Pioneer UDP-LX 500 / 800 Owners Thread (No Price Talk) - Page 18 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #511 of 621 Old 05-14-2019, 07:14 PM
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Originally Posted by KramerTC View Post
I think you want to know if the subtitles can be shifted up or down, right? For a front projector setup with a cinemascope screen where sometimes the subtitles are coded in the letterboxed area of the image. I'd be curious too. I don't see a mention of this in the manual. The new sony X800M2 (nowhere in the same league as this but worth noting) has this functionality.
Yes exactly, that is one fantastic feature the Panasonics (many models) and Oppos have. The Panasonics also have a fantastic option to drop subtitle luminance, which for 100% white 4000 nit subtitles, is a brilliant feature. I was wondering what features, if any, the pioneer had to put it in that class of needed HT use. I can't believe there are no owners who can answer it. I guess none have scope setups, and care about it.
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post #512 of 621 Old 05-19-2019, 02:03 PM
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X800 vs LX500 for Multi-channel SACD

I'm currently using a Sony UBP-X800 for multi-channel SACD. Would there be any listening advantage with a UPD-LX500? I believe both have to use HDMI because of multi-channel? So this means the internal DAC's are not being used?? Looking for SACD listening reasons to upgrade.
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post #513 of 621 Old 05-19-2019, 07:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom899 View Post
I'm currently using a Sony UBP-X800 for multi-channel SACD. Would there be any listening advantage with a UPD-LX500? I believe both have to use HDMI because of multi-channel? So this means the internal DAC's are not being used?? Looking for SACD listening reasons to upgrade.
The 500 has a two channel analog you can hook up to take advantage of the DAC. Like the Oppo 203, it only has unbalanced connections.

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post #514 of 621 Old 05-19-2019, 10:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Geoff4RFC View Post
The 500 has a two channel analog you can hook up to take advantage of the DAC. Like the Oppo 203, it only has unbalanced connections.
Thanks, yes I understand the two channel advantage, I’m more wondering about SACD multi-channel. I’ll probably end up ordering one, it seems like a very nice universal player.
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post #515 of 621 Old 05-19-2019, 11:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom899 View Post
Thanks, yes I understand the two channel advantage, I’m more wondering about SACD multi-channel. I’ll probably end up ordering one, it seems like a very nice universal player.
Oh, sorry, I understand your question better now. Yeah, I've had mine for about a week now. Great video, of course my display is a QLED and not a used with a P.J.

I haven't taken advantage of the 2ch DAC yet however the HDMI connected player does pretty great with CD's.

I would have preferred a balanced connection, but for the price point of LX800, the Panny 9000 and the Oppo 205, this was the lesser of four evils.
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post #516 of 621 Old 05-20-2019, 02:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom899 View Post
Thanks, yes I understand the two channel advantage, I’m more wondering about SACD multi-channel. I’ll probably end up ordering one, it seems like a very nice universal player.
With HDMI you are not getting any real advantage with the pioneer. Everything is decoded in your AVR. Maybe the Pioneer has better error correction on reading discs? Who knows. If there is an advantage, it would be there.
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post #517 of 621 Old 05-20-2019, 03:20 AM
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Originally Posted by glangford View Post
With HDMI you are not getting any real advantage with the pioneer. Everything is decoded in your AVR. Maybe the Pioneer has better error correction on reading discs? Who knows. If there is an advantage, it would be there.
I got both players... using HDMI there is no real advantage using the PIO (Excluding a version of Tone Mapping based on display type that is not so advanced as the the Panasonic one)... even the Mediatek platform inside the two players is very similar...

What you got with the PIO is building quality and premium feel...

