One-and-Only PS3 as Blu-Ray Player Thread - Page 565 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #16921 of 32116 Old 04-15-2008, 11:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sithapprentice View Post

I have a Denon Avr -5805 receiver (first version, not MKII), so this receiver will accept 5.1 LPCM input via HDMI, but I have the receiver outputting it as 9.1 to my speakers.

I am using a PS3 as a Blu-Ray player and it is outputting as DTS-MA as 5.1 and TRUE HD as 5.1 (according to PS3 on screen display) as well.

So here is the questions

Why bother wasting the money on a new receiver or spending $1000 for the AVR-5805 upgrade? (upgrade allows receiver to accept 7.1 LPCM), if my receiver is taking the 5.1 and changing it to 9.1 anyways?

As it is right now the setup I have sounds awsome, will changing my receiver to a 7.1 input and continuing to output it to 9.1 make that big of a difference?

Well, since I'm a PCM fan. And not one of those bitstream advocates. You're fine to stay with your current model.

But, I have a question. How do you take 5.1 discrete channels (from the blu-ray disc master audio) and convert it to 9.1 channels? Signal processing?

Although 7.1 would be nice (6.1 is pointless to me, IMO). But 9.1 seems like overkill.

If your 9.1 setting is essentially 5.1 "spread out (signal processing)" among 9.1 speakers. Then, go for it!
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post #16922 of 32116 Old 04-16-2008, 12:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Digital_View View Post

Well, since I'm a PCM fan. And not one of those bitstream advocates. You're fine to stay with your current model.

But, I have a question. How do you take 5.1 discrete channels (from the blu-ray disc master audio) and convert it to 9.1 channels? Signal processing?

Although 7.1 would be nice (6.1 is pointless to me, IMO). But 9.1 seems like overkill.

If your 9.1 setting is essentially 5.1 "spread out (signal processing)" among 9.1 speakers. Then, go for it!


The AVR 5805 can output 10 channels at 170-watts each. So I have
1 x Center
1 x Front Left
1x Front Right
2x Surround Left (Surrounds A+B turned on)
2x Surround Right (Surrounds A+B turned on)
1x Rear Left
1x Rear Right
1x Sub

I have a long theater room, so I am using 2x left and 2 x right surrounds, plus the 2 rears.

In the receiver setup options, I turn on both Surround A+B and I select to output as 9.1 in the options menu. It really sounds great. The receiver is splitting up the signals to 9.1.

Dont get me wrong this is a great receiver, but I am not sure if I Have Denon upgrade it to MKII to accept 7.1 LPCM input (For $1000), if I will notice a big difference or a difference at all.
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post #16923 of 32116 Old 04-16-2008, 12:00 AM
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I have a quick PS3 config/operation question for the experts here.

Equipment:
-PS3
-Onkyo 875
-HDMI
-5.1

PS3:
Under Settings > Sound Settings > Audio Output Settings > HDMI

(in order to correctly play 7.1 disks on a 5.1 setup...)
Do I select Automatic? Or Manual and uncheck all Linear PCM 7.1 Ch. options?

(if I select Manual...)
What will happen to the two Surround Back channels if listening to a 7.1 DTS-HD MA or TrueHD track? Or a 7.1 Uncompressed PCM track? (ie. Does the PS3 throw away the extra Surround Back channels or mix them into the two remaining Surround channels?)

This may not be the right place for it, but along the same lines...

Onkyo 875:
Under 2.Speaker Setup > 2.Speaker Config

I've set SurrBack to None

(if I select Automatic on PS3...)
What will the Onkyo do with the two Surround Back channels if receiving a 7.1 track from the PS3? (ie. Does the Onkyo throw away the extra Surround Back channels or mix them into the remaining two Surround channels?)
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post #16924 of 32116 Old 04-16-2008, 01:03 AM
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podaman,

Automatic will attempt to sense the HDMI audio capabilities of your receiver. If you do see 7.1 listed, I'd use manual and remove them. Since, in theory, it should help the decoders. (See next.)

For TrueHD & DTS-HD MA, a 7.1/6.1 encode also has the ability to output formal 5.1 and Stereo mixes. If your PS3 knows you have a 5.1 environment, it should decode a true 5.1 mix as intended by the mixer. (This assumes the PS3 is doing it's job correctly.) This is one nice advantage Lossless has over PCM.

