Pioneer UDP-LX 500 / 800 Owners Thread (No Price Talk) - Page 35 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1021 of 1042 Old 01-04-2020, 05:41 AM
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Originally Posted by scanido View Post
Does anyone know what optimal setting is for HDMI Color Space?

LX500 defaults to ycbcr4:4:4 however the blacks seem a bit washed out. Tried the FULL RGB which seems a bit better but blacks seem crushed. Projector connected is a non-HDR Sony VPL-VW500es that has the HDMI dynamic range input set to FULL.
Ycbcr Is the correct setting for movie playback.
Chroma upsampling is done either in LX500 or by the projector.
If you have passive hdmi cables well above 5 meters (16 feet) it would be better
to limit the amount of data transfered. Setting it to 4:2:2 probably is better in
this case, and letting the projector do the final upsampling.
Everything on disc is stored in 4:2:0. You could even send it with this setting
but hdmi does not allow sending 4:2:0 with certain video formats.
If you have short cables you usually choose the device that does the upsampling
best. For example Panasonic is especially good at this. Although Pioneer and
Sony both do a good job with upsampling.

Dynamic range on the projector should be set to limited, however strange
this may sound. Otherwise you will crush blacks and whites or get washed out
colors depending on settings.
For computer playback it is correct to set it to full.
Because of this it is mostly a good idea to have the display unit on auto
if you have several different types of sources.

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post #1022 of 1042 Old 01-04-2020, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by AnotherDude View Post
Who with a full-blown HT system uses factory provided remotes nowadays? I program my MX-990 remote to do everything I need very handily. I even have a macro that shows me the time remaining for the LX500 for two seconds . I always say avoid the middleman, video straight to the TV and audio straight to the preamp/receiver.

But as always, YMMV ...
This is what I have always done, though having a traditional stereo setup it is easy. I'm contemplating the LX500, and would continue the practice with it, as I have with the 09FD and the 88FD.

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post #1023 of 1042 Old 01-04-2020, 09:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HSamwel View Post
Ycbcr Is the correct setting for movie playback.
Chroma upsampling is done either in LX500 or by the projector.
If you have passive hdmi cables well above 5 meters (16 feet) it would be better
to limit the amount of data transfered. Setting it to 4:2:2 probably is better in
this case, and letting the projector do the final upsampling.
Everything on disc is stored in 4:2:0. You could even send it with this setting
but hdmi does not allow sending 4:2:0 with certain video formats.
If you have short cables you usually choose the device that does the upsampling
best. For example Panasonic is especially good at this. Although Pioneer and
Sony both do a good job with upsampling.

Dynamic range on the projector should be set to limited, however strange
this may sound. Otherwise you will crush blacks and whites or get washed out
colors depending on settings.
For computer playback it is correct to set it to full.
Because of this it is mostly a good idea to have the display unit on auto
if you have several different types of sources.
I am bordering about 5m HDMI cable run and tried setting the LX500 color space to Ycbcr 4:4:4 and projector dynamic range back to AUTO. Re-calibrated custom picture presets and it appears that looks better. Thanks for that informative response.

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post #1024 of 1042 Old 01-06-2020, 05:03 PM
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On the Pioneer web site the LX500 is now showing a $999 List Price
Sorry if this has been posted earlier

Thanks
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post #1025 of 1042 Old 01-06-2020, 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Lee23 Roy View Post
On the Pioneer web site the LX500 is now showing a $999 List Price
Sorry if this has been posted earlier

Thanks


And it says Out of Stock.


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post #1026 of 1042 Old 01-07-2020, 03:30 AM
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Originally Posted by HiRes_PR View Post
And it says Out of Stock.