The real question is how worth "Premium" is for you... for me is really important... but for you?
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post #518 of 621 Old 05-20-2019, 03:40 AM
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Yes, I guess its coming down to build quality, feel, looks and convenience. I use a projector in my home theater, but not 4K, (maybe next year) (everything else is 4k ready). I use the x800 for SACD, and UB900 for movies. The 500 could replace both of them in my rack. I would re-purpose the x800 and UB900 to two other systems in my home.
Thanks for everyone's comments. I kind of figured what all of you confirmed, but wanted to be sure.
I know this sounds stupid, my x800 and UB900 work really well, but the looks! they both look like "nothing burgers". The LX500 looks awesome! I know looks aren't everything, but I enjoy looks, and it's mostly for me.
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post #519 of 621 Old 05-20-2019, 05:05 AM
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^^^^^^^^
Tom899, I am like you, and I-SIBI in that the superior build quality and "premium" make of the PIO is worth it to me, and I "believe" I can hear the difference in the music over my old OPPO 95 playing SACDs over the HDMI. Of course it is newer, better built, and works flawlessly, and quiet as can be.
Yes, I know the audio outs would be better if they were balanced, but honestly, although the player sounds great playing through its own DAC and through the analog outs, multi-channel is where it's at. For that I am using my DAC in my Emo XMC-1 and the sound is amazing.
As it is in movies.
I think you will REALLY like and enjoy the PIO if that is the way you go. Several of us here are enjoying music through it.
Happy listening, watching, God Bless,
Wayne
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post #520 of 621 Old 05-20-2019, 05:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Tex_Thai View Post
^^^^^^^^
Tom899, I am like you, and I-SIBI in that the superior build quality and "premium" make of the PIO is worth it to me, and I "believe" I can hear the difference in the music over my old OPPO 95 playing SACDs over the HDMI. Of course it is newer, better built, and works flawlessly, and quiet as can be.
Yes, I know the audio outs would be better if they were balanced, but honestly, although the player sounds great playing through its own DAC and through the analog outs, multi-channel is where it's at. For that I am using my DAC in my Emo XMC-1 and the sound is amazing.
As it is in movies.
I think you will REALLY like and enjoy the PIO if that is the way you go. Several of us here are enjoying music through it.
Happy listening, watching, God Bless,
Wayne
Thanks Wayne, all of you convinced me to order one! Time to remove the x800 and 900 from my rack.
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post #521 of 621 Old 05-20-2019, 06:07 AM
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Talking SACD via LX-500

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom899 View Post
I'm currently using a Sony UBP-X800 for multi-channel SACD. Would there be any listening advantage with a UPD-LX500? I believe both have to use HDMI because of multi-channel? So this means the internal DAC's are not being used?? Looking for SACD listening reasons to upgrade.

I have the LX-500. I also have an Oppo BDP-93 which I still love as it plays burned SACD as well as movies without issue unlike the LX-500. I have been able to get it to play MKV files so that's good. Having said that the LX-500 for me was worth every penny! Playing multichannel SACD's has been a revelation for my system compared to the Oppo. I'm running Def Tech Mythos speakers all the way around and above with Atmos ceiling speakers. I am in awe at how much more detail, depth and overall musicality it is extracting for even regular CD's. I would say I was hearing 2D previously and now I am hearing 3D. Midrange and vocals are just stunning. I have an SC-99 receiver so for the first time I am experiencing the PQLS feature. I would describe it as taking you one more step deeper into the recording and adding that sense of a LIVE performance. I found myself tapping my foot as I was listening to music. For me that is the ultimate test of a system. When you can get lost in the music and quit analyzing everything you are hearing you have achieved what I think most of us are craving from a system. Also when you play Hi-Res files via the front USB input I am happy to report that it also engages PQLS so digital files also have this audible upgrade. I have a new 77" OLED being delivered today. I have not even gotten to experience the picture and sound for movies yet. I am excited and extremely happy with my purchase. She's built like a tank and looks gorgeous next to my SC-99. Now if Pioneer would fix the iControl app to work with the newest version of Android all will be perfect in my Pioneer universe.

