Official Panasonic DP-UB820/824 Owner's Thread (No Price Talk) - Page 90 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2671 of 5996 Old 01-02-2019, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Gardo View Post
So far I haven't had to power cycle the player in this way. I would like to be able to use the apps on the player, to take advantage of its superb video quality and of course the HDR Optimizer. Both Netflix and Amazon Prime look better on the 820 than they do on the apps native to the LG OLED 65C8 I have. I agree that the forced Dolby Vision on the 820's Netflix app is a pain and should be fixed, but I'd even be willing to switch that manually if the sync problem, which seems to have been introduced with the latest firmware release, got fixed.

I haven't seen a Firestick 4K in action. How does its video performance compare to the 820's? (I'm assuming it doesn't stutter and that the a/v sync is fine.)
Turning off DV in the settings menu is, currently, the only way to get Netflix off the DV default. Just not worth the effort. The FireTV Stick's video quality on Prime and Netflix is, by and large, excellent. It handles HDR and DV very well and can output Atmos audio. There are, however, problems with audio dropouts with lots of posts/complaints out there. Some users have said that after they changed the audio output default to Stereo, the dropouts stopped but that's hardly a solution since DD+ and Atmos are major selling points for the device. Others have exchanged their Stick for another one which has no problems. The Amazon tech folks are aware of this and can make some suggestions that may or may not work at this point.They either need to push a firmware fix or redesign the Stick's hardware and let current Stick owners exchange theirs. As far as I know, the audio issue only occurs on the 4K Stick.
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post #2672 of 5996 Old 01-02-2019, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by ColoFatherof3 View Post
Problems with older DVDs:

I'm using a new JVC X790 projector with my new 820. 4k and blue rays work great. Some DVDs work great also. However, I'm having trouble with at least one older set of DVDs. When I try any disc from my "Die Hard' trilogy, the display does not fill the screen properly. It stays true the the correct aspect ratio, but it is "shrunk down" such that I have black bars at the top and bottom.

I played these same DVDs on an older DVD player with this projector with NO ISSUE.

Is there some 820 setting I need to adjust?

thanks for any help on this.
Is this the older non-anamorphic set of DVD's?

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post #2673 of 5996 Old 01-02-2019, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by StevenC56 View Post
820's main menu

Setup (far right box)

Player settings (top choice)

HDMI settings (top choice)

Advanced settings (bottom choice)

HDR Color Gamut Output

SDR/BT.2020 (Auto)

Thanks! That's a big help!

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post #2674 of 5996 Old 01-02-2019, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr.G View Post
Is this the older non-anamorphic set of DVD's?

That would be most likely. They will display with bars on all four sides unless you have an old 4:3 TV. Too bad the UB820 does not have a zoom function like the Oppo does. Maybe the posters TV has zoom capabilities. But then again, zooming a DVD is not going to look good.

Older players usually had a TV aspect ratio setting. So if you configured as 16:9, it might automatically zoom these non-anamorphic letterboxed made for 4:3 TV DVDs.

Some of these DVDs had both a letterbox non-anamorphic version and a widescreen anamorphic version on the same disc that you could choose in the menu.

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post #2675 of 5996 Old 01-02-2019, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Cal1981 View Post
Turning off DV in the settings menu is, currently, the only way to get Netflix off the DV default. Just not worth the effort. The FireTV Stick's video quality on Prime and Netflix is, by and large, excellent. It handles HDR and DV very well and can output Atmos audio. There are, however, problems with audio dropouts with lots of posts/complaints out there. Some users have said that after they changed the audio output default to Stereo, the dropouts stopped but that's hardly a solution since DD+ and Atmos are major selling points for the device. Others have exchanged their Stick for another one which has no problems. The Amazon tech folks are aware of this and can make some suggestions that may or may not work at this point.They either need to push a firmware fix or redesign the Stick's hardware and let current Stick owners exchange theirs. As far as I know, the audio issue only occurs on the 4K Stick.
Thanks--this is very helpful information. I understand you may not be able to answer my next question, but just in case: do you think the FireTV Stick 4K is likely to offer better video than the app that comes with the LG OLED C8? Alternatively, how does the video compare to the 820's? Thanks.
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post #2676 of 5996 Old 01-02-2019, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by aili View Post
That is a bummer... why didn't they include at least one hdmi in...
Or at least they could've let people install kodi or plex.
I don't believe that including a HDMI input on a Blu-ray player is common so it's no surprise that the 820 doesn't include one. In fact, the only ones I have heard of that do include an HDMI input is the Oppo line and they are no longer selling Blu-ray players.

