Official Panasonic DP-UB820/824 Owner's Thread (No Price Talk) - Page 36 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1051 of 6145 Old 08-31-2018, 09:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glyssas View Post
The Edid on the Vertex that would allow both full HDR and SDR is always the full bandwidth HDR/BT2020 (was that EDID 11, I can't remember as I am away from home?). So, I would leave this as is.
For Disc Playback, just choose the SDR/BT2020 on the PLAYER with your preferred slider value. The tone-mapping works fine, but the JVC Macro fails to choose the correct User preset because the Panasonic still sends the HDR metadata and (seemingly) confuses the JVC Macro "if statements" ( I don't use the Macro so I don't know the exact code). So, this means you have to manually switch to the User mode where you had defined those settings (i.e. the BT2020 / gamma 2.4 / 6500 colour temp as Kris suggests, along with your slider value to suit your set-up).


When you want to watch Netflix, just switch to the HDR/BT2020 mode on the PLAYER. If you use the JVC Macro, I think this will bring up the correct curve (Custom or otherwise). If it does not, then manually choose your custom curve depending on the maxCLL (or other personal preferences) value of the Netflix stream as reported by the Vertex.

Let's say you are in Netflix HDR and you want to go back to UHD Disc playback: Then, (1) Exit Netflix, (2) go to the Player Settings and switch from HDR/BT2020 to SDR/BT2020 and then insert a disc. Then (for the time being until the JVC Macro is updated to accommodate this player) manually choose the User profile corresponding to the settings for viewing UHD Discs (e.g. BT2020 / gamma 2.4 / 6500 colour temp).

To be honest, I don't think the metadata the Panny sends is "wrong". It's just a matter of interpretation. It seems that the Panny considers the HDR -> SDR tone-mapping as "just another method of mapping HDR". Besides, for geeky reasons , I personally would like to know these metadata (nits mastered at; MaxcCLL/FALL, etc. as currently displayed by the Vertex).
According to HDfury in the Vertex thread the UB820 in SDR/BT2020 mode is sending EOTF1 with metadata when we have the 820 connected to a Vertex configured with an HDR supported EDID. I believe it is doing the same when connected directly to my JVC RS500 projector since the projector reports it is receiving HDR in the Information screen, but does not auto-switch to the internal HDR gamma. The JVC must be looking for EOTF2 before it will switch to HDR mode.

With the Vertex configured with a SDR BT.2020 EDID, the UB820 outputs an expected SDR BT.2020 signal with no metadata. I wonder what the Panasonic engineers thought HDR10 displays could do differently with the EOTF1 signal than with normal SDR BT.2020?

In HDR mode the UB820 would send EOTF2 (PQ).

I have asked HDfury if the Vertex Macros could be modified to:

Send HDR10 macro commands to the JVC only for EOTF2
Send SDR BT.2020 macro commands for EOTF1

CJ
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Last edited by claw; 08-31-2018 at 09:22 AM.
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post #1052 of 6145 Old 08-31-2018, 12:23 PM
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Just paired this player with my 65 E7 theatre tv and I am floored by it. Mind you I’m coming from a Sony 1000ES but to have Dolby vision for the first time from disc and with their great tone mapping in the player this is a real winner.

My 1000ES found a nice home with my Vizio Quantum downstairs.


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post #1053 of 6145 Old 08-31-2018, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by jmhilden View Post
Just paired this player with my 65 E7 theatre tv and I am floored by it. Mind you I’m coming from a Sony 1000ES but to have Dolby vision for the first time from disc and with their great tone mapping in the player this is a real winner.

My 1000ES found a nice home with my Vizio Quantum downstairs.
I assume you mean LG E7 65" OLED. If so then yeah, judging by paper specs at least, the 65" E7 needs this player for optimum quality, at least for some titles. What titles did you test?

The E8 would need it much less though, due to the new tone mapping curve adopted in the E8. The E8 could probably do pretty well with any Dolby Vision player, although the UB820 is still preferred IMO.
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post #1054 of 6145 Old 08-31-2018, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuGsArEtAsTy View Post
I assume you mean LG E7 65" OLED. If so then yeah, judging by paper specs at least, the 65" E7 needs this player for optimum quality, at least for some titles. What titles did you test?



