Denon's DVD-2500BTCI Blu-Ray Player OWNERS Thread - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 2531 Old 08-02-2007, 08:04 AM
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I'm looking to pair a Blu-ray player this fall to my Onkyo TX-SR875 HDMI 1.3 receiver. This could be the one for me. I'm not going to buy a player until I can get the best audio available on the disks. I don't care if it is decoded internally or thru my receiver. If this player can't handle the advanced authored disks properly, I'll wait for an internally decoded player. If it can do that, and the street price is reasonable, I'm interested for sure.
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post #32 of 2531 Old 08-02-2007, 08:12 AM
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I think the 2500 will process video and audio data digitally. At the still steep price of $1.200 it will most certainly have high quality video processors on board (maybe the same as the 3800) and will also process and upconvert DVD video data in high quality.

in CD Players a "transporter" is a player which does no digital to analog conversion.

I suspect that the 2500 will lack any analog outputs (both video and audio) and the price difference to the 3800 model will be due to the cost savings out of that. Most probably we will only see one or two HDMI outputs and a DenonLink output.

For me such a player would be fine.
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post #33 of 2531 Old 08-02-2007, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SirJohnFalstaff View Post

So, if I have a receiver such as Denon's AVR-3808CI that'll handle all the audio decoding and upconverting of standard DVD's that the DVD-2500BTCI doesn't seem to do, will 1080p signals sent from the Blu-ray disks be processed at all? I just realized that if I set the video processor of the receiver to upconvert to the native resolution of my display, it may do it for both standard DVD's (which I want it to do) as well as Blu-ray disks (which I don't want it to touch, just pass). Therefore in order to keep the receiver from doing anything but pass 1080p signals, I'll either have to change the output on the receiver each time I put in a DVD or Blu-ray disk, or I'll want to use a separate DVD player instead of the DVD-2500BTCI for watching standard DVD's.

Any speculations?

Most HD / BD players are still upconverting DVD players, and I highly doubt that this Denon is only going to only output 480i for standard DVD. It will more than likely give you the option to set the rez (up to 1080P) for SD DVD and still pass the naitive rez of the BD disc (1080P). If the player allows for 480i output, you would set it to that rez so that your AVR does the scaling and deinterlacing for SD DVD. When you play a BD, it would still output 1080P and since your AVR can't uprez that any further, it would simply pass through. No processing is needed or even possible on a 1080P signal.

However, there is a rumor that the Denon 2500 will have the Realta video processor in it. In that case, since it is considered a better video processor than the one in the 3808, you would want it to upscale the SD DVDs rather than your AVR.
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post #34 of 2531 Old 08-02-2007, 11:07 AM
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Thanks for the info. I figured that was the case, I just was having a hard time sorting out the details.

If the 2500 indeed has the Realta, then myself and a lot of people will be buying one. We probably won't know until the trade shows later this month...

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post #35 of 2531 Old 08-08-2007, 08:22 AM
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I'm waffling between the 3800 and the 2500 based solely on one point. I'll be pairing the player with Denon's AVR-3808CI and really want the best standard DVD upconverting possible. If the 2500 doesn't have a scaler, which I don't think it will being a transport, that'll leave me depending on the 3808's Faroudja to do the scaling. Does anyone think it's worth paying $800 more for the 3800 and the Realta, or is the Faroudja all that bad?

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post #36 of 2531 Old 08-08-2007, 09:07 AM
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Being a transport only, the 2500 most likely won't do any upconversion or scaling. A SD DVD will be output "as is" at 480I . The communication between the 2500 and the receiver is done trhough HDMI and ALL the processing will be handle by the receiver. This can be a good combination with the Onkyo 875/905 due to their upscaling capability (Reon chip). The upcoming Denon flagship receiver with the Realta chip can do miracles with this baby , but a very high price.

I also believe that the 2500 will be on the cross-hair of people using external video processors since it can feed a "pure" signal.

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post #37 of 2531 Old 08-08-2007, 09:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SirJohnFalstaff View Post

I'm waffling between the 3800 and the 2500 based solely on one point. I'll be pairing the player with Denon's AVR-3808CI and really want the best standard DVD upconverting possible. If the 2500 doesn't have a scaler, which I don't think it will being a transport, that'll leave me depending on the 3808's Faroudja to do the scaling. Does anyone think it's worth paying $800 more for the 3800 and the Realta, or is the Faroudja all that bad?

Could you send the 3808 back and spend another $800 on your reciever (4308)? This would allow you to get the 2500? I am just thinking out loud.