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We know its out of stock but looks like a $100 off of manufacture list price.
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post #1027 of 1042 Old 01-12-2020, 09:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike RO View Post
Indefinitely postponed? Wow. I assume that the proc does not support this update. A new device probably, which is embarrassing for actual owners.
I am owner of Sony 1000 ES and ultimate updates are in 1100 (new version), because the proc of 1000 could not operate the ultimate updates. Shame on Sony.
In this case I am waiting 2020, especially CES 2020, to see the trends. Anyway, not good for Pioneer.
Hi,
No any word about universal players at CES 2020 irrespective to company’s.
Is the end of such devices era?
Thanks.
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post #1028 of 1042 Old 01-13-2020, 03:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike RO View Post
Hi,
No any word about universal players at CES 2020 irrespective to company’s.
Is the end of such devices era?
Thanks.
Nothing. I did some google searching last week and the word was the yearly update cycle is a thing of the past. Everyone is going into the year with the same players they had last year.

I don't think it's the end of the era, but players are about as capable as they can be made. I'm not seeing much use in rolling out another yearly update.

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post #1029 of 1042 Old 01-13-2020, 08:21 AM
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I don’t care so much about new update models as I do about promised firmware updates of features that were to be added when current model was introduced. This is not the only item or manufacturer in this situation.

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post #1030 of 1042 Old 01-13-2020, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by william06 View Post
I don’t care so much about new update models as I do about promised firmware updates of features that were to be added when current model was introduced. This is not the only item or manufacturer in this situation.
Pioneer is not on time for the promised updates, i have owned their Elite AVRs SC85 and SC95) their updates for Dolby Atmos and DTS X were 6 months plus late. on BDP-51 Blu-ray players their updates were one year behind, they do update though that is for sure.

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post #1031 of 1042 Old 01-15-2020, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by iserum View Post
Pioneer is not on time for the promised updates, i have owned their Elite AVRs SC85 and SC95) their updates for Dolby Atmos and DTS X were 6 months plus late. on BDP-51 Blu-ray players their updates were one year behind, they do update though that is for sure.
Yes, I owned a SC-LX801 before. I got a lot of updates for it, many features not promised
at launch. But they needed to deliver features due to the three year cycle.

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post #1032 of 1042 Old 01-16-2020, 03:34 PM
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While I prefer my existing 2016 model OPPO UDP-203 with 1GB of internal memory for BD-LIVE, 2 USB 3.0 jacks in the rear, 7.1 analog audio outputs, and for many other reasons I prefer the OPPO. However for the United States market the 2018 Pioneer UDP-LX500 is the best in production universal Blu-ray player on the market. The Pioneer UDP-LX800 is not offered in the USA.

It is cool to see a $100 price drop to $999 on the UDP-LX500, and many websites are out of stock at this time. However Pioneer promised a firmware update for HDR10+ in a press announcement last year. Maybe that HDR10+ firmware update will come sometime this year in 2020. Since Pioneer UDP-LX500 has tone mapping, plays SACD, DVD-Audio, and with a promised HDR10+ firmware update that would place the Panasonic flagship Blu-ray player in checkmate. All we need is that promised HDR10+ firmware update and the Pioneer remains the best of the best in production Blu-ray players.

https://www.pioneerelectronics.com/P...DR10%2B+format

Since the new Pioneer Elite SC-904 and SC-704 have HDMI 2.1, then hopefully those two A/V receivers will also get a HDR10+ firmware update so that HDR10+ can be pass through the A/V receiver from a 4K Blu-ray player or other device.

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post #1033 of 1042 Old 01-16-2020, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by HDTV1080P24 View Post
While I prefer my existing 2016 model OPPO UDP-203 with 1GB of internal memory for BD-LIVE, 2 USB 3.0 jacks in the rear, 7.1 analog audio outputs, and for many other reasons I prefer the OPPO. However for the United States market the 2018 Pioneer UDP-LX500 is the best in production universal Blu-ray player on the market. The Pioneer UDP-LX800 is not offered in the USA.



It is cool to see a $100 price drop to $999 on the UDP-LX500, and many websites are out of stock at this time. However Pioneer promised a firmware update for HDR10+ in a press announcement last year. Maybe that HDR10+ firmware update will come sometime this year in 2020. Since Pioneer UDP-LX500 has tone mapping, plays SACD, DVD-Audio, and with a promised HDR10+ firmware update that would place the Panasonic flagship Blu-ray player in checkmate. All we need is that promised HDR10+ firmware update and the Pioneer remains the best of the best in production Blu-ray players.



https://www.pioneerelectronics.com/P...DR10%2B+format



Since the new Pioneer Elite SC-904 and SC-704 have HDMI 2.1, then hopefully those two A/V receivers will also get a HDR10+ firmware update so that HDR10+ can be pass through the A/V receiver from a 4K Blu-ray player or other device.


