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post #1 of 19 Old 05-03-2017, 09:11 PM - Thread Starter
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newbie needs help with TV sound connections

I am an AV-ignorant newbie (and old fart) learning as I go so please bear with me. I hope you can help me. I have an older Bose home entertainment system (102EA-II; PN 175461-03) that has only analogue inputs. On my older TV, I was able to connect RCA cables from the TV to the Bose RCA inputs in the wall (connected to a receiver upstairs), and I got sound simultaneously from the TV's speakers and from the Bose speakers in the ceiling behind the sofa. I am not an audiophile and I was completely satisfied.

My TV died and my new Sony Brava KDL-40650D HDTV does not have RCA audio outputs. It has instead an optical audio out, USB, a headphone jack, and 2 HDMI (both of which are in use). I am told by Sony support that I can not get sound simultaneously from the TV speakers and the external Bose speakers. By connecting a Y cable with RCA inputs to the headphone jack, I can at least get sound from the Bose speakers. So that is where I am...but I would still like to also get sound from the TV area, in a sort of poor man's surround, like I had before, if not from the TV speakers directly then from a) two Boston Acoustics speakers that are hooked up to an older (naturally) Sony receiver that has RCA inputs/outputs only or 2) maybe from a more current soundbar (that i do not as yet own). I should mention that the TV is connected to a cable box via HDMI. The cable box additionally has digital optical, USB, and RCA ports. I connected the cable box RCA outputs to my Sony receiver RCA phono inputs and got TV sound from the Boston speakers, but it was out of sync with the sound from the Bose speakers and sounded terrible. (as an aside, I have also tried using a DAC, both from the TV and from the cable box, but maybe because the TV sound is Dolby and not PCM, it hasn't worked - Sony said it "probably" wouldn't work but I tried anyway - best I got was the same out of sync sound.)

So probably a stupid question, but if I continue to use the headphone jack connection to the Bose speakers, would it be possible to also connect the cable box to a soundbar (via a toslink or USB) and thereby also get sound from the TV area? And if so, would that TV-area sound be in sync with the sound from the Bose speakers or would I have the same out of sync situation?

I hope I am being clear enough. I would certainly appreciate any guidance. Thanks.
Jim
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post #2 of 19 Old 05-03-2017, 09:22 PM
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How are you driving the bose speakers?
I mean if you can connect extra pair of speakers to your receiver and locate them by your TV, that would be your easiest option.
Otherwise you can use option 1. Option 2 will have delay issue.
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post #3 of 19 Old 05-03-2017, 09:30 PM
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Originally Posted by nsrlad View Post
I am an AV-ignorant newbie (and old fart) learning as I go so please bear with me. I hope you can help me. I have an older Bose home entertainment system (102EA-II; PN 175461-03) that has only analogue inputs. On my older TV, I was able to connect RCA cables from the TV to the Bose RCA inputs in the wall (connected to a receiver upstairs), and I got sound simultaneously from the TV's speakers and from the Bose speakers in the ceiling behind the sofa. I am not an audiophile and I was completely satisfied.

My TV died and my new Sony Brava KDL-40650D HDTV does not have RCA audio outputs. It has instead an optical audio out, USB, a headphone jack, and 2 HDMI (both of which are in use). I am told by Sony support that I can not get sound simultaneously from the TV speakers and the external Bose speakers. By connecting a Y cable with RCA inputs to the headphone jack, I can at least get sound from the Bose speakers. So that is where I am...but I would still like to also get sound from the TV area, in a sort of poor man's surround, like I had before, if not from the TV speakers directly then from a) two Boston Acoustics speakers that are hooked up to an older (naturally) Sony receiver that has RCA inputs/outputs only or 2) maybe from a more current soundbar (that i do not as yet own). I should mention that the TV is connected to a cable box via HDMI. The cable box additionally has digital optical, USB, and RCA ports. I connected the cable box RCA outputs to my Sony receiver RCA phono inputs and got TV sound from the Boston speakers, but it was out of sync with the sound from the Bose speakers and sounded terrible. (as an aside, I have also tried using a DAC, both from the TV and from the cable box, but maybe because the TV sound is Dolby and not PCM, it hasn't worked - Sony said it "probably" wouldn't work but I tried anyway - best I got was the same out of sync sound.)

So probably a stupid question, but if I continue to use the headphone jack connection to the Bose speakers, would it be possible to also connect the cable box to a soundbar (via a toslink or USB) and thereby also get sound from the TV area? And if so, would that TV-area sound be in sync with the sound from the Bose speakers or would I have the same out of sync situation?