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post #2677 of 5996 Old 01-02-2019, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by aili View Post
why didn't they include at least one hdmi in...
Or at least they could've let people install kodi or plex.
The industry doesn't want to encourage file playback from players that aren't compliant and DRM locked as it believes all such files are infringing copyright.
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post #2678 of 5996 Old 01-02-2019, 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by StevenC56 View Post
Mine from BB was factory sealed with clear tape. If it was sealed with BB tape, then they opened it for some reason, or it was a return. I'd make them give you an open box price adjustment, or exchange it for a factory sealed unit.

My local Best Buy had some stock shown on the website, so I took mine back in and they exchanged it without an issue (I had bought it online). I actually had some freezing going on with mine (five second freezes that would correct itself; not disc related based on troubleshooting), so I figured best to give it a go.


The Manager said the deal with the branded tape is that if the product tape is open or split for any reason, such as too much weight on top of it during shipping, they open and inspect the product and then reseal. Their tape also says "inspected", as well as showing their logo.


I'm pleased to have a factory sealed unit, though it'll be tomorrow at least before I install it and check for issues. Setup will be much easier this go around, both from experience and because I took pictures of my first player menu screens.

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post #2679 of 5996 Old 01-02-2019, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Gardo View Post
Thanks--this is very helpful information. I understand you may not be able to answer my next question, but just in case: do you think the FireTV Stick 4K is likely to offer better video than the app that comes with the LG OLED C8? Alternatively, how does the video compare to the 820's? Thanks.
Watched a bit of Transformers The Last Knight on Prime. It's a 1080P up-scaled to 4K. The FireTV stick and Panny 820 are pretty much even in PQ with my LG C7's app slightly behind. Your LG C8 with the newer processor may up-scale a tad better than my C7 however. Jack Ryan in Dolby Vision looks good on all three devices although the C7's image has a bit less color saturation and looks slightly "flat" compared to the Stick and the 820. On Netflix Guardians 2 in 1080P looks OK on the C7 and Stick. On the 820, output in Dolby Vision, the image is brighter and has more depth but looks slightly more "video" looking with smoother edges. It's actually looks pretty good. Black Panther is about the same but NBC's The Good Place looks great output in DV. It will come down to your own preferences and the actual source content. Hope this helps.
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post #2680 of 5996 Old 01-02-2019, 10:00 PM
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I'm deciding between the 820 and 9000. Can't decided if the 9000 is worth twice the price. If I am playing CDs over HDMI do you think I'll notice a difference between the two players? I won't be using any of the analog outs, only the HDMI audio out.

What do you guys think? Will the 9000 have better sound quality if I am using the HDMI out on the player?

Thanks!

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post #2681 of 5996 Old 01-02-2019, 10:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Bghead8che View Post
I'm deciding between the 820 and 9000. Can't decided if the 9000 is worth twice the price. If I am playing CDs over HDMI do you think I'll notice a difference between the two players? I won't be using any of the analog outs, only the HDMI audio out.

What do you guys think? Will the 9000 have better sound quality if I am using the HDMI out on the player?

Thanks!
I was trying to convince myself the 9000 would be worth waiting for, but at twice the cost I finally decided just a more robust build was just not a good spent of money. The 820 is just not a "Statement Look" unit, and I had to get past that as it works great. It's going to end up behind a door low in my cabinet anyway. (that way I can change discs without retracting my screen)
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post #2682 of 5996 Old 01-03-2019, 06:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Cal1981 View Post
Watched a bit of Transformers The Last Knight on Prime. It's a 1080P up-scaled to 4K. The FireTV stick and Panny 820 are pretty much even in PQ with my LG C7's app slightly behind. Your LG C8 with the newer processor may up-scale a tad better than my C7 however. Jack Ryan in Dolby Vision looks good on all three devices although the C7's image has a bit less color saturation and looks slightly "flat" compared to the Stick and the 820. On Netflix Guardians 2 in 1080P looks OK on the C7 and Stick. On the 820, output in Dolby Vision, the image is brighter and has more depth but looks slightly more "video" looking with smoother edges. It's actually looks pretty good. Black Panther is about the same but NBC's The Good Place looks great output in DV. It will come down to your own preferences and the actual source content. Hope this helps.
It helps a lot, so thanks very much for taking the time to compare!