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post #522 of 621 Old 05-20-2019, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Tom899 View Post
Thanks Wayne, all of you convinced me to order one! Time to remove the x800 and 900 from my rack.
You'll dig it for sure. It's in a huge (for a BRP) box, and super heavy! It's a beast of a player, and all of my explanation will not do it, you'll see what I mean when you lift it into your home and unbox it
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post #523 of 621 Old 05-20-2019, 10:07 AM
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You'll dig it for sure. It's in a huge (for a BRP) box, and super heavy! It's a beast of a player, and all of my explanation will not do it, you'll see what I mean when you lift it into your home and unbox it
Sounds good, looking forward to it! Shipping weight is 31 lbs!
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post #524 of 621 Old 05-20-2019, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by jcavila View Post
I have the LX-500. I also have an Oppo BDP-93 which I still love as it plays burned SACD as well as movies without issue unlike the LX-500. I have been able to get it to play MKV files so that's good. Having said that the LX-500 for me was worth every penny! Playing multichannel SACD's has been a revelation for my system compared to the Oppo. I'm running Def Tech Mythos speakers all the way around and above with Atmos ceiling speakers. I am in awe at how much more detail, depth and overall musicality it is extracting for even regular CD's. I would say I was hearing 2D previously and now I am hearing 3D. Midrange and vocals are just stunning. I have an SC-99 receiver so for the first time I am experiencing the PQLS feature. I would describe it as taking you one more step deeper into the recording and adding that sense of a LIVE performance. I found myself tapping my foot as I was listening to music. For me that is the ultimate test of a system. When you can get lost in the music and quit analyzing everything you are hearing you have achieved what I think most of us are craving from a system. Also when you play Hi-Res files via the front USB input I am happy to report that it also engages PQLS so digital files also have this audible upgrade. I have a new 77" OLED being delivered today. I have not even gotten to experience the picture and sound for movies yet. I am excited and extremely happy with my purchase. She's built like a tank and looks gorgeous next to my SC-99. Now if Pioneer would fix the iControl app to work with the newest version of Android all will be perfect in my Pioneer universe.
Nice post, thanks.



I’d be interested if anyone who has the LX-500 and an OPPO 105 or 205 to do an analog output comparison. Analog is the meat and bones of what these machines have been designed for.
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post #525 of 621 Old 05-22-2019, 09:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom899 View Post
Thanks, yes I understand the two channel advantage, I’m more wondering about SACD multi-channel. I’ll probably end up ordering one, it seems like a very nice universal player.
Hi,
The best option is to listen SACD via analogue multichannel outcome. However, it is not possible with Pioneer LX 500/800.
If I have a line preamp with this feature I will search for a player with multichannel analogue out. Night & day better compared to HDMI. IMHO of course.

Quality of DACs of line preamp will influence the sound - HDMI out. I do not entry into HDMI cable quality debate. Separate topic.
Thanks.
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post #526 of 621 Old 05-23-2019, 12:12 AM
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^^^^^^^^^
Hi MikeRO, I cannot disagree more with your statement. I do VERY much agree with listening to SACDs with multi-channel out. But NOT that analog is better. Depends on the DAC in your player. My admittedly OLD OPPO 95 was class in its day, but the analog outs from it are definitely inferior to the DACs I can use by HDMI in my Emotiva XMC-1. IMHO.
AND the XMC-1 gives me DIRAC room correction too.
I am one who loves my multi-channel listening by way of the HDMI, no complaints here at all.
YMMV.
You can just ignore my assessment and say I am deaf. My wife sometimes says that, so who knows, maybe it is true?
God Bless,
Wayne
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post #527 of 621 Old 05-23-2019, 12:31 AM
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You can just ignore my assessment and say I am deaf. My wife sometimes says that, so who knows, maybe it is true?
God Bless,
Wayne
Hey Tex, I'm talking to you man...…...what, are you deaf?????

In other news......after a week of play, I've boxed up my LX500 and returned it and reinstalled my BDP 103. I only have two 4K movies and my 103 upscales everything as close to 4K as possible to my display.

My short assessment of the 500 is nothing short of 1st class! Most impressive was the build quality. Super quiet, just as fast at loading as my 103. The load tray is especially impressive, but then again that lends itself to build quality.

Only been out of my rack for a day but I miss it already however something tells me to wait. As with most things in this hobby, many compromises are made from time to time, and my purchase of the 500 was one of those times since I really wanted the Oppo UDP-205. Had the 500 had balanced connections like the unobtainable LX 800, I most likely would have kept it.

So for now, I'll wait to see what else comes down the pike.

