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post #1 of 15 Old 09-08-2016, 11:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Family Room Surround Advice

Hi all - building a new home and installing a 5.1 system in the family room and saving a bigger and better system for the theater room to be built later on.

Looking for advice on which equipment is recommended in my price range of all in around $1,000.
I know I need new (white) speakers (5) to be mounted.
I have a powered sub from onkyo I plan to use, from this kit (HT-S9400THX)
I have an older Onkyo receiver but it is not Bluetooth and I plan to place in adjacent room to free up space in family room, from kit above.
I have 65" 4k TV.

Looking for recommendations on:
White small speakers to keep a clean look in family room but that have good sound and fill the large room (20x16, open to kitchen on one side).
Thoughts on using my current powered sub as apposed to new unit.
Ability to update receiver to Bluetooth or replace with another unit. (or other options to get signal to hidden receiver)
Universal Bluetooth remote to work with comcast/verizion fios/receiver.

Thanks for your help.
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post #2 of 15 Old 09-12-2016, 08:02 AM
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getting them in white might actually be the more complicated part of this process - although, in keeping a wife happy I see why white is needed.

I'm assuming you're not looking for in-wall.

Home Theater Direct sells On-Wall speakers that you can get a white "sock" for. They have options that could work for what you're trying to do.

You might push by your $1000 budget a little bit but its the only place I can think of that carries white speakers. Others might have more insight on that.
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post #3 of 15 Old 09-12-2016, 08:53 AM
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The SVS Prime Satellite system is a great bang for your buck, but it might push you over your $1000 budget by a couple hundred dollars. It comes in a 5.1 package for $1000, but the piano gloss white finish is an extra $200. Or if you want to stick with the sub you've got now you can purchase the satellites individually in the piano gloss white for $175 a pop and that would keep you within budget.
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post #4 of 15 Old 09-12-2016, 09:02 AM
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Polk owm5 come in white. Rel subs come in white
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post #5 of 15 Old 09-12-2016, 09:09 AM
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Assuming
* $1k is top end, you don't want to be talked out of it,
* You want most bang for buck (e.g., you know that $125 in-walls are unlikely to sound as good as $125 bookshelf/on-walls)
* You want to do Family Room all-at-once (not $850 on speakers now, then $500 on AVR or Sub in 3 years)
* Your receiver works
* your Family Room is mainly for TV/Cable, you don't want to spend a lot of time on it

Polk Audio OWM5
SVS SB/PB 1000
BAFX 54-5EXN-SYMF (IR Repeater - Remote control extender)
25-foot headphone extension cable (3.5mm Jack, Male to Female ends)

For my personal preferences in my open-space family room (no critical watching, just cable TV and netflix), I have greatly preferred teaming "ok" speakers with a strong sealed sub. I have upgraded speakers now, and bought 2 excellent subs...but it's been diminishing returns. I got the most bang for my $100 having a nice sub with ok speakers.

I'd like to talk you into the HTD's since they're likely to better integrate with the sub -- but you'd be at $1300. But then you're either over $1k, or willing to do do phased approach (I'd change my recommendations, as likely every responder would also).

The BAFX product allows me to store all of my kit in a different room, and I control everything with harmony 650.
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post #6 of 15 Old 09-12-2016, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nate Miller View Post
getting them in white might actually be the more complicated part of this process - although, in keeping a wife happy I see why white is needed.

I'm assuming you're not looking for in-wall.

Home Theater Direct sells On-Wall speakers that you can get a white "sock" for. They have options that could work for what you're trying to do.

