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post #2041 of 2078 Old 04-28-2019, 02:55 PM
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Mounting directly to chair is amazing lol.

Do you think you'll move away from nearfields after this, and be completely BOSS + regular sub array?

Edit: my poor reading comprehension - I see you might consider it and move your nearfields up front.

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post #2042 of 2078 Old 04-28-2019, 03:17 PM
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post #2043 of 2078 Old 04-29-2019, 06:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

Looks like you have a few inches of clearance between where you mounted the sub and the distance to the floor. You could jasper jig a few mounting rings to bring the sub closer to the floor... 1.5' - 3" might be enough to fix the reclining issue... In addition, if you are adding those gummy bear feet at some point, it will raise your chair that much higher...

Am I making any damn sense here?

Meh, just a thought.

Guess it's OBE if you've already bought the MB Quart subs.

One other thing, I modeled a few drivers with mass added to the cones. It DRASTICALLY effects the upper end response of the sub, which should mean NOTHING to you since you are probably cutting these subs below 40Hz. The added mass will lower the fs of the sub and should help achieve even more of the feels.

My bad if all of this has already been mentioned.
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post #2044 of 2078 Old 04-29-2019, 08:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Archaea's multi-purpose Home Theater room

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Originally Posted by popalock View Post
Looks like you have a few inches of clearance between where you mounted the sub and the distance to the floor. You could jasper jig a few mounting rings to bring the sub closer to the floor... 1.5' - 3" might be enough to fix the reclining issue... In addition, if you are adding those gummy bear feet at some point, it will raise your chair that much higher...



Am I making any damn sense here?



Meh, just a thought.



Guess it's OBE if you've already bought the MB Quart subs.



One other thing, I modeled a few drivers with mass added to the cones. It DRASTICALLY effects the upper end response of the sub, which should mean NOTHING to you since you are probably cutting these subs below 40Hz. The added mass will lower the fs of the sub and should help achieve even more of the feels.



My bad if all of this has already been mentioned.


Cutting these subs below 40Hz?



I'll play with them, but my initial plan is cut them above 30hz. I don't really need or even really like frequencies hitting me in the upper bass regions and buzzing my teeth if you will. I like the wobble of the lower frequencies.



As to adding mass to the cones - I'm definitely not opposed to trying that. The guys in the Boss thread were saying moving mass on the driver cone is important, for fairly clear reasons.



There's just not enough room for those 10" infinity subs - unless I put the chairs up on literally 4" of leg rise, and aim them up. from the bottom of that board to the ground is less than 3", with the carpet give/clearance, probably closer to 2.5". Above that board the reclining mechanism metal bar you see sweeps across most of that whole area with about 1.5 to 2" of clearance at minimum, but not much more than that as you recline anywhere. It's enough to have a subwoofer driver firing up though. So with the 20 duro isolated 1.5” feet, I'll have enough top mount depth and enough clearance on top for the driver excursion with the shallow mount MB quart 3" tall driver, and even then not a lot to spare. In fact one of the reasons I went with this driver over the 4" Pioneer with the heavier moving mass on the cone, was because I didn't know if I could spare that extra inch without difficulty. The Infinity 10” is just massively deeper --- 4" deeper than the MB Quart 12"



Maybe these pics will better show the current space limitation.
















Ordered an iNuke DSP 3000 off gear club direct for $252 shipped tonight, the MB Quart shallow mount subs already shipped, need one more Hosa XLR splitter from Amazon and I'm in business.
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Archaea's 9.8.4 Home Theater Room
(13) JBL CBT 70j-1 | Denon x7200wa | Sherbourn PA 7-350 amplifier | (8) Ultimax 18" sealed subwoofers | (4) iNuke DSP 6000 amplifiers | (4) MB Quart 12" subwoofers mounted direct mounted to Berkline theater chairs BOSS style | Epson 5040UB Projector | Jamestown 144" acoustic transparent 2.35:1 screen w/ Seymour XD fabric

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post #2045 of 2078 Old 04-30-2019, 08:19 AM
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Are you already cutting your NF setup at 30hz or are those running full range?

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post #2046 of 2078 Old 04-30-2019, 09:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
Are you already cutting your NF setup at 30hz or are those running full range?


Full, but I think physically attached is a different animal all together — at least with my transducer experiences.(Clark, Buttkicker, Aura, Crowsons, etc). Lots of experimenting to come.

Everything’s ordered and on its way. I secured a couple sets of the Hudson HI-FI, 20 durometer, isolators too before they sold out again. Slightly firmer than gummy bears on the durometer chart.

I’ll use four per chair as feet. See if they are worth it/needed in comparison to without the isolators. The BOSS guys rave about them and I can see why after experiencing @carp s BOSS platform. They were so jiggly carp’s weight walking on his riser was bouncing the platform. Hopefully they’ll be as effective on individual chairs as feet for that ultra low frequency wobble feel.


