OFFICIAL Sony UBP-X800M2 Owners Thread (No Price Talk) - Page 34 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #991 of 1068 Old 05-24-2020, 12:15 AM
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Originally Posted by avdvplus View Post
Theoretically, yes, the DV/LLDV DTM chip on the X800M2 is good but it has its practical limitations as any technology, so I do not know if it would be better than the JVC, UB9000, SDR2020 with its special configuration and curves. The JVC SDR 2020 combination has be stated as one of the best images out there. Thus, that is why I mentioned about getting both X800M2 and UB9000 with your JVC so you can test and see for yourself. In my case, I have noticed that in some material the DV spuff did a great job and in other materials not much difference.

Also, with your caliber of equipment you could add a Lumagen Radiance Pro, or better yet, the upcoming madVR Envy Pro/Extreme and by all accounts have a better solution than the DV spoof.

You read my mind (waiting for the Envy to see how it stacks up against the Radiance Pro). But want a reasonable tone map solution in the interim.

Maybe I should stick with static tone map / sdr2020 solution, especially considering the added hassle and expense of HDFury Vertex2 .

Do you think the ub9000 vs UB820 are much different for hdr optimizer ? I think the 9000 allows you to set lower nits (I will be at only 75 nits on rs4500)


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post #992 of 1068 Old 05-24-2020, 03:33 AM
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You could also get the Sony X1100M2 if you want a higher end player. These also do the LLDV trick I believe.

From what I’ve read and now am starting to see with my new setup of this, I think you’ll be stunned at the improvement in image quality. To me it seems to far exceed the old static tone maps and SDR 2020 I’ve used.

Of course if I had the money I’d probably get the envy or lumagen, but even those can’t do Dolby Vision, and I’m also just po’ folk anyway.
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post #993 of 1068 Old 05-24-2020, 05:06 AM
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Originally Posted by BillyClyde1115 View Post
You could also get the Sony X1100M2 if you want a higher end player. These also do the LLDV trick I believe.

From what I’ve read and now am starting to see with my new setup of this, I think you’ll be stunned at the improvement in image quality. To me it seems to far exceed the old static tone maps and SDR 2020 I’ve used.

Of course if I had the money I’d probably get the envy or lumagen, but even those can’t do Dolby Vision, and I’m also just po’ folk anyway.

For some reason X1100M2 is not available in Europe (at least, not from official dealers; third party sellers on Amazon might carry it, but it's never clear whether they can be trusted with such an expensive purchase - the price difference with respect to 800M2 is rather dramatic). At the same time, I read somewhere that for regular UHD discs the picture quality is very similar in the two players. Is that actually correct?

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post #994 of 1068 Old 05-24-2020, 06:46 AM
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Originally Posted by unifexx View Post
For some reason X1100M2 is not available in Europe (at least, not from official dealers; third party sellers on Amazon might carry it, but it's never clear whether they can be trusted with such an expensive purchase - the price difference with respect to 800M2 is rather dramatic). At the same time, I read somewhere that for regular UHD discs the picture quality is very similar in the two players. Is that actually correct?

Sorry I don’t know. I’ve never had an X1100M2, but yes I have read the same thing.
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post #995 of 1068 Old 05-24-2020, 10:29 AM
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You read my mind (waiting for the Envy to see how it stacks up against the Radiance Pro). But want a reasonable tone map solution in the interim.

Maybe I should stick with static tone map / sdr2020 solution, especially considering the added hassle and expense of HDFury Vertex2 .

Do you think the ub9000 vs UB820 are much different for hdr optimizer ? I think the 9000 allows you to set lower nits (I will be at only 75 nits on rs4500)


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The Vertex2 is really easy to setup and all things considered not that expensive. The problem would be that if you go the madVR Envy direction it would create the problem of having too many HDMI devices in a chain. This would not be the case with the Lumagen Radiance Pro since you have more inputs to bypass the AVR.

In regards to the UB9000 vs UB820 the key difference is sound capabilities and the better nits optimizer (lower nits capability) for projectors. So in your case with a projector I would say that that the UB9000 is the better choice. If you were using a TV and did not need the sound benefits than the UB820 would be the same as the UB9000.
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post #996 of 1068 Old 05-24-2020, 11:37 AM
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You could also get the Sony X1100M2 if you want a higher end player. These also do the LLDV trick I believe.

