Need objective answer:Would a 4K UHD player w/4Kdisc &4k HDMIcable improve 2K screen? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 11 Old 02-17-2020, 07:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Question Need objective answer:Would a 4K UHD player w/4Kdisc &4k HDMIcable improve 2K screen?

I have heard various opinions on this (mostly negative; some positive). I will be moving into a 4K OLED panel this summer, and in addition, possibly a 4K projector, but meanwhile, I purchased an Oppo 203 4K UHD Blu-ray player a while ago, in addition to a (4K) Panasonic 820. I have certified HDMI 4K cables, and did purchase some 4K Blu-ray versions of a few of my favorite movies.
So curious about "bridging" meanwhile, before 4K panel purchase, the academic question is: With the aforementioned equipment and 4K UHD discs, is there a definitive, objective answer as to if this combination will PROVIDE a somewhat superior picture quality compared to a 2K Blu-ray disc on a good 2K panel ? I realize that some process may be "down-rezing" it (as a 2K panel is incapable of showing 4K amount of information), but could there be, for lack of a better explanation, some "maximization" of a 2K picture utilizing some of the aforementioned 4K items?

Thanks for some additional insight on this topic. I am sure that a few folks out there in 'AVSForum Land' have played around with this, and have an objective opinion. Perhaps I am convincing myself into this conclusion, but I tend to see a "scosh" of upgrade/picture quality over 2K Blu-ray discs on my Panasonic plasma screen. Bit rate is certainly showing an "uptick" by my Oppo 203 from 2K disc to same movie with the 4K version. Perhaps the 4K version is "printed" in a superior manner (e.g. color, etc.), irrespective of # of pixels ?? I just do not know what would contribute...
Thanks again for your input !
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post #2 of 11 Old 02-19-2020, 05:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Tick...tick-tick. Anyone ?
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post #3 of 11 Old 02-19-2020, 07:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WOLVERNOLE View Post
Tick...tick-tick. Anyone ?
Dude it's dead around here.

To answer your question, I figure it would maximize the color and resolution to what your Panasonic can put out. The television will take the tools it is given and probably max its talents. So in other words if you are getting a better scan from the 4k, it probably looks a bit better than the blu-ray version. I know that when I was feeding my F8500 a 4k image from my phone it looked incredible. I was feeding it those LG 4K demos. I know that those same or like demos from YouTube in 1080p look nothing like the 4k ones. They actually look ordinary. Not bad, but just, well, 1080p.

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post #4 of 11 Old 02-19-2020, 07:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WOLVERNOLE View Post
I have heard various opinions on this (mostly negative; some positive). I will be moving into a 4K OLED panel this summer, and in addition, possibly a 4K projector, but meanwhile, I purchased an Oppo 203 4K UHD Blu-ray player a while ago, in addition to a (4K) Panasonic 820. I have certified HDMI 4K cables, and did purchase some 4K Blu-ray versions of a few of my favorite movies.
So curious about "bridging" meanwhile, before 4K panel purchase, the academic question is: With the aforementioned equipment and 4K UHD discs, is there a definitive, objective answer as to if this combination will PROVIDE a somewhat superior picture quality compared to a 2K Blu-ray disc on a good 2K panel ? I realize that some process may be "down-rezing" it (as a 2K panel is incapable of showing 4K amount of information), but could there be, for lack of a better explanation, some "maximization" of a 2K picture utilizing some of the aforementioned 4K items?

Thanks for some additional insight on this topic. I am sure that a few folks out there in 'AVSForum Land' have played around with this, and have an objective opinion. Perhaps I am convincing myself into this conclusion, but I tend to see a "scosh" of upgrade/picture quality over 2K Blu-ray discs on my Panasonic plasma screen. Bit rate is certainly showing an "uptick" by my Oppo 203 from 2K disc to same movie with the 4K version. Perhaps the 4K version is "printed" in a superior manner (e.g. color, etc.), irrespective of # of pixels ?? I just do not know what would contribute...
Thanks again for your input !
The 4K UHD HDR BD should provide superior resolution and colour gamut but...many '4k' BDs are made from 2K masters and upsampled to 4K. Theoretically these will have superior colour data and upsampling a 2K master using a computational intensive algorithm should provide better quality than real time upsampling of a 1080p BD by a 4K BD player but sometimes the differences are minimal. 4K BDs made from 4K masters should show a considerable improvement in resolution.

Viewing distance is also a critical factor:

http://s3.carltonbale.com/resolution_chart.html

as many people sit too far from the screen to resolve the additional detail of a true 4k image.
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post #5 of 11 Old 02-19-2020, 08:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DunMunro View Post
The 4K UHD HDR BD should provide superior resolution and colour gamut but...many '4k' BDs are made from 2K masters and upsampled to 4K. Theoretically these will have superior colour data and upsampling a 2K master using a computational intensive algorithm should provide better quality than real time upsampling of a 1080p BD by a 4K BD player but sometimes the differences are minimal. 4K BDs made from 4K masters should show a considerable improvement in resolution.