Archaea's 9.8.4 Home Theater Room
(13) JBL CBT 70j-1 | Denon x7200wa | Sherbourn PA 7-350 amplifier | (8) Ultimax 18" sealed subwoofers | (4) iNuke DSP 6000 amplifiers | (4) MB Quart 12" subwoofers mounted direct mounted to Berkline theater chairs BOSS style | Epson 5040UB Projector | Jamestown 144" acoustic transparent 2.35:1 screen w/ Seymour XD fabric

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post #2047 of 2078 Old 04-30-2019, 09:37 AM
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I don't get it. with the feet and the subs mounted to the chair I feel like it'd shake the pee right out of you. Is that really all that enjoyable for that massive amount of TR? I feel like it'd take me out of the experience some...

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post #2048 of 2078 Old 04-30-2019, 09:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
I don't get it. with the feet and the subs mounted to the chair I feel like it'd shake the pee right out of you. Is that really all that enjoyable for that massive amount of TR? I feel like it'd take me out of the experience some...






Brandon, it probably won't be for everyone, but knowing you, I seriously bet you’d like it. The beauty of it is you dial natural tactile feel to taste without affecting overall FR or SPL levels.

@desertdome experienced my rough draft on Sunday morning for just a few minutes. He said when comparing the attached 10” subwoofer in seat 4 (end seat with no nearfield sealed 18”) to my 18” nearfield subs in my center seat 2 (MLP) it made the nearfield subs feel like they weren’t doing anything at all — and that’s without the isolated feet in place - just the chair sitting on the carpet. He said it already felt like a Crowson. I disagree slightly, but only because I think it already has potential to be much better/stronger than a Crowson when properly dialed in with PEQ and shelf EQ. It feels more natural to me than a Crowson — which still feels like a tactile transducer at the end of the day (to me).



FWIW, several guys in the BOSS thread are saying those Hudson duro 20 feet offer a much better experience than the Crowson stock feet — and are upgrading their feet for their Crowsons.



Here's the link for the feet.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
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Archaea's 9.8.4 Home Theater Room
(13) JBL CBT 70j-1 | Denon x7200wa | Sherbourn PA 7-350 amplifier | (8) Ultimax 18" sealed subwoofers | (4) iNuke DSP 6000 amplifiers | (4) MB Quart 12" subwoofers mounted direct mounted to Berkline theater chairs BOSS style | Epson 5040UB Projector | Jamestown 144" acoustic transparent 2.35:1 screen w/ Seymour XD fabric

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post #2049 of 2078 Old 05-15-2019, 10:02 PM - Thread Starter
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I’ve been playing with two different BOSS platform layouts.

Here is my take after a couple hours of demoing back and forth, between BOSS platform and direct chair mount with the exact same amplifier settings and power going to each MB Quart driver. 24hz high cut shelf at 12/dB per octave in the DSP. Voltage limiter engaged - 40 watts maxed for two subwoofers. I wasn't hitting the limiter and the subs weren't making any bad feel/sound -- I played a lot of music, and movie clips - movie clips off the scubasteve demo disk2.

Direct Chair mount setup: More natural feeling, you'd not know it was engaged over my regular subwoofers if I didn't tell you. It's not fun as you turn it up, because it seems to give you that feeling of "buzing" as you increase output. It's best and very natural with the output kept in check and a low Hz shelf LPF (easy to do). It doesn't bounce very much. Just adds realistic acoustic energy feel. As in I can get pretty much identical tactile feel that reflects running my eight 18" subwoofers at reference, at any main listening volume I want -- and it feels very natural. Want to go crazy and just see how loud you can take it?? -- doesn't feel good.

BOSS platform: More jello jiggly vertical bounce feeling by probably 50% at the same settings, with the exact same power. The BOSS platform jiggles more. I like that bounce, it's fun, but reality is that the effect of sitting on a trampoline isn't fully realistic, bass doesn't make you bounce like that. So I'm torn. Want more crazy? Turn it up, you just bounce more, but it never feels bad! However, I've been in home theater rooms with 140dB-150dB real bass (pennynike1 and Lukeamdman in particular) and bouncing like that, that Jello feeling, even at those ridiculous tremendous SPL levels doesn't really happen. (Both of those rooms are basement slab home theater rooms for what is' worth). The bounce is fun, and grin inducing, don't get me wrong, but I think ultra realism might take a slight backseat to the Fun characteristic when the BOSS platform is cranked to max. I need to do more testing still to make a decision. I think I almost found a middle ground in putting boards under the 20 durameter iso on the direct mount setup instead of letting the ISOs sit directly on the carpet, but even then I still can't get the jiggly shake of the BOSS platform with the direct mount setup. If it's any consideration they are both great, and I'm having trouble figuring out which way I want to go - even after two hours of demoing back and forth - direct A/B. So either route is quite good. I think if I wanted to never tell someone I'd done this additional tactile response, I'd use the direct mount and I'd wager big money no enthusiast would guess what I'd done with volume in check. They’d just think my subwoofers were extremely tactile — vs, if I wanted to say hey check this out, and bounce someone's ball cap off and make them grin ear to ear laughter, I’d do the BOSS platform and then be asked by my guest to explain how I did that, cause it clearly wasn’t something they expected. Sort of a sleeper car vs show car analogy.