I'm hopeful that Panasonic will soon have new firmware for the 820 to address the evident problems with the Netflix and Prime Video apps. The 820 seems to be available again from Best Buy, and soon from other sources as well. As the installed base increases, I'm hoping Panasonic will want to keep the momentum going and the customers satisfied. That said, it's hard to figure out their marketing strategy for the 820, given that it was out of stock everywhere at the very peak of the holiday buying season, and is still available only at a few retailers. And that's not even considering the lack of detailed documentation on the many video settings (e.g., "retro cinema"?).

Still and all, a fabulous player, very far ahead of the Sony X700 I started with and returned.
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post #2683 of 5996 Old 01-03-2019, 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by StevenC56 View Post
I was trying to convince myself the 9000 would be worth waiting for, but at twice the cost I finally decided just a more robust build was just not a good spent of money. The 820 is just not a "Statement Look" unit, and I had to get past that as it works great. It's going to end up behind a door low in my cabinet anyway. (that way I can change discs without retracting my screen)
In the same boat. Just have no way of knowing if build quality is worth twice the price. Especially since I won't use the onboard DACs or analog outs for audio.

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post #2684 of 5996 Old 01-03-2019, 07:54 AM
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In the end I care about PQ. So everyone has said PQ is identical from the 420 all the way up! Maybe down the rd if the 9000 went down in price I would pick it up so I’ve convinced myself on getting the 820.
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post #2685 of 5996 Old 01-03-2019, 08:17 AM
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Hi all!!! I just got my Panny 820 in yesterday and got it all setup. I'm curious about the HDR optimizer - is the player only doing tone mapping when this is on, or is also at work when off?

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post #2686 of 5996 Old 01-03-2019, 08:34 AM
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New to this player. I was watching a 4K disc on my 1080p projector when approx 30 minutes into the movie I lost audio and had massive artifacting. Any thoughts?

Sorry can't figure out how to attach a pic.
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post #2687 of 5996 Old 01-03-2019, 09:46 AM
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Hi all!!! I just got my Panny 820 in yesterday and got it all setup. I'm curious about the HDR optimizer - is the player only doing tone mapping when this is on, or is also at work when off?
The optimizer is the 1st stage which looks the title meta data and adjusts the title too a 1000 nits mastering spec. If you pull up the info window on the projector, turning the optimizer on and off, you can see how the values change. So a 4000 nits title, will have preprocessing added to make it consistent with a 1000 nits mastering spec.

In theory, the optimizer allows however you set up the other adjustments, they will work on any title, as long as the meta data is correct. I have found only a couple of movies which required tweaking. Solo and the last jedi are the two that come to mind. They both presented as too dark and required turning the optimizer off and pushing the dynamic slider to restore adequate peak brightness.

So while there are titles which have poor meta data which inhibits the optimizer from working properly, those i mentioned have been the only movies in my HDR collection that require any tweaks from my standard sdr2020 settings.
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post #2688 of 5996 Old 01-03-2019, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Gardo View Post
It helps a lot, so thanks very much for taking the time to compare!

I'm hopeful that Panasonic will soon have new firmware for the 820 to address the evident problems with the Netflix and Prime Video apps. The 820 seems to be available again from Best Buy, and soon from other sources as well. As the installed base increases, I'm hoping Panasonic will want to keep the momentum going and the customers satisfied. That said, it's hard to figure out their marketing strategy for the 820, given that it was out of stock everywhere at the very peak of the holiday buying season, and is still available only at a few retailers. And that's not even considering the lack of detailed documentation on the many video settings (e.g., "retro cinema"?).

Still and all, a fabulous player, very far ahead of the Sony X700 I started with and returned.
Happy to help. One of the hallmarks of AVS is member's willingness to lend a hand to fellow members.


I suspect that the relatively hefty price tag of the 820 had an impact on Panasonic's decision to limit its distribution. Let's face it. The vast majority of home video equipment buyers don't look at comprehensive reviews or are regulars on AVS or other higher level AV web sites. I'll bet that the Sony X700 and some of the Samsung UHD players (yeech!) are the top sellers, especially when they are on sale. The combination of cost and, in the Sony's case, very good video performance make them easy to sell. Look at how many Samsung LED TVs sell compared to LG or Sony OLEDs.
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post #2689 of 5996 Old 01-03-2019, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by kevyh View Post
New to this player. I was watching a 4K disc on my 1080p projector when approx 30 minutes into the movie I lost audio and had massive artifacting. Any thoughts?

