better than BR. Maybe worse. The video was really bad in this movie. And video was the selling point of 4k.
Fortunately there have been some wonderful 4K UHD movies that have eased my fears.

As far as it being the directors choice, your right. It was his choice. A director is like a chef. He takes the ingredients- the screenplay, the actors, the cinematographer, the sound crew, etc., and mixes them together. If the 'meal' stinks he should not be praised for making a terrible dinner just because he wanted to make it that way.
I wonder whether the mastering of most UHD disks involves the director?

Arrival was mastered unpleasantly dark. Solo was pretty bad too. The Revenant wasn't much better, IMHO.

Maybe my hardware was just a poor match, but, if so, I wonder what system the disks were intended for. I saw none of those films in a theater, so I lack that basis for comparison.
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post #7456 of 7994 Old 04-29-2020, 10:21 PM
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Nope.

Revenant
John Wick
Jack Reacher
Battleship
Deepwater Horizon
Sully Mag 7
Bat vs Super
Divergent
Creed
Gods of Egypt
Deadpool

Just to name a few way better demo discs. They made a choice, and a bad one. I like the movie, just a bad artistic choice.
Interesting. At least a couple of those were pretty poor movies (not from an A/V perspective). Batman vs. Superman was lousy. I enjoyed Battleship, even if it was idiotic. Gods of Egypt was definately not Oscar material. Divergent was yet another teen rebel in a future dystopia movie; not wildly original. (And the first movie in the series was rather cheesily made. It apparently did well enough that they upped the budget for the sequels, or CGI got enough cheaper that they didn't have to.)

Maybe they're all good for short A/V demos, where the mediocrity (or worse) of the movie may not be obvious. I'm not sure that I'd play any for my cinephile frineds. (If I had any cinephile friends, which I do not.)
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post #7457 of 7994 Old 04-30-2020, 02:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Baruntse View Post
Sorry for the confusion.
Running the 820 through the Yamaha 3060 I only got DV, never HDR10+.
Now when bypassing Yamaha 3060, I got HDR10+ by default. If I turn off HDR10+, then I get DV.
Hope this is clear.
Just like there are AVRs that don't support Dolby Vision pass through, there are even more AVRs that don't support HDR10+ pass through.

When Vincent Teoh tested one of the first Dolby Vision plus HDR10+ UHD discs with a player and TV that supported both, he asked viewers whether they thought the player would output Dolby Vision or HDR10+. Most got it wrong and even Vincent was surprised that HDR10+ had priority and was output instead of Dolby Vision.

If you prefer HDR10+ over Dolby Vision then your best option is to connect the player's second audio output to your AVR.

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post #7458 of 7994 Old 04-30-2020, 03:38 AM
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Originally Posted by bobknavs View Post
I wonder whether the mastering of most UHD disks involves the director?

Arrival was mastered unpleasantly dark. Solo was pretty bad too. The Revenant wasn't much better, IMHO.

Maybe my hardware was just a poor match, but, if so, I wonder what system the disks were intended for. I saw none of those films in a theater, so I lack that basis for comparison.
I saw Arrival in the theater and the 4K disk is good rendering of it. It is a dark movie that will be that much darker on a smaller screen.
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post #7459 of 7994 Old 04-30-2020, 04:34 AM
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I saw Arrival in the theater and the 4K disk is good rendering of it. It is a dark movie that will be that much darker on a smaller screen.
Thankyou, and that was the only point I was making!

It's worth quoting the Digital Bits review from https://thedigitalbits.com/item/arrival-uhd-bd
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Spoiler!