The E8 would need it much less though, due to the new tone mapping curve adopted in the E8. The E8 could probably do pretty well with any Dolby Vision player, although the UB820 is still preferred IMO.


Yeah there have been others here that have said this player isn’t as big of deal for 8 series oleds but for mine it’s great. It’s my first chance to watch Dolby vision discs and so far it’s great. Testing out justice league right now.


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post #1055 of 6145 Old 08-31-2018, 02:45 PM
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After checking several options for Prime Video and whether the devices/apps I have will stream the new series Jack Ryan in both DV and Atmos, happy to report it does with the 820!
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post #1056 of 6145 Old 08-31-2018, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by CucNZ View Post
get a Zidoo X9S for your LAN/USB saved files

the X9S will do full 4k HDR Atmos/DTS-X true HD (but not DV)



the X9S is very good at 4k files,but isnt as well optimised for lower quality 720p/1080p (my 4k LG tv is far better handling those files or my older WDTV live boxes)

I’m sure you mean the X9S is not good at upscaling 720p / 1080p to 4K? Or does it have a problem playing those lower resolutions directly?

Thanks.

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post #1057 of 6145 Old 08-31-2018, 03:21 PM
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i just find the zidoo is darker,picture wise,and can suffer the odd stutter which is totally missing in the 4k files

i just use the built in Zidoo optimised media player thou,NOT Kodi ,which i never use at all

Kodi may be better optimized for the upscaling of the lower quality file types
but again

since my $3200 TV plays all the lower quality files far better than the $200 Zidoo,thats what i use

the Zidoo is used basiclly to bridge the gap between what my TVs built in media player can handle(anything not dolby atmos/DTS-X basicly)
and what my PC can handle via HDMI ( Atmos sorta...win atmos app is flaky at best...but no HDR ,since my GPU is the early 4k GTX 970...so no 10 bit plus output)

for $200 the Zidoo bridges that gap perfectly

thou i am watching the ATV 4k atmos development eagerly,to see if i should change a lifetime of not purcahsing Apple products :P
but i have the strong feeling that in the end Apple will only do a cut down atmos version only via streaming services,and block full atmos to the media player side of things ( Infuse )
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post #1058 of 6145 Old 08-31-2018, 03:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
I spent some time looking at this tonight (youtube and netflix HDR)

Netflix is pretty straight forward. it will not show HDR capable shows (Lost in Space) if you have the player set to SDR/BT2020. If it's set to HDR/BT2020 it plays fines in HDR and relies on the projector or TV's tone mapping. i'm using a well tuned 1200 nit arve curve and it looks really good. some of the TM tools are available but it's not recommended to use these as it would be layering over the projector's curve. I left everything at 0.

Youtube HDR appears to be a problem. I recall it being an issue on the UB900 and verified that as well tonight. By all accounts, the projector and vertex are reporting an HDR signal but the image is very de-saturated compared to how it should look. I have a method of downloading the HDR VP9 file from youtube and converting it to UHD HDR MKV for playback on the HTPC, Zidoo or Oppo media player. With this method, it looks substantially better vs. the UB820 process with Youtube HDR content. I recall going back and forth with the Roku Ultra and the UB900 and the Roku was clearly better. I think they need some work on the Youtube app.

I didn't get a chance to check prime, i'll try to look at that tomorrow.
This is too bad that Netflix will not show HDR shows while in SDR bt2020 mode. Were you or anybody else able to confirm if Prime is the same way? Thanks
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post #1059 of 6145 Old 08-31-2018, 04:57 PM
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I don't believe the inability to use streaming content and SDR BT2020 is an app-specific issue with Netflix. After all, the Oppo can take any input stream coming in via its HDMI input and apply tone mapping to that stream. The Panasonic should be able to do the same with any source.
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post #1060 of 6145 Old 08-31-2018, 05:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawks07 View Post
This is too bad that Netflix will not show HDR shows while in SDR bt2020 mode. Were you or anybody else able to confirm if Prime is the same way? Thanks
I was wondering the same thing about Amazon (as well as bt2020/SDR tone mapping to local files).
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post #1061 of 6145 Old 08-31-2018, 07:25 PM
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Basic Question on HDR Optimizer

