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post #691 of 1010 Old 08-17-2016, 08:12 AM - Thread Starter
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First Measurements

First off a HUGE thanks to @Fattykidd for coming over last night and knocking some sense into me. You have really helped get this system to where it is today.
Yes I tend to get a little panicky..... after three years (when this first became a glimmer in my eye) I was stressing that all this work would be for a system that sounded like a turd...... happy to say that it does not.... sure there is room for tweaking and improvement....but hat were some of the fun begins

I have to say that the initial measurement look pretty darn good to my untrained eye. Hope they show what people need for comments, if not let me know and I will see what I can do.
As some of you know this is with no treatments at all.... only soft surfaces are the furniture, carpet and me.

Tweeks done last night, berrys got a 2mS delay to smooth a null in the 50-80 range, speakers sizes (front where large although I thought I double checked that), XO's were adjusted.... audyssey had them all over.... can't remember the others

All SPL no smoothing


2 sub waterfall....


Left full range NOTE +1 gain on subs in the Marantz (just realized this morning that we didn't get a full sweep without the gain) 1/6th smoothing


Left full sweep waterfall..... this one kinda surprised me.... I thought I would have a bigger mess at the higher Hz



On another note my system hit reference last night for the first time.... fattykidd broke the theaters cherry by cranking up some heavy bass track (ghost something or another)..... IT WAS AWSOME
21's where on occasion 2 lights on the berry's and the Mackies held strong with room to spare..... also surprised I did not hear any rattles from the room / ceiling



Thanks for following along
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post #692 of 1010 Old 08-17-2016, 08:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waterboy77 View Post
First off a HUGE thanks to @Fattykidd for coming over last night and knocking some sense into me. You have really helped get this system to where it is today.
Yes I tend to get a little panicky..... after three years (when this first became a glimmer in my eye) I was stressing that all this work would be for a system that sounded like a turd...... happy to say that it does not.... sure there is room for tweaking and improvement....but hat were some of the fun begins

I have to say that the initial measurement look pretty darn good to my untrained eye. Hope they show what people need for comments, if not let me know and I will see what I can do.
As some of you know this is with no treatments at all.... only soft surfaces are the furniture, carpet and me.

Tweeks done last night, berrys got a 2mS delay to smooth a null in the 50-80 range, speakers sizes (front where large although I thought I double checked that), XO's were adjusted.... audyssey had them all over.... can't remember the others

All SPL no smoothing

2 sub waterfall....


Left full range NOTE +1 gain on subs in the Marantz (just realized this morning that we didn't get a full sweep without the gain) 1/6th smoothing


Left full sweep waterfall..... this one kinda surprised me.... I thought I would have a bigger mess at the higher Hz



On another note my system hit reference last night for the first time.... fattykidd broke the theaters cherry by cranking up some heavy bass track (ghost something or another)..... IT WAS AWSOME
21's where on occasion 2 lights on the berry's and the Mackies held strong with room to spare..... also surprised I did not hear any rattles from the room / ceiling



Thanks for following along
Such exciting stuff right here! I can't wait until I'm at this point.

Staying tuned for the experienced to chime in with comments
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post #693 of 1010 Old 08-17-2016, 10:25 AM
 
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Fist bump bro.. Put your pants back on, enough of the mushy ****..lol.
Don't forget I'm pretty squishy too, didn't get the "fatty" name for any other reason than the keg I carry around..lol

Name of the song is
Ghosts n stuff (nero remix) by Deadmau5
It's one of my go to tracks to test my subs.

I'm interested to see what those mackies can do with a good 200watts or so from an external amp..they sounded very good last night. Stayed composed even at the high volume.
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post #694 of 1010 Old 08-17-2016, 10:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fattykidd View Post
Fist bump bro.. Put your pants back on, enough of the mushy ****..lol.
Don't forget I'm pretty squishy too, didn't get the "fatty" name for any other reason than the keg I carry around..lol

Name of the song is
Ghosts n stuff (nero remix) by Deadmau5
It's one of my go to tracks to test my subs.

I'm interested to see what those mackies can do with a good 200watts or so from an external amp..they sounded very good last night. Stayed composed even at the high volume.
Haha.... just take the compliment already LOL.... ya Fist bump bro

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post #695 of 1010 Old 08-18-2016, 05:08 PM
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internet blew up earlier while trying to reply. :-)

response looks great, particularly in the bass. no real obvious problems. are all the room treatments up yet?


once those are all in place, then dialing in an eq curve that you like is probably the next step. that is one where there isn't a 'right answer' so you will just have to experiment a bit in order to see what you like. my guess is a little more midbass but other than that, pretty close.


this is the synthesis target curve, but what you like is really what *you* like. once the big resonances are knocked down and the liveliness of the room is sufficiently damped to the point where dialog is highly intelligible, it is kind of down to personal preference, though on average most folks prefer a slight down angle across the spectrum when measured with a log sweep.





