Is Ultra HD Blu-ray Doomed? - Page 10 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
View Poll Results: Is Ultra HD Blu-ray Doomed?
It's toast & sooner than you think 25 4.30%
It'll stick around for a while but it's doomed 140 24.10%
It'll keep being a niche option for major new releases, for years to come 308 53.01%
As more people buy 4K (and 8K) TVs UHD Blu-ray will make a comeback 108 18.59%
Voters: 581. You may not vote on this poll

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post #271 of 305 Old 04-08-2019, 11:04 PM
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The reality is that the entire consumer market is slowly (or quickly depending on point of view) wrapping itself around millennials. Their demographic spends more on a phone (a grand) than they do on a display for their domicile. The ones I know will buy a new phone every year (actually now they don’t even buy them, they rent), but the only tv they’ll buy is on sale on Black Friday. A cheapo model.

They do not care about audio quality. Look at the entire destruction of the record industry. Who buys albums anymore? They don’t even purchase stuff like they used to from an online source. “99 cent songs, that’s too expensive. I’ll just stream some stuff through a subscription service instead or watch it for free on YouTube. I’m not interested in high quality audio at all. If I want to hear that I’ll go to the concert and film it myself on my smartphone so I can then post it online and try to be an influencer.”

Same for HT and films. Films will get put right up there with music in importance. They’ll stream it, at their convenience, on their phone or tablet. Large screen? PQ or audio quality? Immersion? “I’m immersed in it on my phone dude!” Being an influencer is more important than anything as are their social media apps, taking pics of everything, and posting all their fake life online. That’s the root of why ultra Blu Ray discs will go away. It’s why automobile mfr’s are more concerned with the latest ADAS, and tech integration than they are feel and chassis design. Hey as long as the crash test dummy machine OK’s it, and it’s got the latest tech garbage, that’s all that matters. Yeah yeah, Marvel films hit the billions at the theater, sure do. But that’s more so they can post online that they went and brag to friends. And eventually people will get sick of men in tights playing every superho ever colored in a comic book.

Sorry to be OT, but you have to look at the root of a problem. And that root is demographics. It has nothing to do with 4K Blu Ray discs. It’s an app world, a streaming world, and we’ll see many things die. Pretty sad too. Watch the HT space for decline in mid level stuff in favor of all in the box, cheap crap. High end will remain, low end will remain. The middle will suffer. Seeing it with everything I love. Better have deep pockets, or be able to flip the bird at all of it, or join them being an influencer taking pics of everything you do and being an online personality. Our society is becoming entirely based around that phone, apps and streaming. It’s what happens when highly addictive things become an epidemic. Most are just frogs in that boiler, water is just luke warm so far so they won’t jump out.

I watched the record industry I was in kill themselves or take themselves out. It’ll hit film as well, just hasn’t happened yet.


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post #272 of 305 Old 04-09-2019, 11:16 AM
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^ It's sad, Tommy, but I think your analysis is right on the money. It's a good thing HD Blu ray has a decent market share now, buys us time against the those quality eating zombies in your pic

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post #273 of 305 Old 04-09-2019, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by nissling View Post
I am honestly disgusted by the fact that streaming services do keep track on what I am watching and come with suggestions. What I am watching in my home is part of my private life and I don't want anyone to keep an eye at me. With physical media, I can keep my integrity the way I want it.

Do you do Google searches, get on Facebook, get on AVS Forum ? I mean really, you'd have to be a hermit not to be under almost constant scrutiny today. Knowing what movies I might like would be the least of my worries. I signed up for online ground school and immediately I get a barrage of ads for pilot and aircraft related stuff.


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post #274 of 305 Old 04-09-2019, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn View Post
Do you do Google searches, get on Facebook, get on AVS Forum ? I mean really, you'd have to be a hermit not to be under almost constant scrutiny today. Knowing what movies I might like would be the least of my worries. I signed up for online ground school and immediately I get a barrage of ads for pilot and aircraft related stuff.





Art


I totally agree with your comment it’s the least of my worries. EZ Pass knows how fast it took me from point A to point B so what? Onstar knows if I take a detour own the way home and my CC trace my every transaction and yes my browser history is an open book. I’ve nothing to hide give me recommendations so I don’t spend endless time scrolling to see what’s available.
I’m off my soapbox.
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post #275 of 305 Old 04-09-2019, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn View Post
Do you do Google searches, get on Facebook, get on AVS Forum ? I mean really, you'd have to be a hermit not to be under almost constant scrutiny today. Knowing what movies I might like would be the least of my worries. I signed up for online ground school and immediately I get a barrage of ads for pilot and aircraft related stuff.