Set up my 820 today, I am keeping my Oppo for now and will do some comparisons. I am using a JVC RS420 in low lamp mode. On the HDR optimizer slider, if 0 equals 350 nits, where do I put the slider for 300, 250, etc.? How many clicks in which direction? Trying to play with the settings, appreciate any help.
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post #1062 of 6145 Old 08-31-2018, 09:22 PM
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Picked up the player today. Still trying to figure it all out, but works well with my LG65C8.

So it looks like this player likes to upsample everything to 4:4:4 and 12bit color, from DVDs to Blu-rays, to UHD Blu-rays, which I believe are all 4:2:0 and 8bit/10bit color. Should the player be doing that or the TV (the 4:2:0 to 4:4:4)?

With regards to color, panels are 10bit, so what's the advantage of having the 12bit setting in the menu and the upsampling? Looks like it can be set to 10bit to match the TV/panel, but what's better and why?
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post #1063 of 6145 Old 08-31-2018, 10:13 PM
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Originally Posted by ghostwind View Post
Picked up the player today. Still trying to figure it all out, but works well with my LG65C8.

So it looks like this player likes to upsample everything to 4:4:4 and 12bit color, from DVDs to Blu-rays, to UHD Blu-rays, which I believe are all 4:2:0 and 8bit/10bit color. Should the player be doing that or the TV (the 4:2:0 to 4:4:4)?

With regards to color, panels are 10bit, so what's the advantage of having the 12bit setting in the menu and the upsampling? Looks like it can be set to 10bit to match the TV/panel, but what's better and why?
In Vincent Teoh's comparison of the Oppo 203 vs. the UB900 last year, with the 4:4:4 setting the image quality was the best, and better on the UB900 than the Oppo.

So, presumably, the same is true with the UB820.

Great TV by the way. I got the same one last week. It's actually a noticeable improvement in terms of image processing over the B7 I had in the house the week before.
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post #1064 of 6145 Old 08-31-2018, 10:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Hawks07 View Post
This is too bad that Netflix will not show HDR shows while in SDR bt2020 mode. Were you or anybody else able to confirm if Prime is the same way? Thanks

I can't seem to get HDR content with the prime application with either the SDR or HDR setting. HDR still works fine for Netflix, we would need someone else to confirm if the amazon app is behaving. I checked a few shows that should be HDR.
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post #1065 of 6145 Old 08-31-2018, 10:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gravi View Post
Set up my 820 today, I am keeping my Oppo for now and will do some comparisons. I am using a JVC RS420 in low lamp mode. On the HDR optimizer slider, if 0 equals 350 nits, where do I put the slider for 300, 250, etc.? How many clicks in which direction? Trying to play with the settings, appreciate any help.

How big is your screen? any gain? Set the player for SDR/BT2020, leave the slider at 0. JVC to user mode 1, BT2020, Gamma 2.4 and see how it looks with familar content. I use Lucy and Mad Max as my 2 go to discs for checking the tone mapping settings.

the settings are a bit different than the oppo. Slider to the left of 0 = darker, right = brighter
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post #1066 of 6145 Old 09-01-2018, 02:30 AM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
I can't seem to get HDR content with the prime application with either the SDR or HDR setting. HDR still works fine for Netflix, we would need someone else to confirm if the amazon app is behaving. I checked a few shows that should be HDR.
Neither can I. Vertex reports HDR REC709 8-bit for Goliath, but it is obviously not HDR as I have to use my SDR REC709 user mode in my RS500 to get correct color. JVC Information page also reports 8-bit HDR.

With the Vertex MCU patch provided by HDfury today installed, the SDR Film macro is executed.

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post #1067 of 6145 Old 09-01-2018, 03:59 AM
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Originally Posted by claw View Post
Neither can I. Vertex reports HDR REC709 8-bit for Goliath, but it is obviously not HDR as I have to use my SDR REC709 user mode in my RS500 to get correct color. JVC Information page also reports 8-bit HDR.

