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post #151 of 298 Old 12-03-2018, 11:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Elegant View Post
Hi Terry,

Congratulations on another great post. I do not envy you having to deal with the preparation and posting of all those photos. It is quite generous of you to take the time to share all that has happened with your home theater these past months. I'm sure some people will find this thread quite useful.

Your room looks fantastic and the gear you have, both on the the video and audio sides, makes we mere mortals drool.

In just under two weeks you will have Chad B there to calibrate everything, which will be the proverbial topping on the cake. I really look forward to your summary of that day and the results of Chad's work as he will be coming to my house sometime this spring to do both the video and audio on my system.

I'm glad you can now finally enjoy your home theater as you have had it turned upside down many times in the past weeks. Maybe you and Cathy can celebrate by using your home theater as a dance floor to the great songs of ABBA playing.

Cheers my friend,
Tom
Hi brother Tom,

Well my good-man it has finally all gotten done and it does actually really honestly look like a commercial theater.
That's what Cathy's comment was after the HT was totally painted with the Rosco Velour Flat Black.
Those guys kicked-serious-butt.

Then out of no-where I'm contacted by Charles at
They had a cancellation and since he knew Chad was coming here on the 14th he put me in that spot.
So the three techs did their thing and I'm now all set for Chad for both Audio and Video.

Just making a quick comment since you are well aware of messing with posting lots of pictures on a post.
It's actually a very-very long-drawn out ordeal.
I do it to share with others like yourself as I think pictures make such a drastic positive difference to just using text only describing what's been done.
For those that see a thread like this with hundreds of pictures hopefully they do realize it's a time consuming sort of thing done for others.

Oh, Jason came by early AM this morning and we discussed several things about the HT in detail.
Some of which I wanted to know what he thought about me having Chad do his thing ???
He 100% agreed with me that since we can afford to have Chad do both the Audio and Video I should do that.
Then when we once again recover from the thousands upon thousands of US dollars spent so far.
To get on the list for Chad's Tour and have him come back by and do a Refresh with the Atmos then added.

We have not yet loaded ABBA as I want Cathy relaxed and not thinking about her job.
So, the ABBA thing might actually take place when she is using vacation days on a weekend.

Later,
Terry

JVC RS4500 Laser Projector:
My "New" Home Theater Up-Dates with Pictures, March 6th, 2019 .
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/15-ge...st-2018-a.html

Last edited by tigerhonaker; 12-03-2018 at 11:35 AM.
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post #152 of 298 Old 12-04-2018, 10:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Post I have put together my thoughts & questions to Chad B (Custom Calibrator) below ...

Guys,

After seeing many comments over on the dedicated JVC RS4500 thread from end usurers regarding Chad B.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/86-ultra-hi-end-ht-gear-20-000/2732545-official-jvc-rs4500-z1-owner-s-thread.html
I have decided to keep things as simple as possible for Chad as well as myself.
I have just completed my list on Hard-Copy I'll provide him with.
He will be here in less than 2-weeks now so have luckily had time to think and prepare my list for him.
His arrival will be on, December (Friday) 14th at 10 AM.
As I have read from others that have the exact same components I do or certainly close to what I have they have said to me the following in general regarding Chad.
Terry, make your list, give it to Chad if he has questions he will address them right then.
Then do Chad a favor and just basically Go-Away and when he is done he will come get you.
That way he totally knows (Your-List) and can totally concentrate on doing what you paying him for and he sure does not need your input.
Nor does he really need you to be sitting there with him shoulder to shoulder watching his every move.
No the guys didn't say it like I just laid it out above but I'm just more Blunt.

Anyway after considering what I was actually going to do I think they are right.

Below is the Final-List I'm going to give Chad and ask him if he has any questions for me and if not ???
I'm going to show him the Men's room, refrigerator, snacks etc all in the HT and in my case I'll also tell him if he wants a Pizza, Burger etc. I'll provide that.
Then he will have my List and I'll be Up-Stairs until he comes and gets me when he is done !!!





Terry

JVC RS4500 Laser Projector:
My "New" Home Theater Up-Dates with Pictures, March 6th, 2019 .
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/15-ge...st-2018-a.html
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post #153 of 298 Old 12-04-2018, 04:11 PM
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I would recommend larger subs and more power to the subs. You have a fairly large volume for two 12" subs.
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post #154 of 298 Old 12-04-2018, 05:20 PM
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Terry, don't want to get you further down the rabbit hole so to speak but given you own a 'big gun' projector these days, might be time to consider a move to the 'next rung' of audio to go with your high end JM Labs speakers . I've had a multitude of AVP's and AVR's over the years, from the higher end of Meridian and McIntosh/Lyngdorf to Onkyo,Pioneer, Marantz, Arcam, and Anthem. I went back from a McIntosh MX150 to Marantz 8802 as a hold over till the MX160 came out. That was good long while there, like a year and a bit. I used it in both my old room and current dedicated room it would be probably the 4th Audyssey based processor I'd had. Being quite an in-depth DIY guy with room correction software since back when Meridian first brought it out, I spent a lot of time with Audyssey and even invested in the pro-kit which I used in the current room. In the end, no matter how much I could get out of the Marantz, once I went back to McIntosh with it's Room Perfect software, I again could immediately hear the shortcomings of Audyssey XT32 with the system. I also have and use Anthem ARC in my other system at my weekender and that system has seen AVR's with Audyssey, MCCAC, Dirac. To date the only other system I've quite liked is ARC, with one exception being the implementation of the fine Dirac system in the Arcam AVR was flawed in application in the system's bass management (don't know if Arcam ever addressed it as I returned the unit) so not the ideal test of that well respected room correction software. So in short, I would highly recommend listening(demo'ed in you HT) to either a Lyngdorf MP50 (currently better value for $$)/MX160 or Anthem AVM60. You could also look at something with Dirac, but you'd end up in the next price bracket with Datasat, Theta, or Trinnov. I reckon though those beautiful JM Labs Utopias deserve a next level AVP with little doubt! There's a guy who reminds me a lot of you, dedicated room, retired chap also. The geographic exception being he's way across the other side of the world. Has an older JVC RS600 in a dedicated room and has also owned Marantz and moved into a MX160. He's also a keen member here, you may have come across him previously, RapalloAV aka Murray. I reckon he'd enjoy discussing setups with you. I used to PM with him a lot various HT.



Also, I second what Mike says re subs. I'm running two Paradigm Sub 1's and they sound pretty damn sweet and plumb some low lows and my room volume over all would be more compact than yours. I could though, despite that, even tempt myself with a pair of JTR's instead, or if I found a pair of demos or close-outs a more feasible cost here, the big brother Sub2's . Also, I''l thrown in that the nice thing you can do on the fly with the MX160 or MP-50 is select a curve to suit what you're listening to, a very nice way to EQ movies slightly more bass weighed than say a flatter music listening scenario.

Last edited by OzHDHT; 12-04-2018 at 05:23 PM.
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post #155 of 298 Old 12-05-2018, 08:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Mike Garrett View Post
I would recommend larger subs and more power to the subs.
You have a fairly large volume for two 12" subs.
Mike,

I probably should have elaborated more when I said currently I don't hear bass the way I wish.
The reason is has nothing to do with the Mirage subwoofers.
I have four (4) of them actually and in each enclosure are two 12" Subs self/powered.
So, there are 4-Mirage BPS Subs and in each enclosure are 2-12" Subs for a total of 8-12" Subs.
Two in the front and two in the rear of the HT.
They can kick serious butt and have in the past.

What has really happened to lessen them is when the XT32 was ran it set the Front and Right JML speakers to Large.
Which as we know means they are right now full band width including bass.

I have left all settings where they are so that Chad can hear for himself what the system is doing before he does his Audio Calibrations.
I have little doubt all the JML speakers will be set on small and the 4-Mirage Subs will once again be rocking as always in the past.

Mike, I just heard from Chad last night ………..