You might push by your $1000 budget a little bit but its the only place I can think of that carries white speakers. Others might have more insight on that.
Hmm..looks like we pretty much have the same size and layout If you are open for in-ceiling install I can share what I did. For mine, I used HTD speakers (ceiling mounted) for cleaner look and my wife couldn't be happier. The front left, center and right speakers are the ones that are angled (HDR65Aim) and regular in-ceiling for my rears (HD-R65). Total cost of speakers were about $350. My house is a 2 level and have to do some wiring work in-ceiling but totally worth it (if you have an attic above you're golden). I've received compliments on the speaker sounds and have friends scratching their heads where is the sound coming from, they thought it was from the TV (Sony 79XRB900) but no way the sound is room filling and only coming from the TV speakers That's when I point to the ceiling and tell them speakers are ceiling mounted. The HTD aims are a revelation, totally changed my perception about in-ceiling speakers. The set-up is great for movies and music (not an audiophile though). I'm using Onkyo 525 ($150) cheap receiver from black friday sales but works great with Spotify for music, there may be new models out now with built-in bluetooth for the same price. I also re-used my old Onkyo 606 receiver as Zone 2 to power 4 in-ceiling speakear around the house for piped-in music (again speakrs are from HTD!). The sub was re-used from my old Onkyo S7100 (HT-SR606), it's ok for now, used Rocketfish wireless so I can move the sub to it's optimal position wirelessly. For the remote, I'm currently using Harmony Elite ($100 off after trading in crapped out Harmony 550 remote). I like the Harmony as it uses RF not IR so I don't have to point the remote to the TV/receiver etc to engage, also my components are all hidden but off the side. I'm pretty sure it will work even at the backside of the wall, (may need a spot for the RF modules). Also, the Harmony works off Wifi, hint i can power up my TV remotely (ie. away from home or on vacation) using smart phone app to make the impression there are people inside the house. I don't think you need Elite version, any Harmony with HUB should work. Hope this helps

Here's a link from my older post about the in-ceiling speakers.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-spe...l#post40354522

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post #7 of 15 Old 09-12-2016, 09:33 AM
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Take a look at the Bowers & Wilkins M-1 speakers. I have five of these in white for a surround sound set up, and it works pretty well.
1. They come in white
2. They are relatively small but well built so the sound is nice
3. Matching speakers at all 5 points for better consistency
4. Can't remember how much the M-1 speakers cost (I got mine more than 5 years ago and still going strong). The associated sub (PV1) is the expensive part, so if you use your existing sub I think you might be able to hit your price point.


The M1s are inconspicuous by themselves. If that's not good enough, you can easily remove them and store them in a cabinet. They have wall mounting brackets where you just loosen a single hex head screw with an allen key. Once the speakers are down, there is just a 1" x 1" white mounting bracket that looks neat because it has a nice cover over it (i.e. it doesn't look like a stamped metal bracket). Check out the manual, it explains the system which is pretty slick.
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post #8 of 15 Old 09-12-2016, 09:45 AM
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For future Home Theater Room suggestions

I have a dedicated home theater room that's 24' x 12' that has evolved over the last 7 years to what it is now. Initially I started with a 9.2 Yamaha receiver and added surround speakers over the years. In the beginning I was not getting the same experience as in an iMax movie theater with its surround sound effects. I kept adding speakers to the front left & right ceiling. then the rear surround speakers, etc. Having only one Velodyne 15" subwoofer in the left front corner was just not producing the deep thumping sound of low bass I felt in the theaters. I decided to add another Velodyne 15" to the right front corner. Much better, but still not the wall shaking sound I expected. I'm an MSEE and in electronics all my life. Knowing that to produce low frequency sounds, a lot of air has to be moved to be heard and felt. Then I decided to add two more Velodyne 15" to each of the rear left & right corners. Wow! What a difference. Over the next few years I bought four more Velodyne 15" subs to stack on top of the existing ones. This was the ultimate in low frequency bass where now I felt the experience as in the theaters!

The important part is to have all your subs self powered. No receiver will have enough output power to drive any subwoofer, let alone multiple. Also make sure they are phased correctly.
My theory was correct! You have to move a lot of air to achieve the feeling of what the theater sounds have. Good thing I live in a single family house with insulated walls ;-).

BTW, if you can manage it, buy the Sharp Aquos 90" LCD TV. Forget the 4k feature of newest TVs. It will be many years before the material will be available to take advantage of 4k resolution and your eye resolution will not be able to tell the difference anyway. When I bought my 80" the 90" was not yet available. As luck would have it, it came out about 1 year after I got my 80". Don't let them tell you that you don't need anything larger than 65". The full immersion of watching a movie is not realized until it's on a large screen. The majority thinking is that you should have your field of vision from left to right completely filled with the image. Why do you think iMax is so polular?
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post #9 of 15 Old 09-12-2016, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 307racing View Post
Hi all - building a new home and installing a 5.1 system in the family room and saving a bigger and better system for the theater room to be built later on.