For 7.1 PCM, you'll get whatever Sony decided to do to downmix to 5.1 or stereo. It's likely they mix it in somehow, but the true process is not documented. (There is no industry standard.)

For your Onkyo question, if you send decoded 7.1 PCM content to it: You'll experience whatever Onkyo designed for downmix to 5.1. It's also likely mixed in, like my previous PS3 downmix comment. It might be documented in your manual, if you are lucky.
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post #16925 of 32116 Old 04-16-2008, 01:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sithapprentice View Post

I have a Denon Avr -5805 receiver (first version, not MKII), so this receiver will accept 5.1 LPCM input via HDMI, but I have the receiver outputting it as 9.1 to my speakers.

I am using a PS3 as a Blu-Ray player and it is outputting as DTS-MA as 5.1 and TRUE HD as 5.1 (according to PS3 on screen display) as well.

So here is the questions

Why bother wasting the money on a new receiver or spending $1000 for the AVR-5805 upgrade? (upgrade allows receiver to accept 7.1 LPCM), if my receiver is taking the 5.1 and changing it to 9.1 anyways?

As it is right now the setup I have sounds awsome, will changing my receiver to a 7.1 input and continuing to output it to 9.1 make that big of a difference?

Why bother? Well, when a soundtrack is mixed to 7.1, a mixing engineer decides what goes into each channel in order to achieve a desired result. If you reduce that soundtrack to 5.1 you lose info. When the receiver expands it to 9.1 a processing chip makes guesses as to what should go into the added channels based on a fixed algorithm and the odds are that it won't be the same as the engineer's decision so you hear something different to intended.

I added the 6th channel to my 5.1 system a year ago in order to hear DTS ES discrete 6.1 tracks as they were intended to be heard. Did it make a difference to listening to them in 5.1? Yes, but it was quite a small difference. Still, results listening to native 6.1 soundtracks in 6.1 sound a little more convincing to me than listening to 5.1 expanded to 6.1 and also better than listening to 6.1 in 5.1. Was the 6th speaker a cost effective expenditure given the size of the gain? Probably not but it is nice having the extra channel.

I think you're in a similar area. You're currently losing something when 7.1 tracks are reduced to 5.1. Upgrading the receiver gets that something back for you but it is expensive and it's going to be a small and usually subtle difference in results at the end of the day. Only you can decide whether or not it's worth it but we're in this hobby for the pleasure and we occasionally indulge ourselves. It's worth considering if the cost of the upgrade fits in your budget but it's not worth breaking the budget for it and it probably isn't going to be cost effective. In other words, it will be a guilty pleasure but guilty pleasures can be quite enjoyable and we all indulge in them every now and then. My 6th channel is a guilty pleasure but it's part of the fun.
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post #16926 of 32116 Old 04-16-2008, 02:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Scaro View Post

I have the 60g PS3 with an Integrea DTR-8.8 and I find myself lost on the proper settings. I have my PS3 hooked up to my 8.8 with an HDMI 1.3 cable.
So is there a list of codec's that tell you whether to have the PS3 on "PCM or Bitstream"?

Dolby Digital 5.1: PCM or Bitstream
Dolby Digital 5.1 EX: Bitstream
Dolby Digital Plus/TrueHD: PCM
DTS 5.1: PCM or Bitstream
DTS-ES Matrix/Discrete: Bitstream
DTS-HD High Resolution/Master Audio: PCM

You will always get sound no matter what you have your PS3 set to; however, you won't get the full experience if you don't have the correct one selected (eg using bitstream for DTS-HD will only get you the 1.5 Mbps DTS core, using PCM for DTS-ES will only get you 5.1 sound)
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post #16927 of 32116 Old 04-16-2008, 03:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MSmith83 View Post

I agree. Also, timing errors from PCM transmission over HDMI should be the least of anyone's worries in terms of achieving great audio fidelity. For instance, anyone who worries about a small increase in jitter, yet listens to audio in a room with poor acoustics, needs to take their priorities elsewhere. It's weird how some people have issues with PCM transmission over HDMI with HDM, but PCM transmission over HDMI for DVD-Audio is perfectly fine for them.

Bottom line is to just enjoy the lossless audio in any way you can get it, and expect your gear and room to be the true limiting factor in audio reproduction.

