Official Panasonic DP-UB820/824 Owner's Thread (No Price Talk) - Page 45 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1321 of 6148 Old 09-13-2018, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Erod View Post
It's disabled everywhere. This is just what the ub820 does when you switch sources. Wasn't the case with the ub900.
I just find it weird, i mean if this is the "normal"operation of the UB820. I was checking the user's manual and it mentions that the situation happens if Viera Link is ON.
Now, if I were you, I would double check the Viera Link setting on the player.
The only way I can think of that the player would turn itself off on an input change on the TV would be that the player is ALWAYS checking for a live HDMI connection. In such a case
it would also turn off if by accident you turn your TV off.
If it's not too much to ask, to what device you have the player connected to?
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post #1322 of 6148 Old 09-13-2018, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Sailor08 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erod View Post
It's disabled everywhere. This is just what the ub820 does when you switch sources. Wasn't the case with the ub900.
I just find it weird, i mean if this is the "normal"operation of the UB820. I was checking the user's manual and it mentions that the situation happens if Viera Link is ON.
Now, if I were you, I would double check the Viera Link setting on the player.
The only way I can think of that the player would turn itself off on an input change on the TV would be that the player is ALWAYS checking for a live HDMI connection. In such a case
it would also turn off if by accident you turn your TV off.
If it's not too much to ask, to what device you have the player connected to?
I'll check the Vierra Link settings, thanks.

It's connected to a JVC rs620 through an Anthem 60 processor. I have a Vertex, too, but when I removed it, it didn't change anything.

Video: JVC RS620/X9500 projector, Stewart ST130 screen, Panasonic ub820 UHD player
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post #1323 of 6148 Old 09-13-2018, 02:47 PM
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I've been using a UB820 player now for about a week with my JVC RS600 projector (the UB820 replaced an Oppo 203). It appears the 820's HDR optimizer and its settings work well when playing 4K Blu-ray discs with the player set to output in SDR/2020 format (which works well for 4K compatible projectors). However, with these same settings for the HDR optimizer are not available when using the built-in apps (e.g., Amazon) for playing UHD/HDR content. The 820's onscreen message says the HDR Optimizer is only available for HDR output. It appears the player is applying HDR to SDR conversion (since I'm using the SDR/2020 setting for the HDMI output) but it's blocking out the tone mapping adjustments and optimization adjustments. Anyone heard either if there is a work around or if Panasonic, thru a firmware update, may enable HDR optimizer functionality for the streaming apps the same as already offered when playing 4K Blu-rays?
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post #1324 of 6148 Old 09-13-2018, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Ron Jones View Post
I've been using a 820 player now for about a week with my JVC projector (the 820 replaced an Oppo 203). It appears the 820's HDR optimizer and its settings work well when playing 4K Blu-ray discs with the player set to output in SDR/2020 format (which works well for 4K compatible projectors). However, with these same settings for the HDR optimizer are not available when using the built-in apps (e.g., Amazon) for playing UHD/HDR content. The 820's onscreen message says the HDR Optimizer is only available for HDR output. It appears the player is applying HDR to SDR conversion but it's blocking out the tone mapping adjustments and optimization adjustments. Anyone heard either if there is a work around or if Panasonic my enable HDR optimizer functionality for the streaming apps the same as already offered when playing 4K Blu-rays?
Great question! I would love if it does all its tone mapping wizardry with netflix and vudu!

With the new ATV now out doing HDR/Atmos, that might replace a lot of my hard disc watching, as it was nearly impossible to rent UHD/Atmos titles. VUDU should up, but even they were pretty limited. Looks like Apple will release every new atmos/uhd title available. VUDU only had agreements with a few production companies.

I'll still buy some hard discs, but will be doing more streaming.
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post #1325 of 6148 Old 09-13-2018, 09:59 PM
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Originally Posted by ^TANK^ View Post
Hello everyone I was hoping someone could clear.this up for me please?

I spoke to a Panasonic engineer and he said that DP-UB820 models prime video app doesn't support HDR content and wont be receiving an update to rectify this problem in the future , is this true? Dolby Visor works just fine.