Art
I am very aware of that Google and Facebook know plenty of stuff about me. And that's fine because I have accepted their agreement and I'm using their services. I don't feel very comfortable however with a company like Apple knowing what I'm watching, when I'm watching it, how I'm watching it, how much of it I'm watching, whether or not I get dropouts etc. I have no trouble with Amazon keeping track of all my purchases as I do need to buy films on a marketplace to even get to own a physical copy in the first place and I am also rating films on Letterboxd when I feel like it.


With physical media, I have the option to choose my own integrity. With streaming and for most overall internet usage however, there's no real option. I don't have a smartphone and I never connect my Oppo to the internet.
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post #276 of 305 Old 04-09-2019, 02:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TommyDeVito View Post
The reality is that the entire consumer market is slowly (or quickly depending on point of view) wrapping itself around millennials. Their demographic spends more on a phone (a grand) than they do on a display for their domicile. The ones I know will buy a new phone every year (actually now they don’t even buy them, they rent), but the only tv they’ll buy is on sale on Black Friday. A cheapo model.



They do not care about audio quality. Look at the entire destruction of the record industry. Who buys albums anymore? They don’t even purchase stuff like they used to from an online source. “99 cent songs, that’s too expensive. I’ll just stream some stuff through a subscription service instead or watch it for free on YouTube. I’m not interested in high quality audio at all. If I want to hear that I’ll go to the concert and film it myself on my smartphone so I can then post it online and try to be an influencer.”



Same for HT and films. Films will get put right up there with music in importance. They’ll stream it, at their convenience, on their phone or tablet. Large screen? PQ or audio quality? Immersion? “I’m immersed in it on my phone dude!” Being an influencer is more important than anything as are their social media apps, taking pics of everything, and posting all their fake life online. That’s the root of why ultra Blu Ray discs will go away. It’s why automobile mfr’s are more concerned with the latest ADAS, and tech integration than they are feel and chassis design. Hey as long as the crash test dummy machine OK’s it, and it’s got the latest tech garbage, that’s all that matters. Yeah yeah, Marvel films hit the billions at the theater, sure do. But that’s more so they can post online that they went and brag to friends. And eventually people will get sick of men in tights playing every superho ever colored in a comic book.



Sorry to be OT, but you have to look at the root of a problem. And that root is demographics. It has nothing to do with 4K Blu Ray discs. It’s an app world, a streaming world, and we’ll see many things die. Pretty sad too. Watch the HT space for decline in mid level stuff in favor of all in the box, cheap crap. High end will remain, low end will remain. The middle will suffer. Seeing it with everything I love. Better have deep pockets, or be able to flip the bird at all of it, or join them being an influencer taking pics of everything you do and being an online personality. Our society is becoming entirely based around that phone, apps and streaming. It’s what happens when highly addictive things become an epidemic. Most are just frogs in that boiler, water is just luke warm so far so they won’t jump out.



I watched the record industry I was in kill themselves or take themselves out. It’ll hit film as well, just hasn’t happened yet.



Right on. This is exactly right. Back when vinyl started down the drain, a cheap turntable or an expensive turntable is all that was left. Same is happening to a lot of things in this hobby.

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post #277 of 305 Old 04-09-2019, 05:11 PM
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It eventually will disappear, but you can say that about anything. There’s always going to be another cheaper convenient solution come in, so why bother stressing over it? The thing that I don’t like is when UHD blurays are supseeded, I would like something where I still had ownership of the product, which is half the reason I enjoy buying UHD blurays AND that I can watch them at anytime and give to family and friends to borrow, etc. and I only started purchasing physical media a year ago and have already got a good collection going.

My main concern with streaming, is you are simply not getting the best quality and I am limited by my internet speeds and data usage. It took Australia decades to get NBN and it was the biggest financial disaster in the history of our government. And still it didn’t fix much in terms of speeds, especially in rural areas where 100’s of thousands of people reporting that the wireless infrastructure is even worse than before. So if that’s anything to judge by, by the time we get readily available 4K content with quality equal to that of physical media and be able to stream it at home regularly with not going over data caps, it could very well be another 10-20years.