Terry

JVC RS4500 Laser Projector:
My "New" Home Theater Up-Dates with Pictures, March 6th, 2019 .
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/15-ge...st-2018-a.html

Last edited by tigerhonaker; 12-06-2018 at 08:19 AM.
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post #156 of 298 Old 12-05-2018, 08:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by OzHDHT View Post
Terry, don't want to get you further down the rabbit hole so to speak but given you own a 'big gun' projector these days, might be time to consider a move to the 'next rung' of audio to go with your high end JM Labs speakers . I've had a multitude of AVP's and AVR's over the years, from the higher end of Meridian and McIntosh/Lyngdorf to Onkyo,Pioneer, Marantz, Arcam, and Anthem. I went back from a McIntosh MX150 to Marantz 8802 as a hold over till the MX160 came out. That was good long while there, like a year and a bit. I used it in both my old room and current dedicated room it would be probably the 4th Audyssey based processor I'd had. Being quite an in-depth DIY guy with room correction software since back when Meridian first brought it out, I spent a lot of time with Audyssey and even invested in the pro-kit which I used in the current room. In the end, no matter how much I could get out of the Marantz, once I went back to McIntosh with it's Room Perfect software, I again could immediately hear the shortcomings of Audyssey XT32 with the system. I also have and use Anthem ARC in my other system at my weekender and that system has seen AVR's with Audyssey, MCCAC, Dirac. To date the only other system I've quite liked is ARC, with one exception being the implementation of the fine Dirac system in the Arcam AVR was flawed in application in the system's bass management (don't know if Arcam ever addressed it as I returned the unit) so not the ideal test of that well respected room correction software. So in short, I would highly recommend listening(demo'ed in you HT) to either a Lyngdorf MP50 (currently better value for $$)/MX160 or Anthem AVM60. You could also look at something with Dirac, but you'd end up in the next price bracket with Datasat, Theta, or Trinnov. I reckon though those beautiful JM Labs Utopias deserve a next level AVP with little doubt! There's a guy who reminds me a lot of you, dedicated room, retired chap also. The geographic exception being he's way across the other side of the world. Has an older JVC RS600 in a dedicated room and has also owned Marantz and moved into a MX160. He's also a keen member here, you may have come across him previously, RapalloAV aka Murray. I reckon he'd enjoy discussing setups with you. I used to PM with him a lot various HT.



Also, I second what Mike says re subs. I'm running two Paradigm Sub 1's and they sound pretty damn sweet and plumb some low lows and my room volume over all would be more compact than yours. I could though, despite that, even tempt myself with a pair of JTR's instead, or if I found a pair of demos or close-outs a more feasible cost here, the big brother Sub2's . Also, I''l thrown in that the nice thing you can do on the fly with the MX160 or MP-50 is select a curve to suit what you're listening to, a very nice way to EQ movies slightly more bass weighed than say a flatter music listening scenario.

Thanks for your post and it's content.

My current system is below and I am going to keep it for a long time.
The next change is the addition of Atmos hopefully by the end of 2019, maybe.



Up-Dated November 2018

Pre-Amp: Marantz AV8805
Blu-Ray Player: Panasonic UB820 4K Blu-ray player
Roku Ultra 4K Streaming Player
Projector: JVC RS4500 Laser
Screen: Stewart (Firehawk) 1.35 gain 123" 16x9 W/4-Way Remote Masking
Speakers: JM Lab Utopia Mezzo Front, Center Utopia, Side Utopia, Rear Mini Utopia
Subwoofers: 4-Mirage BPS400 sitting on 4 "Auralex Great Gramma" pads
Cables: Transparent TW Plus w/Plus Bricks
Amps: Classe', 2-CA201, 3-CAM350
Power Conditioners: 1-Richard Gray RGPC-1200S, 7-RGPC-400S
Panamax MB1500 Back up Power Unit for JVC RS4500
Cooling: 3-sets of Z-Fans, Cool-Stack I, Suncourt Variable Speed Thru Wall Fan
ATM (Active Thermal Management)
Mid Atlantic: Track 50" rack slide out
Sanus CFR1620 Rack W/Middle Atlantic 4-Post H/D Shelves
Room Acoustic: Acoustic Innovations panels
Seating: Ekornes Stressless Wave

Terry

JVC RS4500 Laser Projector:
My "New" Home Theater Up-Dates with Pictures, March 6th, 2019 .
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/15-ge...st-2018-a.html
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post #157 of 298 Old 12-05-2018, 09:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tigerhonaker View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by OzHDHT View Post
Terry, don't want to get you further down the rabbit hole so to speak but given you own a 'big gun' projector these days, might be time to consider a move to the 'next rung' of audio to go with your high end JM Labs speakers [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]. I've had a multitude of AVP's and AVR's over the years, from the higher end of Meridian and McIntosh/Lyngdorf to Onkyo,Pioneer, Marantz, Arcam, and Anthem. I went back from a McIntosh MX150 to Marantz 8802 as a hold over till the MX160 came out. That was good long while there, like a year and a bit. I used it in both my old room and current dedicated room it would be probably the 4th Audyssey based processor I'd had. Being quite an in-depth DIY guy with room correction software since back when Meridian first brought it out, I spent a lot of time with Audyssey and even invested in the pro-kit which I used in the current room. In the end, no matter how much I could get out of the Marantz, once I went back to McIntosh with it's Room Perfect software, I again could immediately hear the shortcomings of Audyssey XT32 with the system. I also have and use Anthem ARC in my other system at my weekender and that system has seen AVR's with Audyssey, MCCAC, Dirac. To date the only other system I've quite liked is ARC, with one exception being the implementation of the fine Dirac system in the Arcam AVR was flawed in application in the system's bass management (don't know if Arcam ever addressed it as I returned the unit) so not the ideal test of that well respected room correction software. So in short, I would highly recommend listening(demo'ed in you HT) to either a Lyngdorf MP50 (currently better value for $$)/MX160 or Anthem AVM60. You could also look at something with Dirac, but you'd end up in the next price bracket with Datasat, Theta, or Trinnov[IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/eek.gif[/IMG]. I reckon though those beautiful JM Labs Utopias deserve a next level AVP with little doubt! There's a guy who reminds me a lot of you, dedicated room, retired chap also. The geographic exception being he's way across the other side of the world. Has an older JVC RS600 in a dedicated room and has also owned Marantz and moved into a MX160. He's also a keen member here, you may have come across him previously, RapalloAV aka Murray. I reckon he'd enjoy discussing setups with you. I used to PM with him a lot various HT.



Also, I second what Mike says re subs. I'm running two Paradigm Sub 1's and they sound pretty damn sweet and plumb some low lows and my room volume over all would be more compact than yours. I could though, despite that, even tempt myself with a pair of JTR's instead, or if I found a pair of demos or close-outs a more feasible cost here, the big brother Sub2's [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif[/IMG]. Also, I''l thrown in that the nice thing you can do on the fly with the MX160 or MP-50 is select a curve to suit what you're listening to, a very nice way to EQ movies slightly more bass weighed than say a flatter music listening scenario.

Thanks for your post and it's content. [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]

My current system is below and I am going to keep it for a long time.
The next change is the addition of Atmos hopefully by the end of 2019, maybe.



Up-Dated November 2018

Pre-Amp: Marantz AV8805
Blu-Ray Player: Panasonic UB820 4K Blu-ray player
Roku Ultra 4K Streaming Player
Projector: JVC RS4500 Laser
Screen: Stewart (Firehawk) 1.35 gain 123" 16x9 W/4-Way Remote Masking
Speakers: JM Lab Utopia Mezzo Front, Center Utopia, Side Utopia, Rear Mini Utopia
Subwoofers: 4-Mirage BPS400 sitting on 4 "Auralex Great Gramma" pads
Cables: Transparent TW Plus w/Plus Bricks
Amps: Classe', 2-CA201, 3-CAM350
Power Conditioners: 1-Richard Gray RGPC-1200S, 7-RGPC-400S
Panamax MB1500 Back up Power Unit for JVC RS4500
Cooling: 3-sets of Z-Fans, Cool-Stack I, Suncourt Variable Speed Thru Wall Fan
ATM (Active Thermal Management)
Mid Atlantic: Track 50" rack slide out
Sanus CFR1620 Rack W/Middle Atlantic 4-Post H/D Shelves
Room Acoustic: Acoustic Innovations panels
Seating: Ekornes Stressless Wave

Terry
Terry, noticed you said you ran your fronts as large in Audyssey. Thats a big no no in that RC system. You'll definitely handicap the crap out of your subs that way. The Audyssey guide thread here on forum is chock full of such advice and I highly recommended it if you haven't read it.

I appreciate you don't want to change processors but I seriously believe you are doing your level of high end speakers a disservice by committing to the 8805. It has zero evolution in Audyssey which is becoming a very outdated RC comparatively these days in the high end. I honestly didn't even like with my lower end Martin Logan Edge and Motion model based system, let alone by much bigger Revel based system. Honestly just having plonked down on the real deal 4500, the cost of the next level circa $10k surround processors fully justified.