-----------


"Name of the song is
Ghosts n stuff (nero remix) by Deadmau5"


even during those sine wave-like bass drops, there is about 10-11db of peak to average spl. somebody appears to still have some idea what they are doing. :-)


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post #696 of 1010 Old 08-18-2016, 06:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post
internet blew up earlier while trying to reply. :-)

response looks great, particularly in the bass. no real obvious problems. are all the room treatments up yet?


once those are all in place, then dialing in an eq curve that you like is probably the next step. that is one where there isn't a 'right answer' so you will just have to experiment a bit in order to see what you like. my guess is a little more midbass but other than that, pretty close.


this is the synthesis target curve, but what you like is really what *you* like. once the big resonances are knocked down and the liveliness of the room is sufficiently damped to the point where dialog is highly intelligible, it is kind of down to personal preference, though on average most folks prefer a slight down angle across the spectrum when measured with a log sweep.
Thanks for the feed back LTD02
No treatments yet..... just the bare room and cavity. I wanted to get a baseline measurement before starting any treatments
Yes everyone has there own desired curve, I need to play around to see what mine is

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post #697 of 1010 Old 08-26-2016, 02:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post
internet blew up earlier while trying to reply. :-)

response looks great, particularly in the bass. no real obvious problems. are all the room treatments up yet?


once those are all in place, then dialing in an eq curve that you like is probably the next step. that is one where there isn't a 'right answer' so you will just have to experiment a bit in order to see what you like. my guess is a little more midbass but other than that, pretty close.


this is the synthesis target curve, but what you like is really what *you* like. once the big resonances are knocked down and the liveliness of the room is sufficiently damped to the point where dialog is highly intelligible, it is kind of down to personal preference, though on average most folks prefer a slight down angle across the spectrum when measured with a log sweep.





-----------


"Name of the song is
Ghosts n stuff (nero remix) by Deadmau5"


even during those sine wave-like bass drops, there is about 10-11db of peak to average spl. somebody appears to still have some idea what they are doing. :-)


wow, I'm not even sure what I'm looking at but would give it an A (nice smooth line no obvious peaks/dips). Is this normal response chart for un-treated rooms? Thinking no way?
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post #698 of 1010 Old 08-26-2016, 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by ddigler View Post
wow, I'm not even sure what I'm looking at but would give it an A (nice smooth line no obvious peaks/dips). Is this normal response chart for un-treated rooms? Thinking no way?

just one example of a target curve. in that case it is for jbl synthesis (which is their top of the line home audio system). my guess is those particular response curves include dsp, multiple position averaging, and room treatments.
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post #699 of 1010 Old 08-30-2016, 08:59 AM - Thread Starter
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The not really an update... update.
Progress has been very slow...... that's it

One day I will start the new theater....... one day..... THAT DAY HAS ARRIVED
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post #700 of 1010 Old 08-30-2016, 08:36 PM
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The not really an update... update.
Progress has been very slow...... that's it
Lol. Well what's the hold up?
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post #701 of 1010 Old 08-30-2016, 09:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Lol. Well what's the hold up?
LOL.... camping and hard days working on a job site... to tired when I get home....
long weekend coming up to hopefully hammer some stuff out
Keep up the good work on yours!!!

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post #702 of 1010 Old 09-03-2016, 09:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Big plans to get substantially completed this long weekend.....
Rock wall fully completed Last night...... REALLY HAPPY with how it looks

To Do:
Last fabric panel for right side of screen wall
Put insulation in columns and place all panels
Install spandex on screen frame and install (white is in the washing machine right now)
Mount Projector and align
base board touch up painting
Watch Star Wars......

To Do Latter:
measurements
Install insulation behind screen
Measure
LED Lights one day in crown molding and around screen
Rack, organize and front panels
Figure out some IR repeating
Atmos
Nearfield Subs
.............like they say a theater is never really done

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post #703 of 1010 Old 09-06-2016, 07:39 AM - Thread Starter
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DONE ish
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post #704 of 1010 Old 09-06-2016, 11:33 AM
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Just gunna leave us hanging like that without any proof? :P
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post #705 of 1010 Old 09-06-2016, 12:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Just gunna leave us hanging like that without any proof? :P
LMAO...... Yup.... Projector and screen are up so project finished.....jk
To busy watching movies to get out a good camera and try and take pictures.