For the comments about it being "unpleasantly dark", or the chef being "praised for making a terrible dinner" - very sorry but no, you've misunderstood, and unfortunately missed the "visual metaphor of the film" entirely. This is a shame because it's such a powerful film and that metaphor is central to the movie, so that dark look is very important!
You the consumer do not like it, and that is what Art is all about. Some might have thought it was "terrible" and they have the right to form that opinion, but it is only an opinion and not a fact because the overall look was an artistic choice. Some people will like and some will not. Some people loved the way the "dinner tasted". Even if it's just one person. It's art. Just because they thought it was "terrible", sorry but tough, that is not why we are here. The ONLY thing that matters is that you get an accurate rendition of what was intended, not what people like, and Arrival achieved that. They check these things before they press thousands of shiny discs, you know . If people don't like it, move on to another piece of Art instead, but Arrival said what Arrival wanted to say, exactly in the way Arrival wanted to say it.

If I went to an Art gallery and complained to the management because I didn't like or appreciate every single painting, they would treat me as a nutcase

Sorry for the OT post, but I felt I had to summarise the last run of posts because I didn't intend to re-open a long-finished discussion. It's simply untrue that it is a "bad" disc. It's true that it is a "controversial" disc, and this is a good thing otherwise life would be boring

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post #7460 of 7994 Old 04-30-2020, 07:32 AM
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so is the DP-UB820 the go to player for projectors that don't had native 4K / HDR?

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post #7461 of 7994 Old 04-30-2020, 12:43 PM
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(snip)

For the comments about it being "unpleasantly dark", or the chef being "praised for making a terrible dinner" - very sorry but no, you've misunderstood, and unfortunately missed the "visual metaphor of the film" entirely. This is a shame because it's such a powerful film and that metaphor is central to the movie, so that dark look is very important!

(snip)
I was the "unpleasantly dark" commentor. I respect the artistry of feeeelm, but I have this Philistine desire to see what the hell is going on.

I'm a bit surprised to see in the review that you linked that the tonal choices for the disk were deliberate. I guess that art can be a little cruel.

Aside from that, I'd place a small wager that the UHD disk version of Solo was a ****-up. I doubt that was intended as art-house cinema.
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post #7462 of 7994 Old 05-01-2020, 03:03 AM
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Originally Posted by bobknavs View Post
I was the "unpleasantly dark" commentor. I respect the artistry of feeeelm, but I have this Philistine desire to see what the hell is going on.

I'm a bit surprised to see in the review that you linked that the tonal choices for the disk were deliberate. I guess that art can be a little cruel.
Yes indeed, heh . That's one reason I posted - because here on AVS, everyone's so understandably focussed on "how it looks", the "what was intended" angle is often forgotten. And I do also have such a desire to see what is going on . But, I'm glad you seem to accept "oh well, that's what they intended" and I hope the review was interesting and gave you pause for thought - maybe even to watch that great movie again and enjoy it a little more than when you were frustrated at not being able to see absolutely everything, now you know the overarching intention of the darkness. It's just an artistic device like the green tint in The Matrix. I just wanted to correct the misnomer for "Arrival" that it was "too dark / faulty / a badly done disc".

Completely separately, then there's the old "black levels" argument in other movies where some might say "tough, my OLED is capable of perfect blacks, I demand perfect blacks, and if there's not perfect blacks, I'm going to tell the world it's a faulty disc and the black levels were mastered all wrong!". We suddenly have a world of armchair amateur colourists, film directors and video mastering experts whose only qualification is owning an expensive TV . This is anarchy. We cannot always inform them as sometimes they are just too zealot-like in their demanding of "perfect blacks" for every movie despite the artists not wanting them. I find the idea that the artist's intention should come secondary to the OLED-owner's every whim, I find that particular idea, to be horrific and the thin end of the wedge. That's IMHO

Quote:
Aside from that, I'd place a small wager that the UHD disk version of Solo was a ****-up. I doubt that was intended as art-house cinema.
Heh. I've only seen the HD blu-ray of that movie so I don't have an opinion but do I remember a fuss about it.
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post #7463 of 7994 Old 05-01-2020, 07:47 AM
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Does the UB820 have "Subtitle Shift" to move the Subtitles Up when displaying on a 2.35:1 Scope Screen?