Looking for advice on which equipment is recommended in my price range of all in around $1,000.
I know I need new (white) speakers (5) to be mounted.
I have a powered sub from onkyo I plan to use, from this kit (HT-S9400THX)
I have an older Onkyo receiver but it is not Bluetooth and I plan to place in adjacent room to free up space in family room, from kit above.
I have 65" 4k TV.

Looking for recommendations on:
White small speakers to keep a clean look in family room but that have good sound and fill the large room (20x16, open to kitchen on one side).
Thoughts on using my current powered sub as apposed to new unit.
Ability to update receiver to Bluetooth or replace with another unit. (or other options to get signal to hidden receiver)
Universal Bluetooth remote to work with comcast/verizion fios/receiver.

Thanks for your help.
The Q Acoustics 3000 Series 5.1 Cinema Pack is in your price range in black. Look at qacoustics.com for the US site.

Until just recently Q Acoustics was not available in the US and no one in the UK would ship them to US. I did find a dealer in Milan, Italy who does ship them and I got a pair of the same front speakers in the system that way. I love them especially for the price. Now that they are here, you can get them in the US but there is one problem for you. The US site shows it only in black. The UK site (http://www.qacoustics.co.uk/3000-ser...inema-pack.htm) shows them in several finishes including gloss white. You could call the US seller and see if white is coming here.

A review of the system from a well respected UK audio magazine is at http://www.whathifi.com/q-acoustics/...yJbgzhQIcjx.99

Last edited by ocostich; 09-12-2016 at 12:34 PM.
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post #10 of 15 Old 09-12-2016, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 307racing View Post
Hi all - building a new home and installing a 5.1 system in the family room and saving a bigger and better system for the theater room to be built later on.

Looking for advice on which equipment is recommended in my price range of all in around $1,000.
I know I need new (white) speakers (5) to be mounted.
I have a powered sub from onkyo I plan to use, from this kit (HT-S9400THX)
I have an older Onkyo receiver but it is not Bluetooth and I plan to place in adjacent room to free up space in family room, from kit above.
I have 65" 4k TV.

Looking for recommendations on:
White small speakers to keep a clean look in family room but that have good sound and fill the large room (20x16, open to kitchen on one side).
Thoughts on using my current powered sub as apposed to new unit.
Ability to update receiver to Bluetooth or replace with another unit. (or other options to get signal to hidden receiver)
Universal Bluetooth remote to work with comcast/verizion fios/receiver.

Thanks for your help.
If you can budge on anything, I'd suggest budging on the color white. Your options at that price point are very limited in white. In black,you have some very nice-sounding speakers as options at or very close to your price point, including Pioneer SP-BS22-LR, a fantastic bookshelf (I own pair, full disclosure) or the Atmos-enabled SP-BS22A-LR, which is even better. With either of those speakers, you could use a single speaker as your center channel, or spring for the regular center.

If it were my room, that size and budget, I'd push for 4 SP-BS22A-LR and add the matching center, using your existing sub.

Just be sure to experiment a lot with positioning the sub. Looks like a good spot from your schematic, but in my experience, sub placement is extremely idiosyncratic and there's no substitute for sitting in the sweet spot and moving the sub around while testing with a measurement device or the best measurement device on earth (your ears). A good cheap way to do this is to use a sine wave tone from the internet that goes down to the lower octaves and just play it on your system, via a smart phone or tablet. If you have a bass null at the sweet spot, you'll hear it, and can adjust the sub placement accordingly until you minimize the null.

That to me is the most challenging aspect of setting up a home theater, good speakers or bad. And if you sacrificed your white speaker needs and go the Pioneers, you'd have a really wonderful setup for both movies and music.

Sticking to white speakers, your options are a lot more limited. Most on wall speakers have super high cutoff points and personally, I would not mess with them. You could try Gallo Orbs - or some of the other Gallos. I've heard those before in a similar sized room and they handled HT duties well. Would not want them for any critical music listening because of the high cutoff.

If you are dead set on white, suggest you listen to the KEF Q series. It may push over your budget, but at Accessories4less the KEFs regularly come up for sale. They make a very nice sounding set of bookshelves, and you can use a bookshelf or dedicated center. Could get the larger bookshelf for the mains, smaller for rears.