Sorry can't figure out how to attach a pic.
I haven't had that specifically happen but I have, once in a while, lost audio when the 820 has been paused for a while. Powering the player off and on resolves it but it's annoying when it occurs. The 820 is a great disc spinner but it is not problem free.
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post #2690 of 5996 Old 01-03-2019, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Bytehoven View Post
The optimizer is the 1st stage which looks the title meta data and adjusts the title too a 1000 nits mastering spec. If you pull up the info window on the projector, turning the optimizer on and off, you can see how the values change. So a 4000 nits title, will have preprocessing added to make it consistent with a 1000 nits mastering spec.

In theory, the optimizer allows however you set up the other adjustments, they will work on any title, as long as the meta data is correct. I have found only a couple of movies which required tweaking. Solo and the last jedi are the two that come to mind. They both presented as too dark and required turning the optimizer off and pushing the dynamic slider to restore adequate peak brightness.

So while there are titles which have poor meta data which inhibits the optimizer from working properly, those i mentioned have been the only movies in my HDR collection that require any tweaks from my standard sdr2020 settings.
Just so I understand, the player is providing tone mapping with it on and off, just on, it changes the nits to 1000, as opposed to the 4000 from the disc?

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post #2691 of 5996 Old 01-03-2019, 12:12 PM
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Just so I understand, the player is providing tone mapping with it on and off, just on, it changes the nits to 1000, as opposed to the 4000 from the disc?
That is my understanding, and the method for being a set and forget it player.

I welcome being corrected as my comments over simplify the process.
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post #2692 of 5996 Old 01-03-2019, 12:18 PM
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Still and all, a fabulous player, very far ahead of the Sony X700 I started with and returned.
Would you care to elaborate on this point please? I have a X700 hooked up to my E7 and am trying to determine if the upgrade to the UB820 is worth it for a 2017 OLED. Since you've owned both, what specifically shines on the Panny over the Sony? Does it upscale better? Optimizer help in a noticeable way?

This thread has been primarily dominated by the projector crowd and for good reason for them, but I'm not finding nearly was much detailed Intel from the OLED crowd on the benefits of the Panny over the Sony.
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post #2693 of 5996 Old 01-03-2019, 02:13 PM
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Thanks, @Bytehoven for all the help here and over in the JVC thread.

One last thing, do you have 4k60p output set to 4:4:4?

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post #2694 of 5996 Old 01-03-2019, 02:37 PM
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I have a SONY 385ES projector and a 92" screen with 0.9 gain. Because of the smaller screen, most HDR looks fine with my 385 in low lamp mode. Some HDR did seem a bit dark with this scheme, so I had Film 2 setup with high lamp mode for material that required a bit more brightness. For obvious reasons I would like to avoid the use of the high lamp mode, so a bit of Tone Mapping seems to be in order.

I have been using an OPPO 203 and hoping they would get TM right but a few days ago, I got an 820, and yes it will replace my OPPO 203. I was glad to see that you can use the HDR optimizer in the HDR/BT2020 mode rather than requiring it to switch to SDR/BT2020 or the so-called JVC mode. I tried the SDR/BT2020 mode first but thought I might be missing something. I assume that the SDR mode drops the bit depth to 8 bits, which can't be a good thing, but that tone mapping/HDR optimization in the HDR mode will keep the output at 10 bits (or more). Is this true? My related question is what are the advantages of the SDR/BT2020 mode over the HDR/BT2020 mode, unless you have a JVC and want to keep the dynamic iris working? Yes, you can change the gamma value 2.2 vs 2.4, but the HDR TM also seems to have ways to shape the gamma with the sliders and it looks fine with the defaults.