Watched:
Star Wars - The Force Awakens - really liked it
Watchmen - second time, dark and gritty love it
Barbie - Rockin Royals - what can I say I have a 6 yr old girl LOL
The Wolf of Wall Street - not bad


Having trouble with my PS3 not connecting up and loosing signal..... fortunately I was able to get through Star Wars without interruption


Hope to get some pics up tonight

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post #706 of 1010 Old 09-06-2016, 01:52 PM
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Woot!! Can't wait to see the finished (For now) product.
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post #707 of 1010 Old 09-06-2016, 07:15 PM - Thread Starter
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DONEish pictures

This project has had some ups and downs but I finally made it through construction
Now all the tweeking and set up...... I'll probably spend more hours on that that the build

Here are some not so great quality pictures of the DONEish space...... hope to get my good camera out one day.... or talk my boss (great photographer) into talking a couple pictures. But for now here she is

Here is the screen wall with the 124" spandex (white over Black) and the rock wall.... Thanks for the inspiration @deewan
One comment this weekend was how real the rock looks..... she couldn't believe is was rigid foam


Side shot of the screen. Here you can see the mitered corner that I did to wrap the rock around the corner and the fabric AT access panel
Eventually the screen will get LED light around is in the space between the rock and the screen
Screen build picture to follow.....


toward the back of the room.... ya ya I have some more clean up to do....
And the mic is waiting to run some post screen and column insulation measurments


Couple other shots




This peerless mount was a dream to work with.... I have a couple minor tweeks but WOW was it easy to use.
The Epson.... not as much.... don't get me wrong I loved the settings that are available.... vertical and horizontal lens shift that is huge but the knobs are to course in the adjustment and with the little bit of movement in the mount it made it more difficult.... but still very doable. I was so close to center on the horizontal lense shift that I kept fighting with the "zero" position that is a dead spot...... Guess my measurement here spot on
I am seeing some projector shake when the child gets rodeoing around up stairs..... time will tell if it will bug me enough to make a modification


I only remembered to snap a picture of the one column.... but two of the others are similar in that they are filled with ruxol
The back left three sided panel didn't get any as it would have been a nightmare to do
We will see with measurements if it did anything



Thanks for following along


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post #708 of 1010 Old 09-07-2016, 06:49 AM
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Good looking room. I had checked in about a week ago and just about made the comment, "It didn't happen if there aren't any pics". Well, you've remedied that issue.

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Marantz 8805 (Emotiva RMC in a box) | JVC X790R | Emotiva XPA-5 | Emotiva XPA 4-3s | Oppo 203 | DIYSG 1099 | DIYSG Volt 8 | DIYSG Volt 6 | SVS PC-4000 | Seymour UF 132"
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post #709 of 1010 Old 09-07-2016, 06:58 AM
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post #710 of 1010 Old 09-07-2016, 07:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Good looking room. I had checked in about a week ago and just about made the comment, "It didn't happen if there aren't any pics". Well, you've remedied that issue.
Thanks Deewan, your comments are always welcome..... even if they are bugging me LOL.
More pictures to come on the screen construction. Pretty proud of myself on how it came out.
I would still love to see a picture of your friends wall with the "slate", I almost went that way...... on second thought maybe I don't

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Sweet room Water, nice job!
Screen wall turned out very nice.
Thanks ddigler, yes the screen wall came out just like I was hoping/envisioning..... still going to do the LED lights around it for the cherry on top

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post #711 of 1010 Old 09-07-2016, 08:43 AM
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Thanks ddigler, yes the screen wall came out just like I was hoping/envisioning..... still going to do the LED lights around it for the cherry on top
That will look very nice.

I am using LED strip lighting for my steps on my riser. I ran 18/5 thermostat wiring in the riser. I have to figure out how to build the controllers and amps and power it all up now lol
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post #712 of 1010 Old 09-07-2016, 09:11 AM - Thread Starter
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That will look very nice.

I am using LED strip lighting for my steps on my riser. I ran 18/5 thermostat wiring in the riser. I have to figure out how to build the controllers and amps and power it all up now lol
Ya I still have to figure all that out also.... so hurry up and get yours figured so I can copy
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post #713 of 1010 Old 09-07-2016, 10:24 AM
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iirc, that was my initial suggestion for you. just a different approach. packing them in like that essentially turns the wall into mush, which is one way to reduce the modal reflections.


one of his threads is here: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...ss-xxls12.html


post 39 shows the before and after measurements with the rockwool.
I'm thinking about doing the same treatment along my back wall. For the purpose in which the insulation stays in the bag, is Rockwool worth the expense, or would cellulose or pink fluffy be just as good?
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post #714 of 1010 Old 09-07-2016, 01:11 PM
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Nicely done! I really like the way your front wall turned out.
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post #715 of 1010 Old 09-07-2016, 01:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Nicely done! I really like the way your front wall turned out.
Thanks PTAaron

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post #716 of 1010 Old 09-07-2016, 07:38 PM
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I'm thinking about doing the same treatment along my back wall. For the purpose in which the insulation stays in the bag, is Rockwool worth the expense, or would cellulose or pink fluffy be just as good?

i don't know the answer to that one.


if you haven't seen this, it may be worth reviewing:
http://www.bobgolds.com/AbsorptionCoefficients.htm


depending on how you stack it and the particular lot that you buy, you are probably in the ~9-10" thick ~6 pounds or so per cubic foot ballpark. that is a lot of fiberglass the air has to push through in order to resonate a mode. my guess is that would damp things sufficiently (even with pink fiberglass) and the remainder could be fixed with eq without issue. seems like leaving pink fiberglass in the bag would work kind of like a home made version of 705 (for bass absorption).

