Trying to build a home sound system, need help! - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 18 Old 12-06-2014, 07:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Thumbs up Trying to build a home sound system, need help!

I bought 4 in wall speakers:

6.5-inch Two-Way In-Wall Loudspeaker (Cat. No. SGI65-00W)
• 6.5-inch Kevlar composite cone low-frequency transducer
• .5-inch AeroNylon dome high-frequency transducer with
phase/time alignment guide
• 2-way balanced precision crossover network with
AutoSurge circuit protection
Frequency Response: 50-20kHz +/- 3dB
Sensitivity: 88.0 dB SPL @ 1Watt/
1 Meter
Power Handling: 120W peak/60W RMS
Impedance: Nominal 8 Ohms/Minimum 6 Ohms
Physical Dimensions and Weight:
Height: 12.31 in/312.8 mm
Width: 9.02 in/229 mm
Depth: 3.20 in/81.28 mm
Weight: 7.3 lbs

What receiver do I need do I need to power all 4 of them? Is this one good enough?

Thanks in advance!

Last edited by glancealot; 12-06-2014 at 09:07 AM.
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post #2 of 18 Old 12-06-2014, 08:03 AM
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At this time, do you own anything else besides the in-wall speakers? What kind of TV?

It's typical that a home theater includes left, center, and right speakers that are set up in front to create the soundstage for the TV, then 2, 4 or even more speakers such as in-wall speakers that would make up the surround sound setup.
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post #3 of 18 Old 12-06-2014, 08:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave in Houston View Post
At this time, do you own anything else besides the in-wall speakers? What kind of TV?

It's typical that a home theater includes left, center, and right speakers that are set up in front to create the soundstage for the TV, then 2, 4 or even more speakers such as in-wall speakers that would make up the surround sound setup.
I don't really have anything else besides those 4 in-wall speakers. Not even speaker cables.

I don't have a good TV but plan to buy a good one sometime in 2015.
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post #4 of 18 Old 12-06-2014, 08:48 AM
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What is the program material you want to play now? Cable or satellite, Blu-ray or DVD, streaming video or ?? Do you have the device you need to play you desired program material?

As far as the audio system, my suggestion would be to set a budget, then look for threads here on AVS at a similar budget level for the left, center, and right (often abbreviated LCR) speakers and the receiver. I have a new receiver but my speakers are decades old, so I'm not the best qualified to make speaker recommendations.

Have fun!
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post #5 of 18 Old 12-06-2014, 08:57 AM - Thread Starter
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For online streaming like netflix through my computer to TV.

I was not planning to buy new speakers, I figured 4 speakers should be enough for my house.

I just need someone to point me to the right receiver.

Also, do I need a subwoofer?
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post #6 of 18 Old 12-06-2014, 09:24 AM
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Starting with 4 in-wall speakers is an unconventional way to buy an audio system. How did you happen to make that decision? Have you already installed the speakers in the wall?

The fun in watching video on a surround sound system is hearing a car drive across the front of your room, or a helicopter circling behind you. To get those effects, you have to think about speaker placement.

Have you thought about how to get the streaming video to your receiver and TV? You'll probably need a receiver with network capabilities, unless you plan to locate the receiver adjacent to the computer.

You won't need a subwoofer to hear a car drive across the front of your room, but you will need one if you want to feel the explosions when you watch "Pearl Harbor."

It would help to know your expectations and your budget.
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post #7 of 18 Old 12-06-2014, 09:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Those speakers were on sale for dirt cheap and free shipping, so I picked up 4. They are not in the wall yet.

I just need someone to point me towards some receivers that could handle 4 of them and I can shop around for a good deal.

My expectation is not high for now, so let's start with some basic ones.
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post #8 of 18 Old 12-06-2014, 10:05 AM
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You could install two in front on either side of the TV, then the other two on either side of the listening position and just above ear level. Then all you would need for a surround system is a center speaker which isn't normally wall mounted and a sub. Entry level surround receivers are very reasonable. Buy some speaker wire pretty cheap from Monoprice and you're in business for TV, Netflix, DVD/BD.
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post #9 of 18 Old 12-06-2014, 10:45 AM
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How about this one:

http://www.accessories4less.com/make...specifications

You won't need 7.1 sound at least at the beginning, but you do own 4 surround-like speakers, so you may want to do it in the future. It's network capable, too.