Where did you find those new receivers are HDMI 2.1? They are supposed to be 2.0b as of today. The only receivers announced with HDMI 2.1 are the forthcoming Yamahas.


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post #1034 of 1042 Old 01-17-2020, 01:51 PM
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Where did you find those new receivers are HDMI 2.1? They are supposed to be 2.0b as of today. The only receivers announced with HDMI 2.1 are the forthcoming Yamahas.


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I was also originally saying that the Pioneer Elite SC-904 and SC-704 were HDMI 2.0b. However someone in another forum corrected me and showed me in the Pioneer's owners manual where Pioneer mentions HDMI 2.1.

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...37&postcount=3
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post #1035 of 1042 Old 01-17-2020, 01:51 PM
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[/FONT]And the third announcement of 10th December 2019 speaks about an "further delay" without a timeline or date.
What is a delay without a timeline otherwise than a indefinitely postponement?
It's simply a delay. First world problems!

I'm not at all concerned; my amp and TV can't manage HDR10+ anyway, and HDR10 is working fine.

Cheers.
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post #1036 of 1042 Old 01-17-2020, 07:51 PM
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Originally Posted by HDTV1080P24 View Post
I was also originally saying that the Pioneer Elite SC-904 and SC-704 were HDMI 2.0b. However someone in another forum corrected me and showed me in the Pioneer's owners manual where Pioneer mentions HDMI 2.1.



https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...37&postcount=3


They mention it has eARC, which is a HDMI 2.1 feature. But eARC has been implemented in many 2.0 receivers as of today. The SC-LX904 and 704 cannot accept 8k video. It’s a regular 4k video input receiver.

Pioneer Elite might be able to update them to HDMI 2.1 in the near future. Who knows. But as of today, it operates as HDMI 2.0b.


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post #1037 of 1042 Old 01-18-2020, 03:46 AM
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Originally Posted by HiRes_PR View Post
They mention it has eARC, which is a HDMI 2.1 feature. But eARC has been implemented in many 2.0 receivers as of today. The SC-LX904 and 704 cannot accept 8k video. It’s a regular 4k video input receiver.

Pioneer Elite might be able to update them to HDMI 2.1 in the near future. Who knows. But as of today, it operates as HDMI 2.0b.


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While 8K and 10K requires HDMI 2.1. There is going to be many products on the market with HDMI 2.1 that only handles 4K video. Sometime around the year 2026 native 8K source material will in theory be offered. So in 6 to 10 years people will want to buy a new A/V receiver with 8K pass through.
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post #1038 of 1042 Old 01-18-2020, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by HDTV1080P24 View Post
While 8K and 10K requires HDMI 2.1. There is going to be many products on the market with HDMI 2.1 that only handles 4K video. Sometime around the year 2026 native 8K source material will in theory be offered. So in 6 to 10 years people will want to buy a new A/V receiver with 8K pass through.
i really wanted to hold on to old High end AVR but due to HDMI pass through it was impossible, it is insane keep buying new equipment just for pass through i have two Pioneer AVR SC95 and SC85 are victims of pass through issue, although they were 4K advertised SC85 is non HDCP 2.2 and SC95 won't pass DV. i am using HD Fury switch for Apple tv on one unit and bought Marantz last year as doing hd fury for more that one in same system is just not cost effective.
i might buy another AVr in 2026 when realistically 8K content available.
8K will have stiff challenge to implement as human eye will have hard time appreciating 8K until unit is 75 inch or larger which is not practical for lot of rooms in house. it is important to not stuck on these specs. which looks good on paper with no practical implementation, because there will be always one weak link in the chain.