With the Vertex MCU patch provided by HDfury today installed, the SDR Film macro is executed.
Hi guys, I got my wife's family over for the weekend so had to check this one quickly.

It's strange. The Amazon Prime stream takes a few seconds to "get going". In the beginning it's blurred. I tried Jack Ryan. It's supposed to be 4k HDR.
Please note that I have an older version of the Vertex (1.30.x.x I can't remember now). And, (this shouldn't matter anymore) I do have the "Disable HDR" ticked.
Also, I don't use the JVC Macro.
I have an RS400

Test1: Panny on SDR/BT2020.

Opened Jack Ryan quickly. It did not look right and sorry but I can't remember what the Vertex reported. I hit the back button and waited a few seconds while still in the app. Opened the Jack Ryan again and BINGO: (See file Prime_SD_BT2020 attached).

Test2: Panny on HDR/BT2020

Same thing. Opened Jack Ryan quickly. Image blurred. Went back to app main menu and waited a few seconds. Then opened Jack Ryan again. BINGO (See Prime_HDR_BT2020 atached. See that the Vertex reports SMTPE ST.2084 this time around). Looks great with my Arve 1200 nit curve for the couple of seconds I could check btw :-)

I also noticed that at least in my case, the stream was not as stable as with Netflix. After a a minute of two the stream started freezing and restarting. I never had this problem with Netflix. Anyway guys, sorry I have to run. Already being labeled as unsocial here ...

Please try waiting 30 seconds before starting the stream and if it doesn't start as expected go back and try again.

Cheers
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post #1068 of 6145 Old 09-01-2018, 06:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuGsArEtAsTy View Post
In Vincent Teoh's comparison of the Oppo 203 vs. the UB900 last year, with the 4:4:4 setting the image quality was the best, and better on the UB900 than the Oppo.

So, presumably, the same is true with the UB820.

Great TV by the way. I got the same one last week. It's actually a noticeable improvement in terms of image processing over the B7 I had in the house the week before.
I had to Google that guy's video you mentioned. Good stuff, and thanks, but the takeaway was that there is no answer to either upsampling or color depth - it's dependent on your TV, so I will test over the weekend which does it better using some test patterns from the old Spears & Munsil Blu-ray I still have. I do remember now that he mentioned it, that some TVs do convert back from 4:4:4 to 4:2:0 and then back to 4:4:4, making it moot to do it in the player. I'll also spend the weekend looking at Matt Damon and Ben Affleck (The Martian and S vs Batman) to see gradation for 12bit vs 10bit in The Martian and HDR optimizer on or off with Ben Affleck's shirt
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post #1069 of 6145 Old 09-01-2018, 07:26 AM
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Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
How big is your screen? any gain? Set the player for SDR/BT2020, leave the slider at 0. JVC to user mode 1, BT2020, Gamma 2.4 and see how it looks with familar content. I use Lucy and Mad Max as my 2 go to discs for checking the tone mapping settings.

the settings are a bit different than the oppo. Slider to the left of 0 = darker, right = brighter
I have 125" 2.35 screen, I believe it's a 1.3 gain (Carada BW screen). I have the same settings as above that I use with the Oppo and the picture looks good. I was just wondering how the scale on the dynamic optimizer translates to target nits, so if I know my target is 300 where should the slider be?
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post #1070 of 6145 Old 09-01-2018, 08:43 AM
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Hi Guys,

I just picked up the UB820 yesterday and have two problems with it. The first one is that the drive is extremely noisy. Its so bad that I can hear it most of the time while watching a disc. The second problem is trying to play my 4K Blu-ray of Starship Troopers. It will jump around and skip over entire chapters while playing. It eventually just gives up and goes back to the movies main menu. I thought maybe my copy was bad but it plays perfectly on my 1st gen Samsung 4K player. Do I have a bad unit? Can anyone confirm if they have the same issue with his copy of the disc. Any help would be much appreciated.
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post #1071 of 6145 Old 09-01-2018, 09:44 AM
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Hi Guys,