I hope I am being clear enough. I would certainly appreciate any guidance. Thanks.
Jim
I would try a pair of y cables from the cable box to both receivers.
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post #4 of 19 Old 05-04-2017, 08:55 AM - Thread Starter
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How are you driving the bose speakers?
I mean if you can connect extra pair of speakers to your receiver and locate them by your TV, that would be your easiest option.
Otherwise you can use option 1. Option 2 will have delay issue.
Thank you guys. Jasonsong, the Bose speakers are driven by a Bose receiver that is located in a closet upstairs. What I have access to by the TV are two sets of RCA inputs. Right now, one of those pairs is connected by a Y cable to the headphone jack on my TV. Are you saying the easiest option would be to connect a pair of extra speakers to the other set of RCA inputs? If so, showing my profound ignorance, can you tell me how that would be configured? would it run through the SONY receiver somehow?

HDMI Guy - same question as far as configuration. So on the cable box, are you saying the single connector on one Y cable would be attached to the red audio output and another Y cable single connector to the white audio output?
Then the R/W of one cable would go into the Bose (receiver) wall R/W inputs and the other into the Sony receiver (phono?) input, and that receiver would power the Boston speakers? Am I even close?

Thanks for help and patience.
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post #5 of 19 Old 05-04-2017, 08:57 AM - Thread Starter
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I would try a pair of y cables from the cable box to both receivers.
HDMI Guy - same question as far as configuration. So on the cable box, are you saying the single connector on one Y cable would be attached to the red audio output and another Y cable single connector to the white audio output?
Then the R/W of one cable would go into the Bose (receiver) wall R/W inputs and the other into the Sony receiver (phono?) input, and that receiver would power the Boston speakers? Am I even close?

Thank you.
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post #6 of 19 Old 05-04-2017, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by nsrlad View Post
Thank you guys. Jasonsong, the Bose speakers are driven by a Bose receiver that is located in a closet upstairs. What I have access to by the TV are two sets of RCA inputs. Right now, one of those pairs is connected by a Y cable to the headphone jack on my TV. Are you saying the easiest option would be to connect a pair of extra speakers to the other set of RCA inputs? If so, showing my profound ignorance, can you tell me how that would be configured? would it run through the SONY receiver somehow?