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post #38 of 2531 Old 08-08-2007, 09:55 AM
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I don't currently own the 3808, but I was under the impression that the 4308 used the same Faroudjachip as the 3808? Isn't it just the monster 5308 that uses the Realta?

Also, slimoli, the Onlyo's are definitely out of consideration for me because of their larger size, 4x3 stretch problem, and the fact that there's no Onkyo Canada for warrenty issues. I have a extensive DVD library and want to buy something that will make them look as good as possible. Buy popular consensus that seems to involve something with either a Reon or Realta chip in it.

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post #39 of 2531 Old 08-08-2007, 10:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SirJohnFalstaff View Post

I don't currently own the 3808, but I was under the impression that the 4308 used the same Faroudjachip as the 3808? Isn't it just the monster 5308 that uses the Realta?

Also, slimoli, the Onlyo's are definitely out of consideration for me because of their larger size, 4x3 stretch problem, and the fact that there's no Onkyo Canada for warrenty issues. I have a extensive DVD library and want to buy something that will make them look as good as possible. Buy popular consensus that seems to involve something with either a Reon or Realta chip in it.

Yes, you are right. They both use this chip. There is no way I would spend the money for the big brother to the 2500. I am sure both amp would do a fine job.

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post #40 of 2531 Old 08-08-2007, 10:22 AM
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The way I've been looking at is this: The 2500 is supposed to be priced $1199.00 and the 3800 is $1999.00. If I buy the 2500, I'm already paying a premium. But now I'd want a great upconverting DVD player that could match capabilities of the Realta chip. Can that be done for $800.00 or would it just be best to pay that much more for the 3800?

I do like the idea of the 2500, but I want a Realta.

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post #41 of 2531 Old 08-08-2007, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SirJohnFalstaff View Post

The way I've been looking at is this: The 2500 is supposed to be priced $1199.00 and the 3800 is $1999.00. If I buy the 2500, I'm already paying a premium. But now I'd want a great upconverting DVD player that could match capabilities of the Realta chip. Can that be done for $800.00 or would it just be best to pay that much more for the 3800?

I do like the idea of the 2500, but I want a Realta.

It is too early to say, but I just can't imagine a player priced at $1200 NOT having video up-scaling and deinterlacing. Now it might just turn out that they end up using the Faroudja chip for the 2500, but again I think there will be some sort of scaler/deinterlacer in there. Only time will tell.
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post #42 of 2531 Old 08-08-2007, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SirJohnFalstaff View Post


I do like the idea of the 2500, but I want a Realta.


You are absolutely right. We all watch regular DVDs and will do it for the next few years. With the 800 bucks you can buy a Toshiba XA2 with the Reon chip and watch sd dvds with a fantastic picture. That's what I use now and can't imagine anything significantly better. If you are not interested at all on HD-DVDs, go for the 3800 with the Realta and you probably will have the best possible upconversion.

Sergio

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post #43 of 2531 Old 08-08-2007, 02:58 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hifisponge View Post

It is too early to say, but I just can't imagine a player priced at $1200 NOT having video up-scaling and deinterlacing. Now it might just turn out that they end up using the Faroudja chip for the 2500, but again I think there will be some sort of scaler/deinterlacer in there. Only time will tell.

I believe Denon's use of the term "digital transport" was only being applied to audio, NOT video.
What are they going to do: send video out HDMI un-decoded?
Come on guys....
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post #44 of 2531 Old 08-08-2007, 03:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gandley View Post

As was asked in another thread about dropping Denon link, from an AVF forum audio guru, it now looks like with the HDMI 1.3a spec, HDMI will now include Audio Rate Control.

from the post by welwynnick

i think this is the best reason why no denon link.

Hi Gandley,

No-one seems to pick up on this anywhere. Going by most people's experience with iLink and Denon Link, this could be agreat way to got good audio over HDMI.

Without this sort of jitter protection, it's difficult to get excited about the prospect of 24 bit audio if it's going to be squandered on jitter that reduces performance below what is is achieveable with 16 bits.

The video will probably be decoded from a compressed (MPEG / VC-1 etc) stream to native de-compressed video. I believe that HDMI does not carry compressed video. De-interlacing, scaling, noise reduction and picture controls will probably have to be done elsewhere. Great move.

Nick
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post #45 of 2531 Old 08-09-2007, 05:55 AM
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I read in one of the press releases (I don't remember which one) that the 2500 and 3800 will both use the same Realta chip.
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post #46 of 2531 Old 08-09-2007, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eulogytool View Post

I read in one of the press releases (I don't remember which one) that the 2500 and 3800 will both use the same Realta chip.

