OFFICIAL Sony UBP-X800M2 Owners Thread (No Price Talk) - Page 33 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #961 of 1006 Old 05-13-2020, 08:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by priitv8 View Post
1. I can not make the X1100 output HDR from HLG signal, whatever I do. Even if I completely disable HDR in EDID, it still outputs HLG (see screenshots). Actually, this should be expected, as until 100nits the gamma curves are supposed to match sufficiently closely. VP9.2 and WEBM container is supported. Opus audio I need to test, Vorbis is decoded to PCM inside the UBP (see screenshot).
BTW native YouTube app supported HDR on original X800, far before AndroidTV did on Bravia TV.
2. Will need to look for some action movie on DVD. I know this comb effect, but have not noticed it on the screen. And I do have motion smoothing off on the Bravia as well.
3. It looks like all 4K HDR is output at 4:2:2/12b (see screenshot). But again - what's the difference? The signal is not there in the source. It is 4:2:0/12b at best.
4. Thats how it is.
5. Then only Setup > System Settings > Auto Display > Off will help.
6. Try this link - https : // bit . ly / 3fHy687 (looks like US and EU sites download exactly the same file).

Thanks for the kind reply, priitv8.

1. This is most unusual. As you are aware, HLG cannot be accurately displayed by the PQ curve. If the x1100 outputs HLG to a non-HLG display without conversion, could this be a bug?

2. Have a few TB of interlaced TV recordings that would benefit greatly from using the LLDV output. Hope the issue is fixed in the x1100.

3&4. Good.

5&6. Brilliant, and much obliged.

Many thanks and best regards,
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post #962 of 1006 Old 05-13-2020, 09:00 PM
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Re the 4:4:4 4:2:2 4:2:0 discussion...don't forget that TV's process signals in different ways, and I suspect if Sony is sending out 4:2:2, then it's TV use 4:2:2 as the primary stage of video colorspace conversion. I played around with X800M2 using the Spears and Munsil UHD test disk, but the lack of modes to switch to in 4K and HDR rendered this pointless. All the tests using the evaluation disk indicated that all colorspace is converted through REC709 at some point, SDR, HDR, even Dolby Vision, PQ everything blinks the checkboxes for REC709 conversions from the X800M2 to my Sony X950H TV.

http://spearsandmunsil.com/portfolio...color-space-2/

Sony X950H SDR and HDR Calibration setting https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-l...l#post59249362

Sony X900F SDR and HDR Calibration settings https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-l...l#post57551552
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post #963 of 1006 Old 05-14-2020, 05:25 AM - Thread Starter
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The Sony is HDR10 BT2020 12 bit ycbcr 422, I know that.

XBR65A9G / XBR65A8F / 55R615
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post #964 of 1006 Old 05-14-2020, 05:48 AM
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How looks DTS/DTS-MA/DTS:X on X800M2 from files?
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post #965 of 1006 Old 05-14-2020, 03:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qoopy View Post
1. This is most unusual. As you are aware, HLG cannot be accurately displayed by the PQ curve. If the x1100 outputs HLG to a non-HLG display without conversion, could this be a bug?
2. Have a few TB of interlaced TV recordings that would benefit greatly from using the LLDV output. Hope the issue is fixed in the x1100.
1. Problem may be on my side. I simply seem to be unable to make my UBP think it is looking at a HDR but non-HLG display. At least with Vertex (and mobile app) I can not create EDID so that UBP would try HLG tonemapping into PQ.
2. Have not tried fast-panning interlaced material yet.
But in general - I am sure X800M2 and X1100ES have 100% identical image path, including software. So I do not believe X1100ES would output any different picture signal from same source, than what X800M2 does.
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post #966 of 1006 Old 05-14-2020, 10:23 PM
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Originally Posted by bl4ck View Post
How looks DTS/DTS-MA/DTS:X on X800M2 from files?
They don't look like anything, but sound great.
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post #967 of 1006 Old 05-15-2020, 12:54 AM
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mkv /m2ts and passthrough to avr works without any problems? problem is only with atmos? truehd is also sending as mlcm?
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post #968 of 1006 Old 05-16-2020, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by bl4ck View Post
mkv /m2ts and passthrough to avr works without any problems? problem is only with atmos? truehd is also sending as mlcm?
all DTS is fine from mkv and m2ts.
Mkv ruins truehd as recorded on bluray and sony does not like it.
So for truehd one needs to stick with m2ts.
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post #969 of 1006 Old 05-16-2020, 09:36 AM
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Support SRT and orginal PGS/SUP sutitles?
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post #970 of 1006 Old 05-16-2020, 09:57 AM
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800 vs 900f 65"

All $ things equal , is there a real significant difference in the 800g/h and 900f models?



Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
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post #971 of 1006 Old 05-17-2020, 02:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bl4ck View Post
Support SRT and orginal PGS/SUP sutitles?
mkv is srt only, m2ts is pgs only.
If you search this forum, you will find it discussed.
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post #972 of 1006 Old 05-17-2020, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qoopy View Post
Thanks for the kind reply, priitv8.

1. You'll need to test this with a non-HLG display, or select a non-HLG EDID in the vertex. UB820 will map HLG->PQ, but x800m2 outputs SDR/709, a very poor choice. What about the x1100?
While you're at it, perhaps you could also test if youtube vp92 video and opus audio codec are supported. The Japan Geographic channel has HLG clips available for download. Select 337 and 251.

2. Any genuine 25i/29i clip where odd/even fields are captured at different time code will do, like this Nogizaka concert tv recording. Combing artifact can be easily detected if both field are merged into the same frame. Does the x1100 have same issue?

3. By default, the ub820 outputs [email protected]4:4:4/12b and [email protected]:2:2/12b, switching automatically from one to the other depending on contents, thus fully utilizing the available bandwidth of HDMI2.0. However the x800m2 can only do [email protected]4:2:2/12b and [email protected]:2:2/12b by default unless forcing the 4:4:4 option which messes up the 60p output. Can the x1100 do what the ub820 do?

4. Sad to learn that both the x1100 and vertex do not upscale framerate.

5. Found out it's not the FF but Play button that brings up the clip info screen. This takes up just a line at the top of screen on the x700, but half a screen on the x800m2 for a few seconds.What an annoyance.

6.Would you know where one can download a copy of the old M45.R.0050 firmware as a backup?

Many thanks and best regards,
I just rendered out a buttload of personally shot HLG clips, ran them through my X800M2 on a USB drive...damned if the stupid thing doesn't work with HLG, just plays them as blown out SDR rec709...ugh, Sony!!!!!!!!! My Sony TV auto switches to HLG when I put the USB into it directly.

Paul

Sony X950H SDR and HDR Calibration setting https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-l...l#post59249362

Sony X900F SDR and HDR Calibration settings https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-l...l#post57551552
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post #973 of 1006 Old 05-17-2020, 10:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Anderegg View Post
...damned if the stupid thing doesn't work with HLG, just plays them as blown out SDR rec709...ugh, Sony!!!!!!!!! My Sony TV auto switches to HLG when I put the USB into it directly.
I wonder why do I get a different result?
OK, I have the X1100ES, but as I've said - I would be surprised if their software were any different.
I will try with my a7III out-of-camera HLG as well.
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post #974 of 1006 Old 05-18-2020, 08:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anderegg View Post
I just rendered out a buttload of personally shot HLG clips, ran them through my X800M2 on a USB drive...damned if the stupid thing doesn't work with HLG, just plays them as blown out SDR rec709...ugh, Sony!!!!!!!!! My Sony TV auto switches to HLG when I put the USB into it directly.

Paul

Stupid question on my part. Isn't HLG primarily intended for OTA broadcasts?


I don't know that I would really expect a device without a tuner to support an OTA standard. Not that it couldn't.

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post #975 of 1006 Old 05-18-2020, 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Cheddarhead View Post
Stupid question on my part. Isn't HLG primarily intended for OTA broadcasts?
I don't know that I would really expect a device without a tuner to support an OTA standard. Not that it couldn't.
It was developed for that purpose, but as it appears, there are video cameras (e.g. Sony alpha series, but also others), that can produce out-of-camera HLG, ie without any post-production required.
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post #976 of 1006 Old 05-18-2020, 10:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by priitv8 View Post
It was developed for that purpose, but as it appears, there are video cameras (e.g. Sony alpha series, but also others), that can produce out-of-camera HLG, ie without any post-production required.
Correct, I shoot HLG on my PXW-Z90...JVC and I think Canon also do HLG...HLG is easier to use for shooting HDR because it's a 0-100% video levels gamma and not a 100nit of light hitting the camera = 50% HDR10 PQ type of thing. Sony HLG3 right out of the camera can be converted to HDR10 without any grading and looks sweet.