"These go to eleven."

Equipment: Goldenear Triton Ones, SuperCenter XXL, Aon 2 surrounds, Invisa 650 ceiling speakers, Oppo BD 103d, Marantz 7702 mk2, Outlaw 2200 M-block (2) & 7125 7-channel, Roku 4, Sonos, and way too many old speakers, including an original pair of Ascend Acoustics CBM-170s, one of the flattest frequency bookshelf speakers SoundStage ever measured.
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post #11 of 15 Old 09-12-2016, 06:10 PM
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Hi,

My area of expertise is video display calibration but I thought I would look at your situation because AVS included your situation in an email. I hope I do not offend but I do have some concerns.

First, the sitting arrangements are not specified. I noticed that you have a fireplace on the opposite wall. TVs are to be placed so that the eye of the viewer is midpoint (centered), of the screen. The worst place is to place the television is above the fireplace. The heat from the fireplace is damaging and the polarizing condition of the screen itself will render a poorer image (due to the TV being at a higher angle). Ergonomically, when the TV is high it will wear on your neck which will result in discomfort. In all classic illustrations of system set ups the viewer is always in the centered location. Sitting off angled to the display does diminish the image but the result is hard to detect unless you know what you are looking for.

May I suggest that you consider getting a matching sub-woofer off of Ebay. Place one sub in front along with the TV and the other in the back. There are many good videos on you-tube that illustrate how to set up a sub-woofer as well as multiple sub-woofers. This will give you a 5.2 system. You will find that this will improve the sound substantially. If you take my suggestion to heart but decide to purchase new subs make sure they are a matched set. Here is a [
] that may interest you.

Are you using an IR Blaster to control the receiver? Placing your components in another room will keep the family room looking less cluttered in the family room. You may want to look at Logitech universal remotes that allows for RF control. These remotes can also be used to control other house hold items such as lighting and curtains. Here is one possible suggestion [ LINK ] that is economical and will give you full control of components located in hidden places. Such remotes allow for a one touch operation. This will result in only one remote that only requires a single touch of a button to do multiple functions. Another [
].

Since the house is being built, consider running the speaker wire before the walls have been completed. I can not suggest strongly enough that every speaker wire be equal in length. Unequal wire length can cause extreme issues with sound balance and levels. Here is an example, a receiver with two speakers one with a short wire and the other with a long wire, the speaker with the shorter wire will always be louder. If you consider having your TV in a different location but your receiver where you have illustrated, then consider HDMI over cat 5/6. Running HDMI over long runs will degrade the signal. A 1080p signal over 25 feet can degrade down to 720p. With HDMI over cat 5/6 you can run the video around 300 feet before degrading will occur.

Upon reviewing the other responses to this thread, they have given suggestions to what equipment to purchase. I on the other hand will not, since some things are to personal taste. So much so, that many purchase speakers based on approval. Many times speakers will sound great in a store but sound terrible in your home. Although the equipment is very important, there is another part of the equation and that is the set up.

I know you many not find this of any importance but when you fail to plan, you plan to fail.

Good luck.
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post #12 of 15 Old 09-13-2016, 06:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 307racing View Post
Hi all - building a new home and installing a 5.1 system in the family room and saving a bigger and better system for the theater room to be built later on.

Looking for advice on which equipment is recommended in my price range of all in around $1,000.
I know I need new (white) speakers (5) to be mounted.
I have a powered sub from onkyo I plan to use, from this kit (HT-S9400THX)
I have an older Onkyo receiver but it is not Bluetooth and I plan to place in adjacent room to free up space in family room, from kit above.
I have 65" 4k TV.

Looking for recommendations on:
White small speakers to keep a clean look in family room but that have good sound and fill the large room (20x16, open to kitchen on one side).
Thoughts on using my current powered sub as apposed to new unit.
Ability to update receiver to Bluetooth or replace with another unit. (or other options to get signal to hidden receiver)
Universal Bluetooth remote to work with comcast/verizion fios/receiver.