I asked my wife to come down and listen and tell me what she thought. I played a few songs for her and she sat in both seats for them. She said she wasn't good to judge because she hates bass, and hates feeling her vision blur and her eyes jiggle, and the feeling of anxiousness that bass causes. (I didn't have it anywhere near loud enough to do those things to me, but she's super sensitive to it she always says) Anyway she humored me and participated. She didn't like either, surprise. She said the BOSS platform made her eyes feel like they were bouncing in her head, and the direct mount made her head feel like it was buzzing. She said when it was lower volume she liked the direct mount better, but as I turned it up the direct mount made her whole body tingly and her head vibrate, and the BOSS platform was just too much movement for her, but was less annoying. So really we came to the same observations (more or less) -- just she didn't like either concept and I like both!

I liked the realism of the direct mount, but who can ignore the fun of the BOSS in the IronMan Jericho missile scene, or the Cannon fire in Master and Commander? For those scenes the BOSS's extra jiggle and depth was fantastic! In BlackHawk down the BOSS jiggled, more, but I felt the direct mount was more accurate to what those Choppers really feel like (I've flown in them). In the THX Amazing Life clip the mushroom thump was more exaggerated and fun with the BOSS, but more tight and controlled feeling with the direct mount. On Star Wars Red Matter I like both equally. On the Depth Charge scene from U571, the explosion felt more jiggly on BOSS, and tighter with direct mount - I liked both. With the Cave Troll scene where the hobbit knocks the bucket down the well, the BOSS platform actually shook there, I didn't even know that bucket was supposed to have bass. Mr. and Mrs. Smith was better on the direct mount because the shotgun blasts were tight, vs. jiggly. And so on and so on...More of the same coin toss for the victory — unique per demo clip.

One more note --- for music with my current settings. The BOSS platform with my generic 24hz 12/dB linkwitz shelf filter (and my MBQuart drivers) activates insanely at the lowest frequencies, but doesn't do much above those frequencies so it seems (at least with no PEQ) to be very clearly only activating on the lowest notes. I.E., if I'm listing to music there's nothing in Diana Crawl with the BOSS platform, in some modern top 40 music a few notes jiggle you around, but most you feel nothing, and finally dubstep makes you wobble around like you’re on a fishing dock in a lake full of jello. In contrast, with the same settings, the direct mount MB Quart driver let's me feel every frequency all the way up to kick drums in a increasingly diminished manner as the frequency increases -- it feels like the LPF shelf says it should (or perhaps how the EQ shelf looks like it should feel). I'm sure I could get the BOSS platform build to be more even handed as it fades up in frequency with some additional tinkering and manual PEQ -- this isn't to take away from the BOSS build -- just describing the current clear difference between the two different builds. Both feel on the whole very natural, and better to me than any traditional tactile transducer.


Direct Mount Pics:








BOSS Platform Pics:







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Archaea's 9.8.4 Home Theater Room
(13) JBL CBT 70j-1 | Denon x7200wa | Sherbourn PA 7-350 amplifier | (8) Ultimax 18" sealed subwoofers | (4) iNuke DSP 6000 amplifiers | (4) MB Quart 12" subwoofers mounted direct mounted to Berkline theater chairs BOSS style | Epson 5040UB Projector | Jamestown 144" acoustic transparent 2.35:1 screen w/ Seymour XD fabric

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post #2050 of 2078 Old 05-16-2019, 06:47 AM
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Nice write up, I have two 12" JBL's and 8 isolators sitting in my office and have yet to do anything with them yet. I did find out while trying to figure out what was wrong with my old Preamp that I have some bad amps that I was going to use to power my subs. Now I will need to get them fixed before I can build and play with my BOSS setup. My wife too is not a fan of a lot of bass so this will will interesting to say the least.

I guess the question is is this good enough to replace your 3 18" nearfield subs. Those were fun to experience especially when you played the launch scene in Interstellar. That may be a good clip to try out for the BOSS.

I hope to get some time this weekend to play with my new Marantz SR6013 and fiigure out if I have some bad wiring or and bad tower speaker. Hoping it is just wiring.

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post #2051 of 2078 Old 05-16-2019, 07:56 AM - Thread Starter
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@Ladeback

The BOSS idea is a sufficient direct replacement for nearfield 18”s at any typical listening volume. I’ve not done any testing at reference MLV yet. Just more along the lines of my traditional movie watching volumes. -6 to -14 type ranges, or music listening in the vicinity of -6 to -36.