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post #528 of 621 Old 05-23-2019, 05:01 AM
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Got it! The LX500 that is

I unpacked it last night, Yes, a beast! It felt good to purchase something that just looks and feels like quality. I've had three Oppo's and this seems to be in the same league.

I hooked up the analog outs and played a couple two channel SACD's, they sound great! I tried a 4K movie on my 1080p projector and it did very well. I compared it with the BD version and could not see a difference, it's doing a very good job of converting to 1080p. So far I like it!

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Just got my LX500 today from B&H Photo and stuck it in my HT rack. Half the size (and 10 lbs lighter) than my 09FD next to it, but they just don't build 'em like that anymore....it was $2,200 ten years ago.

The 09 has an amazing analog section (see photos): "8 Wolfson Audio DACS running in Dual mode providing superior signal-to noise ratio (120db)."

I just quickly looked at a few scenes on a couple Blu-rays and a 4K disk with the LX500, and the PQ looks amazing. I'm still on a 1080 PJ (Sharp XV-Z20000, which has a superb picture); planning on upgrading to a BenQ HT9060 in the near future. Haven't listened to audio yet; I'll be running HDMI into my Krell 707 pre-pro, so i'm expecting great things....

Thanks to everyone on this thread for your reviews and info on the LX500: even though I've been sold on Pioneer since I got the 09FD ten years ago, this thread was a big help in deciding to get this next one.
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^
I too just picked up an LX500 but haven't even plugged it in yet. Will do some critical listening/watching this weekend. It's the same size as my Marantz UD5007 but significantly heavier... just hope it works as flawlessly. And I sure hope that blue power button light can be dimmed.

The dealer I purchased from said that Pioneer is finally ramping up shipments to the US and there should be more available soon. He had just received his first shipment and that was only 3 units.
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post #531 of 621 Old 05-29-2019, 08:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MOberhardt View Post
Can anyone with the unit comment on the subtitle options? The Panasonic has luminance and position options, that aren't in the manual, so was wondering what the Pioneer might be able to do.
Manual, p.30:

The position of the subtitles displayed while playing BD-ROMs or DVDs can be moved.

1 Play the BD-ROM or DVD video and display the subtitles on the TV screen.
2 Press and hold the SUBTITLE button for at least 2 seconds.
• The Subtitle shift mode is set.
• [Subtitle shift mode] is displayed on the TV screen.
3 Use the up/down buttons to move the position of the subtitles.
• Once the setting is complete, press ENTER.

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Last edited by rider; 05-29-2019 at 09:24 PM.
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post #532 of 621 Old 05-29-2019, 09:52 PM
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^
And I sure hope that blue power button light can be dimmed.
It doesn't look like it can be dimmed, and it's fairly bright if you have a completely light-controlled room.

I had a big brightness problem with my Krell 707 pre/pro: every time I would adjust the volume or do anything, the blue display would come on and light up the room like a searchlight. Easy solution: I bought red mylar color filter sheets (www.amazon.com/gp/product/B073XJMS39 ) and cut a rectangle (2 layers) to fit inside the display window (photo). The sheets are primary red so they almost completely block out the blue light background but let the white letters come thru. Unless you directly look at the display when it comes on you don't notice it even if the room is completely dark.

For the LX500 I cut a 16mm circle of the red mylar, put a dab of paper cement on it and stuck it on the power button. It cuts the brightness down to about 25% - works great. At 16mm the circle doesn't interfere with pressing the power button.


Note on that mylar: the sheets have a clear peel-off protective layer on both sides – hard to see and I didn't realize it at first.
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post #533 of 621 Old 05-30-2019, 02:43 AM
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^^^^^^^^^
YES, that stupid undimmable power light is the worst thing I have found about the LX500.
Was wondering what I am gonna tape over it, the brightest part is at the top, I figure to cover that and leave the remaining blue circle, will match with most everything else in my system, as long as it is dim, not shining bright in my DARK home theater.
Don't want something that will look like crap, so have not done it yet.
Any other ideas out there?
God Bless,
Wayne

Well a little piece of black electrical tape did the job. Not a nice job, but it works. I cannot really see the circle of light as I had planned, but just a little bit of blue at the bottom comes through, a smidge. That is all I need along with the dimmed display to tell me we are up and running.
NOW I love this player!!!!!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rider View Post
It doesn't look like it can be dimmed, and it's fairly bright if you have a completely light-controlled room.