Thanks for your help.
By Mounting I assume you mean on-wall not in-wall. I have owned Boston Acoutics soundware 5.1 system before and found them to be a wonderful set of speakers with beautiful clear sound. Music was crystal clear and the sub was decent enough in in a room that was around 25 square metres. They come in white, have a few mounting options including wall brackets. a 5.1 set will only set you back $500 leaving money in the pot for a new receiver which includes blue tooth or put towards your home theater room. You could always use your old sub as a second sub which might be good open plan room.

I have tried a few Bluetooth receivers in my time and found android and iOS connect well cheap cheap $5 receivers via the Auxiliary in. However if you have a requirement for windows machines to connect I can recommend the Logitech Bluetooth adapter ($25)

I can recommend in-walls and in-ceilings for a new house build though as they are aesthetically pleasing and sound pretty damn good these days (I may get crucified for saying that here I realise). They are wife friendly, make rooms feel bigger, and add value to your house. You could do something similar to me by putting a 5.1 surround in your living room and run some cables to your morning room to operate as zone 2 (for if/when you upgrade to a 7 channel receiver; you can even switch this zone 2 from the morning room to a set of outdoor speakers using a Niles in-wall speaker switch). Then a Dolby Atmos receiver for your theater room later, be sure to get cables run for speakers (including in the ceiling).

Onkyo TX-NR609 & 5.1 Def Tech DI8R In-Ceilings in open plan living room
Onkyo TX-NR636 & 7.1 Polk Vanishing series In-wall/In-ceilings in Media room
Plex server with 2 x Android S2 players
Polk RC85i speakers in kitchen/dining
Def Tech AW550 outdoor speakers
Niles in-wall speaker switchPanasonic & Samsung HDTVs
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post #13 of 15 Old 09-14-2016, 08:01 AM
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I can recommend in-walls and in-ceilings for a new house build though as they are aesthetically pleasing and sound pretty damn good these days (I may get crucified for saying that here I realise). They are wife friendly, make rooms feel bigger, and add value to your house. You could do something similar to me by putting a 5.1 surround in your living room and run some cables to your morning room to operate as zone 2 (for if/when you upgrade to a 7 channel receiver; you can even switch this zone 2 from the morning room to a set of outdoor speakers using a Niles in-wall speaker switch). Then a Dolby Atmos receiver for your theater room later, be sure to get cables run for speakers (including in the ceiling).
I can recommend in-ceilings with HTD. I had 5.1 set-up with speakers all over from my previous house but I think my in-ceilings in my new home (also bigger room) are on par or even better. My family room still feels like a movie theater after the in-ceilings
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post #14 of 15 Old 09-14-2016, 08:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notbananas View Post
BTW, if you can manage it, buy the Sharp Aquos 90" LCD TV. Forget the 4k feature of newest TVs. It will be many years before the material will be available to take advantage of 4k resolution and your eye resolution will not be able to tell the difference anyway. When I bought my 80" the 90" was not yet available. As luck would have it, it came out about 1 year after I got my 80". Don't let them tell you that you don't need anything larger than 65". The full immersion of watching a movie is not realized until it's on a large screen. The majority thinking is that you should have your field of vision from left to right completely filled with the image. Why do you think iMax is so polular?
Well after we moved to our new house last year, my sights were set on the 90" Sharp, I needed the biggest TV for my family room Lol! But after reading some reviews on here (AVSforums) with 90" dying out or panel problems I went for then next biggest on my list, Sony 79XRB900B. I got it for half the price I would have paid for the 90" Sharp. I usually don't jump on new tech but the TV already came with 4K and 3D capability so I went for it. After comparing 4K content on it, I would say 4K is it. The pictures are just unbelievable. Even the upscaled 1080p looks amazing. I agree there are not a lot of 4K but they're starting to come out now. I watched all 4K Netflix content to the point I finished Breaking Bad (in 4K) in 2-3 weeks! Lol. One thing that I wasn't ready was I could see in detail TV reporters/actors make-up imperfections etc..It's that clear and sharp, I thought at first people's face look weird but it was the higher resolution. I'm also a photographer and my high-resolution photos (shot with Nikon D810) just comes alive on my TV. I was ready to plunk down my money for the next PS4 4K console but Sony foolishly did not include 4K Blu-ray playback, so I'll be looking at XBox One option.
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post #15 of 15 Old 09-20-2016, 07:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks all for the great advice. will review the speaker and receiver options listed above. This is very helpful.
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