The Netflix app seems to always be set in Dolby Vision mode. As soon as I fire the app up the logo in the top right hand corner displays the icon without fail. Regardless of what content I'm watching or just scrolling through the interface it's activated.

Is my Blu Ray player broke via OS or are the apps broken?




Is anyone using the
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Originally Posted by MarkyM View Post
Well, I can confirm that I can't seem to get the Amazon app to do HDR. I'm not even sure its doing UHD. I wonder why they would say that it won't be receiving an update?

I have Dolby Vision turned off on my 820 because my 2016 OLED can't be calibrated in that mode and I don't use it.

But the Netflix app is working great with HDR and Atmos.
I can confirm that I am getting both HDR10 and DV on my UB820 with Amazon Prime here in Canada.

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post #1326 of 6148 Old 09-14-2018, 05:49 AM
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I can confirm that I am getting both HDR10 and DV on my UB820 with Amazon Prime here in Canada.
I am now getting Amazon HDR as well. I’m not sure what I did but it is working now.

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post #1327 of 6148 Old 09-14-2018, 06:35 AM
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Well if you can both work out what settings I need, please let me know as I'm going out of my mind and Panasonic are about as useless as a fart in a space suit.
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post #1328 of 6148 Old 09-14-2018, 07:19 AM
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Possibly very interested in this player to add to my Oppo 203 (I still need the latter for DVD-A/SACD or another player for that) and of course would miss the HDMI input. Kris's review was first rate, so I finally understand the TM issue(s). I could wait for 2019 models.



My system includes Sony 675ES (4k/HDR capable) and I am somewhat confused regarding:


1-whether to let the 820 do the HDR processing or not on 4k HDR UHD. That is what output settings on 820 with this projector. Could experiment, of course, but there should be preferences by now.



2-what happens with DV UHD discs (projector of course not compatible). Again, what settings for DV output to projector. Same for HDR10+ but don't know if any discs out yet. Don't think projector handles this, but unsure.



3-I rarely stream, but do on occasion (Netflix usually). Read reviews prior to any FW updates regarding this. Was this capability added (presume yes) and how does it function with 4k HDR/Atmos? Again, what output settings to projector?


Thanks,

Mike

Theater: Lyngdorf MP-50 7.3.4, Sony VW675ES, Revel Ultima Salon2/Voice2/Gem2(4)/Paradigm Be Atmos (4), Mark Levinson amps (53 L/R, 532 Center biamped, 531H side/surrounds), Atmos amp: Sherbourn, Oppo 203, Roku Ultra Premier+, DTV 4k, Velodyne 1812 Signature (LFE), Velodyne DD-15.
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post #1329 of 6148 Old 09-14-2018, 07:22 AM
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Well I just booted up Prime Video again and stuck the Gran Tour on in 4k Ultra HD with HDR and it worked! Icon came up in the top right hand corner and I have no explanation to why it's working now.

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post #1330 of 6148 Old 09-14-2018, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by normandia View Post
.... That is what output settings on 820 with this projector. Could experiment, of course, but there should be preferences by now.
Setting up your display or projector

- set up your display as if viewing non hdr content.

- choose bt2020 color on your display. If bt2020 is not available run the 820 in SDR BT709 mode. The 820 will map the bt2020 color gamut to the bt709 color space. Not preferred, but still provide very good reproduction.

- gamma 2.4... A normal gamma setting is usually a 2.2 gamma. This will still work, but the lower end will be a little darker with 2.4. Switching between 2.4 up thru 2.0 is a good way to manage shadow detail.

- leave your display contrast, brightness, tint, color to your calibrated settings for normal HD content.

820 settings

- i use the LCD/PROJECTOR display option

- SDR BT 2020 ... if you have bt2020 color option on your display

- SDR BT 709 ... if you do not have bt 2020 color option on your display (this have the 820 remap the bt2020 gamut to bt709 and provides very good color reproduction, although not as good as SDR BT2020 with a bt2020 filter)

- DO NOT use the 820 HDR BT 2020 mode with your displays HDR mode, as i have found mixing HDR tone mapping of the display with the 820 HDR tone mapping can produce unintended artifacts. There maybe a way to make this work as well as SDR BT2020, but could not find such settings on my jvc x990 that were better than SDR BT2020.