But of course entirely your choice. I've personally had generations of surround gear and several different rooms to listen to them in. Worst thing you could do is as a dealer for in home demo of say an MP50 or Mx160 in your room. You don't have go in head first with this stuff as it's important for the money spent you get to hear how the equipment sounds in your specific room first. It's not like a projector where it's totally your problem for how well or how poorly you set your room up screenwise, colorwise, etc.

I'm sure a really nice bloke like @RapalloAV could weigh in here about the difference moving to Room Perfect via the MX160 made in his HT.
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post #158 of 298 Old 12-06-2018, 08:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Terry, noticed you said you ran your fronts as large in Audyssey. Thats a big no no in that RC system. You'll definitely handicap the crap out of your subs that way. The Audyssey guide thread here on forum is chock full of such advice and I highly recommended it if you haven't read it.

I appreciate you don't want to change processors but I seriously believe you are doing your level of high end speakers a disservice by committing to the 8805. It has zero evolution in Audyssey which is becoming a very outdated RC comparatively these days in the high end. I honestly didn't even like with my lower end Martin Logan Edge and Motion model based system, let alone by much bigger Revel based system. Honestly just having plonked down on the real deal 4500, the cost of the next level circa $10k surround processors fully justified.

But of course entirely your choice. I've personally had generations of surround gear and several different rooms to listen to them in. Worst thing you could do is as a dealer for in home demo of say an MP50 or Mx160 in your room. You don't have go in head first with this stuff as it's important for the money spent you get to hear how the equipment sounds in your specific room first. It's not like a projector where it's totally your problem for how well or how poorly you set your room up screenwise, colorwise, etc.

I'm sure a really nice bloke like @RapalloAV could weigh in here about the difference moving to Room Perfect via the MX160 made in his HT.
I do know that those front speakers should actually be set on (Small).
The only reason I have not changed any audio settings is because in 8-days from now Chad B will be right here where I am only of course he will be in the HT.
http://www.hdtvbychadb.com/home-1.html
So I see no reason to mess around refining the audio and wasting my time or my A/V techs time as it makes no real difference with the short wait time.
Lastly, as you saw from my comments to Mike Garrett I have 4-BPS 400 Mirage subs and they do have the ability to produce tons of Bass when the system is calibrated correctly.

Maybe in the future I might actually bite the bullet and go for one of the Higher-End processors.
At the present time I/we are spent out.

As we all know that are heavily into what some of us refer to as truly dedicated Home Theaters there is and will always be ………….. better.

Terry

JVC RS4500 Laser Projector:
My "New" Home Theater Up-Dates with Pictures, March 6th, 2019 .
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/15-ge...st-2018-a.html

Last edited by tigerhonaker; 12-06-2018 at 08:14 AM.
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post #159 of 298 Old 12-06-2018, 07:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tigerhonaker View Post
I do know that those front speakers should actually be set on (Small).
The only reason I have not changed any audio settings is because in 8-days from now Chad B will be right here where I am only of course he will be in the HT.
http://www.hdtvbychadb.com/home-1.html
So I see no reason to mess around refining the audio and wasting my time or my A/V techs time as it makes no real difference with the short wait time.
Lastly, as you saw from my comments to Mike Garrett I have 4-BPS 400 Mirage subs and they do have the ability to produce tons of Bass when the system is calibrated correctly.

Maybe in the future I might actually bite the bullet and go for one of the Higher-End processors.
At the present time I/we are spent out.

As we all know that are heavily into what some of us refer to as truly dedicated Home Theaters there is and will always be ………….. better.

Terry



Ok, Terry just passing on some really basic stuff, this kind adjust doesn't take any real time. But if feel you have to wait for Chad to come and change it as a part of the whole system tuning and calibration then by all means. It would drive me up the wall personally to grin and bear it till then no matter how soon. But I have no doubt whatsoever that you'll certainly be feeling a major improvement once Chad sorts things out. I didn't mention before but I can't speak highly enough of the 4 speaker in ceiling ATMOS option. It's relatively low cost, great bang for the buck add-on for a dedicated HT like yours.



Hope you do choose to explore more processors. Its easy to justify the visual results of the 4500 as we know in doing such an upgrade as you have. But it's easy to underestimate the sonic improvements that are also equally as significant with such audio gear. Anyway, I'm not familiar with your local area there by any means, but I would hazard a guess that you'd find a dealer willing to do a demo of at least one of the processors mentioned prior with absolutely no strings attached. Most dealers are pretty motivated when it comes to moving the high end stuff as so many potential buys want to be convinced of the capabilities of these products in their own home on their particular system as opposed to being expected to make that choice in a store's demo room.
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post #160 of 298 Old 12-07-2018, 12:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok, Terry just passing on some really basic stuff, this kind adjust doesn't take any real time. But if feel you have to wait for Chad to come and change it as a part of the whole system tuning and calibration then by all means. It would drive me up the wall personally to grin and bear it till then no matter how soon. But I have no doubt whatsoever that you'll certainly be feeling a major improvement once Chad sorts things out. I didn't mention before but I can't speak highly enough of the 4 speaker in ceiling ATMOS option. It's relatively low cost, great bang for the buck add-on for a dedicated HT like yours.
Actually I'm very capable of making the changes to the audio but just decided to stay calm for a week.
I have not yet actually watched a 4K disc as I have put that on hold also until Chad comes next Friday.
When it's really necessary I have taught myself to have patience.
This is one of those times.

Hope you do choose to explore more processors. Its easy to justify the visual results of the 4500 as we know in doing such an upgrade as you have. But it's easy to underestimate the sonic improvements that are also equally as significant with such audio gear. Anyway, I'm not familiar with your local area there by any means, but I would hazard a guess that you'd find a dealer willing to do a demo of at least one of the processors mentioned prior with absolutely no strings attached. Most dealers are pretty motivated when it comes to moving the high end stuff as so many potential buys want to be convinced of the capabilities of these products in their own home on their particular system as opposed to being expected to make that choice in a store's demo room
Actually where I live which is like maybe 25 minutes south of Nashville, TN.
There are no-longer any real brick & mortar A/V stores.
There use to be but when the recession hit those businesses went away and have not come back.
Some sold out and others have went under.

So, as only information I doubt there is any A/V dealer going to have in stock any high-end gear including pre-amp processors.
Just the way it is ……….
What is interesting I live in Franklin, TN. which is Williamson Cnty. which is 1 of the 10 richest counties in the USA.
Things change and as I have said in this post A/V High-End dealers are actually for the most part a thing of the past here.
Terry

JVC RS4500 Laser Projector:
My "New" Home Theater Up-Dates with Pictures, March 6th, 2019 .
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/15-ge...st-2018-a.html
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post #161 of 298 Old 12-07-2018, 01:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Hello guys,


Well I did make a change today and really like the look.
Took a week for the part to arrive but it was worth the wait.
As you will see below it was well worth the wait.


My buddy/tech at Jason took his personal time to locate this Black 3-way switch for me.
I drove to Home Depot, Lowes and then to Nashville to Hermitage Lighting and no store carries a lighted black 3-way switch.
The guy that waited on me at Hermitage Lighting actually did a search on Google and found nothing.
Then he called the largest electronic distributor in Nashville and they had nothing and didn't think there was such a thing.






As you can see below this does in-fact exist it's all in knowing where to look and Jason did.




After I did my thing I went back to my local Home Depot here in Franklin ad picked-up the White 3-way switch and installed it.
Then I got the call from Jason and the Link to order exactly what I really was looking for.




As you can see in the picture below the White one does light-up so I left it installed until the Black one arrived last night.




As you will see below KYLE had exactly what I wanted and I installed it today.
It is an exact match to what Jason installed last week with the foyer Remote Lutron Dimmer switch.
Looks very High-Tech like the Lutron.



And guys 1-week from today in the AM hours around 10 am or so Chad B below will be here.





Terry

JVC RS4500 Laser Projector:
My "New" Home Theater Up-Dates with Pictures, March 6th, 2019 .
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/15-ge...st-2018-a.html
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post #162 of 298 Old 12-07-2018, 10:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tigerhonaker View Post
Actually I'm very capable of making the changes to the audio but just decided to stay calm for a week.
I have not yet actually watched a 4K disc as I have put that on hold also until Chad comes next Friday.
When it's really necessary I have taught myself to have patience.
This is one of those times.



Hope you do choose to explore more processors. Its easy to justify the visual results of the 4500 as we know in doing such an upgrade as you have. But it's easy to underestimate the sonic improvements that are also equally as significant with such audio gear. Anyway, I'm not familiar with your local area there by any means, but I would hazard a guess that you'd find a dealer willing to do a demo of at least one of the processors mentioned prior with absolutely no strings attached. Most dealers are pretty motivated when it comes to moving the high end stuff as so many potential buys want to be convinced of the capabilities of these products in their own home on their particular system as opposed to being expected to make that choice in a store's demo room
Actually where I live which is like maybe 25 minutes south of Nashville, TN.
There are no-longer any real brick & mortar A/V stores.
There use to be but when the recession hit those businesses went away and have not come back.
Some sold out and others have went under.