The only downside I have seen so far is that the USB stick with all my downloaded Atmos demo videos, either as mkv or mp4, either don’t play at all or video only. Hard to demonstrate Atmos without sound! My ripped CDs in FLAC however, seem to play fine. Now if the 820 had an HDMI in and I could use it for tone mapping with my AppleTV 4k! That would be a real bonus.
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post #2695 of 5996 Old 01-03-2019, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by shs1234 View Post
I have a SONY 385ES projector and a 92" screen with 0.9 gain. Because of the smaller screen, most HDR looks fine with my 385 in low lamp mode. Some HDR did seem a bit dark with this scheme, so I had Film 2 setup with high lamp mode for material that required a bit more brightness. For obvious reasons I would like to avoid the use of the high lamp mode, so a bit of Tone Mapping seems to be in order.

I have been using an OPPO 203 and hoping they would get TM right but a few days ago, I got an 820, and yes it will replace my OPPO 203. I was glad to see that you can use the HDR optimizer in the HDR/BT2020 mode rather than requiring it to switch to SDR/BT2020 or the so-called JVC mode. I tried the SDR/BT2020 mode first but thought I might be missing something. I assume that the SDR mode drops the bit depth to 8 bits, which can't be a good thing, but that tone mapping/HDR optimization in the HDR mode will keep the output at 10 bits (or more). Is this true? My related question is what are the advantages of the SDR/BT2020 mode over the HDR/BT2020 mode, unless you have a JVC and want to keep the dynamic iris working? Yes, you can change the gamma value 2.2 vs 2.4, but the HDR TM also seems to have ways to shape the gamma with the sliders and it looks fine with the defaults.

The only downside I have seen so far is that the USB stick with all my downloaded Atmos demo videos, either as mkv or mp4, either don’t play at all or video only. Hard to demonstrate Atmos without sound! My ripped CDs in FLAC however, seem to play fine. Now if the 820 had an HDMI in and I could use it for tone mapping with my AppleTV 4k! That would be a real bonus.
I have same projector and the 820. I don't see a lot of difference in the image between HDR/BT2020 with optimizer on and SDR/BT2020 with optimizer on, but there is some. For example, in Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire, there is a scene early in the film where the minister of magic gives the opening speech at the Quidditch world cup. With no optimizer, I can't make out any detail on his face at all. It's just a white blob. In HDR mode, I can make out some detail. In SDR2020 mode, I can make out more. Both modes send 10 bit output. For some reason that I can't identify, 12 bit color at 4:4:4 causes occasional video drops in my system. Setting the Panasonic to 10 bit output eliminates those.
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post #2696 of 5996 Old 01-03-2019, 03:04 PM
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Funnily enough, I was watching the same film last night on my Sony 885/760, and definitely SDR2020 mode works better on that film, and generally I've found across dark films. It definitely seems to be the way to go with Sony projectors.

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post #2697 of 5996 Old 01-03-2019, 03:07 PM
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Hi all!!! I just got my Panny 820 in yesterday and got it all setup. I'm curious about the HDR optimizer - is the player only doing tone mapping when this is on, or is also at work when off?
When the UB820 is in SDR/BT2020 output mode, it always performs tone mapping of HDR content.

- With the Optimizer turned on, it tone maps using the HDR metadata.
- With the Optimizer turned off, it tone maps using a default 1000 nit map.


When the UB820 is in HDR output mode, it only performs tone mapping when the Optimizer is turned on. It uses the HDR metadata and the configured HDR TV type to do tone mapping of the bright highlights that exceed the nit level assigned to the HDR TV type. If HDR TV Type is set to OLED, it will tone map to 1000 nits. Etc. The UB820 still outputs HDR in this case but the TV has less tone mapping to do because the content does not contain highlights that exceed its capabilities. The expectation is that the UB820 HDR Optimizer does a better job of tone mapping highlights than most TV can do.

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post #2698 of 5996 Old 01-03-2019, 03:17 PM
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Would you care to elaborate on this point please? I have a X700 hooked up to my E7 and am trying to determine if the upgrade to the UB820 is worth it for a 2017 OLED. Since you've owned both, what specifically shines on the Panny over the Sony? Does it upscale better? Optimizer help in a noticeable way?