I’m still annoyed that some of my favourite tv shows aren’t even available on bluray when that’s been out since 2006 lol.
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post #278 of 305 Old 04-12-2019, 07:48 AM
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Even worse than many predicted.

DVD and Blu-ray sales nearly halved over five years, MPAA report says

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2019...a-report-says/

"In its annual Theatrical Home Entertainment Market Environment report, the Motion Picture Association of America described an immensely sharp drop-off of physical media sales over the past five years. According to the data, which was obtained from DEG and IHS Markit, global sales of video disc formats (which in this context means DVD, Blu-ray, and UltraHD Blu-ray) were $25.2 billion in 2014 but only $13.1 in 2018. That's a drop in the ballpark of 50 percent.

FURTHER READING
Disney+ launches on November 12 for $6.99/mo, plus new Marvel, Star Wars series
Don't expect 8K Blu-rays or other emerging quality-focused formats to turn the tide, either. Market data published by Forbes showed that the aging, low-definition DVD format still accounts for 57.9 percent of physical media sales, and 4K Blu-rays are only 5.3 percent."
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post #279 of 305 Old 04-12-2019, 08:37 AM
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Even worse than many predicted.

DVD and Blu-ray sales nearly halved over five years, MPAA report says

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2019...a-report-says/

"In its annual Theatrical Home Entertainment Market Environment report, the Motion Picture Association of America described an immensely sharp drop-off of physical media sales over the past five years. According to the data, which was obtained from DEG and IHS Markit, global sales of video disc formats (which in this context means DVD, Blu-ray, and UltraHD Blu-ray) were $25.2 billion in 2014 but only $13.1 in 2018. That's a drop in the ballpark of 50 percent.

FURTHER READING
Disney+ launches on November 12 for $6.99/mo, plus new Marvel, Star Wars series
Don't expect 8K Blu-rays or other emerging quality-focused formats to turn the tide, either. Market data published by Forbes showed that the aging, low-definition DVD format still accounts for 57.9 percent of physical media sales, and 4K Blu-rays are only 5.3 percent."
Read that article this morning as well. While I also enjoy the convenience of streaming I can't ignore some of the shortcomings and I wonder if those will become prevalent to more folks over time. While I don't think audio quality will ever be a driver for the masses I do think things like bandwidth limitations, bandwidth caps and disappearing content could be significant enough for folks to rethink the way they purchase content. Or ... maybe not. All of these have been issues to some degree to date, but that hasn't slowed down the migration.
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post #280 of 305 Old 04-12-2019, 01:04 PM
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You have to be concerned about Hollywood support for UHD BD, over the long term.

The Disney Plus announcement could be a bad sign. All those assets for $7 a month, many of which are some of the best-selling discs of all time.

You get 4K and HDR support and downloadable for offline viewing.

However only 4 MCU movies in the first year of the service, which will start in November. Maybe they want to try to sell as many discs of recent MCU movies first before putting them up for streaming?
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post #281 of 305 Old 04-18-2019, 04:40 PM
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Way, way, way back in the day almost all of the studios supported laser discs...somewhat. Big movies, artsy movies, Criterion Collection, 8 versions of Star Wars found their way to Laser Disc. I think the entire electronics industry sold ~2 million players, and a lot of those were upgrades to the same people.

I'm not saying 4K BD will always be supported, but as long as they make some money on it, it will stay around.


They might end up costing $50-$100 per movie, but it it will be around.
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post #282 of 305 Old 04-24-2019, 02:48 PM
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I'm right inside the lower bound of being a millennial (born in late '82) and share a similarly proportional amount of the stereotypical attributes that have been ascribed to them/us.

I have a full 4K/Atmos theater with B&W speakers and DIY subwoofer... but around the house, my other displays are indeed low-end BlackFriday deals or cheap used 1080p sets. I financed my flagship phone as part of a trade-in promo, but that was 2 years ago and now it's paid for. I watch movies on an iPad, but pretty much only on a plane or airport terminal when traveling for work. I post plenty of online photos, but 99.9% are of my kids viewable only to my parents and grandfather so they can see what's going on between visits. My vehicle has Android Auto because I installed it... it's also a body-on-frame SUV with 230k miles that I paid cash for and I do all of my own maintenance. I stream music through Spotify and haven't bought an album since the early '00s... but the bulk of my audio listening is NPR.