The BOSS is so much more capable that it makes it feel like my nearfield 18”s aren’t even on...using the same settings I’ve so much enjoyed in the past — but it’s great in that it is a very natural feel — just like that of the nearfield 18”. (Just more of it). It’s a better feel than the crowson in my subjective opinion.

I suspect as you approach reference and above the nearfield 18” may still have its place - because of the room pressurization feel that they can give. That’s yet to be tested for me to comment on. Carp has already listed and maybe sold his nearfield sub. He says the BOSS makes it irrelevant. I’d largely agree thus far.
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Archaea's 9.8.4 Home Theater Room
(13) JBL CBT 70j-1 | Denon x7200wa | Sherbourn PA 7-350 amplifier | (8) Ultimax 18" sealed subwoofers | (4) iNuke DSP 6000 amplifiers | (4) MB Quart 12" subwoofers mounted direct mounted to Berkline theater chairs BOSS style | Epson 5040UB Projector | Jamestown 144" acoustic transparent 2.35:1 screen w/ Seymour XD fabric

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post #2052 of 2078 Old 05-16-2019, 08:06 AM
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Jon, did you ever test out just the duro feet with your nearfields and no BOSS stuff? Did the feet by themselves help out the tactile effect of your nearfields/far fields? I know it will be nowhere close to the effect of the BOSS but even moderate improvement would be a nice, easy upgrade...for those of us refusing to jump on this stupid boss train

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post #2053 of 2078 Old 05-16-2019, 11:38 AM
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Has anyone checked to see if several of these under seat subs interfere with bass response in the room? Definitely intriguing for those on slabs. For those of us on suspended wood floors, blasphemous, ha, just kidding.

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post #2054 of 2078 Old 05-16-2019, 12:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dgage View Post
Has anyone checked to see if several of these under seat subs interfere with bass response in the room? Definitely intriguing for those on slabs. For those of us on suspended wood floors, blasphemous, ha, just kidding.

I haven’t measured yet with my omnimic.

But audibly the direct mount is totally silent, besides the very light flutter of the subwoofer surround when I put my head under the footrest on a few occasions to visibly monitor excursion levels —- and the BOSS platform is nearly so. Certainly neither (open air) is competing with my sealed 18” subs on the output front. Carp has done some measurements and his BOSS risers are moot to the rooms FR, but his rear riser actually contributes because that ends up being closer to that of a giant box or even infinite baffle.

I think this is one of the core pluses of the BOSS concept - you get as much natural shake as you want, without affecting your FR or SPL levels.

I think about running that giant SI 24” subwoofer open air at popalocks house with a clone amp - it basically made no noise even at max excursion levels because the front and rear waves canceled out. Same concept.
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post #2055 of 2078 Old 05-16-2019, 02:33 PM
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Good info. Thanks Jon.
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post #2056 of 2078 Old 05-16-2019, 02:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
Jon, did you ever test out just the duro feet with your nearfields and no BOSS stuff? Did the feet by themselves help out the tactile effect of your nearfields/far fields? I know it will be nowhere close to the effect of the BOSS but even moderate improvement would be a nice, easy upgrade...for those of us refusing to jump on this stupid boss train

I'll test tonight and let you know, but I don't expect it'll do much on your concrete slab. Sorry I've not tested that yet. I've been meaning to.


You need to quit dragging your feet though....even if begrudgingly, just jump on board and be amazed.


I personally guarantee you'd like a boss platform. Sheldon and I both really like it, and the three of us all had fairly similar bass setups with 8+ 18" sealed drivers. I thought it would be sort of novelty too, until I experienced it at carps.
All things considered it's a cheap, significant, upgrade in this hobby, certainly for those of us on concrete -- but really - it's a step up from a wood floor setup too.

@Scott Simonian, you should try these 20 durometer Hudson HiFi isolators under your riser. Since you already have the riser woofers, this would take it to the next level. The gummy bear squishiness rubber feet really add a lot!
You need a rubber foot every 1-2 foot of riser, so you might need quite a few, but that's just the way it is, otherwise they'll squish flat and won't do much of anything. They are only made to hold 40-60lbs each by their rating. I weigh more than that with my chair by a significant amount, but four per chair still really does an amazing job. @carp, how many do you have on your riser? Carp's riser can get to dancing!!!

@chirpie, @sigma722 , Will your new theater spaces have the potential to use any of these 20 duro Isolators on the risers? I'd love to give you a demo, or I'm sure Sheldon would as well! If I was building a theater from scratch, like you are, I'd ABSOLUTELY integrate these BOSS concepts into the seating area.