This thread has been primarily dominated by the projector crowd and for good reason for them, but I'm not finding nearly was much detailed Intel from the OLED crowd on the benefits of the Panny over the Sony.
Sure thing. Before I returned the X700 I did some A/B comparisons with Blu-ray, UHD HDR10, and UHD Dolby Vision content. For BD, the Panasonic upscaled better than the X700 by a small but significant (to me) margin. For UHD HDR10 content, the dynamic range was handled better, with less black crush. For Dolby Vision, the same was true, and the image also looked more even from bright to dark--the X700 Dolby Vision looked a little garish by comparison, with the bright end less controlled and more of a "wash of brightness" effect. (These are not technical descriptions, I realize.) These impressions are all with the display type set to OLED and the HDR Optimizer to ON with the Standard setting (the latter does not add any changes to the dynamic range). The HDR Optimizer only affects HDR10 material, of course. I did try turning on the LG's Dynamic Tone Mapping for HDR10, as some said it was complementary to the HDR Optimizer, but the results didn't look as good to me (blown out highlights in some cases), so I turned the LG's Dynamic Tone Mapping back off.

I do think the display setting for OLED (within the main setup menu) makes a difference for everything, though with the skimpy Panasonic documentation I couldn't tell you what, exactly, is happening beyond setting the player's output for a maximum 1000 nits with some kind of extra help for the WRGB pixel structure of the OLED panel. I speak under correction here! (Edit: @claw 's post above has a more succinct and accurate description than mine: looks like the TV Type setting imposes a maximum output level, while the HDR Optimizer uses that maximum level as the top level against which it does tone mapping. I hope I have that right! I still see some effect with the TV Type set to OLED and the HDR Optimizer off, but I'm guessing the highlights are just getting clipped.)

For color, the Panasonic was also a clear winner, with smoother gradations and richer textures.

It's also nice that the Panasonic auto-detects Dolby Vision discs, while the X700 would not--I had to turn DV off for HDR10 and SDR content, then on for DV content, assuming I spotted the DV mention in the fine print on the back of the UHD disc jacket. So the Panasonic's auto-detection was a big draw for me initially. The superior video quality was more surprising. All in all, the improvements added substantially to the immersiveness of the experience.

Disc handling is speedier, there's a small but occasionally helpful display on the machine itself, and while I don't use the multichannel analog output (I route audio via ARC back to my Oppo 105D), I'm glad it's there. Build quality is also appreciably more robust, though still quite plastic-y.

The big downsides are a) the remote, which is annoyingly tiny with buttons it's easy to miss (aside from the large Netflix button, which it's easy to hit by mistake); and b) the streaming apps, which are buggy so far. (Netflix has an a/v sync issue, and Amazon stutters on UHD content--though both look better than the built-in LG apps, presumably because of the video processing.)

Put all that together, and that's why I say "far ahead."

For more on the technical reasons for the better video on the Panasonic. Vincent Teoh's review of the upcoming flagship 9000 model has some interesting details:
. I wish Panasonic's documentation were more detailed. Isn't there a geek's guide, an engineering white paper, or something?
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I have a SONY 385ES projector and a 92" screen with 0.9 gain. Because of the smaller screen, most HDR looks fine with my 385 in low lamp mode. Some HDR did seem a bit dark with this scheme, so I had Film 2 setup with high lamp mode for material that required a bit more brightness. For obvious reasons I would like to avoid the use of the high lamp mode, so a bit of Tone Mapping seems to be in order.

I have been using an OPPO 203 and hoping they would get TM right but a few days ago, I got an 820, and yes it will replace my OPPO 203. I was glad to see that you can use the HDR optimizer in the HDR/BT2020 mode rather than requiring it to switch to SDR/BT2020 or the so-called JVC mode. I tried the SDR/BT2020 mode first but thought I might be missing something. I assume that the SDR mode drops the bit depth to 8 bits, which can't be a good thing, but that tone mapping/HDR optimization in the HDR mode will keep the output at 10 bits (or more). Is this true? My related question is what are the advantages of the SDR/BT2020 mode over the HDR/BT2020 mode, unless you have a JVC and want to keep the dynamic iris working? Yes, you can change the gamma value 2.2 vs 2.4, but the HDR TM also seems to have ways to shape the gamma with the sliders and it looks fine with the defaults.

The only downside I have seen so far is that the USB stick with all my downloaded Atmos demo videos, either as mkv or mp4, either don’t play at all or video only. Hard to demonstrate Atmos without sound! My ripped CDs in FLAC however, seem to play fine. Now if the 820 had an HDMI in and I could use it for tone mapping with my AppleTV 4k! That would be a real bonus.
- If you read this thread from the beginning you would know that the UB820 does not support any HD audio when playing video media from USB or disk storage.