So, as only information I doubt there is any A/V dealer going to have in stock any high-end gear including pre-amp processors.
Just the way it is ……….
What is interesting I live in Franklin, TN. which is Williamson Cnty. which is 1 of the 10 richest counties in the USA.
Things change and as I have said in this post A/V High-End dealers are actually for the most part a thing of the past here.
Terry[/QUOTE]

Oh that's right I forgot you were holding out any viewing any premium content till you Chad had been there. Fair enough I guess in some respects, but bass management is still a fundamental of basic room correction not matter the content.

In regards to high end gear, I was somewhat shocked when you said Nashville held no decent Dealers since the recession. I was comparing to similar sized cities in my part of the world as no point me saying Sydney, a city over 4 mil pop has enough such businesses to choose from and I can get demos living 35 miles out of the city yada yada. But when I compared to a city like Adelaide, a city pop of 2.2 mil, less than Nashville greater area, I already knew there was no issue for folks living down there in having a selection of good hifi. So that prompted me to do a quick a dealer locator check using only McIntosh and low and behold, I see these guys who look to me to stock all the right brands across the board : http://hifibuysnashville.com/brands/. Hope you don't think me a smart arse for doing so but such talk of lack choice or availability in the US (having lived there in the 80's, 25 miles outside NYC), really intrigues me.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OzHDHT View Post
Terry
Oh that's right I forgot you were holding out any viewing any premium content till you Chad had been there.
Fair enough I guess in some respects, but bass management is still a fundamental of basic room correction not matter the content.

In regards to high end gear, I was somewhat shocked when you said Nashville held no decent Dealers since the recession. I was comparing to similar sized cities in my part of the world as no point me saying Sydney, a city over 4 mil pop has enough such businesses to choose from and I can get demos living 35 miles out of the city yada yada. But when I compared to a city like Adelaide, a city pop of 2.2 mil, less than Nashville greater area, I already knew there was no issue for folks living down there in having a selection of good hifi. So that prompted me to do a quick a dealer locator check using only McIntosh and low and behold, I see these guys who look to me to stock all the right brands across the board : http://hifibuysnashville.com/brands/. Hope you don't think me a smart arse for doing so but such talk of lack choice or availability in the US (having lived there in the 80's, 25 miles outside NYC), really intrigues me. [/quote]

Hi Mr. Australia,



I have done business with Hi-fi-Buys in Nashville, TN. in years past.
I also have been to their showroom.
Let me just make a stab at this ……….
That showroom is small and yes it does have (some) Hi-End-Gear in it.
I suppose it might be a place for some customers to do business but I'm not one of them.

Best Buy only like maybe 20 minutes from where I am sitting in what's called the Magnolia area also has High-End-Gear now on display.

I'll put it like this,
I can purchase anything I want easily in A/V and actually being truthful save big-big dollars !!!

But the real concern should and better be ???????????
What A/V Company has qualified techs to install it ???????

That's why I use in Nashville, Tennessee.
I have a very-very long history with the owner (Charles) and his main technician (Jason).
The only real concern I have on this end is getting things installed (Professionally) and if I have any concern they come back and don't ignore me (after the sale).
I have learned over my years anyone or company will take your monies the real problem is to locate a Dealer you can Trust & Depend on.
I was in sales for a great many years in my working career and one of the reasons I was successful was the purchasing Managers Trusted-Me and I Delivered on that Trust.
I can't say the same for the greater majority of car dealerships, performance shops and certainly Audio Video Stores/Dealers including Technicians.
This next thing I say you might find difficult to totally understand but this is the way I see things on this end and the way I operate.


I try my best to do as much business as I possibly can with
When an exception comes up and it did when I purchased the recent JVC RS4500 laser projector from Mike Garrett.
I 1st contacted Charles (Owner) of Wolf Hill Technologies and explained in great detail what and why I wanted to get it from Mike G.
When I had concluded explaining in-depth my reasoning Charles said you should Terry do that and YES I will have my techs come and do the install.
That's the sort of dealer and support I'm referring to above.
Next, if Charles through his Distributors don't have a specific item I'll ask Charles if he minds me then getting it on my own ???
Lastly, in the majority of cases I'll go with what Charles can provide if what he can get will do what I want to do even if it's a different Brand.
I also am willing to spend more cost wise to get as much of my A/V components from him and he knows I can beat his prices almost everytime.
I figure that he takes care of me and continues to support me so waiving the extra cost to me is worth it.
I am what's referred to as an extremely loyal customer and I expect the exact same loyalty from my Audio Video Dealer.


Terry
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JVC RS4500 Laser Projector:
My "New" Home Theater Up-Dates with Pictures, March 6th, 2019 .
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/15-ge...st-2018-a.html

Last edited by tigerhonaker; 12-08-2018 at 07:53 AM.
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post #164 of 298 Old 12-08-2018, 08:57 AM
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Since we are freely recommending ways for you to spend more of your hard earned money , let me add another voice to the subwoofer discussion. While your existing subs are very capable (though they have been around about 12 or 14 years), they are long in the tooth compared to what is now available and to your main speakers. Your speakers are all top of the line but your subs could use an upgrade.

The Mirage don't have much output south of 25Hz. Current subs (primarily ID but others as well) have output into the single digits (for example, I am down 5 db at 7Hz). As you move into more BluRays (1080P and 4K) you will find more and more audio tracks that can and do make use of subterranean bass. Furthermore, your room is quite large. You definitely could use more woofage to be able to get near "reference". My first choice would be 4 Seaton Submersives each with dual opposed 15s. You can find them used a great prices. That would be you a HUGE increase in performance in both sheer output and extension. I am a Seaton fan but there are other excellent choices as well. 4 18's would also be a great place to be - one in each corner or as close as you can get them. For both the SubMersives and the Seaton F18's, you can get a Master/Slave combination to save some $$.

Add this to your upgrade list - but above the new screen !!
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post #165 of 298 Old 12-08-2018, 09:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
Since we are freely recommending ways for you to spend more of your hard earned money , let me add another voice to the subwoofer discussion. While your existing subs are very capable (though they have been around about 12 or 14 years), they are long in the tooth compared to what is now available and to your main speakers. Your speakers are all top of the line but your subs could use an upgrade.

The Mirage don't have much output south of 25Hz. Current subs (primarily ID but others as well) have output into the single digits (for example, I am down 5 db at 7Hz). As you move into more BluRays (1080P and 4K) you will find more and more audio tracks that can and do make use of subterranean bass. Furthermore, your room is quite large. You definitely could use more woofage to be able to get near "reference". My first choice would be 4 Seaton Submersives each with dual opposed 15s. You can find them used a great prices. That would be you a HUGE increase in performance in both sheer output and extension. I am a Seaton fan but there are other excellent choices as well. 4 18's would also be a great place to be - one in each corner or as close as you can get them. For both the SubMersives and the Seaton F18's, you can get a Master/Slave combination to save some $$.

Add this to your upgrade list - but above the new screen !!
Audioguy,


I think you are speaking of the below subs and of course the 120-volt not 240-volt.





https://hometheaterhifi.com/reviews/speaker/subwoofers/seaton-sound-submersive-hpi-subwoofer/




Terry

JVC RS4500 Laser Projector:
My "New" Home Theater Up-Dates with Pictures, March 6th, 2019 .
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/15-ge...st-2018-a.html
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Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
ok ……………


T.

JVC RS4500 Laser Projector:
My "New" Home Theater Up-Dates with Pictures, March 6th, 2019 .
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/15-ge...st-2018-a.html

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Quote:
Originally Posted by tigerhonaker View Post
Oh that's right I forgot you were holding out any viewing any premium content till you Chad had been there.
Fair enough I guess in some respects, but bass management is still a fundamental of basic room correction not matter the content.

