Pioneer UDP-LX 500 / 800 Owners Thread (No Price Talk) - Page 19 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #541 of 624 Old 06-02-2019, 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by stash64 View Post
I can understand that bright highlights might not be as distinct on a projector but I don't see why HDR would result in black crush.
Your Vizio is 4K, so the LX500 is not downscaling the 4K disk for your display; my PJ is 2K. I have no problem with black crush or loss of shadow detail from the LX500 with blu-rays, only 4K disks.

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post #542 of 624 Old 06-02-2019, 10:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rider View Post
Your Vizio is 4K, so the LX500 is not downscaling the 4K disk for your display; my PJ is 2K. I have no problem with black crush or loss of shadow detail from the LX500 with blu-rays, only 4K disks.

Try to force the LX500 to BT2020/SDR mode. It should resolve your problem.


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post #543 of 624 Old 06-03-2019, 01:01 AM
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Originally Posted by desray2k View Post
Try to force the LX500 to BT2020/SDR mode. It should resolve your problem.
There's no Rec output setting on the LX500. The 4K disks are encoded 2020, but the LX500 outputs them in 709 (SDR) to the PJ – possibly because with the HDMI handshake it sees the PJ doesn't accept 2020?

The blu-ray disks are encoded 709, so there's no transcoding for the output; maybe the 2020 —> 709 transcoding for the 4K disks isn't done too well by the LX500 and that's the issue?

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post #544 of 624 Old 06-03-2019, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by rider View Post
Has anyone done any A/B comparisons between blu-ray and 4K disks of the same movie?

I tried it with Aquaman, and there was a distinct difference between the two. I thought maybe it was just a difference in the transfers, so I tried it with Alien Covenant but the results were the same. I bought both titles as 4K/blu-ray combo packages, so the two versions are not from different release dates.

I'm running the LX500 into a 1080 projector, Sharp XV-Z20000.

The 4Ks had slightly sharper detail and deeper color saturation in medium to bright scenes, but in darker scenes the 4Ks had black crush, a noticeable loss of shadow detail, and just an overall 'haze' to the picture.

I have the LX500 output set at 4:4:4, which the PJ is correctly identifying. I turned off HDR and Dolby Vision, just to be sure that wasn't causing a problem. I tried some brightness/contrast/gamma adjustments on both the LX500 and the PJ, but I couldn't get the missing shadow detail or reduce the black crush on the 4K disks.

Any answers/ideas on this?
Have you tried Video Parameters?

In there you can set picture settings, output device type and color tone when doing HDR to SDR conversion.

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post #545 of 624 Old 06-03-2019, 08:43 AM
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^^^^^^^^^
Please HSamwel, where does one find "Video Parameters"??????
No where to be found by me on the LX500.
Would love to be able to find it, pls tell me how to access it????
Thanks and God Bless,
Wayne
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post #546 of 624 Old 06-03-2019, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Tex_Thai View Post
^^^^^^^^^
Please HSamwel, where does one find "Video Parameters"??????
No where to be found by me on the LX500.
Would love to be able to find it, pls tell me how to access it????
Thanks and God Bless,
Wayne
This feature must be on the LX500 aswell I would think. Both players have the same digital section.

On the LX800 remote it is directly under ”0”, says ”Video P.” On the remote.

Edit: Access it when playing a video disc. You can save up to 3 different settings.
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post #547 of 624 Old 06-03-2019, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HSamwel View Post
Have you tried Video Parameters?

In there you can set picture settings, output device type and color tone when doing HDR to SDR conversion.
Video Parameters has "HDR-SDR Adj." which the manual says "adjusts the connected video device to the maximum brightness value." (p.39) — I tried the full adjustment range from 0-700, but the change was so slight it was barely even noticeable.
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post #548 of 624 Old 06-03-2019, 12:22 PM
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^^^^^^^^^^
Thank you so very much HSamwel, found it and am checking it out now. Thanks for adding the key, which is the reason I never found it, looks like a disc has to be playing. At least it is working for me now.
And yes, rider, some adjustments look to be subtle, but perhaps that is all I need, the picture was already quite good before.
Appreciate the help here!!!!!
Thanks a LOT,
God Bless,
Wayne
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post #549 of 624 Old 06-03-2019, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by rider View Post
Manual, p.30:

The position of the subtitles displayed while playing BD-ROMs or DVDs can be moved.