From what I’ve read and now am starting to see with my new setup of this, I think you’ll be stunned at the improvement in image quality. To me it seems to far exceed the old static tone maps and SDR 2020 I’ve used.

Of course if I had the money I’d probably get the envy or lumagen, but even those can’t do Dolby Vision, and I’m also just po’ folk anyway.
I think the current model is X1100ES (I believe there is no X1100M2 yet). The X1100ES is older than the X800M2 but can do the LLDV trick. It seems that the only benefit from the X1100ES vs X800M2 is the sound capabilities and no difference on image capability or quality.

Currently, the LLDV trick is probably the best cost/performance solution for tone mapping (specially if you use the cheaper sony X700 that can also do the LLDV trick). In any case, from what I read the LLDV trick is not comparable to the madVR or Lumagen solutions which is better by all accounts but of course more expensive.

BillyClyde1115, I do not know if you have a JVC projector (I do not) but I read that the combination of the UB9000 with the JVC projector configuration with special curves is as good or better than the LLDV trick (this for folks that like the image as intended by the studios since the LLDV trick does over saturate for some materials). The UB9000 can also use the LLDV trick for true Dolby Vision material, so with a JVC projector, U9000, and the Vertex2 you can have the SDR2020/JVC curves for non-Dolby Vision material and still see true Dolby Vision material with the LLDV trick.

If you want to see true Dolby Vision material on TVs/projectors that do not support Dolby Vision material the LLDV trick and a capable player is the only way to go for now.
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post #997 of 1068 Old 05-24-2020, 02:34 PM
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Has anyone had an issue playing Red Book CDs since the latest firmware update? My player worked flawlessly prior to the update, and still has no issues with DVDs, Blu Rays, or UHDs. However when I play CDs, it skips horribly. Reset factory settings, pulled the plug, but nothing seems to work so I am assuming it was the update. Would greatly appreciate any thoughts. Thanks!
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post #998 of 1068 Old 05-24-2020, 10:54 PM
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Originally Posted by unifexx View Post
For some reason X1100M2 is not available in Europe (at least, not from official dealers; third party sellers on Amazon might carry it, but it's never clear whether they can be trusted with such an expensive purchase - the price difference with respect to 800M2 is rather dramatic). At the same time, I read somewhere that for regular UHD discs the picture quality is very similar in the two players. Is that actually correct?
I could order mine from our local dealer and it is an european (220VAC) model. Apparently I was the only one who ever asked for this.
FWIW - X1100ES can not be much older than X800M2, they are about the same age. Just like X1000ES and X800 are. Both share same motherboard, if I am not mistaken. ES model only has additional analog audio board + connection to front panel display and different power supply.
Check here: https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...&postcount=171
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post #999 of 1068 Old 05-25-2020, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by avdvplus View Post
I think the current model is X1100ES (I believe there is no X1100M2 yet). The X1100ES is older than the X800M2 but can do the LLDV trick. It seems that the only benefit from the X1100ES vs X800M2 is the sound capabilities and no difference on image capability or quality.



Currently, the LLDV trick is probably the best cost/performance solution for tone mapping (specially if you use the cheaper sony X700 that can also do the LLDV trick). In any case, from what I read the LLDV trick is not comparable to the madVR or Lumagen solutions which is better by all accounts but of course more expensive.



BillyClyde1115, I do not know if you have a JVC projector (I do not) but I read that the combination of the UB9000 with the JVC projector configuration with special curves is as good or better than the LLDV trick (this for folks that like the image as intended by the studios since the LLDV trick does over saturate for some materials). The UB9000 can also use the LLDV trick for true Dolby Vision material, so with a JVC projector, U9000, and the Vertex2 you can have the SDR2020/JVC curves for non-Dolby Vision material and still see true Dolby Vision material with the LLDV trick.



If you want to see true Dolby Vision material on TVs/projectors that do not support Dolby Vision material the LLDV trick and a capable player is the only way to go for now.

In my experience using the LLDV trick, even on regular HDR10, produces much better image quality than just using a static curve, Panasonic Optimizer or not. It isn’t even close really.