Archaea's 9.8.4 Home Theater Room
(13) JBL CBT 70j-1 | Denon x7200wa | Sherbourn PA 7-350 amplifier | (8) Ultimax 18" sealed subwoofers | (4) iNuke DSP 6000 amplifiers | (4) MB Quart 12" subwoofers mounted direct mounted to Berkline theater chairs BOSS style | Epson 5040UB Projector | Jamestown 144" acoustic transparent 2.35:1 screen w/ Seymour XD fabric

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post #2057 of 2078 Old 05-16-2019, 04:28 PM
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I have 8 on my back row riser. I have at least that many on each my 2 front row mini risers.
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post #2058 of 2078 Old 05-16-2019, 05:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
Jon, did you ever test out just the duro feet with your nearfields and no BOSS stuff? Did the feet by themselves help out the tactile effect of your nearfields/far fields? I know it will be nowhere close to the effect of the BOSS but even moderate improvement would be a nice, easy upgrade...for those of us refusing to jump on this stupid boss train
When I was test fitting my couch on my boss platform I got a lot of movement of the platform from my subs without having the BOSS subs powered. I have 4 S2’s in this room with 2 of them behind the couch maybe 3-4 inches from the BOSS platform. Maybe being very near field helped move the platform?
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post #2059 of 2078 Old 05-16-2019, 06:28 PM
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Great info, thank you. Have you tried either the direct or the boss setup with just your mains on (all other subs off) to see what it’s like?
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post #2060 of 2078 Old 05-16-2019, 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
I'll test tonight and let you know, but I don't expect it'll do much on your concrete slab. Sorry I've not tested that yet. I've been meaning to.


You need to quit dragging your feet though....even if begrudgingly, just jump on board and be amazed.


I personally guarantee you'd like a boss platform. Sheldon and I both really like it, and the three of us all had fairly similar bass setups with 8+ 18" sealed drivers. I thought it would be sort of novelty two, until I experienced it at carps.
All things considered it's a cheap, significant, upgrade in this hobby, certainly for those of us on concrete -- but really - it's a step up from a wood floor setup too.

@Scott Simonian, you should try these 20 durometer Hudson HiFi isolators under your riser. Since you already have the riser woofers, this would take it to the next level. The gummy bear squishiness rubber feet really add a lot!
You need a rubber foot every 1-2 foot of riser, so you might need quite a few, but that's just the way it is, otherwise they'll squish flat and won't do much of anything. They are only made to hold 40-60lbs each by their rating. I weigh more than that with my chair by a significant amount, but four per chair still really does an amazing job. @carp, how many do you have on your riser? Carp's riser can get to dancing!!!

@chirpie, @sigma722 , Will your new theater spaces have the potential to use any of these 20 duro Isolators on the risers? I'd love to give you a demo, or I'm sure Sheldon would as well! If I was building a theater from scratch, like you are, I'd ABSOLUTELY integrate these BOSS concepts into the seating area.
I had tried something similar years ago. I placed a Dayton Sub 1000L from parts express under my MLP chair and on top of a piece of plywood. It was pretty cool. After I moved on from the chair to a more family friendly couch arrangement the sub went out to pasture. I do miss it on occasion. This is the only known picture. You can barely make out the plywood under the chair under the projector.
The sub: https://www.parts-express.com/dayton...oofer--300-639
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post #2061 of 2078 Old 05-16-2019, 08:39 PM
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post #2062 of 2078 Old 05-16-2019, 10:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Archaea's multi-purpose Home Theater room

I’d like you to try it out. I want some feedback before I select one or the other.

You can come see the giant green ink blob that just popped up on my 3rd refurb Epson projector too.

Friday night? After 7:30pm?


——-
I have some guests coming over Sunday, and I’d like to have the BOSS inspired subwoofers finalized and installed by then.

Funny story. The guests on Sunday are actually door to door security salesman. I had one try to sell me a system and in doing so he saw my home theater room and told me he HAD to have a demo before he left. I obliged, he loved it so much he wanted to show his buddies and asked if he could bring some of his group back to let them experience it too. They were in the area from their home base in Florida. I scheduled for Sunday afternoon with them. The look of excitement on his face when I demoed for him was just as fun for me to see. He said he and his buddies had been in a lot of homes with home theaters, across the nation, but he’d never seen or experienced anything like mine. He was taking video and pictures and sent it to his fellow salesman, he texted me a couple days later and said my theater room was the constant chatter in their group chat the whole week. I told him there were a group of enthusiast theaters in KC - with similarly capable systems and that we hung out and went to g2gs together and had movie nights and stuff. He was blown away.

Pretty fun! I didn’t buy a security system, but I did enjoy demoing the theater to him. Think of a young man who’s really interested in home audio, but has simply never experienced the types of setups we ravenous enthusiasts have almost come to think of as almost typical.

You mean most people don’t have eight 18”s or a pile of horn subs and 11-13 speakers in a Dolby Atmos or DTS-X setup? Come on now!!!???


——
Oh and my wife later said wait what??? You are asking if the salesman and his friends can come over Sunday for another demo? Do you know any of them?

Ummm...

