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-   -   Does my Center is not enough powerfull or its my Av ?? (https://www.avsforum.com/forum/15-general-home-theater-media-game-rooms/1519254-does-my-center-not-enough-powerfull-its-my-av.html)

djdan101 02-22-2014 10:02 AM

This is my setup:

 

 

 

Audio:

Av : Yamaha Rxa-810 7.2

Front : Cerwin Vega CLSC-215

Center : Paradigm CC-370 v.2

Back : Klipsch SS1

Surround Back : Bose 161

Sub : Velodyne Dsl 5000r

Power Amp (for the CLSC-215 : Crown XTi 2002

 

Video :

Projector BenQ W1080 ST

GrandView 100''

 

My Yamaha have Pre-out for each set of speaker so : Front Pre out by Rca cable to my Crown and the

Crown drive the Clsc 215 .

 

After i hook the mic and do the Automatic setup and calibration , all others speaker are in a normal range of

calibration excep my center .   The neutral calibration level is 0 and can go from - 10 to + 10  and after the calibration , my center i setup has +10 .

 

My center in exactly in the middle of my 2 front and at the same distance from me.

 

Does its my center who have not enough power / db of its came from my Av yamaha ??

 

I think the switch my Paradigm CC 370 for a Klipsch RC-62 , do you think the Rc-62 will be more appropriate for my setup ?

 

Thx


djdan101 02-22-2014 10:10 AM

The Yamaha is 100 watt per channel and my current center Paradigm CC370 v.2 is rated 120 watt


weaselfest 02-22-2014 10:44 AM

dude....you're running a pair of dual 15" tower speakers that are 99dB efficient with a Crown pro amp rated at 475 watts per channel and you wonder why it won't keep up with your 100 watt Yamaha receiver and 90 dB efficient home theater speaker? The RC-62 isn't going to help. You need equivalent amplification for your center channel and an equally efficient and comparable driver-equipped center channel speaker if you want things to even out.
Or sell the Crown amp, buy another Cerwin Vega cls 215 and run everything off the Yamaha.

djdan101 02-22-2014 11:38 AM

I won't sell the Crown because my setup is for half and half Home theater and Music listening .. that's why i bough the Crown .. for using the maximum of my Clsc 215 ...

I keep in mind your suggestion of upgrading my center With another external amp like i do for the Front .

weaselfest 02-22-2014 02:14 PM

totally respect not wanting to downgrade to improve things. (bet the place thumps in two channel eek.gif) It takes a doubling of power to increase sound levels 3 dB. You have 4 times the power to your left and right (assuming the gain on your Crown is turned up full) and have a 9 dB difference in efficiency to make up, so on paper, for your Yamaha would need to be connected to a speaker with an efficiency of around 114 dB to keep up with the Cerwin Vegas. Maybe find or build a 4 ohm speaker since you aren't working your AVR power supply so hard only driving the center and rear channel?

djdan101 02-22-2014 08:13 PM

Thx for the suggestion , its a good idea.

I'm s a novice in Home theater and i was not seeing the problem like this , the big difference of the db . It will help me to find a good solution.

djdan101 02-23-2014 06:35 AM

I do have another question about the same "problem".

Because my front are way more powerfull then all the others speakers , when i do the Mic calibration with the Yamaha , he set :
- Front big
- Center Small
- Back Small
- Surround back small

If i manually change the center from small to big , will it help ?

I mean , does this configuration of small or big affect how much watt /power the AV send to the speaker or its just of question of frequencies ?

Thx

Theresa 02-23-2014 06:45 AM

A center really needs to have decent sized midbass driver(s) and as much if not more power as the L/R. The center carries most of the content requiring this.

djdan101 02-23-2014 07:32 AM

Ok , so even if i get another Center like 150watt and add another Power amp for the center (like i do for the front ) it will still not be enough ??

My front receive 475 watt @ 8 ohm from my Crown Xti 2002.