My comments about the x1100 were more about the build quality of the chassis than pure video quality.
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post #1000 of 1068 Old 05-25-2020, 02:49 PM
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I could order mine from our local dealer and it is an european (220VAC) model. Apparently I was the only one who ever asked for this.
FWIW - X1100ES can not be much older than X800M2, they are about the same age. Just like X1000ES and X800 are. Both share same motherboard, if I am not mistaken. ES model only has additional analog audio board + connection to front panel display and different power supply.
Check here: https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...&postcount=171


The 1100ES also has a RS 232 port for custom installers.
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post #1001 of 1068 Old 05-26-2020, 01:06 AM
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In my experience using the LLDV trick, even on regular HDR10, produces much better image quality than just using a static curve, Panasonic Optimizer or not. It isn’t even close.

On what device ? What about Panasonic SDR2020 output ?


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post #1002 of 1068 Old 05-26-2020, 02:27 AM
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On what device ? What about Panasonic SDR2020 output ?

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Sony x700 and x800m2 which I upgraded to. I had a Panny 820 and tried sdr 2020 on it and the results were nowhere near as good as what I see using LLDV now on sony. It’s the reason I sold the Panny. You need hdfury too though.
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post #1003 of 1068 Old 05-26-2020, 02:41 AM
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What is this LLDV trick you all are speaking of? :-\

Paul

Sony X950H SDR and HDR Calibration setting https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-l...l#post59249362

Sony X900F SDR and HDR Calibration settings https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-l...l#post57551552
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post #1004 of 1068 Old 05-26-2020, 05:37 AM
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What is this LLDV trick you all are speaking of? :-\



Paul

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/465-h...rojectors.html
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post #1005 of 1068 Old 05-26-2020, 10:12 PM
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What is this LLDV trick you all are speaking of? :-\
It is something even HDFury promotes these days.
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post #1006 of 1068 Old 05-26-2020, 10:18 PM
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It is something even HDFury promotes these days.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ittN2L593LY
I'm researching it now that I know about it...the HDFury website seems to be basically lots of quotes from AVforum and AVSforum...#feedbackloop :-P

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Sony X950H SDR and HDR Calibration setting https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-l...l#post59249362

Sony X900F SDR and HDR Calibration settings https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-l...l#post57551552
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post #1007 of 1068 Old 05-28-2020, 11:42 PM
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I've been testing this player together with a Panasonic 820 on an LG C9. From what I can tell, the Sony's default HDR setting is a bit brighter than the Standard setting on the Panasonic. If I change it to Natural on the Panasonic, the picture is more similar to the Sony.

Can anyone else confirm this? I did a simple testing by switching back and forth using the same disc. But no measurements were done.
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post #1008 of 1068 Old 05-29-2020, 12:37 PM
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Can someone tell me how to output DD+ audio from the X800M2 on Netflix? The only audio output the thing will give me is DD 5.1, you know, AC3 low quality. When I play back on my TV, a Sony X950H, I get DD+, and it sounds better, but I am going through the X800 because I can toggle DV off, which is broken on my TV. At a loss here...have to choose between video and audio...

*Amazon Prime plays back as DD+.

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Sony X950H SDR and HDR Calibration setting https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-l...l#post59249362

Sony X900F SDR and HDR Calibration settings https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-l...l#post57551552
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post #1009 of 1068 Old 05-29-2020, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by avdvplus View Post
so if you are only interested on the SDR2020 feature you will have to go the Panasonic route but I would recommend the UB9000 given its additional support for projectors.
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Do you think the ub9000 vs UB820 are much different for hdr optimizer ? I think the 9000 allows you to set lower nits (I will be at only 75 nits on rs4500)
The UB820 (500 nits) and UB9000 (500 nits and 350 nits) settings are only used with the HDR Optimizer when you output HDR.

If you're going with the SDR2020 option the display type is ignored, so there is no difference in the tone mapping between the UB820 and the UB9000.

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JVC Curves; Optimizing HDR;
Creating a basic HDR curve using Arve’s Tool;
Replacing JVC Bare Bulbs

Last edited by Dominic Chan; 05-29-2020 at 02:57 PM.
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post #1010 of 1068 Old 05-30-2020, 01:54 AM
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Has anyone heard anything about a possible next-gen model? I am currently using the previous model, X800, and I am not sure whether to upgrade to X800M2 or wait for the next model next year? The only relevant difference between the X800 and X800M2 appears to be Dolby Vision, but I have very few discs with Dolby Vision and am not sure how many more will I buy till next year ...