This one is refurbished, but I think you can get a brand new one of $100 more.

Personally, I like Denon better than Onkyo, but this Onkyo has wifi:

http://www.amazon.com/Onkyo-TX-NR626.../dp/B00BLGUKDE

Have fun!
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post #10 of 18 Old 12-06-2014, 04:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave in Houston View Post
...but this Onkyo has wifi...
Thanks for all of the replies.

Quick question, by wifi you mean: I still have to physically connect the receiver with the in-wall speakers (because these speakers need not only sound input, but power), but the feed into the receiver can be wireless/bluetooth, right?

Also, all of the receivers that you guys linked can handle those 4 speakers with no problem right? how do I check?
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post #11 of 18 Old 12-06-2014, 09:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glancealot View Post
Thanks for all of the replies.

Quick question, by wifi you mean: I still have to physically connect the receiver with the in-wall speakers (because these speakers need not only sound input, but power), but the feed into the receiver can be wireless/bluetooth, right?

Also, all of the receivers that you guys linked can handle those 4 speakers with no problem right? how do I check?
Yes, you need to physically connect the speakers. You can stream from wirelessly from your PC. I don't know all the details about how to get video to your PC over the wirelessly, because personally, I only stream music. I use dedicated bluray and satellite devices for the video.

Any moderate receiver will drive the speakers you mentioned to reasonable levels. It takes about 15 watts to get them to the level of sound you would hear when riding a motorcycle. If you want to play them at the volume you hear in the movie thater, you need to start with bigger speakers, including a subwoofer.

If you can manage to get a cat5 cable to the location of your receiver, I would choose the Denon. Though it doesn't have wifi, it has Pandora and other internet radio built in. The wired internet is faster and more reliable anyway.
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post #12 of 18 Old 12-06-2014, 09:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glancealot View Post
I bought 4 in wall speakers:

6.5-inch Two-Way In-Wall Loudspeaker (Cat. No. SGI65-00W)
• 6.5-inch Kevlar composite cone low-frequency transducer
• .5-inch AeroNylon dome high-frequency transducer with
phase/time alignment guide
• 2-way balanced precision crossover network with
AutoSurge circuit protection
Frequency Response: 50-20kHz +/- 3dB
Sensitivity: 88.0 dB SPL @ 1Watt/
1 Meter
The sensitivity of these speakers is relatively low so they are unlikely to blow you away with the loudness, especially with only four of them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by glancealot View Post
Power Handling: 120W peak/60W RMS
Impedance: Nominal 8 Ohms/Minimum 6 Ohms
The HT-R2295 sources an honest 80wpc into 8 ohms and is nearly ideally matched to the power handling and impedance of these speakers.

The HT-R2295 has 5ampx120volt=600watt power consumption minus 70 watt no-sound power consumption = 530watt total power available for the amplifiers, of which a theoretical maximum of about 70% is available to drive speakers or 530x0.7=371 watts total available over all driven channels, divided by 4 channels =93 watts per channel so even with 4 channels driven it still has plenty of power supply to drive your four speakers...

...but adding a center channel or another set of surround or height speakers (or both) to increase your channel count will not really get you any more loudness and could result in some situations where the total loudness in the full surround stage when all channels are driven hard cannot keep up with the loudness capability of a single channel. Not likely to cause you any undue concern unless you really crave loudness. Every receiver has this inherent limitation. They never source the rated power into all channels simultaneously unless it is just a stereo receiver. The only way around this limitation is to use external amplification and I suspect you will not care anyway so it does not matter that the HT-R2295 has no preamp out for anything but the subwoofer.

The HT-R2295 has Audyssey 2EQ that is inferior room calibration because it does no EQ on the critical subwoofer channel. You should definitely use a subwoofer to take some load off the receiver and wall speakers and improve the bass extension, the difference is dramatic, and you should either make it a very flat subwoofer such as an SVS or should buy a better receiver with better EQ in one of the MultEQ versions of Audyssey (or equivalent) that EQs the subwoofer too.