1 Play the BD-ROM or DVD video and display the subtitles on the TV screen.
2 Press and hold the SUBTITLE button for at least 2 seconds.
• The Subtitle shift mode is set.
• [Subtitle shift mode] is displayed on the TV screen.
3 Use the up/down buttons to move the position of the subtitles.
• Once the setting is complete, press ENTER.
Numerous posts by a member asking questions about subtitle location and there it is right in the LX-500 manual on page 29. It amazes me that people can take the time to post online asking questions but don't take the time to read their manuals . I assumed the member in question looked at the manual. Wow!

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post #550 of 624 Old 06-03-2019, 02:34 PM
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Re: A/B comparisons between blu-ray and 4K discs of the same movie – the 4Ks had black crush, a noticeable loss of shadow detail, and just an overall 'haze' to the picture on my 1080 PJ.

After an extended call with Pioneer tech support, they said they will escalate to a sr. tech and get back to me...

Anyone else done any A/B comparisons on a 1080 display? I'd like to know if it's something in the way the LX500 is transcoding the 4K discs, or if it's just specific to my PJ.

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post #551 of 624 Old 06-04-2019, 07:22 AM
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Originally Posted by rider View Post
Video Parameters has "HDR-SDR Adj." which the manual says "adjusts the connected video device to the maximum brightness value." (p.39) — I tried the full adjustment range from 0-700, but the change was so slight it was barely even noticeable.
The change is actually dependant to the actual nits level of the HDR mastering.
Many movies are not mastered above 1000 nits. These often show very little change.
The higher the mastered range this should show a more noticable change.

It’s too bad this is a feature only for HDR10. Dolby Vision and HDR10+ is not supported and I’ll guess
they never will be down convertable to SDR.
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post #552 of 624 Old 06-04-2019, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by HSamwel View Post
The change is actually dependant to the actual nits level of the HDR mastering.
Many movies are not mastered above 1000 nits. These often show very little change.
The higher the mastered range this should show a more noticable change.

It’s too bad this is a feature only for HDR10. Dolby Vision and HDR10+ is not supported and I’ll guess
they never will be down convertable to SDR.
So do you think it's a deficiency in the HDR-to-SDR conversion protocol that doesn't result in the proper luminance? Is there an industry standard for conversion, or does each manufacturer design its own implementation?

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post #553 of 624 Old 06-04-2019, 12:29 PM
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So do you think it's a deficiency in the HDR-to-SDR conversion protocol that doesn't result in the proper luminance? Is there an industry standard for conversion, or does each manufacturer design its own implementation?
I would think scaling from BT2020 to REC709 is a standard that everyone can follow.
But tone mapping each manufacturer tries to do it’s best to convert.
The problem is that not every display device has the same specs. They actually all have different specs.
From 100-2200nits depending on device. Also 8bit and 10bit panels, different color handling and so on..
Tone mapping must be damn hard to get perfect for everyone.

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post #554 of 624 Old 06-04-2019, 04:02 PM
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Just got my LX500 today from B&H Photo and stuck it in my HT rack. Half the size (and 10 lbs lighter) than my 09FD next to it, but they just don't build 'em like that anymore....it was $2,200 ten years ago.

The 09 has an amazing analog section (see photos): "8 Wolfson Audio DACS running in Dual mode providing superior signal-to noise ratio (120db)."

I just quickly looked at a few scenes on a couple Blu-rays and a 4K disk with the LX500, and the PQ looks amazing. I'm still on a 1080 PJ (Sharp XV-Z20000, which has a superb picture); planning on upgrading to a BenQ HT9060 in the near future. Haven't listened to audio yet; I'll be running HDMI into my Krell 707 pre-pro, so i'm expecting great things....