On the back of my front (Clsc -215) its says :Power Handling 400 watts

weaselfest 02-23-2014 09:00 AM

The "large/small" setting in your receiver surround setup is more about crossover frequency between your fronts and your sub than the speaker's physical size. The large setting usually lowers the crossover point between the LCRs and the sub. Can't hurt anything to experiment, but leaving your existing center and rear channels on "small" is a good idea if you run your system loud for extended periods of time given your current speakers.
As far as adding an amp for the center channel, ideally you want to match what your are using for the L & R, if not by make and model, at least by rated power output. Your center channel speaker needs to be able to handle the rated power of the amplifier you connect to it. Power handling capacity is not the same as efficiency. Efficiency is the rating of how loud a speaker will play with a given amount of power, measured from a specific distance. (Usually 1 watt @ 1meter) The higher the efficiency, the louder the speaker will play with a given amount of amplification . Your Cerwin Vegas are 99 dB efficient, which is pretty high on the efficiency range. Any respectable speaker manufacturer will provide this specification, right next to impedence and power handling.
So given a new center channel amp capable of 400-500 watts, you are looking for a center channel speaker capable of handling that amount of power and rated at 99 dB efficiency. You want to match the characteristics of your left and right speakers, maybe not the dual 15" in particularly, but something using 8" or larger mid bass drivers and a horn loaded tweeter. I'm thinking stage monitor on a custom stand to aim it more vertically.
Maybe something like this: CVP 1152

djdan101 02-23-2014 09:39 AM

First , thx to help me and answer my question with good answer .

You says that my Clsc-215 are 99db but when i look on internet and i found ,on many different website reviews , 97 db .

Where did you found the 99db info ?

This morning i try to start a movie and made the switch from small to big for the center and did it many time and i see a little gain on the big setup.
And i also put something under the front bottom of the center to raise the front little and this help a little bit too.. it help.

weaselfest 02-23-2014 10:22 AM

Don't get too worked up about 2 dB. I'm not sure where I saw 99 dB and honestly didn't' spend that much time looking after I saw the general configuration of your speaker, I knew from experience that Cerwin Vega builds a speaker that was going to be very efficient, so it seemed a believable number. If you see 97 dB from multiple sites, then that is probably correct. Double check me on the Paradigm too, but that is another line of speakers I'm pretty familiar with, and know them to usually be a less efficient design, which along with the driver configuration lead me to conclusion of a major mismatch.
Anything you can do to get your center channel speaker more directly in line with your ears, the better off you will be.

ctviggen 02-23-2014 02:13 PM

I had a VMPS RM30 center channel speaker that I could not drive to reference levels with one channel of a Bryston amp; I had to biamp the center channel speaker. On the other hand, I have a Salk HTC center channel speaker that my HT receiver was able to drive to reference levels. For both of these scenarios, I was using a Jeff Rowland amp to power the right and left speakers (2 channel is more important to me).

djdan101 02-24-2014 05:06 AM

I think i will start to looking for a Pro Active speaker with Dual 8" and a horn with enough watt to match my front.
Like the Cerwin vega CVA-28
http://www.cerwinvega.com/pro-audio/powered-speaker-system/full-range-speaker/cva-28.html

djdan101 02-24-2014 05:06 AM

I think i will start to looking for a Pro Active speaker with Dual 8" and a horn with enough watt to match my front.
Like the Cerwin vega CVA-28

djdan101 02-24-2014 12:49 PM

Hi , thx again for all the answer and the info .

I found and order a Cerwin vega CVA-28 used has a demo in a store in ontario and i had a pretty good deal on.

I should receive it until the end of this week max.

Here's the specs :

http://www.cerwinvega.com/pro-audio/powered-speaker-system/full-range-speaker/cva-28.html


This should solve my problem !!

I'll post after i install , calibrated it and listen to it and let you know the result.

djdan101 02-24-2014 12:51 PM

Cerwin vega CVA-28 order!!

I found one use has a demo in a store in ontario on sold on ebay..

I'll receive it by the end of this week and let you know the results..

thx again for the answer and the info.
!!

weaselfest 02-25-2014 05:03 PM

NIce! Two birds with one stone. Please follow up and let us know how things match up.
Metallica "Through the Never" anyone?

djdan101 02-25-2014 05:15 PM

Two birds with one stone ?
What does it suppose to mean ?

I have The Metallica Through the Never show in 1080p / DTS and i love it !!

weaselfest 02-25-2014 05:41 PM

To use only one action to complete two tasks.

djdan101 02-25-2014 05:49 PM

Ahhh ! Now i understand !!

English is not my first language .
Ups says shipping arrived by the end of wednesday (tomorow)

I'll keep you posted

djdan101 02-27-2014 12:34 PM

Just to keep this topic with the last info...
I receive my Cerwin Vega CVA28 yesterday from Electric Sound Crew and one of the Woofer has internal damage.
I send them back today because they dont believe me , even if i make a video and wanted to send it to them....

So i have to wait before descision been taking...


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