Finally, the HT-R2295 is an Onkyo receiver. Onkyo has a history of HDMI failures that occur within the first 5 years and sometimes as little as 1 year. I personally own 6 failed Onkyo receivers of nearly all their HDMI vintages and spread over years of manufacture, including one that is relatively new. If you buy from an authorized reseller (check the Onkyo web site for a list) they might repair the HDMI for free if you complain loudly enough even if it is out of warranty, but still it is not the best plan to budget for a repair when buying new equipment IMO...

...and if you buy it used from a private party you might be out of luck on the free repairs entirely, like me.

Some people claim that Onkyo has addressed this issue already with better power management in the HDMI but I am of the opinion (based on my experiences) that such measures have only made the problem somewhat less severe than it used to be. IMO the issue is that their backplane is just too hot and crowded and it kills the electrolytic capacitors eventually. They could improve the power consumption or the cooling or the parts they use but so far it seems they have not solved the problem.

Ultimately you have to make a decision between price and quality. I am fine repairing my own receiver so I decide on price alone. YMMV.
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post #13 of 18 Old 12-06-2014, 09:26 PM
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FYI, the approach described in this thread would be considered a more conventional way to decide on the total system.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-spe...er-system.html
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post #14 of 18 Old 12-07-2014, 07:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CherylJosie View Post
The HT-R2295 sources an honest 80wpc into 8 ohms and is nearly ideally matched to the power handling and impedance of these speakers.

The HT-R2295 has 5ampx120volt=600watt power consumption minus 70 watt no-sound power consumption = 530watt total power available for the amplifiers, of which a theoretical maximum of about 70% is available to drive speakers or 530x0.7=371 watts total available over all driven channels, divided by 4 channels =93 watts per channel so even with 4 channels driven it still has plenty of power supply to drive your four speakers...
This is exactly what I needed! Now I can look at any receiver and calculate if it can power my 4 speakers. What about sub-woofer though: how much wattage should I leave for that, some subwoofers come with their own power supply.

My budget is pretty low, like $400, but I only spent $72 for all four of these in-wall speakers, so I have quite a bit left for receiver/speaker cables/sub-woofer.



I bought a refurbished Denon AVR-E400 for $259!

Thanks all for comments!

Last edited by glancealot; 12-07-2014 at 03:25 PM.
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post #15 of 18 Old 12-07-2014, 06:39 PM
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In general I usually budget one third to half the total system power for the subwoofer. It really depends on the size of the room though and for a better answer you probably need to ask someone with more experience than I have.

My own system can drive ~500 watts from the 9.1 receiver so it can actually drive 4 speakers to nearly full rated continuous power, plus another ~260W from an external stereo amp for the other two speakers of the 11.1 system, and 300 watts each from its two subwoofers so I have approximately 750W over 11 channels plus 600W over 2 subs, but I also have a stereo system at 100WPC i.e. 200W plus a 100W sub that sounds just fine at full output.

Never had the occasion to turn up the 11.1 because I live in an apartment and I am not planning on moving out any time soon so best not to create a disturbance.

I made my choices based on price and performance, not loudness, like you did, so used equipment all around allowed me to build 11.1 with six towers dual sub TV/stand and modular sofa for 850 receiver +540 subs +400 surround towers/center +350 front towers +100 wides +50 heights +300 tv +100 stand +800 modular sofa +100 amp +2000 HTPC/NAS +400 misc (package deal parts not used in the system, wire, hardware, glue for repairs, etc) ~$6000 but I had to spend 2 years or more looking on Craigslist and Ebay to do it and I had to repair many broken things along the way.
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post #16 of 18 Old 12-07-2014, 09:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Wow, $6000!
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post #17 of 18 Old 12-07-2014, 09:26 PM
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I would use the in wall speakers as surrounds.
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post #18 of 18 Old 12-08-2014, 09:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Picked up 250 feet of 14 gauge speaker wire and 5 pairs of banana plugs for $70.

Isn't it sad that these cost as much as those 4 in-wall speakers?

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