I hope this info is correct, but I have my doubts. On Silicon Optics site their press release states:

"Silicon Optix, the leader in advanced programmable video processors, announced today that Realta HQV® processing will be included in Denon's upcoming flagship A/V receiver, the AVR-5308CI (SRP $5,199), and their first Blu-ray Disc player, the DVD-3800BDCI (SRP $1,999). Both models will be available this fall."

No mention of the 2500.

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post #47 of 2531 Old 08-09-2007, 04:54 PM
 
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Originally Posted by eulogytool View Post

I read in one of the press releases (I don't remember which one) that the 2500 and 3800 will both use the same Realta chip.

Me too.

If they don't both use the Realta, then WHAT will be used?
Lack of audio decoding amounts to the $800 difference?
Certainly, the decoding of DTS-MA will require some horsepower...
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post #48 of 2531 Old 08-13-2007, 07:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Any news on when this will start shipping?

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post #49 of 2531 Old 08-13-2007, 07:40 PM
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As far as I know 4Q is all the info anyone has.
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post #50 of 2531 Old 08-14-2007, 11:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oink View Post

Me too.

If they don't both use the Realta, then WHAT will be used?
Lack of audio decoding amounts to the $800 difference?
Certainly, the decoding of DTS-MA will require some horsepower...

I am pretty sure tha thte 2500 doesn't have the Realta chip. I have read almost every single press release on these players and no where does it ever say the Realta is in the 2500. You will need to use the VP in your receiver or have a outboard VP. I could be completely wrong but I don't think so.
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post #51 of 2531 Old 12-05-2007, 06:38 AM
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Any new news on this transport?
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post #52 of 2531 Old 12-05-2007, 07:07 AM - Thread Starter
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I am waiting to hear something too.

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post #53 of 2531 Old 12-31-2007, 10:55 AM
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on the denon website they have this player and the 3800 listed as of a couple of days ago. They also have a comment that the release date is Jan
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post #54 of 2531 Old 12-31-2007, 01:04 PM
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on the denon website they have this player and the 3800 listed as of a couple of days ago. They also have a comment that the release date is Jan

They have been on the Denon site for a couple of weeks now. Hopefully they will meet their late January time frame. I am going to wait a couple of months and let all the early adopters find all of the pluses and minuses about the two new Denon players.

The more I think about it the more I come to the conclusion that my PS3 will do just fine and spening $1100+ for a player that might now have a lot of "real world" differences if just not worth it.
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post #55 of 2531 Old 12-31-2007, 01:49 PM
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I should post this here. I asked ListenUp about the Denon 2500, and they sent me the latest spec sheet. This sheet, along with another one a dealer recently posted here at AVS, indicates that the 2500 will decode both TrueHD and DTS-HD MA into PCM. The sheet is attached.

 

DVD2500BT specsheet 120707.pdf 237.9130859375k . file
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post #56 of 2531 Old 12-31-2007, 06:07 PM
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I wish these product sheets were dated/numbered. This looks to be a third (different) sheet in the last 3 weeks. I see the Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio nomenclature is back.

I must say this unit does look very enticing

I also wish Denon was gonna be at CES so I could see this unit in person
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post #57 of 2531 Old 12-31-2007, 06:58 PM
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It would seem that unless you need the analog 7.1 outputs, this may be all that's necessary for a receiver with HDMI/monitor pass-through.

One thought: Is there any real-world benefit to hooking up the HDMI to the monitor directly from a player with 1.3 and Deep Color support and 1080p/24 output? If you go through a non-1.3 receiver, will it negate the advanced benefits of these features? I'm using a Denon AVR-4806 into a Pioneer Elite Pro-1540HD (1080i) plasma. Would I gain picture benefit by getting the 3800 (analog outs for sound, HDMI directly to monitor) so that I wouldn't have to route the HDMI through the receiver?

Thanks,

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post #58 of 2531 Old 12-31-2007, 07:44 PM
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Now I am sold on that transport..

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post #59 of 2531 Old 12-31-2007, 09:18 PM
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Now I am sold on that transport..

If that latest sheet is the final specs I think a lot of people will be agreeing with you. I guess we will jsut have to wait and see now. It is definitely looking better than it was yesterday
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post #60 of 2531 Old 12-31-2007, 09:30 PM
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What are they going to do: send video out HDMI un-decoded?

There is a block diagram in the .PDF on Denon's site that shows the output from the player going into a "video decoder" (their words) and "audio decoder" in a pre/pro (specifically, a certain model Denon pre/pro):

http://usa.denon.com/DVD-2500BTCILit_1212.pdf

AFAIK, there is no provision in HDMI for sending a compressed video stream. I hope they aren't doing anything funny with the video output on this player, and this "transport" works the way we expect it to.
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