Thanks to everyone on this thread for your reviews and info on the LX500: even though I've been sold on Pioneer since I got the 09FD ten years ago, this thread was a big help in deciding to get this next one.
Yes, the 09 is indeed a beast. I'm using mine while my 88FD is being repaired. Thing is, the 88 may not make it back into the system. I forgot how rich and powerful the 09's sound is. I may just fix the 88, sell it and get a LX-500, even though I don't have a 4K TV. The 500's DAC should be a bit richer than the ESS Sabres in the 88.
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post #555 of 624 Old 06-05-2019, 02:32 AM
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Originally Posted by HSamwel View Post
I would think scaling from BT2020 to REC709 is a standard that everyone can follow.
But tone mapping each manufacturer tries to do it’s best to convert.
The problem is that not every display device has the same specs. They actually all have different specs.
From 100-2200nits depending on device. Also 8bit and 10bit panels, different color handling and so on..
Sooo..... if anyone can do a blu-ray/4k comparison with the same movie on a 1080 display, that might help to determine if it's specific to my PJ or a wider problem with the LX500's conversion.

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post #556 of 624 Old 06-05-2019, 02:41 PM
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I haven't found this answered here and for the life of me I can't find anything online or in the manual for the LX500. I just got mine earlier today and I can't figure out how to switch to the 2-channel program on a multichannel SACD. I did try hitting the CD/SACD button, but that didn't seem to work. Am I missing something?


Other than this, this player is fantastic so far. Got a region-modded one and I'm using it to replace my region-modded Oppo 105D and a 203. It sounds excellent, looks excellent, and is built like a tank.
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post #557 of 624 Old 06-05-2019, 04:30 PM
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I haven't found this answered here and for the life of me I can't find anything online or in the manual for the LX500. I just got mine earlier today and I can't figure out how to switch to the 2-channel program on a multichannel SACD. I did try hitting the CD/SACD button, but that didn't seem to work. Am I missing something?


Other than this, this player is fantastic so far. Got a region-modded one and I'm using it to replace my region-modded Oppo 105D and a 203. It sounds excellent, looks excellent, and is built like a tank.


That same button is used to toggle between SACD layers. It’s only shown in the player front display. You won’t see the changes in your TV screen messages.


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post #558 of 624 Old 06-05-2019, 07:07 PM
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Originally Posted by HiRes_PR View Post
That same button is used to toggle between SACD layers. It’s only shown in the player front display. You won’t see the changes in your TV screen messages.


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Thanks. I'll try it again and see what happens.
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post #559 of 624 Old 06-07-2019, 08:19 AM
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What about that FW upgrade?????? Weren't we supposed to have it by now?
Anybody hear anything?
My LX500 is not connected to the net, so I would not know if there were FW updates unless someone told me.
Just checking.
Also, a quick comment, native 4K movies, and especially those with Dolby Vision are da bomb!!!!!!!!!
But even the latest concert blu ray I just rec'd blows me away with how wonderful the picture quality is. FINALLY, with the LX500 and my new LG OLED C8 combo, my PQ is just now up to speed with my sound quality in my home theater. Man, this is the way I was always meant to watch movies!!!!!!
Loving it,
God Bless,
Wayne
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Last edited by Tex_Thai; 06-07-2019 at 08:21 AM. Reason: correction
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post #560 of 624 Old 06-07-2019, 01:43 PM
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What about that FW upgrade?????? Weren't we supposed to have it by now?
Anybody hear anything?
My LX500 is not connected to the net, so I would not know if there were FW updates unless someone told me.
You can always check on the Pioneer web site (at least on their US web site):
clicking on the DOWNLOADS button on the product page takes you to the update download, version history, etc.
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post #561 of 624 Old 06-08-2019, 03:49 AM
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^^^^^^
Thanks rider, but see post #145 . I am on the latest FW but looking for the promised upgrade.
God Bless,
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tex_Thai View Post
^^^^^^

Thanks rider, but see post #145 . I am on the latest FW but looking for the promised upgrade.

God Bless,

Wayne


Are there even any physical content (4K disc) that is authored in HDR 10+ at the moment to take advantage of this new dynamic-based metadata?