- Optimizer = ON

- Luminance slider = i use +4 to +6 (i have tried up to +9 ... +11 & +12 causes some artifacts to appear in skin tones, such as the Guardians in the Sovereign throne room.)

- Brightness = 0 (no reason to change since your display has been calibrated to proper black floor)

- White level = 0 (i have tried lowering to the point of white crush ... you can try -5 or -6, but I'm not sure how this might limit the auto tone mapping on some content, so i leave it at 0 )

- Black level = 0 (you can adjust to reveal more or less shadow detail, changing gamma on display (2.4, 2.3, 2.2, 2.1, 2.0) also works well)

Set other 820 picture controls to taste, but i leave them at default settings.

You can check the x990 calibration link in my sig which includes the the 820 setups.
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post #1331 of 6148 Old 09-14-2018, 09:16 AM
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^^^
Thanks for the information! and for the link as well.


Specifically about HDR mode, you stated:
DO NOT use the 820 HDR BT 2020 mode with your displays HDR mode, as I have found mixing HDR tone mapping of the display with the 820 HDR tone mapping can produce unintended artifacts. There maybe a way to make this work as well as SDR BT2020, but could not find such settings on my jvc x990 that were better than SDR BT2020.


That was and is my concern.

Your projector settings leaves HDR mode ON with 2020 color space (as I do), but you are feeding it SDR 2020 (not HDR).


Since my projector (and yours) is 2020/HDR compatible, and you suggesting that you prefer the SDR2020...does that imply you are NOT using the HDR info just TM to SDR? My brain doesn't understand that this is simply the same as turning off the benefits of having an HDR in the projector, which I and you paid a premium for. I do understand the TM conflict issue.


Can you elaborate on what specifically happens when you send HDR? You mentioned "artifacts". Are these possibly associated with not having a True 4k display (which the 675 is)?

Theater: Lyngdorf MP-50 7.3.4, Sony VW675ES, Revel Ultima Salon2/Voice2/Gem2(4)/Paradigm Be Atmos (4), Mark Levinson amps (53 L/R, 532 Center biamped, 531H side/surrounds), Atmos amp: Sherbourn, Oppo 203, Roku Ultra Premier+, DTV 4k, Velodyne 1812 Signature (LFE), Velodyne DD-15.
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Last edited by normandia; 09-14-2018 at 09:22 AM.
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post #1332 of 6148 Old 09-14-2018, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by normandia View Post
^^^Since my projector (and yours) is 2020/HDR compatible, and you suggesting that you prefer the SDR2020...does that imply you are NOT using the HDR info just TM to SDR? My brain doesn't understand that this is simply the same as turning off the benefits of having an HDR in the projector, which I and you paid a premium for. I
Can you elaborate on what specifically happens when you send HDR? You mentioned "artifacts". Are these possibly associated with not having a True 4k display (which the 675 is)?
My x990 settings for SDR BT2020 are not HDR. You only have HDR mode when using the st2084 gamma option. By using custom gamma 2.4, you are v ack in the SDR gamma space. I recommend HDR in the 2nd spot, but it could also 6500k, as HDR on the jvc is 6500k.

Think of it this way, imagine you have HDR luminance range being mapped to the SDR luminance range. Then you have the bt2020 wide color gamut (WGC ) being carried when you use the bt2020 filter while in SDR bt2020.

So you are squeezing the high dynamic luminance range of HDR into the low dynamic luminance range of SDR, while maintaining the WCG of HDR.

Make sense?

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post #1333 of 6148 Old 09-14-2018, 11:26 AM
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I tried both BT2020 on the projector (JVC 520) with Gama 2.4 to SDR/BT2020 on the player and optimizer on vs HDR on the projector to HDR on the player and it was obvious to me that the BT2020/SDR2020 option indeed looked the best. I would advise everyone to try different settings to see what they like but I can certainly see why Kris recommended this for projector owners it really took my HDR viewing to the next level.
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post #1334 of 6148 Old 09-14-2018, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bytehoven View Post
Setting up your display or projector

- set up your display as if viewing non hdr content.