I've never once yelled a kid to get off my lawn... I may have once kicked a cat.

Hyperbole can be fun and stereotypes are often true in aggregate (otherwise they wouldn't be stereotypes)... but often times they also lead you to deeper and more problematic assumptions regarding a group that can prevent you from seeing people as individuals.

I posted this elsewhere in regards to streaming and "owning" digital content vs. buying physical media, but it seems to apply here as well...

Maybe I'm the kind of blind slave-to-convenience that these services rely on to survive, but the convenience, instant gratification, and ubiquitous access to streaming content (subscription, rented, or "owned") is too much to ignore or exclude myself from.

If I deeply care about something (mostly Star Wars and some Marvel, probably less than 5 discs a year), I'll wait until the physical release window and buy it on UHD, probably watch the disc once, and default to the digital copy on Vudu for future viewings out of sheer convenience (along with only having a physical player hooked up in my Theater)... maybe I'll get around to ripping it to my Plex server, maybe not. If I really want to see a particular film during the Digital-only release window, I'll buy it from whatever Movies Anywhere connected service has the best price and watch it on Vudu. If I haven't got around to watching it by the time it hits the Rental window and don't think I'll watch it again, I'll rent from Vudu (or Prime if I have credits from no-rush Prime shipping). If I just want something to watch, I'll poke around Netflix or Prime for 5 minutes and pick something or head to YouTube TV or PlutoTV.

Further complicating (or, honestly, simplifying) things is the fact that I'm a parent. Kids like a lot of random crap content that I would never consider actually purchasing. They also find the self-discovery of that content as much or more enjoyable than actually viewing it. A wide catalog of discoverable content with no per-use cost is, in most cases, VASTLY more important to them than ownership and repeat viewing of some beloved film. If something goes away, so what, there's a hundred other things available. There are definitely exceptions to this rule, especially for my boys with ASD who crave structure/repetition (I have 3 physical copies and a rip of Mickey's House of Villains for if/when it can't be streamed), but for my girls it's the complete opposite and they derive more joy from discovering content on their own through Netflix or other streaming apps and can usually wait for the rental or subscription window of theatrical releases to roll around. I'm sure this will change over time, but it's the reality of how they consume content at their current age (7 and 10). For this reason alone I'll gladly pay for Netflix (and Disney+ when it launches) even if I never view a single piece of content from either service.

I'm a pragmatist and convenience matters. The fact that a 4K stream with DD+ (and Atmos when available) is past the point of diminishing returns for me personally makes the calculus easier. I've not yet lost access to a film I "own" digitally and Movies Anywhere has made shopping around while maintaining a consolidated/aggregated collection mostly seamless. I've never lost access to a piece of digitally "owned" content or, if I have, I honestly haven't noticed. If I do... it's just a movie.
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Last edited by Stephen Hopkins; 04-24-2019 at 03:06 PM.
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post #283 of 305 Old 04-29-2019, 02:12 PM
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Well if anything ever made the case for UHD Blu-Ray, last night's episode of Game of Thrones certainly did. It perfectly highlighted the current weaknesses of streaming and even cable/satellite broadcasting garbage standards. I have a feeling Season 8 GoT is going to sell a LOT of physical copies.
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post #284 of 305 Old 04-29-2019, 02:33 PM
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Well if anything ever made the case for UHD Blu-Ray, last night's episode of Game of Thrones certainly did. It perfectly highlighted the current weaknesses of streaming and even cable/satellite broadcasting garbage standards. I have a feeling Season 8 GoT is going to sell a LOT of physical copies.
When the colorspace mastering of a TV show is so bad that the blogs are talking about it, you know something is off. I'm going to try re-watching it tonight or tomorrow to see if capacity played a roll, but I was watching it at 2:00am eastern, so I'm guessing it has more to do with how it was mastered than the backend infrastructure (even though high utilization likely exasperated it). I'm also afraid that HBO and/or Benioff/Weiss will say it was a creative choice to emulate the confusion of battle and it won't be much/any better when released on disc... even if that's true, it completely sucked the life out of the episode.

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post #285 of 305 Old 04-29-2019, 02:40 PM
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Yes they tried to emulate a realistic light level at the cost of visual info for the viewer.
Ironic after spending a ton of dough with various visual studios including VFX out of Vancouver, BC and Australian company Illoura.

