Large Projection Family Room Theater (3D Models!) — Input Needed - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 5 Old 12-26-2017, 08:31 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
jdtsmith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 88
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 54 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Large Projection Family Room Theater (3D Models!) — Input Needed

I'm finally starting the process of designing a projector-based theater in a mixed use family room over the garage. Right now, the kids do some gaming there, we play table tennis, and general romping. It's a large space: 26.5' x 23.5', heavily gabled with 12' ceilings at the peak. We watch TV there now, almost exclusively movies at night.

I've come up with a rough design with a screen at the far end of length of the room, and am looking for input. This short 3D fly around offers an overview:

3D Fly-Through

This is a mixed use space and will stay that way, but I am committed to achieving good quality within a reasonable budget and the constraints of the room. Here's the 3D view from the door entering the room:



The screen will come down to cover two windows on the back wall, which you can see in this "X-Ray" view:



Some of the basic components I've had in mind:

  1. A Motorized Tab-tensioned 2.35:1 screen for a constant-image-height setup. See below for screen configuration and my arguments for a cinescope screen. The only 2.35 I can find that seems to fit is the Elite Cinetension2 138". Would be very glad to have other suggestions.
  2. Some curtains made by my lovely wife to mask side-bars when viewing 16:9 content.
  3. A 4K-capable projector. Leaning heavily towards Epson 5040UB.
  4. A 5.1 surround system. I've included in the model the larger KEF Q series Q300 bookshelves and matching center. I'm open to a couple of in-ceiling ATMOS speakers, but given the strange layout of the gables, not sure how they could be situated.
  5. I'm inclined to go with 2 sub-woofers for a space this large. Very open to input on brands, sizes, etc.
  6. Some kind of AV receiver that can hide in the closet (near where the guy is standing).
  7. A UHD Blu-Ray player.
  8. A 4K AppleTV.

I have a few categories of issues I'd love help with:

Screen and light

The screen must cover the window frames when it is deployed. The windows it covers face West, but are under heavy tree cover. Some late afternoon light gets in, despite good window shades. So a screen that "leaks" light from behind is less desirable than one that blocks it. The big bank of windows faces South, and gets lots of daytime sun. I have screens on all but the high semi-circle. Thinking about adding a motorized screen to that too. Skylights face North, and have motorized blinds.

Here's my argument for a 2.35:1 screen: the gables in the "bumpout" area where the screen lives come in steeply, so there's less room above for a taller aspect screen. Probably I could fit a 16:9 of similar width or slightly smaller. Movie watching occurs almost exclusively at night, so a less bright image is OK. (ProjectorCentral estimates ~38fL when mounted at 15' throw, nearly as close as possible for a 10'7" wide image). 16:9 use is mostly during the day (games, etc.), so a smaller effective screen (~110" diagonal here) is ideal, as it increases the brightness to ~56fL, which makes it possible to play games without closing blinds (I'm hoping). Here’s a view in 16:9 mode with the curtains deployed to simulate a 110” diaganol:



Here you can see the full projected image areas (black bars and all) marked as black rectangles in both the 2.35 (larger rectangle) and 16:9 (smaller rectangle) zoomed settings:



Notice that in wide screen 2.35 mode the black bars spill above and below, but that the bar below falls off the screen matting. The wall behind is moderately dark, but this isn't ideal. It also brings up another real issue:

Projector Placement

Even maxing out its very generous 98% vertical shift, the Epson needs to be mounted an uncomfortable 2' 6" down from the ceiling. I'd far prefer less, in part because of how vulnerable it looks hanging there in free space (think nerf gun wars). It's still a good 8'9" up, so no danger of slapping it, but still. What would be ideal would be to have a screen with another ~6-8“ or so of black below the screen area, which would capture the lower black bar overhang in 2.35 content, meet the WAF by overlapping the windows frames completely when deployed, and also allow me to shift the screen and projector up by that amount. Never seen such an option.