Bingo...great post. Honestly, these people would be far better off treating their rooms or upgrading speakers than even bothering with lossless.

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post #16928 of 32116 Old 04-16-2008, 05:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sithapprentice View Post

The AVR 5805 can output 10 channels at 170-watts each. So I have
1 x Center
1 x Front Left
1x Front Right
2x Surround Left (Surrounds A+B turned on)
2x Surround Right (Surrounds A+B turned on)
1x Rear Left
1x Rear Right
1x Sub

I have a long theater room, so I am using 2x left and 2 x right surrounds, plus the 2 rears.

In the receiver setup options, I turn on both Surround A+B and I select to output as 9.1 in the options menu. It really sounds great. The receiver is splitting up the signals to 9.1.

Dont get me wrong this is a great receiver, but I am not sure if I Have Denon upgrade it to MKII to accept 7.1 LPCM input (For $1000), if I will notice a big difference or a difference at all.


Take that $1000 and spend it on an additional sub. I think that'll give you the best bang for the buck.
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post #16929 of 32116 Old 04-16-2008, 06:02 AM
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Hello all,
I just purchased a PS3, and have a question regarding upscaling resolution. The player came with a demo Blueray disc. I played the disc via my Panny 58" 1080P 700u. The resolution on my Panny said 720P. Can I go into the settings menu and turn off all resolutions except 1080P, so I can force all incomming video scources to upscale to 1080P?
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post #16930 of 32116 Old 04-16-2008, 06:13 AM
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In theory yes. That should force the PS3 to output in 1080P - I have no idea if it will upscale everything though.

Personal comment: If the source material is in 720P, why upscale?

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post #16931 of 32116 Old 04-16-2008, 06:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fangrim View Post

In theory yes. That should force the PS3 to output in 1080P - I have no idea if it will upscale everything though.

Personal comment: If the source material is in 720P, why upscale?

720P sources on the Panny do not look as good as 1080i or 1080p. Can you turn off 720P, or does the player pick what ever resolution it is fed. I noticed on the BR demo disc the picture was not as sharp, and checked the res on the Panny and sure enough it was 720p.
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post #16932 of 32116 Old 04-16-2008, 06:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elbon View Post

Dolby Digital 5.1: PCM or Bitstream
Dolby Digital 5.1 EX: Bitstream
Dolby Digital Plus/TrueHD: PCM
DTS 5.1: PCM or Bitstream
DTS-ES Matrix/Discrete: Bitstream
DTS-HD High Resolution/Master Audio: PCM

You will always get sound no matter what you have your PS3 set to; however, you won't get the full experience if you don't have the correct one selected (eg using bitstream for DTS-HD will only get you the 1.5 Mbps DTS core, using PCM for DTS-ES will only get you 5.1 sound)



No where in my audio set up options do I see DTS-MA or TRUE HD....

Can I get a screen shot of someones?

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post #16933 of 32116 Old 04-16-2008, 06:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bgillyjcu View Post

No where in my audio set up options do I see DTS-MA or TRUE HD....

Can I get a screen shot of someones?

There is no checkbox. Just the PCM checkboxes, since the PS3 cannot output MTS MA, only PCM. Make sure all applicable PCM boxes are checked and then just select the DTS MA track from the disc menu. You can verify by hitting the select button on the PS3 controller.
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post #16934 of 32116 Old 04-16-2008, 06:53 AM
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I see like a dozen PCM check boxes....how do know which ones I should choose?

There are a ton with different freq at the end.

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post #16935 of 32116 Old 04-16-2008, 07:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Aiken View Post

Well, when a soundtrack is mixed to 7.1, a mixing engineer decides what goes into each channel in order to achieve a desired result. If you reduce that soundtrack to 5.1 you lose info. When the receiver expands it to 9.1 a processing chip makes guesses as to what should go into the added channels based on a fixed algorithm and the odds are that it won't be the same as the engineer's decision so you hear something different to intended.

Thanks. That's what I was wondering (it's a predictive algorithm not a real discrete channel).

And you're right. The additional channel is more about law of diminishing returns rather than substantial improvement (cost vs difference). But since A/V is our hobby. I'd think that spending an extra $1000 is worth it rather than getting a whole new receiver.