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post #286 of 305 Old 04-30-2019, 12:09 AM
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I re-watched it early this evening and it was much more watchable with far less compression artifacts, sharper detail, and generally less muddy/washed-out look. While I still think the mastering choices were sub-optimal, it looks like MUCH of loss of detail and muddy appearance was indeed compression-induced.

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post #287 of 305 Old 04-30-2019, 07:32 AM
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I re-watched it early this evening and it was much more watchable with far less compression artifacts, sharper detail, and generally less muddy/washed-out look. While I still think the mastering choices were sub-optimal, it looks like MUCH of loss of detail and muddy appearance was indeed compression-induced.
Same here. It was actually fine when I watched it and I really enjoyed it. I didn't experience near the level of issues that most people did, BUT either way, with what HDR brings to the table as far as dark scenes go, I think the blu-ray release will be a treat paired with a nice display. If nothing else, it will at least be a consistent experience. The Atmos treatment is going to be stellar and bring a whole new element of enjoyment to when things are really dark. Imagine hearing the dead army all around you, the trebuchet projectiles and dragons whooshing overhead, etc. It's gonna be goooooooooood.
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post #288 of 305 Old 04-30-2019, 08:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Montucky View Post
Well if anything ever made the case for UHD Blu-Ray, last night's episode of Game of Thrones certainly did. It perfectly highlighted the current weaknesses of streaming and even cable/satellite broadcasting garbage standards. I have a feeling Season 8 GoT is going to sell a LOT of physical copies.
That actually gives me some hope. Good gosh, that was the ugliest movie I've watched since I rented a VHS at Blockbuster. Just horrendous looking. Banding on top of banding. Black crush that covered half the screen. It was like watching through a screen door behind dark tinted glass.

The millennial "whatever" attitude is a huge problem, but you can't talk to them. They're on their phone. Always. Home theater to them is their computer screen and a mini soundbar and their phone on vibrate.

The remaining hope resides hopefully within a sliver of them that will demand improvements in streaming that will one day rival what a UHD disc looks like and can deliver 9.4.6 sound if we want it. Truth be told, as long as that is attainable, who would care if it was on a blu ray player or stream?

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post #289 of 305 Old 05-03-2019, 09:12 AM
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DVD on release was a no brainer, Blu-ray took a while but then everything fell into place, TVs Projectors Blu Ray players. Also comes Blu ray audio and for me a hit.
Now 4k. Bought a 4k TV as needed a new one. So bought a 4k player samsung 8500 and now on a Sony 800.

First it appeared companies were pushing atmos releases onto 4k so Blu Ray would be just Dts Dolby
So not sure. Player support is dismal Oppo and Samsung dropping out. No 4k players from Yamaha Onkyo Denon
Its isn't 4k that impresses but HDR. If HDR could be done on Blu Ray then 4k could die.

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post #290 of 305 Old 05-13-2019, 12:04 AM
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If UltraHD prerecorded physical media is doomed, it's by design.



It's so much cheaper and more profitable for them to sell you downloads/streams, tightly control distribution, sales and supply, and eliminate a heck of a lot of packaging costs, distribution costs, low-traffic retail accounts and retailer margin allowances.



Those wanting higher quality and pseudo-ownership of movies may live with update purgatory or face their expensive collections becoming unplayable at some point in future, which is exactly what we have with Blu-ray & UltraHD Blu-ray. UltraHD in particular is great in how it's soooo easy to have it playing on a wide range of computers with zero problems. Lovely stuff. Consumer Electronics at its best.



Again, all by design.
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post #291 of 305 Old 05-13-2019, 05:04 PM
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You have to be concerned about Hollywood support for UHD BD, over the long term.

The Disney Plus announcement could be a bad sign. All those assets for $7 a month, many of which are some of the best-selling discs of all time.

You get 4K and HDR support and downloadable for offline viewing.

However only 4 MCU movies in the first year of the service, which will start in November. Maybe they want to try to sell as many discs of recent MCU movies first before putting them up for streaming?
One of those will be the biggest movie of the year(and maybe ever). Avengers: Endgame is coming to Disney+ on December 11th.