Paul

Sony X950H SDR and HDR Calibration setting https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-l...l#post59249362

Sony X900F SDR and HDR Calibration settings https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-l...l#post57551552
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post #977 of 1006 Old 05-19-2020, 10:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Anderegg View Post
Sony HLG3 right out of the camera can be converted to HDR10 without any grading and looks sweet.
That is a good hint!
Only thing that confuses me - is HLG3 same as S-Log3 or is it a different (apparently Pro) gamma?
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post #978 of 1006 Old 05-19-2020, 10:31 PM
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Originally Posted by priitv8 View Post
That is a good hint!
Only thing that confuses me - is HLG3 same as S-Log3 or is it a different (apparently Pro) gamma?
Completely different...Slog is the "pro" method to shoot and to themn grade into SDR or HDR, but this is difficult...HLG3 is pretty much "ready to go", no grading necessary.

Paul

Sony X950H SDR and HDR Calibration setting https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-l...l#post59249362

Sony X900F SDR and HDR Calibration settings https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-l...l#post57551552
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post #979 of 1006 Old 05-20-2020, 10:24 PM
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Completely different...Slog is the "pro" method to shoot and to themn grade into SDR or HDR, but this is difficult...HLG3 is pretty much "ready to go", no grading necessary.
Alright, now I see it! For some reason I have completely ignored and overlooked them so far. My bad.
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post #980 of 1006 Old 05-21-2020, 02:50 PM
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There are some good news in the Dolby Vision profile 7 (the dual-stream format off the UHD BD discs) playback story. Turns out, the UBP is actually able to play them back also in Dolby Vision!
What you need to do is to use tsMuxeR 2.6.16 Nightly from videohelp.com to mux the m2ts.
From the changelog of that version, one reads:
Quote:
Originally Posted by videohelp.com
Fixed a an issue so that Dolby Vision EL stream type is now correct
This has one small effect in the file structure, but one big effect on screen (assuming you've set that Dolby Vision switch to ON)!
NB! It is worth repeating, that tsMuxeR only re-muxes streams into container, does not (re)encode anything, so the process is very fast.
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post #981 of 1006 Old 05-23-2020, 09:22 AM
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OFFICIAL Sony UBP-X800M2 Owners Thread (No Price Talk)

1. Does this player do static tone mapping (HDR to SDR) the same way as Panasonic UB820 or 9000, and just as good? I have read it is problematic. I would like to use the Sony with a 4K JVC projector that does not have tone mapping (RS4500)? Is the output in wide color gamut bt2020 (or does it downconvert to rec709)?

2. Is the latest firmware been fixed to support Dolby Vision content auto detection (or do you have to turn it on and off manually )?

Last edited by blake; 05-23-2020 at 09:29 AM.
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post #982 of 1006 Old 05-23-2020, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blake View Post
1. Does this player do static tone mapping (HDR to SDR) the same way as Panasonic UB820 or 9000, and just as good? I have read it is problematic. I would like to use the Sony with a 4K JVC projector that does not have tone mapping (RS4500)? Is the output in wide color gamut bt2020 (or does it downconvert to rec709)?

2. Is the latest firmware been fixed to support Dolby Vision content auto detection (or do you have to turn it on and off manually )?

I have been reading about this cool trick to get Dolby Vision on projectors. A lot of people are saying the best player to use for it is the x800m2. Some are reporting it looks great even when converting regular standard def and hdr blurays too so they don’t have to turn off the dolby.

I’d bet it would look pretty sweet on an rs4500 too! I could only wish to have a projector like that. You’re a lucky man. Good luck!
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post #983 of 1006 Old 05-23-2020, 02:01 PM
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Here is a link to it. It’s pretty long and I’m almost caught up.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/showt...3097934?page=1
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post #984 of 1006 Old 05-23-2020, 02:53 PM
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OFFICIAL Sony UBP-X800M2 Owners Thread (No Price Talk)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyClyde1115 View Post
I have been reading about this cool trick to get Dolby Vision on projectors. A lot of people are saying the best player to use for it is the x800m2. Some are reporting it looks great even when converting regular standard def and hdr blurays too so they don’t have to turn off the dolby.

I’d bet it would look pretty sweet on an rs4500 too! I could only wish to have a projector like that. You’re a lucky man. Good luck!
But to start with more basic static tone mapping, can the X800M2 simply convert HDR to SDR/2020 output ? Just like the Panasonic ub840 hdr optimizer.