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post #7464 of 7994 Old 05-01-2020, 07:49 AM
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Does the UB820 have "Subtitle Shift" to move the Subtitles Up when displaying on a 2.35:1 Scope Screen?
Yes

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post #7465 of 7994 Old 05-01-2020, 07:52 AM
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Yes

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What UB820 Remote Button/Function/Menu accesses the controls for the Subtitle Shift Function?

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post #7466 of 7994 Old 05-01-2020, 08:34 AM
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What UB820 Remote Button/Function/Menu accesses the controls for the Subtitle Shift Function?
Can't remember off hand. It's in the manual. Subtitle choices are in a sub-menu within (I think) the "Option" menu button. With a Harmony, I think you can get directly to the subtitle sub-menu.

These Panasonics have many customizable options for subtitles: position, size, brightness. These are great.

However, access is not simple. To turn on your primary language subtitles, there's a minimum of of seven button presses among four buttons. Option button, then direction and select buttons to navigate to subtitle sub-men. Direction buttons to turn subtitles on and choose options, then exit button twice to get the large option menu off the screen. With my Harmony I've reduced this to four presses among three buttons.

Contrast this with the Sony system: one dedicated button to cycle through subtitle languages. No giant menu on the screen, no need for an exit button. The small subtitle OSD disappears by itself. You press the subtitle button twice to get your primary language subtitles on the screen. That's it.

I still replaced my Sony player. The video superiority of the Panasonic for large screen projection is worth the hassle for me. I also have a scope screen, so I occasionally use the subtitle repositioning. Great to have when you need it. But realize going in, that the Panasonic is slower, less responsive, and more cumbersome to use than Sony.

Pip
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post #7467 of 7994 Old 05-01-2020, 08:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pip View Post
Can't remember off hand. It's in the manual. Subtitle choices are in a sub-menu within (I think) the "Option" menu button. With a Harmony, I think you can get directly to the subtitle sub-menu.

These Panasonics have many customizable options for subtitles: position, size, brightness. These are great.

However, access is not simple. To turn on your primary language subtitles, there's a minimum of of seven button presses among four buttons. Option button, then direction and select buttons to navigate to subtitle sub-men. Direction buttons to turn subtitles on and choose options, then exit button twice to get the large option menu off the screen. With my Harmony I've reduced this to four presses among three buttons.

Contrast this with the Sony system: one dedicated button to cycle through subtitle languages. No giant menu on the screen, no need for an exit button. The small subtitle OSD disappears by itself. You press the subtitle button twice to get your primary language subtitles on the screen. That's it.

I still replaced my Sony player. The video superiority of the Panasonic for large screen projection is worth the hassle for me. I also have a scope screen, so I occasionally use the subtitle repositioning. Great to have when you need it. But realize going in, that the Panasonic is slower, less responsive, and more cumbersome to use than Sony.

Pip
Thanks again.

Which Harmony Remote do you use and like?

Murray Kerdman
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post #7468 of 7994 Old 05-01-2020, 10:41 AM
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Hi is there anyone using this player with JVC projectors rs420 or more recent models ? I would like to know how to correct set them for SDR2020 and HDR content. Thank you!
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post #7469 of 7994 Old 05-01-2020, 10:47 AM
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I recently ordered a 2.35:1 screen and am torn between the Oppo 203 and the Panasonic 820 on which one to use. I like that the Oppo 203 has 21:9 aspect ratio which will help with 16x9 content since I don't have lens memory but the image of the Panasonic 820 is superior. I may keep the Panny in the theater room and just manually position for 16x9 content which isn't too much. (no tv and no gaming)

I could put them both in my theater room.... I may do that and see which one I like best and move the other out to the game room.

Are there any settings in the Panny to help with scope screens? I see the subtitle shift is a good one.
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post #7470 of 7994 Old 05-01-2020, 11:07 AM
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Yes for now @b_scott , either this one or the UB420.
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