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post #292 of 305 Old 05-15-2019, 05:32 AM
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Originally Posted by TommyDeVito View Post
The reality is that the entire consumer market is slowly (or quickly depending on point of view) wrapping itself around millennials. Their demographic spends more on a phone (a grand) than they do on a display for their domicile. The ones I know will buy a new phone every year (actually now they don’t even buy them, they rent), but the only tv they’ll buy is on sale on Black Friday. A cheapo model.

They do not care about audio quality. Look at the entire destruction of the record industry. Who buys albums anymore? They don’t even purchase stuff like they used to from an online source. “99 cent songs, that’s too expensive. I’ll just stream some stuff through a subscription service instead or watch it for free on YouTube. I’m not interested in high quality audio at all. If I want to hear that I’ll go to the concert and film it myself on my smartphone so I can then post it online and try to be an influencer.”

Same for HT and films. Films will get put right up there with music in importance. They’ll stream it, at their convenience, on their phone or tablet. Large screen? PQ or audio quality? Immersion? “I’m immersed in it on my phone dude!” Being an influencer is more important than anything as are their social media apps, taking pics of everything, and posting all their fake life online. That’s the root of why ultra Blu Ray discs will go away. It’s why automobile mfr’s are more concerned with the latest ADAS, and tech integration than they are feel and chassis design. Hey as long as the crash test dummy machine OK’s it, and it’s got the latest tech garbage, that’s all that matters. Yeah yeah, Marvel films hit the billions at the theater, sure do. But that’s more so they can post online that they went and brag to friends. And eventually people will get sick of men in tights playing every superho ever colored in a comic book.

Sorry to be OT, but you have to look at the root of a problem. And that root is demographics. It has nothing to do with 4K Blu Ray discs. It’s an app world, a streaming world, and we’ll see many things die. Pretty sad too. Watch the HT space for decline in mid level stuff in favor of all in the box, cheap crap. High end will remain, low end will remain. The middle will suffer. Seeing it with everything I love. Better have deep pockets, or be able to flip the bird at all of it, or join them being an influencer taking pics of everything you do and being an online personality. Our society is becoming entirely based around that phone, apps and streaming. It’s what happens when highly addictive things become an epidemic. Most are just frogs in that boiler, water is just luke warm so far so they won’t jump out.

I watched the record industry I was in kill themselves or take themselves out. It’ll hit film as well, just hasn’t happened yet.

I'd say its all this combined with boomers downsizing. Generation X pretty much are keeping physical media alive IMO.
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post #293 of 305 Old 05-19-2019, 10:17 PM
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I hope not. I found this forum mainly because I want to sell my Xbox One X to get an 4K BD Player.
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post #294 of 305 Old 05-20-2019, 02:30 AM
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Originally Posted by TommyDeVito View Post
The reality is that the entire consumer market is slowly (or quickly depending on point of view) wrapping itself around millennials. Their demographic spends more on a phone (a grand) than they do on a display for their domicile. The ones I know will buy a new phone every year (actually now they don’t even buy them, they rent), but the only tv they’ll buy is on sale on Black Friday. A cheapo model.

They do not care about audio quality. Look at the entire destruction of the record industry. Who buys albums anymore? They don’t even purchase stuff like they used to from an online source. “99 cent songs, that’s too expensive. I’ll just stream some stuff through a subscription service instead or watch it for free on YouTube. I’m not interested in high quality audio at all. If I want to hear that I’ll go to the concert and film it myself on my smartphone so I can then post it online and try to be an influencer.”

Same for HT and films. Films will get put right up there with music in importance. They’ll stream it, at their convenience, on their phone or tablet. Large screen? PQ or audio quality? Immersion? “I’m immersed in it on my phone dude!” Being an influencer is more important than anything as are their social media apps, taking pics of everything, and posting all their fake life online. That’s the root of why ultra Blu Ray discs will go away. It’s why automobile mfr’s are more concerned with the latest ADAS, and tech integration than they are feel and chassis design. Hey as long as the crash test dummy machine OK’s it, and it’s got the latest tech garbage, that’s all that matters. Yeah yeah, Marvel films hit the billions at the theater, sure do. But that’s more so they can post online that they went and brag to friends. And eventually people will get sick of men in tights playing every superho ever colored in a comic book.