Thanks for help and patience.
What I was saying is if possible, you can just add an extra pair of speakers to the amp that's already driving the current bose speakers.
Or you can connect a pair of active (powered) speakers, to the Y cable that's connected to the headphone jack.
Here are the scenarios I can think of.
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post #7 of 19 Old 05-04-2017, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by jasonsong View Post
What I was saying is if possible, you can just add an extra pair of speakers to the amp that's already driving the current bose speakers.
Or you can connect a pair of active (powered) speakers, to the Y cable that's connected to the headphone jack.
Here are the scenarios I can think of.
Yes. One male to two female y for the red and another one for the white. Then run red to both receivers, and white to both receivers.
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post #8 of 19 Old 05-04-2017, 02:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes. One male to two female y for the red and another one for the white. Then run red to both receivers, and white to both receivers.
Well, good news and bad news. Surprisingly to me, I actually had 2 female y cables and I believe I connected them as you suggested. This actually produced 3 sound sources, the TV speakers, the Bose speakers, and the external Boston speakers via my old Sony receiver. The Bose and Boston speakers were in sync whereas the TV sound was about a second behind. By putting the TV volume to minimum, I was able to eliminate the weird echo effect. That's the good. The bad is that the sound from both the Bose and the Boston speakers is basically the quality of the Boston speakers, which is not good. They are old and I literally haven't used them in years. The Bose by themselves sound great, but when paired up with the Boston and the Sony amp, it's as if the Boston speaker output "takes over" the sound that comes out of the Bose. Also not ideal but not as important, I can't control the volume with the TV remote...I can control the volume to the Boston speakers via the remote to the Sony receiver, though this does not affect the Bose volume output. So I think the Boston speakers are pretty much junk at this point...or could it be the Sony receiver? The curious part to me is why the sound out of the Bose speakers is so degraded. This stuff gives me a headache.
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post #9 of 19 Old 05-04-2017, 02:20 PM - Thread Starter
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What I was saying is if possible, you can just add an extra pair of speakers to the amp that's already driving the current bose speakers.
Or you can connect a pair of active (powered) speakers, to the Y cable that's connected to the headphone jack.
Here are the scenarios I can think of.
Jasonsong, the old Boston Acoustic speakers I have are connected via wires to the Sony Amp - they don't have RCA connector cables. The Bose amp (or is it a receiver, I don't know) has two sets of R/W inputs in the wall. Using a male Y cable from the headphone jack to one of the Bose RCA input sets gives great sound out the Bose speakers. When you say '"if possible," do you mean if I had external speakers near the TV that had male RCA connectors, I could just plug those into the other set of RCA inputs to the Bose amp? Would I then continue to use the headphone connection to the Bose amp to get sound through the Bose speakers (and no TV-speaker sound) and simultaneously get synced sound out of the external speakers located near the TV?
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post #10 of 19 Old 05-04-2017, 03:41 PM
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I think what would work best for you is get a soundbar that connects to the TV with an optical input from the optical out on the TV. Use that for the front and center speakers and then wire the bose speakers using the headphone jack of the TV. Since everything is coming from the TV you should have no sync problems. One of the major problems with my first suggestion is the inability to control the volume using the TV remote. Another issue with my first suggestion is apparently splitting the audio reduced the quality to both the bose and Boston speakers. If you do get a soundbar go into the TV settings and turn off the TV speakers, then you can control the audio from the bose speakers with the TV volume.
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post #11 of 19 Old 05-04-2017, 05:16 PM - Thread Starter
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I think what would work best for you is get a soundbar that connects to the TV with an optical input from the optical out on the TV. Use that for the front and center speakers and then wire the bose speakers using the headphone jack of the TV. Since everything is coming from the TV you should have no sync problems. One of the major problems with my first suggestion is the inability to control the volume using the TV remote. Another issue with my first suggestion is apparently splitting the audio reduced the quality to both the bose and Boston speakers. If you do get a soundbar go into the TV settings and turn off the TV speakers, then you can control the audio from the bose speakers with the TV volume.
HDMI Guy, that sounds great, as long as the soundbar and Bose outputs are in sync! And if the remote can continue to control the sound to the Bose, as it does now through the headphone jack connection to it, that would be everything I am looking for, especially if the remote would also control the soundbar output! Just need to get a soundbar with digital optical and see how it goes. Thank you!
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post #12 of 19 Old 05-04-2017, 05:30 PM - Thread Starter
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I think what would work best for you is get a soundbar that connects to the TV with an optical input from the optical out on the TV. Use that for the front and center speakers and then wire the bose speakers using the headphone jack of the TV. Since everything is coming from the TV you should have no sync problems. One of the major problems with my first suggestion is the inability to control the volume using the TV remote. Another issue with my first suggestion is apparently splitting the audio reduced the quality to both the bose and Boston speakers. If you do get a soundbar go into the TV settings and turn off the TV speakers, then you can control the audio from the bose speakers with the TV volume.
oh, before ago off looking for a soundbar, is there anything else besides an optical input that I need to make sure it has? I've never bought one before so don't know if there might be any kinds of weird compatibility issues, e.g., maybe it has to handle Dolby like the TV uses? Anything? Thanks again.
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oh, before ago off looking for a soundbar, is there anything else besides an optical input that I need to make sure it has? I've never bought one before so don't know if there might be any kinds of weird compatibility issues, e.g., maybe it has to handle Dolby like the TV uses? Anything? Thanks again.
Any soundbar with optical input will handle Dolby like the TV. I think the key thing to watch for is a soundbar that either can control the TV volume or the TV remote can control the soundbar volume. If the soundbar can control the TV volume then it would control the bose volume since they are coming from the headphone jacks.
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Any soundbar with optical input will handle Dolby like the TV. I think the key thing to watch for is a soundbar that either can control the TV volume or the TV remote can control the soundbar volume. If the soundbar can control the TV volume then it would control the bose volume since they are coming from the headphone jacks.
Again showing my lack of experience with soundbars, when you say some control the TV volume, is that via their own remote? I gather you think a soundbar that controls the TV sound is preferable to one where the TV remote controls the soundbar volume...what I'm wondering though is given that my TV remote currently controls the Bose sound via the Bose connection to the headphone jack, wouldn't the TV remote also control the soundbar volume (and thereby not require an additional remote)? Or would it not work that way?
Do any soundbars enable both control of the TV volume and the TV remote to control the soundbar volume?
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What I was saying is if possible, you can just add an extra pair of speakers to the amp that's already driving the current bose speakers.
Or you can connect a pair of active (powered) speakers, to the Y cable that's connected to the headphone jack.
Here are the scenarios I can think of.
So it's never simple it seems. I contacted a ZVOX rep and asked if their soundbar, which sounded good for my modest purposes, would be in sync and he basically said it is more likely than not (though not certain) there would be a few milliseconds variance which would be almost like reverb - he said that typically happens when 2 different systems are involved. I'd rather just live with only the Bose sound in the ceiling than have reverb, but before I give up, I'd like to revisit your suggestions.