(All of this is normal...right?)

@carp , I tried to use you as an example as to why this wasn’t crazy. “Sheldon sometimes has his high school track students over for a movie nights and he’s normal! her rebuttal, Sheldon KNOWS those kids.

Ummmm, well you didn’t see how excited he was about the system and I remember being excited like that —- how can you turn down that level of enthusiasm? She just shook her head, but didn’t forbid it. Yeah!


So yeah, umm, I’m accepting pointers on how to latently explain this invite more effectively to Megan?
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(13) JBL CBT 70j-1 | Denon x7200wa | Sherbourn PA 7-350 amplifier | (8) Ultimax 18" sealed subwoofers | (4) iNuke DSP 6000 amplifiers | (4) MB Quart 12" subwoofers mounted direct mounted to Berkline theater chairs BOSS style | Epson 5040UB Projector | Jamestown 144" acoustic transparent 2.35:1 screen w/ Seymour XD fabric

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post #2063 of 2078 Old 05-16-2019, 10:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Darn’t @beastaudio , I didn’t get to your test tonight. I got home late, an old buddy called and we spoke for a couple hours, my wife and I got to talking and here it is midnight. I powered up the projector saw the green dust blob — Feel disgusted and am going to bed. I’ll try again tomorrow.


@corradizo

I don’t think the direct mount makes much sound at all. It’s pretty much open baffle. The BOSS platform makes a little noise, but it isn’t loud. I don’t think you could get away with no external subs — but I’ll try your test tomorrow too.


PS. At least this new dust blob on the third Epson 5040UB isn’t as bad as the second refurb 5040UB was out of the box with its 6 huge dust blobs. STUPID they’d ship that unit out like this:

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(13) JBL CBT 70j-1 | Denon x7200wa | Sherbourn PA 7-350 amplifier | (8) Ultimax 18" sealed subwoofers | (4) iNuke DSP 6000 amplifiers | (4) MB Quart 12" subwoofers mounted direct mounted to Berkline theater chairs BOSS style | Epson 5040UB Projector | Jamestown 144" acoustic transparent 2.35:1 screen w/ Seymour XD fabric

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post #2064 of 2078 Old 05-17-2019, 05:47 AM
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For my area I have 2 Marty's that will be at the front, and then went ahead and wired two wires to the front row of seats for potential near fields. I'm in a similar situation where I wouldn't really want to raise the seats up so probably would be considering direct mounting as well. So I guess I'd be looking at doesn't some creative wiring to pull it off. maybe two in series to get 8ohm (maybe the sides) and then center chair could be direct wired for 8ohm?The back row I probably won't worry about at this point, but in general, back row would likely be easier to wire later... maybe. Definitely interested in demoing it sometime. It seems like a really nice alternative to crowsons and the like. My theater is directly below my bedroom, so keeping the spl level down on the bass will be required late at night
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post #2065 of 2078 Old 05-17-2019, 07:42 AM
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When I was test fitting my couch on my boss platform I got a lot of movement of the platform from my subs without having the BOSS subs powered. I have 4 S2’s in this room with 2 of them behind the couch maybe 3-4 inches from the BOSS platform. Maybe being very near field helped move the platform?
Nice, I would have thought with enough firepower nearfield that the feet would certainly not hurt, so that is good to know.

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I obliged, he loved it so much he wanted to show his buddies and asked if he could bring some of his group back to let them experience it too....

He was taking video and pictures and sent it to his fellow salesman....

he texted me a couple days later and said my theater room was the constant chatter in their group chat the whole week...
That's all called "Casing the joint"

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So yeah, umm, I’m accepting pointers on how to latently explain this invite more effectively to Megan?
I just tell my Megan, "It's ok, I have my piece on me"

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post #2066 of 2078 Old 05-17-2019, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

@chirpie, @sigma722 , Will your new theater spaces have the potential to use any of these 20 duro Isolators on the risers? I'd love to give you a demo, or I'm sure Sheldon would as well! If I was building a theater from scratch, like you are, I'd ABSOLUTELY integrate these BOSS concepts into the seating area.
I really want to get over there to try this out. I'm unfortunately on kid watching duty in the evening while the wife is on a business trip and the day she gets back we're heading out for a road trip vacation. Think you'll still have the platform in June or will you be converting all seats to direct?

FWIW, I'd still be interested in feeling a direct mount woofer since I won't have risers in my first or second row, only the third. The other two will end up being concrete. I feel like this is a space-saving visually unobtrusive method to get back what we cement slabbers are always missing out on. ^_^
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post #2067 of 2078 Old 05-17-2019, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
I’d like you to try it out. I want some feedback before I select one or the other.

You can come see the giant green ink blob that just popped up on my 3rd refurb Epson projector too.

Friday night? After 7:30pm?


——-
I have some guests coming over Sunday, and I’d like to have the BOSS inspired subwoofers finalized and installed by then.