- choose bt2020 color on your display. If bt2020 is not available run the 820 in SDR BT709 mode. The 820 will map the bt2020 color gamut to the bt709 color space. Not preferred, but still provide very good reproduction.

- gamma 2.4... A normal gamma setting is usually a 2.2 gamma. This will still work, but the lower end will be a little darker with 2.4. Switching between 2.4 up thru 2.0 is a good way to manage shadow detail.

- leave your display contrast, brightness, tint, color to your calibrated settings for normal HD content.

820 settings

- i use the LCD/PROJECTOR display option

- SDR BT 2020 ... if you have bt2020 color option on your display

- SDR BT 709 ... if you do not have bt 2020 color option on your display (this have the 820 remap the bt2020 gamut to bt709 and provides very good color reproduction, although not as good as SDR BT2020 with a bt2020 filter)

- DO NOT use the 820 HDR BT 2020 mode with your displays HDR mode, as i have found mixing HDR tone mapping of the display with the 820 HDR tone mapping can produce unintended artifacts. There maybe a way to make this work as well as SDR BT2020, but could not find such settings on my jvc x990 that were better than SDR BT2020.

- Optimizer = ON

- Luminance slider = i use +4 to +6 (i have tried up to +9 ... +11 & +12 causes some artifacts to appear in skin tones, such as the Guardians in the Sovereign throne room.)

- Brightness = 0 (no reason to change since your display has been calibrated to proper black floor)

- White level = 0 (i have tried lowering to the point of white crush ... you can try -5 or -6, but I'm not sure how this might limit the auto tone mapping on some content, so i leave it at 0 )

- Black level = 0 (you can adjust to reveal more or less shadow detail, changing gamma on display (2.4, 2.3, 2.2, 2.1, 2.0) also works well)

Set other 820 picture controls to taste, but i leave them at default settings.

You can check the x990 calibration link in my sig which includes the the 820 setups.
Note the the HDR TV Type is not used when in SDR/BT2020 output mode. Only used when outputting HDR. It doesn't hurt to set it but it won't make a difference in the tone mapping.

In SDR/BT2020 mode (according to Kris Deering),

- If HDR Optimizer is turned on, it tone maps to a target determined from the MaxCLL and MaxDML values in the HDR metadata.
- If HDR Optimizer is turned off, it tone maps to a default 1000 nit target.

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JVC RS500|LG B7A OLED|Denon X6400H/X4200W|Panasonic UB820|Two Oppo 203|Samsung K8500|Apple TV 4K|HDfury Diva/Vertex/Linker/Integral
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post #1335 of 6148 Old 09-14-2018, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Bytehoven View Post
My x990 settings for SDR BT2020 are not HDR. You only have HDR mode when using the st2084 gamma option. By using custom gamma 2.4, you are v ack in the SDR gamma space. I recommend HDR in the 2nd spot, but it could also 6500k, as HDR on the jvc is 6500k.

Think of it this way, imagine you have HDR luminance range being mapped to the SDR luminance range. Then you have the bt2020 wide color gamut (WGC ) being carried when you use the bt2020 filter while in SDR bt2020.

So you are squeezing the high dynamic luminance range of HDR into the low dynamic luminance range of SDR, while maintaining the WCG of HDR.

Make sense?
I do completely understand the tone mapping (after reading Kris' article) and that SDR/BT2020 is not HDR, so it makes perfect sense and thank you and others for explaining this.



My question then is that owners with HDR in projectors are NOT using that feature, so one is not watching HDR. The preference, as I understand is to just TM to SDR while keeping the expanded color space, which I also perfectly understand.



Regarding the HDR Optimizer, in SDR/2020, this would be off. Correct?



So my question is why does one need an HDR projector if this is the case?
How does one watch HDR? if ever?


My confusion is that the HDMI Optimizer is also ON in your settings, but doesn't that only work in HDR mode? (I think that option is not even relevant if set to SDR/2020. If so, then one can watch HDR (of course). It is then a matter of preference for these two different output options....which seems very logical. Is it easy to switch between these two settings to compare?