Sorry to be OT, but you have to look at the root of a problem. And that root is demographics. It has nothing to do with 4K Blu Ray discs. It’s an app world, a streaming world, and we’ll see many things die. Pretty sad too. Watch the HT space for decline in mid level stuff in favor of all in the box, cheap crap. High end will remain, low end will remain. The middle will suffer. Seeing it with everything I love. Better have deep pockets, or be able to flip the bird at all of it, or join them being an influencer taking pics of everything you do and being an online personality. Our society is becoming entirely based around that phone, apps and streaming. It’s what happens when highly addictive things become an epidemic. Most are just frogs in that boiler, water is just luke warm so far so they won’t jump out.

I watched the record industry I was in kill themselves or take themselves out. It’ll hit film as well, just hasn’t happened yet.

This could be true for North America, Western Europe and some asian "bubbles" like Hong Kong... I love America, but one thing I can say for sure is that most of the Americans don't know the world outside north america... the mass land between the Atlantic and the Pacific Ocean...

There is a whole world outside North America, a world with values, tastes and shopping habits different from yours...

There are large portions of the planet where the network infrastructures are subpar and people for political, technological and cultural reasons will never have that kind of access to the streaming platforms... I know what I'm talking about because I'm a cloud architect in the telco industry, and I travel a lot around the world...

Even Music that looks so easy to stream (is low bandwidth streaming), is not universal streamed... maybe the physical media industry is doomed in the North American Mass market (and I'm not even fully convinced of it)... but is alive and kicking in many other areas...

And don't forget that AV companies cater for high end users, the ones that spend thousands of $s or €s in equipments... and for high end users physical media is a a sort of status symbol (just look to the vynil resurrection...)... is high end that keep alive the sector not the mass market...

If you look at the market, there are currently more high end UHD BD Players than cheap ones... and the majority of those players don't even got streaming apps...
That's a sign that the UHD BD market is becoming an high-end one... low cost streaming devices aren't profitable, High End BDs are...

Physical media is not going anywhere, simply is becoming more and more high-end... where the money is...
And that's in North America, where the market is getting so crazy an so low profitable (mostly due to customers attitude to return merchandise) that several great vendors are avoiding it...

In several (large) markets, the transition to streaming will not be so fast... if it will ever happen...
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post #295 of 305 Old 05-20-2019, 06:17 AM
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I hope not. I found this forum mainly because I want to sell my Xbox One X to get an 4K BD Player.
???? Why would you buy an XB1X to play UHD BDs? A cheaper XB1S will do the same thing. The advantage of having an XB1X is for games, not playing UHD BDs

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post #296 of 305 Old 05-20-2019, 07:04 AM
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Originally Posted by I-SIBI View Post
This could be true for North America, Western Europe and some asian "bubbles" like Hong Kong... I love America, but one thing I can say for sure is that most of the Americans don't know the world outside north america... the mass land between the Atlantic and the Pacific Ocean...

There is a whole world outside North America, a world with values, tastes and shopping habits different from yours...

There are large portions of the planet where the network infrastructures are subpar and people for political, technological and cultural reasons will never have that kind of access to the streaming platforms... I know what I'm talking about because I'm a cloud architect in the telco industry, and I travel a lot around the world...

Even Music that looks so easy to stream (is low bandwidth streaming), is not universal streamed... maybe the physical media industry is doomed in the North American Mass market (and I'm not even fully convinced of it)... but is alive and kicking in many other areas...

And don't forget that AV companies cater for high end users, the ones that spend thousands of $s or €s in equipments... and for high end users physical media is a a sort of status symbol (just look to the vynil resurrection...)... is high end that keep alive the sector not the mass market...

If you look at the market, there are currently more high end UHD BD Players than cheap ones... and the majority of those players don't even got streaming apps...
That's a sign that the UHD BD market is becoming an high-end one... low cost streaming devices aren't profitable, High End BDs are...

Physical media is not going anywhere, simply is becoming more and more high-end... where the money is...
And that's in North America, where the market is getting so crazy an so low profitable (mostly due to customers attitude to return merchandise) that several great vendors are avoiding it...