In regards to high end gear, I was somewhat shocked when you said Nashville held no decent Dealers since the recession. I was comparing to similar sized cities in my part of the world as no point me saying Sydney, a city over 4 mil pop has enough such businesses to choose from and I can get demos living 35 miles out of the city yada yada. But when I compared to a city like Adelaide, a city pop of 2.2 mil, less than Nashville greater area, I already knew there was no issue for folks living down there in having a selection of good hifi. So that prompted me to do a quick a dealer locator check using only McIntosh and low and behold, I see these guys who look to me to stock all the right brands across the board : http://hifibuysnashville.com/brands/. Hope you don't think me a smart arse for doing so but such talk of lack choice or availability in the US (having lived there in the 80's, 25 miles outside NYC), really intrigues me.
Hi Mr. Australia,



I have done business with Hi-fi-Buys in Nashville, TN. in years past.
I also have been to their showroom.
Let me just make a stab at this ……….
That showroom is small and yes it does have (some) Hi-End-Gear in it.
I suppose it might be a place for some customers to do business but I'm not one of them.

Best Buy only like maybe 20 minutes from where I am sitting in what's called the Magnolia area also has High-End-Gear now on display.

I'll put it like this,
I can purchase anything I want easily in A/V and actually being truthful save big-big dollars !!!

But the real concern should and better be ???????????
What A/V Company has qualified techs to install it ???????

That's why I use in Nashville, Tennessee.
I have a very-very long history with the owner (Charles) and his main technician (Jason).
The only real concern I have on this end is getting things installed (Professionally) and if I have any concern they come back and don't ignore me (after the sale).
I have learned over my years anyone or company will take your monies the real problem is to locate a Dealer you can Trust & Depend on.
I was in sales for a great many years in my working career and one of the reasons I was successful was the purchasing Managers Trusted-Me and I Delivered on that Trust.
I can't say the same for the greater majority of car dealerships, performance shops and certainly Audio Video Stores/Dealers including Technicians.
This next thing I say you might find difficult to totally understand but this is the way I see things on this end and the way I operate.


I try my best to do as much business as I possibly can with
When an exception comes up and it did when I purchased the recent JVC RS4500 laser projector from Mike Garrett.
I 1st contacted Charles (Owner) of Wolf Hill Technologies and explained in great detail what and why I wanted to get it from Mike G.
When I had concluded explaining in-depth my reasoning Charles said you should Terry do that and YES I will have my techs come and do the install.
That's the sort of dealer and support I'm referring to above.
Next, if Charles through his Distributors don't have a specific item I'll ask Charles if he minds me then getting it on my own ???
Lastly, in the majority of cases I'll go with what Charles can provide if what he can get will do what I want to do even if it's a different Brand.
I also am willing to spend more cost wise to get as much of my A/V components from him and he knows I can beat his prices almost everytime.
I figure that he takes care of me and continues to support me so waiving the extra cost to me is worth it.
I am what's referred to as an extremely loyal customer and I expect the exact same loyalty from my Audio Video Dealer.


Terry
[/QUOTE]




Hi Terry, love your cute reference there lol (along with the time you take with added detail in your posts such as gifs etc.)! God bless the U.S. of A. !


If can add another perspective to the whole dealer (loyalty) thing. As a hifi and HT enthusiast for 28 years or so years, I as much as I admire your customer loyalty you express, I know I couldn't have experienced all of the equipment I have or been able to get to build what I today taking that approach. I have a really nice shop in my area, family owned, lovely people -even have done business with my own business. However, they can unfortunately only cater to the local market's spending levels and must compete directly with the big box stores as well. So whilst there's the odd player here and their or amp brand they've been able to source via distributor relationship me they don't directly stock say, they don't have access to the higher level stuff I have these days. On the other when I travel up the road to the 'big smoke' I've had a few experiences over time. I also have a direct relationship with a distributor of some good hifi makes, which has helped me greatly over the years with speakers and few brands of gear like Meridian, Integra, and Audioquest. I also did have what I considered a trusted dealer up there for a good many years until one of the owners parted ways and I ended getting burned pretty badly on some expensive Lyngdorf gear pre the newer stuff they do thanks to what ended up a 18 month delay on a product launch, then having to sell the house the gear was in and having to consign it with said dealer only to see pittance come back on the whole system (long a boring story which you can find around the traps here, but I seriously won't bore you with it). They had from time to time also occasionally sourced a brand they didn't normally carry for me. So that ended that long term dealer relationship for me. Fortunately, I was put on to another good dealer in another area by a good installer mate of mine. I've so far only dealt with these guys for a few things like subs and processors for one of my other installs and more recently just ordered a UB9000 player. This particular dealer is one I haven't even every shook the hand of personally by visiting but they always get the gear to me and really look after me. In some cases, due to really bad distribution, I've had to bite the bullet and self import stuff in order to make things like the MX160 worth buying (they retail circa $19.5K here). So all in all my dealer experience is about who I can work with to build what I need, loyalty alone might get me part way, but not across the line I'm afraid. If your guys 'Wolf Hill Technologies' have the somewhat rare ability to source outside their normal brand affiliations, that's super handy. I'd only add it doesn't really help in the demo-ing equipment for a manufacturer not carried. If I was dealing with a distributor of McIntosh or Lyngdorf, I'd want to see them qualified in customer set up, I know the dealer I used in the Lyndorf example most definitely was and wouldn't have secured local distribution otherwise from the factory. It's pretty much a per-requisite from those sorts of companys, Datasat being another example where it's way beyond the realms , expected of any customer to have the system set up dumped in their lap.


Anyway, when time comes, the mood strikes, etc., I'm sure someone will be able to sort you out. I just stand by my recommendation to keep a open mind in regards to such next stage audio, much like you did with the 4500
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Last edited by OzHDHT; 12-09-2018 at 03:01 AM.
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post #169 of 298 Old 12-09-2018, 05:36 AM
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Hey Terry,

I will also put a plug in for Deep Sea Sound.

He is based here in Knoxville Tennessee and also makes an excellent 18" sub.
Currently I am using three of the 18" Marianas and two of the 24".

@dgage can chime in and give you any information you might need.

Either way, Seaton and Deep Sea Sound, you will be thrilled with the increase in performance these subs will give you.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OzHDHT View Post
Hi Mr. Australia,



I have done business with Hi-fi-Buys in Nashville, TN. in years past.
I also have been to their showroom.
Let me just make a stab at this ……….
That showroom is small and yes it does have (some) Hi-End-Gear in it.
I suppose it might be a place for some customers to do business but I'm not one of them.

Best Buy only like maybe 20 minutes from where I am sitting in what's called the Magnolia area also has High-End-Gear now on display.

I'll put it like this,
I can purchase anything I want easily in A/V and actually being truthful save big-big dollars !!!

But the real concern should and better be ???????????
What A/V Company has qualified techs to install it ???????

That's why I use in Nashville, Tennessee.
I have a very-very long history with the owner (Charles) and his main technician (Jason).
The only real concern I have on this end is getting things installed (Professionally) and if I have any concern they come back and don't ignore me (after the sale).
I have learned over my years anyone or company will take your monies the real problem is to locate a Dealer you can Trust & Depend on.
I was in sales for a great many years in my working career and one of the reasons I was successful was the purchasing Managers Trusted-Me and I Delivered on that Trust.
I can't say the same for the greater majority of car dealerships, performance shops and certainly Audio Video Stores/Dealers including Technicians.
This next thing I say you might find difficult to totally understand but this is the way I see things on this end and the way I operate.


I try my best to do as much business as I possibly can with
When an exception comes up and it did when I purchased the recent JVC RS4500 laser projector from Mike Garrett.
I 1st contacted Charles (Owner) of Wolf Hill Technologies and explained in great detail what and why I wanted to get it from Mike G.
When I had concluded explaining in-depth my reasoning Charles said you should Terry do that and YES I will have my techs come and do the install.
That's the sort of dealer and support I'm referring to above.
Next, if Charles through his Distributors don't have a specific item I'll ask Charles if he minds me then getting it on my own ???
Lastly, in the majority of cases I'll go with what Charles can provide if what he can get will do what I want to do even if it's a different Brand.
I also am willing to spend more cost wise to get as much of my A/V components from him and he knows I can beat his prices almost everytime.
I figure that he takes care of me and continues to support me so waiving the extra cost to me is worth it.
I am what's referred to as an extremely loyal customer and I expect the exact same loyalty from my Audio Video Dealer.


Terry



Quote:
Hi Terry, love your cute reference there lol (along with the time you take with added detail in your posts such as gifs etc.)! God bless the U.S. of A. !