The conclusions seem to be that HDR implementation (even in mid-priced projectors if not high-priced) is not ready for prime time. Is this the general consensus?


Just trying to understand a simple, but apparently complex issue. Perhaps I am just a little dense.

Theater: Lyngdorf MP-50 7.3.4, Sony VW675ES, Revel Ultima Salon2/Voice2/Gem2(4)/Paradigm Be Atmos (4), Mark Levinson amps (53 L/R, 532 Center biamped, 531H side/surrounds), Atmos amp: Sherbourn, Oppo 203, Roku Ultra Premier+, DTV 4k, Velodyne 1812 Signature (LFE), Velodyne DD-15.
FR: Marantz 8802A (and/or 7703), Sony XBR 4k TV, Meridian A350 LCR onwall, Dali in-wall surrounds, Atmos Martin Logan in-ceiling, REL sub, Oppo 105 (and/or 103), DTV, AppleTV, Sony 4k Media Server.
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post #1336 of 6148 Old 09-14-2018, 02:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by normandia View Post
I do completely understand the tone mapping (after reading Kris' article) and that SDR/BT2020 is not HDR, so it makes perfect sense and thank you and others for explaining this.



My question then is that owners with HDR in projectors are NOT using that feature, so one is not watching HDR. The preference, as I understand is to just TM to SDR while keeping the expanded color space, which I also perfectly understand.



Regarding the HDR Optimizer, in SDR/2020, this would be off. Correct?



So my question is why does one need an HDR projector if this is the case?
How does one watch HDR? if ever?


My confusion is that the HDMI Optimizer is also ON in your settings, but doesn't that only work in HDR mode? (I think that option is not even relevant if set to SDR/2020. If so, then one can watch HDR (of course). It is then a matter of preference for these two different output options....which seems very logical. Is it easy to switch between these two settings to compare?



The conclusions seem to be that HDR implementation (even in mid-priced projectors if not high-priced) is not ready for prime time. Is this the general consensus?


Just trying to understand a simple, but apparently complex issue. Perhaps I am just a little dense.

Leave HDR optimizer on in SDR2020 mode so it will tone map according to what is on the disc. SDR2020 doesnt get rid of HDR, it just allows for better tone mapping of the HDR in the player instead of the projector.

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post #1337 of 6148 Old 09-14-2018, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by normandia View Post
I do completely understand the tone mapping (after reading Kris' article) and that SDR/BT2020 is not HDR, so it makes perfect sense and thank you and others for explaining this.



My question then is that owners with HDR in projectors are NOT using that feature, so one is not watching HDR. The preference, as I understand is to just TM to SDR while keeping the expanded color space, which I also perfectly understand.



Regarding the HDR Optimizer, in SDR/2020, this would be off. Correct?



So my question is why does one need an HDR projector if this is the case?
How does one watch HDR? if ever?


My confusion is that the HDMI Optimizer is also ON in your settings, but doesn't that only work in HDR mode? (I think that option is not even relevant if set to SDR/2020. If so, then one can watch HDR (of course). It is then a matter of preference for these two different output options....which seems very logical. Is it easy to switch between these two settings to compare?



The conclusions seem to be that HDR implementation (even in mid-priced projectors if not high-priced) is not ready for prime time. Is this the general consensus?


Just trying to understand a simple, but apparently complex issue. Perhaps I am just a little dense.
Gamma 2.2 in a SDR luminance space, is a reference manufactures have gotten good at delivering from the factory.

HDR gamma st2084 from manufactures has resulted in poor looking images because they have set factory st2084 without accounting for the display's peak brightness capability, which is often incapable of producing the required peak brightness. We can use the onboard st2084 tone mapping adjustments to accommodate for our display peak brightness, but how do we know how close we are to a 2.4 gamma curve? This is where curves come in. Curves are designed and measured to get as close to a good 2.4 curve, but you need calibration tools to be able to do that.

Thanks to javs, manni and others for filling the gap short of a custom curve calibration.

SDR BT2020 is wonderful solution because we can set the display gamma to 2.4, which most displays do very well from the factory, and then use the 820 luminance slider to brighten the image, without a need to readjust white and black tone levels. The luminance slider adjusts for peak brightness limitations of the display while maintaining 2.4 gamma.