In several (large) markets, the transition to streaming will not be so fast... if it will ever happen...
Your right of course about markets outside the main ones, I don't really like that terms but in this case its a catchall for the US, Europe and southeast Asia, but the problem is the remaining markets are relatively small, and while streaming isn't or wont be economical there, much like most of middle America actually, the potential for disc sales are just to small to justify for many companies. I HATE that it's moving more towards streaming my self, I am still a rabid movie collector, on disc, I have 4 bookshelves full to back that up. But frankly there are just to many people of ALL Ages that are fine with the streaming quality they get. My mom falls into that group to a point she buys movies every now and then, shes more likely to buy seasons of tv shows, but she isn't super concerned about best quality. But even though I have 4k tvs throughout the house and a huge collection of movies on hd and uhd blu ray, I still stream from netflix.
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post #297 of 305 Old 05-20-2019, 07:30 AM
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Your right of course about markets outside the main ones, I don't really like that terms but in this case its a catchall for the US, Europe and southeast Asia, but the problem is the remaining markets are relatively small, and while streaming isn't or wont be economical there, much like most of middle America actually, the potential for disc sales are just to small to justify for many companies. I HATE that it's moving more towards streaming my self, I am still a rabid movie collector, on disc, I have 4 bookshelves full to back that up. But frankly there are just to many people of ALL Ages that are fine with the streaming quality they get. My mom falls into that group to a point she buys movies every now and then, shes more likely to buy seasons of tv shows, but she isn't super concerned about best quality. But even though I have 4k tvs throughout the house and a huge collection of movies on hd and uhd blu ray, I still stream from netflix.
Streaming is commodity... but what is profitable are the BDs and equips you buy... streaming much less...

The mass market is pushing profits down... so is better to sell less at a much higher price than to sell a lot at a much lower price... that is the main reason why the us market is losing importance and many brands are no longer available on it...
Did you ever thought why you now have to import high end products from Europe ?
Becouse in the EU (500 millions consumers) prices are higher, customers love quality over commodity (including many millennials)... and return rates are much lower...
In China there is internet censorship so (excluding the SARs) anything is a great no, no...

You can't starve the cow and still have excellent beef...

I repeat... stop thinking that anything is happening in America will be the same in the rest of the planet...
Multinational Companies act differently in different markets...

Will streaming gain traction to the masses? Yes
Will streaming kill the physical media? NO

They will cover different markets... CD didn't kill the Vynil, that is still alive and well in the Spotify era... and record companies are doing golden business with it...

And I'm not a streaming basher... I stream all my music through a NAIM high end streamer...

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post #298 of 305 Old 05-20-2019, 07:55 AM
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???? Why would you buy an XB1X to play UHD BDs? A cheaper XB1S will do the same thing. The advantage of having an XB1X is for games, not playing UHD BDs

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I already have an Xbox One X. I was thinking about selling it because I hardly play games these days...
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post #299 of 305 Old 05-20-2019, 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted by I-SIBI View Post
Streaming is commodity... but what is profitable are the BDs and equips you buy... streaming much less...

The mass market is pushing profits down... so is better to sell less at a much higher price than to sell a lot at a much lower price... that is the main reason why the us market is losing importance and many brands are no longer available on it...
Did you ever thought why you now have to import high end products from Europe ?
Becouse in the EU (500 millions consumers) prices are higher, customers love quality over commodity (including many millennials)... and return rates are much lower...
In China there is internet censorship so (excluding the SARs) anything is a great no, no...

You can't starve the cow and still have excellent beef...

I repeat... stop thinking that anything is happening in America will be the same in the rest of the planet...
Multinational Companies act differently in different markets...

Will streaming gain traction to the masses? Yes
Will streaming kill the physical media? NO

They will cover different markets... CD didn't kill the Vynil, that is still alive and well in the Spotify era... and record companies are doing golden business with it...

And I'm not a streaming basher... I stream all my music through a NAIM high end streamer...
Actually CD's did kill vinyl for quite some time more or less. Sure you could find it at some shops but there was little to no new vinyl released for quite a long time. It wasn't until the last say 5 or 10 years that it started coming back into fashion. But as far as music streaming that has pretty much destroyed cd sales. They are harder and harder to come by in many places. Take for example the new Slipknot album coming out, you don't have to know the band, it come out in August, there isn't even an OPTION to buy it via Amazon on CD, which is arguably one of the biggest retailers, I can get digital copies form many places, but I want the actual disc.
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post #300 of 305 Old 05-20-2019, 10:33 AM
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I find it frustrating that some UHD disks are done in 1.78.1/16:9 aspect. I thought that the 2.35:1 was the standard for 4K UHD.

I also dislike it when the format of a 2.35:1 movie changes to IMAX (1.78:1) for some important action scene. I wish the disk makers would STOP this.

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