If can add another perspective to the whole dealer (loyalty) thing. As a hifi and HT enthusiast for 28 years or so years, I as much as I admire your customer loyalty you express, I know I couldn't have experienced all of the equipment I have or been able to get to build what I today taking that approach. I have a really nice shop in my area, family owned, lovely people -even have done business with my own business. However, they can unfortunately only cater to the local market's spending levels and must compete directly with the big box stores as well. So whilst there's the odd player here and their or amp brand they've been able to source via distributor relationship me they don't directly stock say, they don't have access to the higher level stuff I have these days. On the other when I travel up the road to the 'big smoke' I've had a few experiences over time. I also have a direct relationship with a distributor of some good hifi makes, which has helped me greatly over the years with speakers and few brands of gear like Meridian, Integra, and Audioquest. I also did have what I considered a trusted dealer up there for a good many years until one of the owners parted ways and I ended getting burned pretty badly on some expensive Lyngdorf gear pre the newer stuff they do thanks to what ended up a 18 month delay on a product launch, then having to sell the house the gear was in and having to consign it with said dealer only to see pittance come back on the whole system (long a boring story which you can find around the traps here, but I seriously won't bore you with it). They had from time to time also occasionally sourced a brand they didn't normally carry for me. So that ended that long term dealer relationship for me. Fortunately, I was put on to another good dealer in another area by a good installer mate of mine. I've so far only dealt with these guys for a few things like subs and processors for one of my other installs and more recently just ordered a UB9000 player. This particular dealer is one I haven't even every shook the hand of personally by visiting but they always get the gear to me and really look after me. In some cases, due to really bad distribution, I've had to bite the bullet and self import stuff in order to make things like the MX160 worth buying (they retail circa $19.5K here). So all in all my dealer experience is about who I can work with to build what I need, loyalty alone might get me part way, but not across the line I'm afraid. If your guys 'Wolf Hill Technologies' have the somewhat rare ability to source outside their normal brand affiliations, that's super handy. I'd only add it doesn't really help in the demo-ing equipment for a manufacturer not carried. If I was dealing with a distributor of McIntosh or Lyngdorf, I'd want to see them qualified in customer set up, I know the dealer I used in the Lyndorf example most definitely was and wouldn't have secured local distribution otherwise from the factory. It's pretty much a per-requisite from those sorts of companys, Datasat being another example where it's way beyond the realms , expected of any customer to have the system set up dumped in their lap.


Anyway, when time comes, the mood strikes, etc., I'm sure someone will be able to sort you out. I just stand by my recommendation to keep a open mind in regards to such next stage audio, much like you did with the 4500
I know we are talking from each other from different Countries but I think for the most part we understand one another.

Moving on I totally follow you on how and why you operate the way you do for your A/V gear/components.

In my case I am much more flexible at this age than I was when younger.
And with me saying the above I don't mind making compromises to try my best to work with my local A/V Dealer.
This might actually come across as somewhat strange to another person but as long as my H/T system works for me and it does.
I really No-Longer care if it has or comprises the Latest/Greatest High-End A/V gear.
To add to what I just said ............
The reason I pursued aggressively the JVC RS4500 was because my Runco manufacturer was purchased by a Chinese Corporation.
Immediately that Chinese Corp. dropped the Runco complete brand !!!
So if my Runco would have stopped working I would have been placed in a very bad position to have to replace it at whatever cost.
Mike Garrett and I had stayed in touch overtime so when the New (Demo) RS4500 came on the market from AVS Inc. I purchased it.
It was actually more of a necessity than me just wanting to spend thousands & thousands of dollars.
The other up-dates I have done have also been done because of me getting the RS4500.
The actual timing on all of this was not really what we wanted or actually had in mind.
We didn't want to do what we just did until the same time frame in 2019 NOT 2018.
Luckily and I do say luckily and mean that 100% we had the financial means to do it even though as I said it was not really what we wanted to do.

Next,
Ultra High-End gear/components to me are really not all that important or a big-deal to me.
I want the Audio portion of my HT to perform well and I also want the Video to do likewise.
But personally if things are working as they should and performing as they should.
It's doubtful I'm going to jump up and give away thousands of dollars of gear to someone else and then spend even more monies to replace what I just gave away that was working just fine.
I'm attempting to say there is always better and what any logical (Medium-Class-Person) regardless of Country origin should simply calm down and ask ???
What is going to be the real noticeable difference to me if I make the decision to do whatever it is ???
At some point my thinking is, be happy we have what we do and enjoy the same if like I said we are speaking of a (Normal-Income-Person).
For the Rich & Famous of course they can and in some cases do change just for the sake of saying to their other Super-Wealthy-Friends.
Drop by and take a look at what I just got and had installed.


Quote:
Originally Posted by COACH2369 View Post
Hey Terry,

I will also put a plug in for Deep Sea Sound.

He is based here in Knoxville Tennessee and also makes an excellent 18" sub.
Currently I am using three of the 18" Marianas and two of the 24".

@dgage can chime in and give you any information you might need.

Either way, Seaton and Deep Sea Sound, you will be thrilled with the increase in performance these subs will give you.
I appreciate the input for sure.

Thanks for the information.

Terry

JVC RS4500 Laser Projector:
My "New" Home Theater Up-Dates with Pictures, March 6th, 2019 .
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/15-ge...st-2018-a.html

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Originally Posted by tigerhonaker View Post
Next,
Ultra High-End gear/components to me are really not all that important or a big-deal to me.
I want the Audio portion of my HT to perform well and I also want the Video to do likewise.
But personally if things are working as they should and performing as they should.
It's doubtful I'm going to jump up and give away thousands of dollars of gear to someone else and then spend even more monies to replace what I just gave away that was working just fine.
I'm attempting to say there is always better and what any logical (Medium-Class-Person) regardless of Country origin should simply calm down and ask ???
What is going to be the real noticeable difference to me if I make the decision to do whatever it is ???
At some point my thinking is, be happy we have what we do and enjoy the same if like I said we are speaking of a (Normal-Income-Person).
For the Rich & Famous of course they can and in some cases do change just for the sake of saying to their other Super-Wealthy-Friends.
Drop by and take a look at what I just got and had installed.

I appreciate the input for sure.

Thanks for the information.

Terry

Just one last thought Terry. When you generalise about 'Ultra-high end gear' you make it sound it bit like it's money spent for the sake if it akin to the 'snake oil' that is associated with ultra high end cables of all sorts. I can assure you I personally have little interest in the 'ultra' side of higher end gear, especially not in HT, let alone in general 2ch hifi. That stuff is just out there period. However, the advance room correction formats like Room Perfect and Dirac that come with the next price point of surround processors completely different. You are paying for the license to these RC systems. The only proprietary one which is which is put into more reasonable gear is ARC made in house by Anthem and used across their other brands. I still wouldn't necessarily put up there with Room Perfect or Dirac though. Honorable mention goes to the implementation of Dirac in the Emotiva XMC processor for its price point. If you haven't heard Room Perfect or Dirac next to Audyssey, do yourself a favor and put it on your shortlist of HT things to check out next, you will thank me I swear ..
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Terry: +1 to the above statement except that Dirac is superior to Room Perfect. Audyssey vs Dirac: NO comparison. Not even close.

Prior to buying my previous processor (Dirac based Datasat RS20i) I was allowed to borrow the Dealer's RS20i for several months (I do work for him). At the time I had an Audyssey based Marantz. We built a switch box using XLR inputs (at the time, I was 7.1) so that we could take the 8 XLR inputs from the two processors with a single set of outputs to my amps and speakers. We then level matched the speakers to within .1 of a dB. They were actually closer than that but that was the granularity of the measurement tool. The switch box was in the equipment room behind a wall so the listener had no idea what processor we were listening to. If you care to read the nitty gritty of the blind testing, go HERE.

Here is the very, very short version: First up was the two processors without their respective room correction systems. VERY tough to tell the difference BLIND (but much easier sighted !!). We are talking about a $2500 processor vs a $25,000 processor. We "leaned" toward the Datasat but did not do so consistently enough to qualify statistically. We used 2 channel music, surround music, movies, etc.

We then enabled the room correction systems, and still level matched. Blind was not necessary. It was soooo obvious that one was so much better than the other - and of course, it was the RS20i/Dirac. EVERYTHING about the presentation was better: bass impact and clarity; cohesiveness as sound moved around the room; the overall sense of envelopment; vocal clarity. I could go on. I did not want that to be the case since I did not really want to spend that kind of money. But the differences were anything but subtle.

When I purchased the Trinnov, I sold the Datasat to a local person. He also had a Audyssey based Marantz (but much newer than what I had) and his comment after living with the unit for 24 hours: "I have lived in this room for 10 years and it is like a brand new perfect room with brand new perfect everything. Unrecognizable from what I just replaced".