I just picked up the UB820 yesterday and have two problems with it. The first one is that the drive is extremely noisy. Its so bad that I can hear it most of the time while watching a disc. The second problem is trying to play my 4K Blu-ray of Starship Troopers. It will jump around and skip over entire chapters while playing. It eventually just gives up and goes back to the movies main menu. I thought maybe my copy was bad but it plays perfectly on my 1st gen Samsung 4K player. Do I have a bad unit? Can anyone confirm if they have the same issue with his copy of the disc. Any help would be much appreciated.
Starship troopers is a known authoring issue. Put in at least a 1 gig usb drive for memory.


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post #1072 of 6145 Old 09-01-2018, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by dlbsyst View Post
Hi Guys,

I just picked up the UB820 yesterday and have two problems with it. The first one is that the drive is extremely noisy. Its so bad that I can hear it most of the time while watching a disc. The second problem is trying to play my 4K Blu-ray of Starship Troopers. It will jump around and skip over entire chapters while playing. It eventually just gives up and goes back to the movies main menu. I thought maybe my copy was bad but it plays perfectly on my 1st gen Samsung 4K player. Do I have a bad unit? Can anyone confirm if they have the same issue with his copy of the disc. Any help would be much appreciated.
I don't hear my drive at all during a movie. Are you on the latest firmware?
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post #1073 of 6145 Old 09-01-2018, 10:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glyssas View Post
Hi guys, I got my wife's family over for the weekend so had to check this one quickly.

It's strange. The Amazon Prime stream takes a few seconds to "get going". In the beginning it's blurred. I tried Jack Ryan. It's supposed to be 4k HDR.
Please note that I have an older version of the Vertex (1.30.x.x I can't remember now). And, (this shouldn't matter anymore) I do have the "Disable HDR" ticked.
Also, I don't use the JVC Macro.
I have an RS400

Test1: Panny on SDR/BT2020.

Opened Jack Ryan quickly. It did not look right and sorry but I can't remember what the Vertex reported. I hit the back button and waited a few seconds while still in the app. Opened the Jack Ryan again and BINGO: (See file Prime_SD_BT2020 attached).

Test2: Panny on HDR/BT2020

Same thing. Opened Jack Ryan quickly. Image blurred. Went back to app main menu and waited a few seconds. Then opened Jack Ryan again. BINGO (See Prime_HDR_BT2020 atached. See that the Vertex reports SMTPE ST.2084 this time around). Looks great with my Arve 1200 nit curve for the couple of seconds I could check btw :-)

I also noticed that at least in my case, the stream was not as stable as with Netflix. After a a minute of two the stream started freezing and restarting. I never had this problem with Netflix. Anyway guys, sorry I have to run. Already being labeled as unsocial here ...

Please try waiting 30 seconds before starting the stream and if it doesn't start as expected go back and try again.

Cheers
I noticed your screen shot of the Vertex OSD reports 4K60 4:2:2 12-bit.

So I checked the UB820 user manual.

To connect to a TV that supports 4K60p (4:4:4/8 bit) or 4K60p (4:2:2/12 bit) select "4K/60p (4:4:4)".

To connect to a TV that supports 4K/60p (4:2:0/8 bit), select "4K60p(4:2:0)".

That is a bit counter intuitive to me. When I first set up my 820 and saw the menu choices for 4:2:0 and 4:4:4, I assumed I should choose 4:2:0 since it can be output at 4K60 12 bit. I thought choosing 4:4:4 would limit 4K60 to 8-bit. There was no 4:2:2 option.

I will change the setting to 4:4:4 later today and see if that results in 4:2:2 12-bit HDR from Amazon Prime.

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Last edited by claw; 09-01-2018 at 10:20 AM.
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post #1074 of 6145 Old 09-01-2018, 10:50 AM
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Starship troopers is a known authoring issue. Put in at least a 1 gig usb drive for memory.