The link to your posted for dynamic tone mapping using an HD Fury to spoof the EDID is interesting And I will have to read more. Not sure it will work on the rs4500 though as a quick search of that thread didn’t show anyone doing it with this projector.

Last edited by blake; 05-23-2020 at 03:03 PM.
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post #985 of 1006 Old 05-23-2020, 03:43 PM
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But to start with more basic static tone mapping, can the X800M2 simply convert HDR to SDR/2020 output ? Just like the Panasonic ub840 hdr optimizer.

The link to your posted for dynamic tone mapping using an HD Fury to spoof the EDID is interesting And I will have to read more. Not sure it will work on the rs4500 though as a quick search of that thread didn’t show anyone doing it with this projector.
I have the X800M2 and also the UB9000 (which is the same as the UB820 but with better tone mapping for projectors). The X800M2 does not have the HDR to SDR tone mapping of the UB9000/UB820, so if you are only interested on the SDR2020 feature you will have to go the Panasonic route but I would recommend the UB9000 given its additional support for projectors.

In any case, I also have the HDFURY Vertex 2 and I am using the Dolby Vision LLDV "trick" with the X800M2 for using Dolby Vision on a non Dolby Vision device and I can tell you that in the majority of the cases it is better than the UB9000. This "trick" should work on all devices that can play HDR if you are using the latest HDFURY devices such as the Vertex2, Diva, or Maestro. With older HDFURY devices that would work in some devices but it is not automatic as much as you will have to keep changing settings manually. The "trick" is really simple since the HDFURY device spoofs the X800M2 to do the tone mapping and covert the Dolby Vision on the X800M2 itself. Because the X800M2 have a manual forced flag for Dolby Vision this can be used for all type of videos SDR, HDR, etc.. meaning it will tone map using Dolby Vision all materials. The UB9000 can also do this but ONLY for true Dolby Vision material since it senses the type of HDR automatically and cannot be forced as the X800M2.

I have heard very good feedback on SDR2020 on JVC when you configure the JVC with specific settings and curves but since I do not have a JVC projector cannot report any experience myself.
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post #986 of 1006 Old 05-23-2020, 04:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avdvplus View Post
I have the X800M2 and also the UB9000 (which is the same as the UB820 but with better tone mapping for projectors). The X800M2 does not have the HDR to SDR tone mapping of the UB9000/UB820, so if you are only interested on the SDR2020 feature you will have to go the Panasonic route but I would recommend the UB9000 given its additional support for projectors.

In any case, I also have the HDFURY Vertex 2 and I am using the Dolby Vision LLDV "trick" with the X800M2 for using Dolby Vision on a non Dolby Vision device and I can tell you that in the majority of the cases it is better than the UB9000. This "trick" should work on all devices that can play HDR if you are using the latest HDFURY devices such as the Vertex2, Diva, or Maestro. With older HDFURY devices that would work in some devices but it is not automatic as much as you will have to keep changing settings manually. The "trick" is really simple since the HDFURY device spoofs the X800M2 to do the tone mapping and covert the Dolby Vision on the X800M2 itself. Because the X800M2 have a manual forced flag for Dolby Vision this can be used for all type of videos SDR, HDR, etc.. meaning it will tone map using Dolby Vision all materials. The UB9000 can also do this but ONLY for true Dolby Vision material since it senses the type of HDR automatically and cannot be forced as the X800M2.

I have heard very good feedback on SDR2020 on JVC when you configure the JVC with specific settings and curves but since I do not have a JVC projector cannot report any experience myself.

Thanks for explaining these differences. It would appear the Sony X800M2 would be the better device as it would DTM all content. My question is :

1. Using the HDfury spoof- Isn’t the Sony BluRay player outputting to SDR/rec709? So wouldn’t you lose the wide color gamut of sdr2020 ?

2. I know you don’t have JVC projector, but in general what picture settings must modify in the projector when doing this DTM spoof ?
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post #987 of 1006 Old 05-23-2020, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blake View Post
But to start with more basic static tone mapping, can the X800M2 simply convert HDR to SDR/2020 output ? Just like the Panasonic ub840 hdr optimizer.

The link to your posted for dynamic tone mapping using an HD Fury to spoof the EDID is interesting And I will have to read more. Not sure it will work on the rs4500 though as a quick search of that thread didn’t show anyone doing it with this projector.