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post #1039 of 1042 Old 01-18-2020, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by iserum View Post
i really wanted to hold on to old High end AVR but due to HDMI pass through it was impossible, it is insane keep buying new equipment just for pass through i have two Pioneer AVR SC95 and SC85 are victims of pass through issue, although they were 4K advertised SC85 is non HDCP 2.2 and SC95 won't pass DV. i am using HD Fury switch for Apple tv on one unit and bought Marantz last year as doing hd fury for more that one in same system is just not cost effective.
i might buy another AVr in 2026 when realistically 8K content available.
8K will have stiff challenge to implement as human eye will have hard time appreciating 8K until unit is 75 inch or larger which is not practical for lot of rooms in house. it is important to not stuck on these specs. which looks good on paper with no practical implementation, because there will be always one weak link in the chain.
I wish Pioneer and other A/V receiver companies would release receivers in the $3,000-$4,000+ range with up-gradable motherboard slots. Then one could keep their A/V receiver for 10 to 20 years and just upgrade the cards when new technology comes out.
For example if the power supply goes out have a new replacement pop in power supply. Have a 8K video card pass through option. Or have Auro 3D and HD Radio card upgrade. In the ideal world A/V receivers should be up-gradable like desktop PC’s. Then more consumers would be willing to upgrade since one swaps out a card for $200 or $300+ instead of buying a new A/V receiver for $3,000+.

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post #1040 of 1042 Old 01-18-2020, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by HDTV1080P24 View Post
I wish Pioneer and other A/V receiver companies would release receivers in the $3,000-$4,000+ range with up-gradable motherboard slots. Then one could keep their A/V receiver for 10 to 20 years and just upgrade the cards when new technology comes out.
For example if the power supply goes out have a new replacement pop in power supply. Have a 8K video card pass through option. Or have Auro 3D and HD Radio card upgrade. In the ideal world A/V receivers should be up-gradable like desktop PC’s. Then more consumers would be willing to upgrade since one swaps out a card for $200 or $300+ instead of buy a new A/V receiver for $3,000+.


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post #1041 of 1042 Old 01-20-2020, 06:56 PM
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I respect Vincent as a calibrator and enjoy his reviews immensely, but the test patterns on the S&M 2nd Edition disc don't lie. Barring a bug on the disc that only affects the UB9000 or a bug in the UB9000 itself, it's reasonable to conclude its SD chroma upsampling is horrid.
I found that interesting as I got myself a ub420 recently and found it to be pretty good at handling SD. Maybe some of my other players are somewhat better (s790, 83, 103d, 205, XA2), but not significantly.

Well, it turned out that the test patterns do lie: I tested with SD patterns from 2nd edition BD and got same horrible results, just as reported. However when I used DVD (!) with the same SD patterns (it came with 2nd edition BD as a bonus DVD) the tests results were almost perfect. Go figure...

So it looks like it was a problem with tests. Anyway, with real world material, ub420 handles itself pretty well.
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post #1042 of 1042 Old 01-21-2020, 01:13 PM
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I found that interesting as I got myself a ub420 recently and found it to be pretty good at handling SD. Maybe some of my other players are somewhat better (s790, 83, 103d, 205, XA2), but not significantly.

Well, it turned out that the test patterns do lie: I tested with SD patterns from 2nd edition BD and got same horrible results, just as reported. However when I used DVD (!) with the same SD patterns (it came with 2nd edition BD as a bonus DVD) the tests results were almost perfect. Go figure...

So it looks like it was a problem with tests. Anyway, with real world material, ub420 handles itself pretty well.
Thanks for posting this followup; I didn't even know there was a DVD in the case under the manual

After checking, you're right. The Chroma Zone Plate and CUE test patterns on the DVD are displayed perfectly on the UB9000. This demonstrates the value of verifying results using multiple test pattern sources, which I should've done.

If I had to guess, there's probably an issue in the UB9000 decoder related to upscaling SD encoded as VC-1 (which is what's on the Blu-ray disc) vs. MPEG-2 (standard DVD). This would be similar to an issue found on the LX500 (and UDP-203) related to upscaling 1080p test patterns on the S&M UHD disc to 4K:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...l#post58422480

It's possible there's an issue with the test patterns themselves, but Stacey Spears is pretty meticulous and I'd be surprised if that's the case.
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