Funny story. The guests on Sunday are actually door to door security salesman. I had one try to sell me a system and in doing so he saw my home theater room and told me he HAD to have a demo before he left. I obliged, he loved it so much he wanted to show his buddies and asked if he could bring some of his group back to let them experience it too. They were in the area from their home base in Florida. I scheduled for Sunday afternoon with them. The look of excitement on his face when I demoed for him was just as fun for me to see. He said he and his buddies had been in a lot of homes with home theaters, across the nation, but he’d never seen or experienced anything like mine. He was taking video and pictures and sent it to his fellow salesman, he texted me a couple days later and said my theater room was the constant chatter in their group chat the whole week. I told him there were a group of enthusiast theaters in KC - with similarly capable systems and that we hung out and went to g2gs together and had movie nights and stuff. He was blown away.

Pretty fun! I didn’t buy a security system, but I did enjoy demoing the theater to him. Think of a young man who’s really interested in home audio, but has simply never experienced the types of setups we ravenous enthusiasts have almost come to think of as almost typical.

You mean most people don’t have eight 18”s or a pile of horn subs and 11-13 speakers in a Dolby Atmos or DTS-X setup? Come on now!!!???


——
Oh and my wife later said wait what??? You are asking if the salesman and his friends can come over Sunday for another demo? Do you know any of them?

Ummm...

(All of this is normal...right?)

@carp , I tried to use you as an example as to why this wasn’t crazy. “Sheldon sometimes has his high school track students over for a movie nights and he’s normal! her rebuttal, Sheldon KNOWS those kids.

Ummmm, well you didn’t see how excited he was about the system and I remember being excited like that —- how can you turn down that level of enthusiasm? She just shook her head, but didn’t forbid it. Yeah!


So yeah, umm, I’m accepting pointers on how to latently explain this invite more effectively to Megan?


Tell Megan that's how all of us met each other back in 2011. A group of online weirdo/strangers met up at your old house to compare subwoofers and we haven't left each other alone since.

As far as my athletes go I have only had groups of former kids come over, they were all either in college or graduated from college. Drinking age or above.

I did have one high school kid that drove down to get some dry needling PT treatments (that wasn't available in MO at the time) at my wife's clinic a few years ago and then I had him stop by the house to get a John Wick demo.
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post #2068 of 2078 Old 05-18-2019, 09:43 AM - Thread Starter
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@desertdome spent the night last night again. We spent some time evaluating the BOSS platforms by putting different clips on repeat and switching seats back and forth. Then after we did that for a while we turned the BOSS stuff off and just listened to regular nearfield. At the end of our demo session he told me he just liked my regular 8 subwoofers/nearfield setup the best with no BOSS or Direct Mount. WHAT? no way...It's like what the 18's do -- but more! What about of the BOSS? Of the two his favorite he said, overall, was the direct mount. Which I also scratched my head at, because nearly every clip he was saying he liked the BOSS platform the best as we switched back and forth.

He said the direct mount felt the most realistic of the two which is my same line of thinking, and that's what he'd go with. He agreed it could pass for not having a transducer at all, just having a LOT of tactile feedback from the main subs --- even so I still found myself liking the BOSS platform quite a bit. I mean I can get the realism that the direct mount provides, mostly just by turning it up -- I always run a few demos for guests at reference volumes with the subs say 9dB hot and that'll get you there -- but I can't touch the jiggly feeling (silly as it may be) with my 8 18's on a concrete slab - not even close. It's not a real feel - but it is still enjoyable! As previously discussed - you can't do that jiggle feeling with sheer SPL even into the 150dB range at Lukeamdman's house or Pennynike1's place. It's the softness of the 20 durameter isolate feet that allow that silly, fun, giggly jello effect.

To try to answer @beastaudio 's question, about if the isos provide benefit without the actual BOSS subwoofer engaged, I took out vibrasensor, and ran five quick demos of the canon scene in Master in Commander. That's a fun clip on the Boss Platform because it's SOOOO jiggly with the cannon fire. Desertdome was all smiles on the BOSS platform, and said "it feels like I'm really onboard a ship being torn apart by cannon fire" as we demoed it last night.

Anyway here are the readings. I don't use vibrasensor enough to really even know what all this means. Maybe @dominguez1 can help.

For these tests I put the MLV at -10. The subs are running hot as usual (probably about +9dB). And all eight 18's are on and in their normal places. So each chair has a nearfield 18" firing into the back as always. I put a 3 second pause on the app, clicked start on the app on my iPhone 8+ and on the demo scene through J-River at the same time in each instance, and these are the results.