- SDR/BT2020 mode does not drop bit depth to 8-bit. It retains the BT.2020 wide color gamut that is contained in the original content and will output either 10-bit or 12-bit. SDR/REC709 mode may output 8-bit. You may still get REC709 if your projector does not support BT.2020 and you select SDR/BT2020 output mode.

- SDR/BT2020 mode is recommended for projectors. Because of their limited brightness capabilities they use very aggressive tone mapping to map the bright highlights that exceed the projector capabilities to display. In UB820 HDR output mode, the HDR Optimizer performs aggressive tone mapping to map the bright highlights above 500 nits (HDR TV Type Projector). Chris Deering posted that applying two aggressive tone maps; HDR Optimizer tone mapping plus Projector tone mapping is not good practice. He recommends SDR/BT2020 mode for all projectors, not just JVC, letting the HDR Optimizer perform all of the tone mapping.

CJ
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post #2700 of 5996 Old 01-03-2019, 03:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trptguy View Post
Would you care to elaborate on this point please? I have a X700 hooked up to my E7 and am trying to determine if the upgrade to the UB820 is worth it for a 2017 OLED. Since you've owned both, what specifically shines on the Panny over the Sony? Does it upscale better? Optimizer help in a noticeable way?

This thread has been primarily dominated by the projector crowd and for good reason for them, but I'm not finding nearly was much detailed Intel from the OLED crowd on the benefits of the Panny over the Sony.
Sure thing. Before I returned the X700 I did some A/B comparisons with Blu-ray, UHD HDR10, and UHD Dolby Vision content. For BD, the Panasonic upscaled better than the X700 by a small but significant (to me) margin. For UHD HDR10 content, the dynamic range was handled better, with less black crush. For Dolby Vision, the same was true, and the image also looked more even from bright to dark--the X700 Dolby Vision looked a little garish by comparison, with the bright end less controlled and more of a "wash of brightness" effect. (These are not technical descriptions, I realize.) These impressions are all with the display type set to OLED and the HDR Optimizer to ON with the Standard setting (the latter does not add any changes to the dynamic range). The HDR Optimizer only affects HDR10 material, of course. I did try turning on the LG's Dynamic Tone Mapping for HDR10, as some said it was complementary to the HDR Optimizer, but the results didn't look as good to me (blown out highlights in some cases), so I turned the LG's Dynamic Tone Mapping back off.

I do think the display setting for OLED (within the main setup menu) makes a difference for everything, though with the skimpy Panasonic documentation I couldn't tell you what, exactly, is happening beyond setting the player's output for a maximum 1000 nits with some kind of extra help for the WRGB pixel structure of the OLED panel. I speak under correction here! (Edit: CLAW's post above has a more succinct and accurate description than mine: looks like the TV Type setting imposes a maximum output level, while the HDR Optimizer uses that maximum level as the top level against which it does tone mapping. I hope I have that right! I still see some effect with the TV Type set to OLED and the HDR Optimizer off, but I'm guessing the highlights are just getting clipped.)

For color, the Panasonic was also a clear winner, with smoother gradations and richer textures.

It's also nice that the Panasonic auto-detects Dolby Vision discs, while the X700 would not--I had to turn DV off for HDR10 and SDR content, then on for DV content, assuming I spotted the DV mention in the fine print on the back of the UHD disc jacket. [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG] So the Panasonic's auto-detection was a big draw for me initially. The superior video quality was more surprising. All in all, the improvements added substantially to the immersiveness of the experience.

Disc handling is speedier, there's a small but occasionally helpful display on the machine itself, and while I don't use the multichannel analog output (I route audio via ARC back to my Oppo 105D), I'm glad it's there. Build quality is also appreciably more robust, though still quite plastic-y.

The big downsides are a) the remote, which is annoyingly tiny with buttons it's easy to miss (aside from the large Netflix button, which it's easy to hit by mistake); and b) the streaming apps, which are buggy so far. (Netflix has an a/v sync issue, and Amazon stutters on UHD content--though both look better than the built-in LG apps, presumably because of the video processing.)

Put all that together, and that's why I say "far ahead."

For more on the technical reasons for the better video on the Panasonic. Vincent Teoh's review of the upcoming flagship 9000 model has some interesting details:
. I wish Panasonic's documentation were more detailed. Isn't there a geek's guide, an engineering white paper, or something? [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]

That's awesome, best summary of benefits I've seen thusfar. Thank you for your time and experiences.
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