Terry, Dirac is way, way, way better ...... and I mean way better than Audyssey. The Emotiva Dirac based product, calibrated correctly, will simply blow away your Marantz. You don't need to spend $17,000 or $25,000 to get that sound. I think the Emotiva is about $5K. Totally different league.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OzHDHT View Post
Just one last thought Terry. When you generalise about 'Ultra-high end gear' you make it sound it bit like it's money spent for the sake if it akin to the 'snake oil' that is associated with ultra high end cables of all sorts. I can assure you I personally have little interest in the 'ultra' side of higher end gear, especially not in HT, let alone in general 2ch hifi. That stuff is just out there period. However, the advance room correction formats like Room Perfect and Dirac that come with the next price point of surround processors completely different. You are paying for the license to these RC systems. The only proprietary one which is which is put into more reasonable gear is ARC made in house by Anthem and used across their other brands. I still wouldn't necessarily put up there with Room Perfect or Dirac though. Honorable mention goes to the implementation of Dirac in the Emotiva XMC processor for its price point. If you haven't heard Room Perfect or Dirac next to Audyssey, do yourself a favor and put it on your shortlist of HT things to check out next, you will thank me I swear ..
Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
Terry: +1 to the above statement except that Dirac is superior to Room Perfect. Audyssey vs Dirac: NO comparison. Not even close.

Prior to buying my previous processor (Dirac based Datasat RS20i) I was allowed to borrow the Dealer's RS20i for several months (I do work for him). At the time I had an Audyssey based Marantz. We built a switch box using XLR inputs (at the time, I was 7.1) so that we could take the 8 XLR inputs from the two processors with a single set of outputs to my amps and speakers. We then level matched the speakers to within .1 of a dB. They were actually closer than that but that was the granularity of the measurement tool. The switch box was in the equipment room behind a wall so the listener had no idea what processor we were listening to. If you care to read the nitty gritty of the blind testing, go HERE.

Here is the very, very short version: First up was the two processors without their respective room correction systems. VERY tough to tell the difference BLIND (but much easier sighted !!). We are talking about a $2500 processor vs a $25,000 processor. We "leaned" toward the Datasat but did not do so consistently enough to qualify statistically. We used 2 channel music, surround music, movies, etc.

We then enabled the room correction systems, and still level matched. Blind was not necessary. It was soooo obvious that one was so much better than the other - and of course, it was the RS20i/Dirac. EVERYTHING about the presentation was better: bass impact and clarity; cohesiveness as sound moved around the room; the overall sense of envelopment; vocal clarity. I could go on. I did not want that to be the case since I did not really want to spend that kind of money. But the differences were anything but subtle.

When I purchased the Trinnov, I sold the Datasat to a local person. He also had a Audyssey based Marantz (but much newer than what I had) and his comment after living with the unit for 24 hours: "I have lived in this room for 10 years and it is like a brand new perfect room with brand new perfect everything. Unrecognizable from what I just replaced".

Terry, Dirac is way, way, way better ...... and I mean way better than Audyssey. The Emotiva Dirac based product, calibrated correctly, will simply blow away your Marantz. You don't need to spend $17,000 or $25,000 to get that sound. I think the Emotiva is about $5K. Totally different league.
Well guys I have read what you both have said and in my case I can't really make any logical comment and below is why i say that.
I have not a clue fellows as you guys are way-way over this fellow's knowledge base and that's me just saying it like it is.

Chad will be here this Friday to do both Audio & Video Custom Calibrations.
I will hopefully (Fingers-Crossed) be Happy with the results.
Below is the last information I have received from Chad on what he is going to be doing for my HT.

Quote:
Sent: Tue, Dec 4, 2018 9:41 pm
Subject: RE: Calibration request Terry Honaker

Thanks for the info Terry. The 8805 will be the advanced audio calibration with Audyssey app rather than the Audyssey Pro (Pro has been phased out in favor of the app based calibration). I will need the Audyssey mic that came with it, and I will use that plus my own calibrated mic. The audio calibration is $450, and you will get a $50 discount for doing audio and video together, so it will be $850 total.

Chad
HDTVbyChadB.com
937-570-3361 (scheduling) 937-267-6073 (technical)
Hey fellows it's not that I don't appreciate your input it's more that as things are currently is the way they are going to be for sometime.
Even if there are far-far better A/V gear/components out there.

Terry

JVC RS4500 Laser Projector:
My "New" Home Theater Up-Dates with Pictures, March 6th, 2019 .
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/15-ge...st-2018-a.html
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Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
Terry: +1 to the above statement except that Dirac is superior to Room Perfect. Audyssey vs Dirac: NO comparison. Not even close.

Prior to buying my previous processor (Dirac based Datasat RS20i) I was allowed to borrow the Dealer's RS20i for several months (I do work for him). At the time I had an Audyssey based Marantz. We built a switch box using XLR inputs (at the time, I was 7.1) so that we could take the 8 XLR inputs from the two processors with a single set of outputs to my amps and speakers. We then level matched the speakers to within .1 of a dB. They were actually closer than that but that was the granularity of the measurement tool. The switch box was in the equipment room behind a wall so the listener had no idea what processor we were listening to. If you care to read the nitty gritty of the blind testing, go HERE.

Here is the very, very short version: First up was the two processors without their respective room correction systems. VERY tough to tell the difference BLIND (but much easier sighted !!). We are talking about a $2500 processor vs a $25,000 processor. We "leaned" toward the Datasat but did not do so consistently enough to qualify statistically. We used 2 channel music, surround music, movies, etc.

We then enabled the room correction systems, and still level matched. Blind was not necessary. It was soooo obvious that one was so much better than the other - and of course, it was the RS20i/Dirac. EVERYTHING about the presentation was better: bass impact and clarity; cohesiveness as sound moved around the room; the overall sense of envelopment; vocal clarity. I could go on. I did not want that to be the case since I did not really want to spend that kind of money. But the differences were anything but subtle.

When I purchased the Trinnov, I sold the Datasat to a local person. He also had a Audyssey based Marantz (but much newer than what I had) and his comment after living with the unit for 24 hours: "I have lived in this room for 10 years and it is like a brand new perfect room with brand new perfect everything. Unrecognizable from what I just replaced".

Terry, Dirac is way, way, way better ...... and I mean way better than Audyssey. The Emotiva Dirac based product, calibrated correctly, will simply blow away your Marantz. You don't need to spend $17,000 or $25,000 to get that sound. I think the Emotiva is about $5K. Totally different league.

Have you auditioned Room Perfect vs Dirac in the same room? I'd say it's far from a 'lay down misere' between the two RC's. I've certainly got no desire to drop my MX160 for anything Datasat, Theta, or Trinnov. Both McIntosh and Lyngdorf are doing fairly regular software updates as well which from time to time also bring sonic improvements. The most recent one did just that. Best guy I know who's got a foot in both camps @joerod , I believe would agree here.



I mentioned the Emotiva too. I was bit hesitant to fully recommend their processor, but that's more a perception of there being issues with them. Only unit I caution people away from after experience is the Arcam which is a receiver anyway.



Good to see we both see eye to eye regarding Dirac (and can't leave R.P. out of it), wiping the floor with Audyssey.

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OzHDHT,

I'm sure you are discussing the above with Audioguy ^^^

I'll let you guys handle the Audio discussion as I personally don't have a clue as to what your really discussing.

In my case I'm sticking with my new Marantz AV8805 and it will be with me for what I hope is a great many years.
The only thing I'm actually wanting is for the audio portion of my HT (Home Theater) to perform as well as it can for the components I have.
Chad B. will be arriving in roughly 30-minutes or so and doing his multiple custom calibrations to the audio & video.
I'm going to keep the Faith as some say until I am proven incorrect on what my system will end up sounding like.

You know the other thing I have been into since the mid 60's is Muscle Cars.
And if you don't have a problem believing me when I post that I'm telling it like it is.
I have had way-way-way more performance cars over all the years that have passed than a fellow probably has the right to.
Now to the point, one has to know when to STOP with modifying/changing things on a car and I am of the opinion the same holds true for A/V.
I think at this point in my life I'm bringing the A/V (Audio/Video) to a screeching HALT after Atmos is added at some point in time.
It's not that I don't realize there are superior products out there but do I personally need them ???
My response is, nope I don't need the absolute best as long as the overall performance of my Home Theater meets or exceeds my expectations.

In cars there is always FASTER ...........
In Home Theater there is always BETTER ..........


Terry

JVC RS4500 Laser Projector:
My "New" Home Theater Up-Dates with Pictures, March 6th, 2019 .
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/15-ge...st-2018-a.html

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Thumbs up This is going to be a Very-Very-"FANTASTIC" day guys ........

Greetings AVS,

Well things have already started taking place here in Franklin, TN.