Its worth noting imported curves benefit from calibrating the SDR 2.4 for accuracy. I mention this because good SDR BT2020 tone mapping will also benefit from checking the display 2.4 gamma for accuracy.

The 820 optimizer takes it to the next level because the optimizer uses the title's meta data, to adjust to peak brightness designed into the master. Optimizer ON assumes 1000 nit peak brightness mastering, and when it detects meta data higher or lower than 1000 nit, it auto adjusts to make that title as if they were mastered at 1000 nits. A few titles have bad meta data and kris has mentioned some titles, but so far they are rare.

I believe the new jvc projectors are the first to provide the type of auto tone mapping to easily compensate for the limitation of the projector's insufficient peak brightness. We don't yet know how well these tools compare to the 820, the radiance pro or alternatives. I think we are all hoping the new jvc auto tone mapping will set the standard, or at least move the ball.

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post #1338 of 6148 Old 09-14-2018, 02:51 PM
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Sorry if it's already been answered but i've read most of this thread and couldn't find the answer.

Does HDR and DV work with the LG 65E6 OLED TV? I want to order this player but want to make sure before I spend $500. If not I will go with the Sony UBPX800/LGUBK90 as it's about $200 cheaper.


TIA

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post #1339 of 6148 Old 09-14-2018, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by jbrinegar View Post
Leave HDR optimizer on in SDR2020 mode so it will tone map according to what is on the disc. SDR2020 doesnt get rid of HDR, it just allows for better tone mapping of the HDR in the player instead of the projector.

Thanks...I'm almost there...to be clear are you saying that it is the tone mapping that the player performs (of course) and that the output is HDR? or SDR/2020 that is somehow adjusted by the HDR optimizer? (If the latter, then the HDR optimizer still functions with SDR output?).


Also understand the next post that explained the 2.4 Gamma, and I get it. Unfortunately, not aware of any local calibrators (although I purchased the projector from the same place that optimized my prior projectors...they claim that everything is OK out of the box...kind of agree for SDR, but not for HDR).

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post #1340 of 6148 Old 09-14-2018, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Bytehoven View Post



I believe the new jvc projectors are the first to provide the type of auto tone mapping to easily compensate for the limitation of the projector's insufficient peak brightness. We don't yet know how well these tools compare to the 820, the radiance pro or alternatives. I think we are all hoping the new jvc auto tone mapping will set the standard, or at least move the ball.

Thanks again, and I get the Gamma 2.4 discussion.


I too agree with the new JVC...and I miss my Meridian MF-1 (JVC/DILA with Joe Kane calibration), for 1080p,,,,but I upgraded (??) to a 4k HDR Sony, so with Oppo having difficulties getting TM to function the way they want, the 820 seems the logical way to go...or might 2019 Panny models make further enhancements.

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post #1341 of 6148 Old 09-14-2018, 04:46 PM
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What does everyone have ‘SDR/HDR Conv. (Network Service)’ set to? On or off?

I’m assuming off, correct?

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post #1342 of 6148 Old 09-14-2018, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by normandia View Post
Thanks...I'm almost there...to be clear are you saying that it is the tone mapping that the player performs (of course) and that the output is HDR? or SDR/2020 that is somehow adjusted by the HDR optimizer? (If the latter, then the HDR optimizer still functions with SDR output?).
I think what's tripping you up, as it did me, and many others, is almost a matter of semantics.

HDR encompasses a much wider range from dark to bright than SDR, which is much narrower, all by definition. TV's can and have been manufactured to be capable of much brighter display than previous generations, and are better prepared to 'accommodate' the incoming HDR signal. Unless it's capable of the full range HDR can contain (and none of them currently can), then it has to 'squeeze' that wide range into whatever range it is able to display. That is what tone-mapping does.

Projectors are much less capable of getting anywhere near the full HDR range, so more 'compromise' is inevitable. But the same concept applies: the wider HDR signal has to be tone-mapped into whatever range the projector is capable of. It's almost useful to think of this as 'HDR-lite.' It's not full HDR, not quite as wide a range as a good HDR TV, but it's also wider than SDR.