Viewing distance is also a critical factor:

http://s3.carltonbale.com/resolution_chart.html

as many people sit too far from the screen to resolve the additional detail of a true 4k image.
The OP was asking about playing on an HD (not UHD) capable display.

Does that affect your advice?
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post #6 of 11 Old 02-20-2020, 04:51 AM
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IMO, there will be NO difference watching a 1080p or a 4k disc (downscaled to 1080p) on a 1080p display. Any difference you think you see is either due to placebo effect or due to a remastering of the disc (i.e., the 1080p disc was mastered a few years ago and the new disc was recently remastered).

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post #7 of 11 Old 02-20-2020, 09:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobknavs View Post
The OP was asking about playing on an HD (not UHD) capable display.

Does that affect your advice?
The OP was a little unclear but, some projector reviews have stated that 1080p projectors that can accept and downscale 4K signals, will show a slight increase in sharpness, but on the whole it's unlikely to noticeably differ from 1080p content.
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post #8 of 11 Old 02-20-2020, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DunMunro View Post
The OP was a little unclear but, some projector reviews have stated that 1080p projectors that can accept and downscale 4K signals, will show a slight increase in sharpness, but on the whole it's unlikely to noticeably differ from 1080p content.
I have also read some posts that some players (like a Panasonic DP-UB820) being able to convert an HDR signal into a wide color gamut one for non-HDR displays. That seemed to be mostly relevant to non-HDR projectors.

I use an LG OLED TV, so I haven't tried to understand that.
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post #9 of 11 Old 02-21-2020, 10:14 AM
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I had a Sony model 800 4K player. Connected with ALL BlueJeansCable.com series FE Premium certified HDMI cables to at the time Mitz DLP model 73740 1080P TV. I enjoyed this setup for the past couple of years. Played many 4K UHD HDR disc that also contained Atmos audio as well.

The Mitz DLP TV having a maximum resolution of 1080P. Isn’t going to magically achieve any higher resolution than it’s capable off. But IMHO, with a 4K UHD player connected by a Premium certified HDMI cable. Playing a 4K UHD HDR media disc. This will provide a VERY high quality 1080P video signal to the TV. From my experience you will notice the picture quality on some newer bluray disc.

Technology seems to repeat this cycle with every new increase in resolution. When 1080P TV’s 1st became available at a price most consumer could afford. VERY high quality 1080P disc availability was not like what is available today. The technology, available scanning resolution of films and cost of scanning films at that time has greatly increased with the availability of films today that are scanned in 4K and in some cases 6K. Then down converted to a newer 1080P disc.

The same cycle was repeated when at the time 4K TV’s reached a price level available to most consumers , then later with 4K HDR TV’s. It seems to take longer for the technology and the costs for films to be able to be scanned at a higher resolution than the price of TV’s available at a price point where most consumers would be willing to purchase.

The same cycle for now available 8K TV’s. I haven’t seen any 8K disc availability yet. Or even a 8K player.

IMHO, I believe you will benefit from the newer technology. For ME, I have been purchasing 4K UHD HDR and Dolby Vision disc for a couple years now. I patiently wait for the disc to reach a price point I am comfortable with. I now have over 100 4K disc in my collection. I realized that one day I would purchase a new 4K UHD HDR and Dolby Vision TV. That day has come. I have been enjoying the newer technology. The Sony 85X850G TV and Sony 800M2 player I bought a month ago. The picture quality has been jaw dropping and just stunning. So much so that I plan to rewatch all the 4K disc. I have already enjoyed with my previous Mitz 1080P TV. With the added bonus of 7.2.4 Atmos audio. It is truly an experience for both the eyes and ears.

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post #10 of 11 Old 02-21-2020, 11:33 AM
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As was mentioned, you may see an improvement because the UHD disk contains a newer, better master but otherwise you should expect no improvement. But there might be a reason you would want to acquire a UHD player and buy UHD disks. If you think you will be upgrading your display any time in the next few years, you would have a player and disks that would give you real picture quality improvements on that new display.

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post #11 of 11 Old 02-21-2020, 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by JazzGuyy View Post
As was mentioned, you may see an improvement because the UHD disk contains a newer, better master but otherwise you should expect no improvement. But there might be a reason you would want to acquire a UHD player and buy UHD disks. If you think you will be upgrading your display any time in the next few years, you would have a player and disks that would give you real picture quality improvements on that new display.
Reminds me of a musician I knew slightly back in the early 1980s. He had the beginnings of a CD audio collection. (Remember CDs?)

He didn't have a player yet. ($600 was a fairly normal price for a CD player in 1984, if memory servers. That'd scale to nearly $1500 today.) I though that he was nuts. In retrospect, I'd just say slightly nuts. (He may not have needed to buy the CDs to avoid them becoming unavalibale later.)
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