Jasonsong (or others), can you elaborate on what I would have to do to just add speakers to the Bose amp. I assume I would need speakers with RCA connectors...there is another set of inputs to the Bose amp in the wall that I very infrequently use for music in 3 different locations in the house. Could I just plug into those?

Or alternatively, with the powered speaker idea, I don't understand how that connection would work exactly. Right now the Y cable from the TV headphone jack is connected to the Bose amp so I'm not understanding how I would also connect powered speakers to that Y cable. Are there adaptors that would allow for this?

I would really appreciate any help - it seems the key to synchrony is staying within the Bose system somehow. Many thanks.
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post #16 of 19 Old 05-05-2017, 08:18 PM
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So it's never simple it seems. I contacted a ZVOX rep and asked if their soundbar, which sounded good for my modest purposes, would be in sync and he basically said it is more likely than not (though not certain) there would be a few milliseconds variance which would be almost like reverb - he said that typically happens when 2 different systems are involved. I'd rather just live with only the Bose sound in the ceiling than have reverb, but before I give up, I'd like to revisit your suggestions.

Jasonsong (or others), can you elaborate on what I would have to do to just add speakers to the Bose amp. I assume I would need speakers with RCA connectors...there is another set of inputs to the Bose amp in the wall that I very infrequently use for music in 3 different locations in the house. Could I just plug into those?

Or alternatively, with the powered speaker idea, I don't understand how that connection would work exactly. Right now the Y cable from the TV headphone jack is connected to the Bose amp so I'm not understanding how I would also connect powered speakers to that Y cable. Are there adaptors that would allow for this?

I would really appreciate any help - it seems the key to synchrony is staying within the Bose system somehow. Many thanks.
First we need to know what amp you are using to power the bose speakers. I mean I guess you can probably get away with running two speaker in series if the amp does not have more than 2 channels.
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post #17 of 19 Old 05-06-2017, 06:34 AM - Thread Starter
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First we need to know what amp you are using to power the bose speakers. I mean I guess you can probably get away with running two speaker in series if the amp does not have more than 2 channels.
I don't have a manual and I haven't been able to find one on-line. I've attached an actual picture and some info from a Bose repair website if it is any help. I saw something online where someone selling this system that seemed to indicate it is 2-channel. I will try to contact Bose Monday to confirm, but let's assume it is 2-channel. What would running two speakers in series involve exactly?
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post #18 of 19 Old 05-08-2017, 01:50 PM - Thread Starter
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I don't have a manual and I haven't been able to find one on-line. I've attached an actual picture and some info from a Bose repair website if it is any help. I saw something online where someone selling this system that seemed to indicate it is 2-channel. I will try to contact Bose Monday to confirm, but let's assume it is 2-channel. What would running two speakers in series involve exactly?
Got a pdf of the manual and confirmed it is a 2 channel/3 room system. I think I am just going to have to be satisfied with it as is - at least the Bose by themselves are better than the TV speakers by themselves. Thanks.
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So just when I had given up, it turns out, in contrast to what I was first told in an email by Sony Support, that it IS possible to have simultaneous sound from the TV speaker and from RCA external (in this case Bose) speakers in modern Sonys. Because of that initial misinformation, I tried several workarounds that did not work out for one reason or another. The breakthrough came when I recontacted Sony to ask if a soundbar, connected via a digital audio cable from the TV, would give sound that was in sync with the Bose-speaker sound connected through the TV headphone jack. The emailed response did not answer THAT question at all....but ironically, it basically answered my original question (asked of a different person) in stating that it IS possible, through specific TV settings, to get sound from the Sony TV speakers AND external speakers connected via the headphone jack. He then gave me incomplete instructions on what those settings should be (left out about 3-4 steps), and I was able to muddle through, via some trial and error, to get what I wanted all along, TV speaker sound AND Bose sound! So the odyssey is over. In addition to learning some basic AV-connection stuff, I learned that at least as far as Sony Support, it can pay to get a second opinion, even if their answers may be partially off point. I want to thank Jasonsong and HDMI Guy for their time and effort in my quest!
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