I had a big brightness problem with my Krell 707 pre/pro: every time I would adjust the volume or do anything, the blue display would come on and light up the room like a searchlight. Easy solution: I bought red mylar color filter sheets (www.amazon.com/gp/product/B073XJMS39 ) and cut a rectangle (2 layers) to fit inside the display window (photo). The sheets are primary red so they almost completely block out the blue light background but let the white letters come thru. Unless you directly look at the display when it comes on you don't notice it even if the room is completely dark.

For the LX500 I cut a 16mm circle of the red mylar, put a dab of paper cement on it and stuck it on the power button. It cuts the brightness down to about 25% - works great. At 16mm the circle doesn't interfere with pressing the power button.


Note on that mylar: the sheets have a clear peel-off protective layer on both sides – hard to see and I didn't realize it at first.
I do have some smoke-colored mylar I have used in the past to "dim" displays, but my other solution is some sticky back matte black vinyl material. I will cut off a small piece and create a flap over the power button.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tex_Thai View Post

Well a little piece of black electrical tape did the job.
Absolutely!! I've been using this trick for years. With three Emotiva amps, and the rest of my gear, the blue lights make my stand look like an alien ship in the dark
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Yes exactly, that is one fantastic feature the Panasonics (many models) and Oppos have. The Panasonics also have a fantastic option to drop subtitle luminance, which for 100% white 4000 nit subtitles, is a brilliant feature. I was wondering what features, if any, the pioneer had to put it in that class of needed HT use. I can't believe there are no owners who can answer it. I guess none have scope setups, and care about it.
I have bought the LX800 and I can tell you it has the same subtitle shift function as Oppo.
Hold down subtitle on the remote for a couple of seconds and you’ll be able to move it. The press OK when done.
It even says this clearly in the manual.

No luminance control though.. One can hope for a future firmware. Should come in the Function menu then..

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Has anyone done any A/B comparisons between blu-ray and 4K disks of the same movie?

I tried it with Aquaman, and there was a distinct difference between the two. I thought maybe it was just a difference in the transfers, so I tried it with Alien Covenant but the results were the same. I bought both titles as 4K/blu-ray combo packages, so the two versions are not from different release dates.

I'm running the LX500 into a 1080 projector, Sharp XV-Z20000.

The 4Ks had slightly sharper detail and deeper color saturation in medium to bright scenes, but in darker scenes the 4Ks had black crush, a noticeable loss of shadow detail, and just an overall 'haze' to the picture.

I have the LX500 output set at 4:4:4, which the PJ is correctly identifying. I turned off HDR and Dolby Vision, just to be sure that wasn't causing a problem. I tried some brightness/contrast/gamma adjustments on both the LX500 and the PJ, but I couldn't get the missing shadow detail or reduce the black crush on the 4K disks.

Any answers/ideas on this?

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^
I know with my Vizio P65-F1 TV, 4:4:4 would limit the TV to 8-bit which I believe means no deep color. The LX500 needs to be set to 4:2:0 to get 10-bit color on the Vizio. I wish the LX500 had an auto option for "color space" as I will need to switch to 4:4:4 for regular bluray (8-bit).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stash64 View Post
^
I know with my Vizio P65-F1 TV, 4:4:4 would limit the TV to 8-bit which I believe means no deep color. The LX500 needs to be set to 4:2:0 to get 10-bit color on the Vizio.
I think my Sharp PJ only has 8-bit color depth, not sure, but it only accepts 4:4:4 and 4:2:2.
Playing the blu-rays with the same settings on the LX500 still look great, though – there seems to be something different with the 4Ks, but no idea what or where....

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^
Well, I just watched my first 4k disc (Ex Machina) and everything looked very good on the Vizio with good black detail and no noticeable crush. It was an HDR10 disc and only a minor improvement over the standard bluray disc probably because it was a rather dark film overall. I think someone else with a projector will have to step in to help. I can understand that bright highlights might not be as distinct on a projector but I don't see why HDR would result in black crush.

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