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post #563 of 624 Old 06-09-2019, 02:25 AM
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Are there even any physical content (4K disc) that is authored in HDR 10+ at the moment to take advantage of this new dynamic-based metadata?
This thread has found over a dozen as of 6/1:

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=300877

This makes me wonder if expanding my currently small 4K library might be premature, if they'll soon be re-releasing those HDR10 titles in HDR10+...?
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post #564 of 624 Old 06-09-2019, 02:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rider View Post
This thread has found over a dozen as of 6/1:



https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=300877



This makes me wonder if expanding my currently small 4K library might be premature, if they'll soon be re-releasing those HDR10 titles in HDR10+...?


Let’s not forget the display itself must be able to support. HDR 10+ and DV are very much alike since both are dynamic metadata. Unless you are using Samsung TV which doesn’t have DV.


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Well, FWIW, I hope Dolby Vision wins over and HDR 10+ goes away. DV is GREAT IMHO.
BUT the upgrade to the FW on our LX500 was promised and was part of the reason I bought one, and has not come yet. So I am looking for it.
Thanks,
God Bless,
Wayne
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post #566 of 624 Old 06-09-2019, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tex_Thai View Post
Well, FWIW, I hope Dolby Vision wins over and HDR 10+ goes away. DV is GREAT IMHO.

BUT the upgrade to the FW on our LX500 was promised and was part of the reason I bought one, and has not come yet. So I am looking for it.

Thanks,

God Bless,

Wayne


And you know what’s the irony of it? Samsung being the creator and advocate of HDR 10+ decide to exit from the Blu-ray player market and yet they wanted to push for the HDR 10+. Later I found out that HDR 10+ display tech was used in their Galaxy S10 phones. I wonder what is Samsung intention of rolling out HDR 10+


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post #567 of 624 Old 06-14-2019, 01:33 AM
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Having had enough of the LG UP970, due to it being (sometimes unbearable) noisy and having problems with the layer 2/3 changes, I checked out all the other available players.

Reading through the forums the Pioneer seemed to be the most quite player, and the layer changes have no or little impact. On top of that it can add an audio delay (ever since the LG supported Dolby Vision, the video of Dolby Vision movies was visibly behind the audio).



And I'm happy to report that it is virtually silent and flawlessly plays disc with a third layer.

One oddity is that because I had to select 'Separate' to get audio to my old AVR-3808, the receiver was not picking up the audio only signal automatically. Luckily the Denon allows to assign a specific input to a channel, which solved the problem. However, the Denon is now unable to automatically add an audio delay, so I have to do this by hand on the player. I suppose this will be fixed when I buy a new receiver somewhere in the future and run everything through a single HDMI cable.

I also found out that JVB Digital (also selling in the US) provides a Region Free kit for the player. I may opt for that to replace my aging Panasonic DMP-BD50, which has been my Region Free player for the past 11 years.
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LG 55C6, Denon AVR-3808A, NAD C272, Panasonic DMP-BD50 (Regio Vrij), Pioneer UDP-LX500, B&W 604S2 (2x), B&W 602S3 (2x) en B&W LCR600S3.

Last edited by teachsac; 06-14-2019 at 04:34 AM. Reason: Deal's talk removed
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post #568 of 624 Old 06-17-2019, 07:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Boushh View Post
[FONT=&quot]I also found out that JVB Digital (also selling in the US) provides a Region Free kit for the player. I may opt for that to replace my aging Panasonic DMP-BD50, which has been my Region Free player for the past 11 years.
I see the UDP-LX500 being sold as a region free unit but I don't see a region free kit for it.
Maybe I'm missing it?
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post #569 of 624 Old 06-17-2019, 07:50 AM
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I see the UDP-LX500 being sold as a region free unit but I don't see a region free kit for it.
Maybe I'm missing it?
http://www.jvbdigital.nl/jvb.asp?lev...tle=1324&cur=2
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DVD's: 373, BluRay's: 1142, UHD BR's: 153, VHS: 11
LG 55C6, Denon AVR-3808A, NAD C272, Panasonic DMP-BD50 (Regio Vrij), Pioneer UDP-LX500, B&W 604S2 (2x), B&W 602S3 (2x) en B&W LCR600S3.
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post #570 of 624 Old 06-17-2019, 12:30 PM
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Automatic BR zone switch: No
BR zone manually switchable: Yes

How do you manually switch zones with this mod installed? It says the zone switch is automatic for DVDs.

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