If in fact the Denon upgrade does what is says it does.
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post #16936 of 32116 Old 04-16-2008, 07:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bgillyjcu View Post

I see like a dozen PCM check boxes....how do know which ones I should choose?

There are a ton with different freq at the end.

It depends on what your receiver can accept. What do you have?
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post #16937 of 32116 Old 04-16-2008, 07:57 AM
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I have the same question on what boxes to check, this would be huge to know which ones to finally check.

I have an Integra 9.8 processor running a 7.1 system
Jeff
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post #16938 of 32116 Old 04-16-2008, 08:10 AM
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I have to admit I never wanted to see a PS3 in my theater set up. I was wrong. After doing some good A/B comparisons and most recently having a Denon 3800, 2500, Pioneer 95FD and Panny BD30 in my set up I can now say they are all pretty much even at 1080p/24 (23.98). The PS3 even surpasses them in some areas. My Sony VW200 PJ can accept 10 bit color and since the PS3 does 10 bit color I can see an improvement in color. And of course I don't have to mention the way faster load times either. Last night we watched Juno and the color and overall pic Q was astounding. I am used to having a few minutes to get popcorn and drinks ready so I was under the gun when the PS3 loaded the movie so fast. I have been experimenting with a lot of my Blu ray collection and so far not any of them has had a single playback issue. That is very rare these days with all the HD players on the market. I also have to say I don't know what the fuss is about over the remotes. I purchased both of them and used the nyko to teach my Sony Navitus and Universal MX3000 the commands. I will use the PS3 Bluetooth remote sometimes as well. Another complaint from others is that the PS3 is loud. I did get the 40GB version but I can honestly say it is very quiet. Maybe they got theirs from launch. I can confidently say that I saved the best for last. The PS3 beats the rest in overall performance. And to think I got it for 299! I am also pleased with the 2.30 update and hope they keep more bonus updates coming. Being able to update online or thru a USB flashcard (like my crystalio II) is sweet. I will now go on Blu ray hiatus and just enjoy the performance the PS3 gives me. I did not plan to get any games since I already own the 360 Elite but I will probably pick up Gran Turismo Prologue and MGS4 when it hits... Why not? Here are a few pics:
LL
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LL

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post #16939 of 32116 Old 04-16-2008, 08:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bplewis24 View Post

I can only tell you what I know to be true from first-hand experience. I don't use PCM, everything is set to bitstream and I have always had audio (over optical) when using FF at 1.5x.

Brandon

I have one of my PS3s hooked up via optical. It does indeed output audio over optical with bitstream selected .
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post #16940 of 32116 Old 04-16-2008, 08:41 AM
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joerod, very interesting review.
I'm pretty concerned about the PS3 to my 768pj.
Will the PS3 be optimal here too, compared to other current BD players?
It will be interesting to see if the new SA's can compete w/ the PS3 in picture and loadtimes.
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post #16941 of 32116 Old 04-16-2008, 08:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pengilly View Post

I have the same question on what boxes to check, this would be huge to know which ones to finally check.

I have an Integra 9.8 processor running a 7.1 system
Jeff

With a good receiver like that, you should be compatible with ALL 7.1 options.
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post #16942 of 32116 Old 04-16-2008, 09:16 AM
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So should I check them all? and should I be sending it Bitstream or PCM?
You Da Man
Thank you
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post #16943 of 32116 Old 04-16-2008, 09:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

I have to admit I never wanted to see a PS3 in my theater set up. I was wrong. After doing some good A/B comparisons and most recently having a Denon 3800, 2500, Pioneer 95FD and Panny BD30 in my set up I can now say they are all pretty much even at 1080p/24 (23.98). The PS3 even surpasses them in some areas. My Sony VW200 PJ can accept 10 bit color and since the PS3 does 10 bit color I can see an improvement in color. And of course I don't have to mention the way faster load times either.

Excellent to hear that from a quality HT setup like yours.

FWIW, I have a launch 60GB PS3 (currently with 160GB HDD but thinking of going to 320) and I can't hear it, either.

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post #16944 of 32116 Old 04-16-2008, 09:26 AM
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@joerod : The PS3 will be much easier on you for firmware updates.

Thanks again for sharing your HT experiences.

Reasons for not including a PS3 as at least one of anyone's BD players are hard to find.