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post #1011 of 1068 Old 05-30-2020, 08:52 AM
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Has anyone heard anything about a possible next-gen model? I am currently using the previous model, X800, and I am not sure whether to upgrade to X800M2 or wait for the next model next year? The only relevant difference between the X800 and X800M2 appears to be Dolby Vision, but I have very few discs with Dolby Vision and am not sure how many more will I buy till next year ...
I’m curious if they’ll be a next gen, are DVD players still selling well with all of the streaming going on nowadays?
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post #1012 of 1068 Old 05-30-2020, 09:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Likely be Spring 2021 before you see a "M3" or whatever.

XBR65A9G / XBR65A8F / 55R615
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post #1013 of 1068 Old 05-31-2020, 10:02 PM
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VP9.2 and WEBM container is supported...
Tested today - Opus codec not supported...
It turns out there appears to be no way to output LLDV from 4k/vp9 content. The player cannot handle vp9 muxed into mp4, and youtube doesn't use avc1 for 4k encoding. Oh well, what a shame....
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post #1014 of 1068 Old 05-31-2020, 10:38 PM
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It turns out there appears to be no way to output LLDV from 4k/vp9 content. The player cannot handle vp9 muxed into mp4, and youtube doesn't use avc1 for 4k encoding. Oh well, what a shame....
I use Handbrake to convert those YT VP9.2 HDR clips into HEVC PQ (AVC is not used for HDR anyway).
Granted, this does not pay off for view-once material.
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post #1015 of 1068 Old 05-31-2020, 10:54 PM
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VP9.2 stuff in mkv is not a problem. It's those non-HDR vp9-4k clips that will benefit from the LLDV treatment.
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post #1016 of 1068 Old 06-01-2020, 03:29 AM
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Likely be Spring 2021 before you see a "M3" or whatever.
That was my question exactly - are there any rumors that something like that is in the works?

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post #1017 of 1068 Old 06-02-2020, 04:38 AM
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That was my question exactly - are there any rumors that something like that is in the works?
This article from last January, after the 2020 CES, has some interesting observations about new UHD Blu-ray players.

https://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.ph...&id=1579085840
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post #1018 of 1068 Old 06-04-2020, 07:11 AM
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Gave handbrake a spin on a kabylake, and, oh dear, the 45min hr-sinfonieorchester clip took almost a day and a half to encode in order to match the source bit-rate. I suppose one would not mind doing this sort of thing if he or she is a CAC fan, but let's hope future concerts are released in v92 PQ format.
Now, if only high quality audio of this masterpiece is available...
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post #1019 of 1068 Old 06-05-2020, 02:19 AM
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This article from last January, after the 2020 CES, has some interesting observations about new UHD Blu-ray players.

https://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.ph...&id=1579085840

Yea, I read that. I find the idea that everyone is supposed to move on to streaming completely idiotic. First of all, the quality of streamed content is nowhere near the quality of the UHD discs, I completely don't get those people who keep writing that you can't see the difference between HD and 4K unless you screen is gigantic (I also don't get the idea that you "have to" sit far away from your screen - this was reasonable at the time of CRT tubes, but not anymore). Secondly, the internet connection (and especially its speed) is way less reliable than the electricity supply, so I can watch my discs any time I want and not while the internet is working and/or while I keep paying for streaming subscriptions. I definitely want to have a UHD player and since mine does not support Dolby Vision, I certainly want to upgrade, I'm just not sure if I should just do it now, or I should wait for the next years model. And despite what the people write in this article, I can't believe that there won't be one.

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post #1020 of 1068 Old 06-05-2020, 12:10 PM
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Thumbs down ubp-x800m2 firmwae

I was wondering if anyone has a copy of the previous firmware for Sony ubp-x800m2? I regret downloading the update recently as I ripped my SACD disc's and was playing DSF files natively through my network from my NAS which eliminated the hassle of switching disc's and the only difference I noticed in the new firmware is Sony disabled this function. I am assuming from them not supporting Gracenote anymore as apparently that was the only change in the readme log. It now says no supported files under network music. I have stayed away from Sony products for years because of this sort of practice from them. I purchased this unit for it playback capabilities and they have no right me taking away features that I paid for. Not happy with them. Firmware updates are supposed to upgrade not downgrade a unit and take away features!

I would greatly appreciate it if someone would upload or supply a link to the previous firmware. Canadian version preferred but US version should work!

Thanks
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