The tone-mapping can take place in the Projector, if it is fed the original HDR signal from the player. Or it can take place in the Player, in which case the Projector 'treats' it as SDR in terms of the gamma that it uses. If it was treated as HDR, then you would have tone-mapping in *both* player and projector, and this is not going to work.

So in this sense, the 'SDR-2020' that the player transmits can be thought of as 'HDR-lite-2020' in that it maps the original HDR signal to the actual capabilities of the Projector.

Hopefully this helps provide a little perspective.

And to the experts here, if I've misconstrued anything, please step in and correct my post!

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post #1343 of 6148 Old 09-14-2018, 11:18 PM
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I wish the UB820 would transcode between Dolby Vision and HDR10+.
i.e. Take a Dolby Vision disc and output an HDR10+ signal to my Samsung display which does not have Dolby Vision.
It seems theoretically straightforward considering that both standards are trying to represent basically the same thing.
Buy I'm sure I'm not the first to have thought about this... what stands in the way?
My uneducated guesses:
- DV has some DRM that handshakes with the display to verify it is certified for DV
- DV has licensing agreements that prevent licensees from doing this conversion
- There is some compression on one end or the other which is computationally expensive to encode


On another topic, while I'm throwing out technical curiosities, I don't understand why the tone remapping that the UB820 does is considered so difficult. I can see how figuring out what curve works best has required lots of testing and R&D, but actually implementing the remapping seems like it is just a matter of accessing a lookup table representing the curve, for each pixel. Sounds much less computationally intensive than say decompressing the data from the disc. I suppose the real question is whether Panasonic has enough intellectual property on this process, or whether other players will adopt this approach since it's basically trivial processing.


Okay, another curiosity before going to bed: Given that the only difference I can see between the UB820 and UB420 is the analog outputs, why aren't they selling the UB420 here in the USA? Now that everyone has HDMI receivers or sound bars, I can't imagine more than a slim fraction of users needing those 7.1 analog outputs. The cynical voice inside me says that they know that people like me will pay $100 more to get the first good player with HDR10+, and even though they probably only get $10 or less in extra profit on the $100 analog audio it makes business sense for them to take advantage of this market inefficiency.
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post #1344 of 6148 Old 09-15-2018, 01:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Morrow View Post

....On another topic, while I'm throwing out technical curiosities, I don't understand why the tone remapping that the UB820 does is considered so difficult. I can see how figuring out what curve works best has required lots of testing and R&D, but actually implementing the remapping seems like it is just a matter of accessing a lookup table representing the curve, for each pixel. Sounds much less computationally intensive than say decompressing the data from the disc. I suppose the real question is whether Panasonic has enough intellectual property on this process, or whether other players will adopt this approach since it's basically trivial processing.....
There is the issue of how many nits the content is mastered at and how many nits the tv or projector can display and the dynamic range or contrast that the tv / projector can display and.......probably a few more things that my poor, old, tired brain can't remember but......you get the idea.
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Edit2: And if you are a "black levels" freak/person and/or a shadow details freak or like a punchy, vivid picture and don't mind some blown out highlights and clipping etc. You know, just the normal stuff most here obsess over, this is AVS after all!

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post #1345 of 6148 Old 09-15-2018, 02:20 AM
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There is the issue of how many nits the content is mastered at and how many nits the tv or projector can display and the dynamic range or contrast that the tv / projector can display and.......
Right lots of factors that go into creating a lookup table/curve, but once that curve is created it stays constant through at least a scene so it doesn't have to be recomputed often.
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post #1346 of 6148 Old 09-15-2018, 02:33 AM
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Right lots of factors that go into creating a lookup table/curve, but once that curve is created it stays constant through at least a scene so it doesn't have to be recomputed often.
With HDR10 it stays constant thruout the movie, iirc, which is an issue and why we have Dolby Vision and now HDR10+ which are meant to change scene by scene or something similar which is a great improvement.
However it still leaves many of the aforementioned issues un-resolved so we have things like dynamic irises or more FALD zones but then there is the issue of how fast the iris can adjust and does it create "pumping" or other artifacts so.....
What it means is that HDR is a complex beast that will take many years for everyone to make the best use of.
But I think it is great and most everyone here can see the potential.
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post #1347 of 6148 Old 09-15-2018, 05:33 AM
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Great question! I would love if it does all its tone mapping wizardry with netflix and vudu!