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Thanks teachsac. Putting a USB drive in the player helps with the playback? How does it do this? Thanks.
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post #1075 of 6145 Old 09-01-2018, 10:51 AM
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Thanks teachsac. Putting a USB drive in the player helps with the playback? How does it do this? Thanks.
BDLive authoring error. At least 1 Gig of memory is needed to play that movie.

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post #1076 of 6145 Old 09-01-2018, 10:52 AM
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I don't hear my drive at all during a movie. Are you on the latest firmware?
I am using the latest 1.25 firmware.
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post #1077 of 6145 Old 09-01-2018, 10:54 AM
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BDLive authoring error. At least 1 Gig of memory is needed to play that movie.
Interesting. Thanks.
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post #1078 of 6145 Old 09-01-2018, 12:07 PM
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Hi guys, I got my wife's family over for the weekend so had to check this one quickly.

It's strange. The Amazon Prime stream takes a few seconds to "get going". In the beginning it's blurred. I tried Jack Ryan. It's supposed to be 4k HDR.
Please note that I have an older version of the Vertex (1.30.x.x I can't remember now). And, (this shouldn't matter anymore) I do have the "Disable HDR" ticked.
Also, I don't use the JVC Macro.
I have an RS400

Test1: Panny on SDR/BT2020.

Opened Jack Ryan quickly. It did not look right and sorry but I can't remember what the Vertex reported. I hit the back button and waited a few seconds while still in the app. Opened the Jack Ryan again and BINGO: (See file Prime_SD_BT2020 attached).

Test2: Panny on HDR/BT2020

Same thing. Opened Jack Ryan quickly. Image blurred. Went back to app main menu and waited a few seconds. Then opened Jack Ryan again. BINGO (See Prime_HDR_BT2020 atached. See that the Vertex reports SMTPE ST.2084 this time around). Looks great with my Arve 1200 nit curve for the couple of seconds I could check btw :-)

I also noticed that at least in my case, the stream was not as stable as with Netflix. After a a minute of two the stream started freezing and restarting. I never had this problem with Netflix. Anyway guys, sorry I have to run. Already being labeled as unsocial here ...

Please try waiting 30 seconds before starting the stream and if it doesn't start as expected go back and try again.

Cheers

Thanks for the info, I was able to get it to work today with Jack Ryan. it's odd because I didn't change anything.

It looks great, sharpness and WCG has excellent color but am seeing some stuttering during playback. I have verizon fiber and it doesn't happen in netflix. Maybe some others can check and confirm

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post #1079 of 6145 Old 09-01-2018, 12:14 PM
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I noticed your screen shot of the Vertex OSD reports 4K60 4:2:2 12-bit.

So I checked the UB820 user manual.

To connect to a TV that supports 4K60p (4:4:4/8 bit) or 4K60p (4:2:2/12 bit) select "4K/60p (4:4:4)".

To connect to a TV that supports 4K/60p (4:2:0/8 bit), select "4K60p(4:2:0)".

That is a bit counter intuitive to me. When I first set up my 820 and saw the menu choices for 4:2:0 and 4:4:4, I assumed I should choose 4:2:0 since it can be output at 4K60 12 bit. I thought choosing 4:4:4 would limit 4K60 to 8-bit. There was no 4:2:2 option.

I will change the setting to 4:4:4 later today and see if that results in 4:2:2 12-bit HDR from Amazon Prime.

that setting is a little confusing, try changing it and see if you can get it to work. I'm on the 4:4:4 it will go to 4:2:2 with 4K/60. Please let me know if you see micro-stuttering in the stream, i'm seeing brief skips every 1-2 mins. Netflix Lost in Space was perfect in a back to back test. thx!
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post #1080 of 6145 Old 09-01-2018, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Glyssas View Post
Please try waiting 30 seconds before starting the stream and if it doesn't start as expected go back and try again.

Cheers

Hi, something is definitely buggy with the prime app and HDR. With no other changes in the systen, I was jumping from episode to episode. Sometimes it would pass HDR correctly and other times it wouldn't. I had to stop and restart multiple times to get it to work. Once it's locked, it will stay ok for the duration of that viewing. I'll post some info the BR forum since they have direct access to Panasonic from one of the US dealers.
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