Mounting on the rear wall in a shelf is another possibility. But it compromises image brightness somewhat and would be a >40' run for the HDMI cable. It's also sadly impossible with the 54" constant image height shown here. You can't make the image that small — room too big. I'd need to switch to a 16:9 ~125" diagonal and zoom all the way in (+tolerate black bars top and bottom, and a brightness drop to a constant 36fL). But far more secure I admit. And another advantage of a rear shelf mount is it may allow the use of a higher gain or ALR screen material than a ceiling mounting (3rd scene in the movie above is from the projector's perspective: screen is way down there!). So that might cancel out some of the brightness losses.

Audio

Is it worth trying to find some in ceiling positions for Atmos speakers? Other (perhaps smaller) satellite surround ideas? Is 4 bookshelves all the way around reasonable? Placement issues given the unusual ceiling? Thoughts on sub placement and sound tuning systems? Other placement ideas? Here's a view standing near the screen looking back towards the door, showing the high rear surrounds:



So that’s where I am. Apologies for the long post. Input on any part of the project is very much appreciated.

Last edited by jdtsmith; 12-26-2017 at 09:46 PM. Reason: spelling
jdtsmith is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 5 Old 12-26-2017, 08:35 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
jdtsmith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 88
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 54 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Some of the basic components I've had in mind:

  1. A Motorized Tab-tensions 2.35:1 screen for a constant-image-height setup. See below for screen configuration and my arguments for a cinescope screen. The only 2.35 I can find that seems to fit is the Elite Cinatension2 138". Would be very glad to have other screen suggestions.
  2. Some curtains made by my lovely wife to mask side-bar when viewing 16:9 content.
  3. A 4K-capable projector. Leaning heavily towards Epson 5040UB.
  4. A 5.1 surround system. I've included in the model the larger KEF Q series speakers: Q300 bookshelves and matching center. I'm open to a couple of in-ceiling ATMOS speakers, but given the strange layout of the gables, I'm not sure how they could be situated.
  5. I'm inclined to go with 2 sub-woofers for a space this large. Very open to input on brands, sizes, etc.
  6. Some kind of AV receiver that can hide in the closet (near where the guy is standing).
  7. A UHD Blu-Ray player.
  8. A 4K AppleTV.
jdtsmith is offline  
post #3 of 5 Old 12-27-2017, 06:50 AM
Senior Member
 
woodgieroo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Fargo, ND
Posts: 247
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 101 Post(s)
Liked: 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdtsmith View Post
Projector Placement

Even maxing out its very generous 98% vertical shift, the Epson needs to be mounted an uncomfortable 2' 6" down from the ceiling. I'd far prefer less, in part because of how vulnerable it looks hanging there in free space (think nerf gun wars). It's still a good 8'9" up, so no danger of slapping it, but still. What would be ideal would be to have a screen with another ~6-8“ or so of black below the screen area, which would capture the lower black bar overhang in 2.35 content, meet the WAF by overlapping the windows frames completely when deployed, and also allow me to shift the screen and projector up by that amount. Never seen such an option.

Mounting on the rear wall in a shelf is another possibility. But it compromises image brightness somewhat and would be a >40' run for the HDMI cable. It's also sadly impossible with the 54" constant image height shown here. You can't make the image that small — room too big. I'd need to switch to a 16:9 ~125" diagonal and zoom all the way in (+tolerate black bars top and bottom, and a brightness drop to a constant 36fL). But far more secure I admit. And another advantage of a rear shelf mount is it may allow the use of a higher gain or ALR screen material than a ceiling mounting (3rd scene in the movie above is from the projector's perspective: screen is way down there!). So that might cancel out some of the brightness losses.
Since you already have the gabled ceiling, I think I'd combine the location of the ceiling mount with the security of the shelf and do something like this:



Assuming that there would be enough air flow, a back on the enclosure wouldn't be a bad idea. Just be prepared to clean out NERF darts every so often.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdtsmith View Post
Is it worth trying to find some in ceiling positions for Atmos speakers?
Due to the height and the rear surrounds already being ceiling speakers, Atmos is something I've never considered for my theater room but there's no reason to not at least think about it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdtsmith View Post
Other (perhaps smaller) satellite surround ideas? Is 4 bookshelves all the way around reasonable?
Personally, bookshelf speakers are fine for surrounds but I wouldn't go with them for my fronts. You've got the room for floor standing speakers. I'd use it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdtsmith View Post
Placement issues given the unusual ceiling?
I'm assuming you're talking about the left and right surrounds? Based on the ceiling, I don't think you have much other option than to mount one above the large window and the other just at the junction of the wall and sloped ceiling. Looks like heights will be a bit different, though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdtsmith View Post
Thoughts on sub placement and sound tuning systems? Other placement ideas?
I'd strongly recommend two subs, not necessarily for volume and bass as for cancelling null waves. Play around with REW to see where the subs are best located to try to get the flattest response.

Good luck with the build!
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	SHELF.JPG
Views:	134
Size:	29.9 KB
ID:	2335970  
woodgieroo is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 5 Old 12-27-2017, 05:35 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
jdtsmith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 88
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 54 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by woodgieroo View Post
Since you already have the gabled ceiling, I think I'd combine the location of the ceiling mount with the security of the shelf and do something like this:

Assuming that there would be enough air flow, a back on the enclosure wouldn't be a bad idea. Just be prepared to clean out NERF darts every so often.
That's a really interesting idea. My only concern would be future-proofing it; I'd then be fairly tied to that generous amount of vertical lens shift. If I can lift the viewing screen by a foot that would get me close to the ballpark. Still thinking about a way to do that and block the full window frames.

Quote:
Due to the height and the rear surrounds already being ceiling speakers, Atmos is something I've never considered for my theater room but there's no reason to not at least think about it.

Personally, bookshelf speakers are fine for surrounds but I wouldn't go with them for my fronts. You've got the room for floor standing speakers. I'd use it.
Thanks. Been thinking they look a bit small up there. Tower recommendations or thoughts on KEF?

Quote:
I'm assuming you're talking about the left and right surrounds? Based on the ceiling, I don't think you have much other option than to mount one above the large window and the other just at the junction of the wall and sloped ceiling. Looks like heights will be a bit different, though.
In fact that was in my first draft to get them close to the side of the seating. Tucking the right rear into the little alcove works great, but then the rear left surround is by symmetry awkwardly in the middle of a window, or must be further up and behind the seating. Thoughts on ramifications for having rears so far behind you? I could move them down and further apart, to "spread" the rear sound stage a bit. Now they are about as far apart as the fronts (which are ~11' for a ~14' listening distance, so fairly widely spread).

Quote:
I'd strongly recommend two subs, not necessarily for volume and bass as for cancelling null waves. Play around with REW to see where the subs are best located to try to get the flattest response.
Thanks. Ported subs, for a room of this volume (>5000ft^3)?

Quote:
Good luck with the build!
Thanks very much! Will keep posting as I make decisions. Happy to have additional input from anyone.
jdtsmith is offline  
post #5 of 5 Old 12-27-2017, 08:17 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
jdtsmith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 88
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 54 Post(s)
Liked: 12
A few shots with woodgieroo's flying shelf idea:




Looks quite secure, but too bulky for WAF unfortunately. And thinking about it, raising the screen wouldn't give me more than about 6" of relief. A long mounting pole is seeming more likely. What general solutions do people have for tall ceilings? Anyone have any other ideas?

Thanks, giving me good stuff to consider.

On the rear surround placement, the 2nd shot above shows the idea of in wall speakers in those angled "buttresses". A bit lower and closer to the seats, brings you from about 156° from the forward screen-facing direction to 142°. Still nowhere close to the 110° max suggested in an 5.2.2 atmos setup... Not sure the impact of that.

Last edited by jdtsmith; 12-27-2017 at 08:22 PM.
jdtsmith is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply General Home Theater & Media/Game Rooms

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off