With the new ATV now out doing HDR/Atmos, that might replace a lot of my hard disc watching, as it was nearly impossible to rent UHD/Atmos titles. VUDU should up, but even they were pretty limited. Looks like Apple will release every new atmos/uhd title available. VUDU only had agreements with a few production companies.

I'll still buy some hard discs, but will be doing more streaming.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rwings01 View Post
Sorry if it's already been answered but i've read most of this thread and couldn't find the answer.

Does HDR and DV work with the LG 65E6 OLED TV? I want to order this player but want to make sure before I spend $500. If not I will go with the Sony UBPX800/LGUBK90 as it's about $200 cheaper.


TIA
Yes. I have HDR10 working great with UHD discs and the Netflix and Amazon apps. I have DV shut off because it can't be calibrated on the 2016 OLEDs and my otherwise Chad B calibrated 55C6 has a green push in DV mode that can't be tuned out.

The 820 replaced a Sony X800 for me (kept it for SACD and DVD Audio only).

A lot of this thread has concentrated on projectors but the big thing about the 820 for our 2016 OLED's is the HDR Optimizer (running in full HDR mode). It fixes the poor tone-mapping on HDR material mastered above 1000 nits.

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post #1348 of 6148 Old 09-15-2018, 07:36 AM
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I was hoping to sell the wife on a tv upgrade and did a science project. We have a 63” Samsung plasma wall mounted in the family room that we like but has very poor blacks. Bought a new Sony 55” 900e a few months ago for our living room that is 4K capable. Yesterday I set up my older Panasonic BD55 player along with my new UB820 as one controller operates both at the same time connected to the Sony. Used new certified 18gbs hdmi cables and connected to the high speed ports on the tv. Used a couple 4K movies that had the HD discs as well so I could play both formats at same time. Using the chapter advance button I was able to get near identical frames displayed on both inputs at same time.

I really really thought I would be impressed and sell my wife on a new 4K tv for the family room but was very surprised that we weren’t wowed by the 4K picture. Wife was not impressed at all. There was a minor improvement in detail only noticeable by switching between inputs. The colors were better with more shadow detail on the 4K input but not dramatic. Don’t know if the tv did a great job upscaling the standard blu ray discs or if there just isn’t a major advantage to 4K. Probably not great movies to use but all I had - various Marvel movies - new Thor, Guardians 2, Infinity war. The tv did display that it was receiving the HDR 4K signal when I switched to that input every time.

Am I doing something wrong? Quite sure I have the 820 configured properly. Using the LCD medium brightness setting. Tried viewing at various distances but no noticeable change. The 4K demo at BestBuy was impressive but far less so at home. Has me doubting the benefit of purchasing 4K discs and sure can’t upsell my wife!!!! Wish I could set up both TVs next to each other as that would surely be a better comparison. Was hoping to justify a new 75” 900F.
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post #1349 of 6148 Old 09-15-2018, 07:43 AM
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I am now getting Amazon HDR as well. I’m not sure what I did but it is working now.
Can you share your UB820 settings? I'm not getting HDR via Prime.

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post #1350 of 6148 Old 09-15-2018, 02:48 PM
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Has anyone else had trouble connecting to a network share with the UB820? I just picked mine up and am unable to connect to my Synology NAS. Using the same share and account I want using on my Oppo, but just keep getting a generic 'cannot connect'.

The logs on my NAS show a successful connection, so the issue is on the UB820.

EDIT:

I'm starting to get extremely frustrated with the network drive support on this player. I can't get it to work at all.

When connecting to shares on my Synology NAS, I just get 'Cannot connect'. If I connect to shares I set up on other computers, it will connect, but not show any of the contents of the share.

I know 100% that permissions are fine. Other devices, including my previous Oppo player, can connect to the shares without any issue.

Last edited by goldenegg; 09-15-2018 at 08:27 PM.
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