Chad B arrived right on time but that's probably not a big surprise to anyone that has had him do his Custom Calibrations.

I did have a sit down with Chad and we talked about what I really wanted for him to do for both the Audio & Video.
Thank goodness he has been doing this since way back in 2002 so my Non-Exacting Terminology was no issue.
I will say this he is very-very-easy to speak with even if your not an expert on describing what your hoping he can do for you.
And if your wondering Chad will ask you if he doesn't clearly understand what your really asking and wanting the results to be.
He will also make suggestions once he gets the general idea of what you really are describing.

I don't think Chad will mind me mentioning the following regarding how he actually (Prefers-to-Work) after you cover with him what your Concerns/Wishes/Wants/Preferences etc. are.
Type up your Bullitt-Points and even Number those so you can run everything by him.
Then guy/guys say Good-Bye and Go-Away !!!
Chad will come get you when he has completed everything and if he does have a question he will come get you.
If the above in BOLD is UN-Clear let me say it My-Way, leave the guy alone and let him concentrate on what your paying him to do.
Okay, I think the above two (2) BOLD statements should suffice to tell anyone what the guy actually prefers.

Here is Chad as he arrived in the driveway around 10 am this morning.




















Thanks to Chad B Christmas is going to be so "AWESOME"


JVC RS4500 Laser Projector:
My "New" Home Theater Up-Dates with Pictures, March 6th, 2019 .
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/15-ge...st-2018-a.html

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Hi Terry,


Great that Chad B is doing his thing. I'm jealous as he likely won't be coming to Texas to do my gear until the March/April time frame. I really look forward to hearing about the results of the calibrations.


That kind of work requires deep concentration, so I am not all that surprised that Chad prefers to be left alone while working. Good to know, however, that he is a friendly guy who is easy to talk with.


With regard to the extremely high-end home theater gear I am in agreement with you that at some point one just has to stop. Your car analogy was an excellent one. I can relate to upgrading just for the joy of owning the latest and greatest but at some point the budget calls for a halt to avoid a never-ending money pit for minor, possibly imperceptible, improvements.


Have a great day my friend, knowing that your Video and Audio systems are being tweaked to the utmost!


Cheers,
Tom
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Originally Posted by Elegant View Post
Hi Terry,

Great that Chad B is doing his thing. I'm jealous as he likely won't be coming to Texas to do my gear until the March/April time frame.
I really look forward to hearing about the results of the calibrations.

Tom, I do know now after talking with him he is super busy.
Your right it might be March/April.
Based on my conversation with him it's going to be well worth the wait.
Well it is for me but in your case I don't know your system might very well be very close already ???

Mine is NOT !!!


That kind of work requires deep concentration, so I am not all that surprised that Chad prefers to be left alone while working. Good to know, however, that he is a friendly guy who is easy to talk with.

Yes, on Chad Wanting/Preferring to get all the request/concerns then the owner going totally away and staying away until Chad comes and gets the person.
You know me and how I post with keeping what I say, Down-to-Earth & Factual buddy.


With regard to the extremely high-end home theater gear I am in agreement with you that at some point one just has to stop. Your car analogy was an excellent one. I can relate to upgrading just for the joy of owning the latest and greatest but at some point the budget calls for a halt to avoid a never-ending money pit for minor, possibly imperceptible, improvements.

Well I tried picking something to use as an example that other guys might be able to relate to.
My point is simple .......
Get the best one can afford, get it all Professionally calibrated and then enjoy the HT System.
Unless a person has just loads and loads on monies and does not even remotely care about cost ???
Then IMO the majority of people are going to have to decide at some point when is enough, enough ???


Have a great day my friend, knowing that your Video and Audio systems are being tweaked to the utmost!

I have a great deal of confidence in Chad's ability already.
He figured out a few things almost instantly with my system in regards to the audio.
I'm actually more concerned over the audio really this time around as the video.

I think honestly after seeing him in ACTION for like maybe 5-minutes I'm going to have what I will call a "FANTASTIC" Christmas


Cheers,
Tom
Nice to hear from you buddy,
Terry

JVC RS4500 Laser Projector:
My "New" Home Theater Up-Dates with Pictures, March 6th, 2019 .
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/15-ge...st-2018-a.html

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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
Terry: +1 to the above statement except that Dirac is superior to Room Perfect. Audyssey vs Dirac: NO comparison. Not even close.

Prior to buying my previous processor (Dirac based Datasat RS20i) I was allowed to borrow the Dealer's RS20i for several months (I do work for him). At the time I had an Audyssey based Marantz. We built a switch box using XLR inputs (at the time, I was 7.1) so that we could take the 8 XLR inputs from the two processors with a single set of outputs to my amps and speakers. We then level matched the speakers to within .1 of a dB. They were actually closer than that but that was the granularity of the measurement tool. The switch box was in the equipment room behind a wall so the listener had no idea what processor we were listening to. If you care to read the nitty gritty of the blind testing, go HERE.

Here is the very, very short version: First up was the two processors without their respective room correction systems. VERY tough to tell the difference BLIND (but much easier sighted !!). We are talking about a $2500 processor vs a $25,000 processor. We "leaned" toward the Datasat but did not do so consistently enough to qualify statistically. We used 2 channel music, surround music, movies, etc.

We then enabled the room correction systems, and still level matched. Blind was not necessary. It was soooo obvious that one was so much better than the other - and of course, it was the RS20i/Dirac. EVERYTHING about the presentation was better: bass impact and clarity; cohesiveness as sound moved around the room; the overall sense of envelopment; vocal clarity. I could go on. I did not want that to be the case since I did not really want to spend that kind of money. But the differences were anything but subtle.

When I purchased the Trinnov, I sold the Datasat to a local person. He also had a Audyssey based Marantz (but much newer than what I had) and his comment after living with the unit for 24 hours: "I have lived in this room for 10 years and it is like a brand new perfect room with brand new perfect everything. Unrecognizable from what I just replaced".

Terry, Dirac is way, way, way better ...... and I mean way better than Audyssey. The Emotiva Dirac based product, calibrated correctly, will simply blow away your Marantz. You don't need to spend $17,000 or $25,000 to get that sound. I think the Emotiva is about $5K. Totally different league.
I used Audyssey for years, but was never happy, with not being able to make any adjustments to the curve and in getting rid of the midrange compensation dip. My speakers are baffle wall mounted, so I did not want or need the dip. I used Dirac in my room for a year. I was happy with it, but when I wanted to go to Atmos, it required a change. With the advent of the Audyssey APP, it eliminated all of my real complaints on Audyssey. I can now have a custom curve and I got rid of the midrange compensation dip. I think it would have been interesting to compare after matching the Audyssey response from 57hz down and getting rid of the midrange compensation dip. That 4 to 5db that Audyssey was down in your room at 57hz and down, had to have quite a bit of impact in the listening. Of course I am looking at testing from 2014 and it has taken Audyssey several years to add this feature. Back then you would have had to use the Audyssey Pro to make these changes. Anyway, it was a good read and loved your approach to the problem.

I use the Harman target curve on my LCR's.
https://www.innerfidelity.com/conten...r-target-curve
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post #180 of 298 Old 12-14-2018, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
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I used Audyssey for years, but was never happy, with not being able to make any adjustments to the curve and in getting rid of the midrange compensation dip. My speakers are baffle wall mounted, so I did not want or need the dip. I used Dirac in my room for a year. I was happy with it, but when I wanted to go to Atmos, it required a change. With the advent of the Audyssey APP, it eliminated all of my real complaints on Audyssey. I can now have a custom curve and I got rid of the midrange compensation dip. I think it would have been interesting to compare after matching the Audyssey response from 57hz down and getting rid of the midrange compensation dip. That 4 to 5db that Audyssey was down in your room at 57hz and down, had to have quite a bit of impact in the listening. Of course I am looking at testing from 2014 and it has taken Audyssey several years to add this feature. Back then you would have had to use the Audyssey Pro to make these changes. Anyway, it was a good read and loved your approach to the problem.

I use the Harman target curve on my LCR's.
https://www.innerfidelity.com/conten...r-target-curve
I was using Audyssey Pro when I did the compare and has been for many years. Still was inferior to Dirac. The guy that bought my RS20i replaced his Audyssey Pro unit as well. No contest. Not even close. He has another home where he installed a used Datasat LS10 to replace another Audyssey Pro unit (Marantz 7703 or something like that). Same results. Dirac and Optimizer (Trinnov) are far superior to Audyssey.

My target curve is VERY close to the Harmon curve but I fall of a bit faster north of 10K Hz.
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