You might consider adding Uncharted to your short list of games - a pretty impressive experience.

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post #16945 of 32116 Old 04-16-2008, 09:52 AM
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For those of you that frequent this thread and have discussed issues concerning the PS3 w/firmware 2.30 decoding of certain BDs that are using DTS HD-MA with 7.1 channels, we now have a definitive answer as to what the situation is. I have posted an update under Post #1 on the PS3 Firmware Version 2.3x - Master Thread that summarizes the situation. Also included is a link to a later post in that thread from a person at DTS that describes the specific cause of the issue with the PS3.

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post #16946 of 32116 Old 04-16-2008, 10:01 AM
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Hi all,

I recently purchased a PS3 and hooked it up to my Sony SXRD (KDS-2000 I think?) 1080p TV via HDMI.

All's well at 1080p. I popped in a 1080i concert (Deep Purple Live at Montreux 2006) and was surprised that the TV did not flip to 1080i to play it. 480i and 720p content certainly does trigger a change.

I don't believe 2.30 enabled 1080i deinterlacing. I'm seeing ghosting, though forcing the PS3 to 1080i elicites the same motion blur. Is this concert improperly flagged or am i not understanding how the PS3 handles interlaced 1080i?
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post #16947 of 32116 Old 04-16-2008, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Jones View Post

For those of you that frequent this thread and have discussed issues concerning the PS3 w/firmware 2.30 decoding of certain BDs that are using DTS HD-MA with 7.1 channels, we now have a definitive answer as to what the situation is. I have posted an update under Post #1 on the PS3 Firmware Version 2.3x - Master Thread that summarizes the situation. Also included is a link to a later post in that thread from a person at DTS that describes the specific cause of the issue with the PS3.

Thanks for the update Ron. I unsubscribed from that thread because it became unreadable for me from all the complaining going on.

Brandon
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post #16948 of 32116 Old 04-16-2008, 10:06 AM
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where in all of that does it explain which boxes to check? I know Now I should use LPCM right? Now just got to figure out this box checking challange, then which program on the Integra. I just want to watch a movie and know the thing is set up right.
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post #16949 of 32116 Old 04-16-2008, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by pengilly View Post

So should I check them all? and should I be sending it Bitstream or PCM?
You Da Man
Thank you
Jeff



Check them all, and use PCM. This will allow the PS3 to decode DTS MA and sent it out over PCM.
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post #16950 of 32116 Old 04-16-2008, 11:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

I have to admit I never wanted to see a PS3 in my theater set up. I was wrong. After doing some good A/B comparisons and most recently having a Denon 3800, 2500, Pioneer 95FD and Panny BD30 in my set up I can now say they are all pretty much even at 1080p/24 (23.98). The PS3 even surpasses them in some areas. My Sony VW200 PJ can accept 10 bit color and since the PS3 does 10 bit color I can see an improvement in color. And of course I don't have to mention the way faster load times either. Last night we watched Juno and the color and overall pic Q was astounding. I am used to having a few minutes to get popcorn and drinks ready so I was under the gun when the PS3 loaded the movie so fast. I have been experimenting with a lot of my Blu ray collection and so far not any of them has had a single playback issue. That is very rare these days with all the HD players on the market. I also have to say I don't know what the fuss is about over the remotes. I purchased both of them and used the nyko to teach my Sony Navitus and Universal MX3000 the commands. I will use the PS3 Bluetooth remote sometimes as well. Another complaint from others is that the PS3 is loud. I did get the 40GB version but I can honestly say it is very quiet. Maybe they got theirs from launch. I can confidently say that I saved the best for last. The PS3 beats the rest in overall performance. And to think I got it for 299! I am also pleased with the 2.30 update and hope they keep more bonus updates coming. Being able to update online or thru a USB flashcard (like my crystalio II) is sweet. I will now go on Blu ray hiatus and just enjoy the performance the PS3 gives me. I did not plan to get any games since I already own the 360 Elite but I will probably pick up Gran Turismo Prologue and MGS4 when it hits... Why not? Here are a few pics:

Joerod-I need to get a blue ray player and presently I have no gaming device. Would you strongly recommend that I kill two birds by getting the PS3-your that happy with the blue ray capability vs. getting a separate blue ray component? Where can I get PS3 for $299? Thanks for your input!
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