BOSS Direct Mount on left
Unaltered chair in middle
BOSS Platform chair on right


Title: Standard Chair - NO ISOs (middle chair - BOSS amp off for testing since armrests touch)
Acq: 18 May 2019 (11:18 am) Length: 0 min 5 sec
Points: 596 Gaps: none
Data rate: 100.2 Hz Units: m/s^2
Peak raw: X (2.07) Y (2.49) Z (14.67)
ISD: X (0.42) Y (0.49) Z (1)
Resonances:
X: 29 Hz (0.024), 34 Hz (0.021)
Y: 29 Hz (0.024), 25 Hz (0.023)
Z: 29 Hz (0.17), 22 Hz (0.11)

Title: Standard Chair with 20 durameter ISOs, but direct mount woofer/amp OFF

Acq: 18 May 2019 (11:19 am) Length: 0 min 5 sec
Points: 598 Gaps: none
Data rate: 100.2 Hz Units: m/s^2
Peak raw: X (0.73) Y (3.20) Z (18.26)
ISD: X (0.16) Y (0.76) Z (1.7)
Resonances:
X: 29 Hz (0.0029), 31 Hz (0.0016)
Y: 31 Hz (0.14), 34 Hz (0.083)
Z: 31 Hz (0.67), 34 Hz (0.38)

Title: Standard Chair with BOSS Platform, but BOSS woofer/amp off


Acq: 18 May 2019 (11:20 am) Length: 0 min 5 sec
Points: 597 Gaps: none
Data rate: 100.2 Hz Units: m/s^2
Peak raw: X (1.88) Y (2.42) Z (18.10)
ISD: X (0.32) Y (0.66) Z (1.6)
Resonances:
X: 34 Hz (0.012)
Y: 29 Hz (0.077)
Z: 29 Hz (0.57)

Title: Standard Chair with BOSS Platfom ON
Acq: 18 May 2019 (11:21 am) Length: 0 min 5 sec
Points: 597 Gaps: none
Data rate: 100.2 Hz Units: m/s^2
Peak raw: X (1.53) Y (2.46) Z (LIMIT)
ISD: X (0.3) Y (0.71) Z (2.1)
Resonances:
X: 34 Hz (0.021)
Y: 31 Hz (0.1)
Z: 29 Hz (1.3)

Title: Standard Chair with Direct Mount Hybrid BOSS WOOFER ON
Acq: 18 May 2019 (11:22 am) Length: 0 min 5 sec
Points: 600 Gaps: none
Data rate: 100.2 Hz Units: m/s^2
Peak raw: X (0.83) Y (3.08) Z (15.43)
ISD: X (0.2) Y (0.83) Z (1.2)
Resonances:
X: 31 Hz (0.005), 40 Hz (0.0026)
Y: 31 Hz (0.14), 34 Hz (0.07)
Z: 31 Hz (0.24), 34 Hz (0.12)

@dominguez1 , I read the instructions on the vibrasensor thread and I didn't have any rice or equivalent. So don't laugh, but I used a piece of soft bread in my tests sitting a top my seat, with the phone on top of the slice of bread. This to help buffer the seat from the phone. Whatever - the same odd use case was used in each scenario.

Potential testing concerns: my chairs share armrests, so it's likely some vibration transfers, even though the two BOSS equipped platforms were tested on the outside. The center chair with no ISOs is the MLP where the calibration is done, so impact response will be maximized/optimized there. The center seat probably has more bass from the nearfield than the outside chairs because it has not only it's own neafield 18" but a nearfield on either side flanking it. I have three nearfield 18"s, one behind each chair, and the other five 18"s are up front, under the screen, in a bit of a curve to help equalize distance from MLP. My eight 18" subs put a heck of a lot of tactile feedback in the room already, these tests were run with all active - just as I normally run my home theater room. The BOSS subwoofers were at a comfortable fun level, not using more than 20 watts each (limiter engaged on NX3000D DSP) -- so not max output - just comfortable output. I have a Linkwitz high cut shelf on the NX3000D set at 24hz with a 12dB slope - so limiting higher frequencies to the BOSS woofer.

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(13) JBL CBT 70j-1 | Denon x7200wa | Sherbourn PA 7-350 amplifier | (8) Ultimax 18" sealed subwoofers | (4) iNuke DSP 6000 amplifiers | (4) MB Quart 12" subwoofers mounted direct mounted to Berkline theater chairs BOSS style | Epson 5040UB Projector | Jamestown 144" acoustic transparent 2.35:1 screen w/ Seymour XD fabric

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post #2069 of 2078 Old 05-18-2019, 11:18 AM - Thread Starter
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As I was reviewing this test data, it's interesting but something to me seems very off, because this test data shows the direct mount as less shake than the standard chair, and there's NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO way that's right according to subjective feel. So there must be some sort of vibration conflict for lack of a better term between the vibsensor app and the nearfield sub and the direct mount woofer.

I'm going to repeat the test with all three nearfield subs completely off and see where those data points land.

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post #2070 of 2078 Old 05-18-2019, 12:46 PM
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I suggest using 0-50Hz white noise for this purpose and then compare the PSDs
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