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post #717 of 1010 Old 09-07-2016, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post
i don't know the answer to that one.


if you haven't seen this, it may be worth reviewing:
http://www.bobgolds.com/AbsorptionCoefficients.htm


depending on how you stack it and the particular lot that you buy, you are probably in the ~9-10" thick ~6 pounds or so per cubic foot ballpark. that is a lot of fiberglass the air has to push through in order to resonate a mode. my guess is that would damp things sufficiently (even with pink fiberglass) and the remainder could be fixed with eq without issue. seems like leaving pink fiberglass in the bag would work kind of like a home made version of 705 (for bass absorption).
The cellulose that I found at my local lowes and HD is 6.9 pounds per cubic foot in the packaging. My plan was to stack the unopened insulation along the wall a few inches away from the foundation wall all the way to the ceiling in order to calm my lower frequencies. If there really isn't much of a difference between using rockwool, fiberglass or cellulose, I'll go the cheapest route. If I owned a truck, I'd probably just keep the receipt and try all 3 and post the curves. But with only a trunk, that would take way too many trips.
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Rockwork looks incredible. I still have my eye on using that on my stairwell to the basement which right now is painted cinderblock. It would really step it up a lot to get that on there. My concern is the smoothness of the cinderblock and getting good tack to it.
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post #719 of 1010 Old 09-08-2016, 05:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Rockwork looks incredible. I still have my eye on using that on my stairwell to the basement which right now is painted cinderblock. It would really step it up a lot to get that on there. My concern is the smoothness of the cinderblock and getting good tack to it.
Thanks Beast!
Mitering the corners was probably the most time consuming but really to install it was maybe 8-9 hrs...... then about 2 of cleaning up the miters and touch up painting.
The guy where I bought it said others have installed it with PL and I am sure it would hold really good.... my only concern would be trying to glue in the top pieces.... I slid them in from the side and brad nailed them in place..... not sure how you would get PL behind that

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Screen Construction

DIY 124" Spandex Screen
Total Cost ~$270CAD

Frame made out of 1x4 Choice Fir placed on edge with a stiffening piece wrapping the outside edge. Joinery using a Kreg jig, brads and glue. All edges where screen meets wood was sanded to avoid snags
Screen material is white over black spandex held on with screen tight and spline

I decided on Fir as it was the most reasonably price "hardwood" that was deadly straight in the store (Timbermart). Spruce, polar and pine are infamously bad for being warped in some shape or form up here. Oak was double the price.

Frame on edge..... because my screen is floating off the wall I did not want it to be to thick by going with the wood on the flat. However, I also did not want it to be to easily warped or bent...... thus the outer stiffener

Spandex is a great alternative to the manufactured systems and has an excellent picture. I was able to see a grey over black screen in action with the same Epson 5030 projector that I have. Thanks @Fattykidd
I chose White over Black to try and get the white levels a little better than the grey but trying to maintain the blacks.... I think this has been achieved nicely.

Joinery


Outer Stiffener
The addition of this to the outer edge increased the rigidity of the frame. To make this piece I ripped the board to 1 1/2" wide. dadoed out the groove on my table saw and cut back the one side a ~10 degrees to minimize the wood in contact with the spandex. Attached around the outer edge with glue and brads.
The location of the dado is also strategic in that it alows for the screen tigh to be fully hidden from the side. This worked like a dream


Assembled frame


Painted black.... not sure if this was needed but hey I had some..... I can not see the frame at all through spandex
Mounting was done with three "L" shaped brackets screwed to the wall framing..... placed so the screen frame fits snugly in place with a minor smack of the fist. I might adjust this at a later date as it is maybe a little to tight with the fabric on now.... TBD
The vertical piece is 1/8" thick to it does not come in contact with the screen.... lots of pre figuring with the stiffener


Side shot.... yes there is screen tight hiding back there


The black going on



The White.... getting the corners on this layer was much more difficult..... probably cause I was not as concerned with the uniformity of the black layer as the white. getting the stretch right in the corners took a few tries but we got it. I also think the further distance to the second track and as a result more fabric to deal with was a major factor in the difficulty

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"If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy." Red Green
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