It works on any projector or TV that can do HDR.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blake View Post
Thanks for explaining these differences. It would appear the Sony X800M2 would be the better device as it would DTM all content. My question is :

1. Using the HDfury spoof- Isn’t the Sony BluRay player outputting to SDR/rec709? So wouldn’t you lose the wide color gamut of sdr2020 ?

2. I know you don’t have JVC projector, but in general what picture settings must modify in the projector when doing this DTM spoof ?

No you aren’t sending SDR 709. It is regular HDR with wide color.

From what I read with people that have JVC projectors they say to use whatever their normal hdr curve is for about 1,000 nits. Users named Claw and Dominic Chan are great and have JVCs.
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post #988 of 1006 Old 05-23-2020, 04:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blake View Post
Thanks for explaining these differences. It would appear the Sony X800M2 would be the better device as it would DTM all content. My question is :

1. Using the HDfury spoof- Isn’t the Sony BluRay player outputting to SDR/rec709? So wouldn’t you lose the wide color gamut of sdr2020 ?

2. I know you don’t have JVC projector, but in general what picture settings must modify in the projector when doing this DTM spoof ?
In regards to your questions, BillyClyde1115 already responded with the same answers I would provide.

Just a comment on "It would appear the Sony X800M2 would be the better device as it would DTM all content" - beauty is the eye of the beholder... You have one of the best projectors out there. From what I heard JVC do really well with SDR2020. My feedback was based on my configuration. My assumption is that in your JVC configuration you would probably have a better HDR10 experience with the Panasonic UB9000, SDR2020, and JVC appropriate configuration. If you prefer a puristic approach the UB9000 would be a better choice but if you want a more versatile approach then the X800M2 would be better.

In any case, to see Dolby Vision material on your JVC you will need a HDFURY - Vertex2, Diva, or Maestro. For Dolby Vision material this will work for both X800M2 and UB9000. For non-Dolby Vision material you would need the forced X800M2 to have the tone mapping on all materials.

You could do as I did and have both the X800M2 and the UB9000 and use the one that works better depending on what material you will be watching. In my case, if it is true Dolby Vision I use the UB9000, anything else I use the X800M2.
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post #989 of 1006 Old 05-23-2020, 05:24 PM
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In regards to your questions, BillyClyde1115 already responded with the same answers I would provide.

Just a comment on "It would appear the Sony X800M2 would be the better device as it would DTM all content" - beauty is the eye of the beholder... You have one of the best projectors out there. From what I heard JVC do really well with SDR2020. My feedback was based on my configuration. My assumption is that in your JVC configuration you would probably have a better HDR10 experience with the Panasonic UB9000, SDR2020, and JVC appropriate configuration. If you prefer a puristic approach the UB9000 would be a better choice but if you want a more versatile approach then the X800M2 would be better.

In any case, to see Dolby Vision material on your JVC you will need a HDFURY - Vertex2, Diva, or Maestro. For Dolby Vision material this will work for both X800M2 and UB9000. For non-Dolby Vision material you would need the forced X800M2 to have the tone mapping on all materials.

You could do as I did and have both the X800M2 and the UB9000 and use the one that works better depending on what material you will be watching. In my case, if it is true Dolby Vision I use the UB9000, anything else I use the X800M2.

I would think dynamic tone mapping using the DV spoof would ALWAYS look better than any static tone mapping solution (ex UB9000 alone with HDR optimizer) given that it will be doing scene by scene analysis of the content and mapping on the fly. No?
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post #990 of 1006 Old 05-23-2020, 06:32 PM
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I would think dynamic tone mapping using the DV spoof would ALWAYS look better than any static tone mapping solution (ex UB9000 alone with HDR optimizer) given that it will be doing scene by scene analysis of the content and mapping on the fly. No?
Theoretically, yes, the DV/LLDV DTM chip on the X800M2 is good but it has its practical limitations as any technology, so I do not know if it would be better than the JVC, UB9000, SDR2020 with its special configuration and curves. The JVC SDR 2020 combination has be stated as one of the best images out there. Thus, that is why I mentioned about getting both X800M2 and UB9000 with your JVC so you can test and see for yourself. In my case, I have noticed that in some material the DV spuff did a great job and in other materials not much difference.

Also, with your caliber of equipment you could add a Lumagen Radiance Pro, or better yet, the upcoming madVR Envy Pro/Extreme and by all accounts have a better solution than the DV spoof.
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