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post #1 of 21 Old 05-25-2019, 06:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Pre-Build Dreaming

I'm about 6 weeks from my basement finish starting - between work and kid on the way, I'm hiring it out. I have family who own a home theater business who want to help me out but am trying to do as much on my own as possible! Took my wife to the Magnolia demo room at one of the Best Buy's in Kansas City; even she was impressed.

Facts:
Epson 5050 - already purchased to take advantage of recent deal; unopened while I consider my options and make sure this is what I actually want
2.35:1 135" AT screen - space is limited so AT helps there and with WAF
5.1.4 - in-wall for LCR and surrounds - space and WAF to consider; 7.1.4 just not in the cards with my rear wall
~18' from lens to screen - 5050 seems solid for this distance and 135" from all the calculators I see
~12' viewing distance for MLP

Questions:
  • Sound "proofing" - my office will also be down here so I want to limit foot noise from above as much as possible. Fairly confident will be moving forward with insulation,double drywall, and green glue. Does not need to be sound proof. Soundproofing is such a huge overwhelming topic, and I really just want something that balances cost and benefit.
  • Picture with red box shows behind seating area. I plan on having the small AV rack here because I won't have much equipment - having a heck of a time finding what AV rack to put here though. Contractor offered to build a shelf but I worry about cooling. Keeping the AV rack here also provides less than ten foot run to the projector.
  • Conduit - want to run conduit everywhere possible! But what kind? How much is too much?
  • Seating - I'm such a visual person, I can't imagine buying furniture without trying it out myself!
  • Do I have room for two subwoofers? Sure I do, right!? Okay, do I have the money for two subwoofers...

Excited for the build - the constant reviewing and researching and revisions may drive me crazy though.
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post #2 of 21 Old 05-26-2019, 08:25 AM
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Looks like fun.

I would be thinking CIH+IMAX in my screen sizing with a single row of seating there is no down side. IMAX Enhanced is coming why not be ready.

Watch Aquaman or Dunkirk before you decide.

Bud
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post #3 of 21 Old 05-26-2019, 10:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Looks like fun.

I would be thinking CIH+IMAX in my screen sizing with a single row of seating there is no down side. IMAX Enhanced is coming why not be ready.

Watch Aquaman or Dunkirk before you decide.
Excuse my lack of knowledge (despite my research obsession)... If I'm understanding right, you're saying just go with the 16:9 that has the same width as the 2.35 assuming that I have the room for the height?

According to projectorscreen's web site (can't post links yet!), a 142" 16:9 is the same width as a 135" 2.35... So if I bump up to a 145" 16:9, I'd have a 71" tall screen which would nearly fill the wall top to bottom but would work.

From projector central for the 5050, it looks like the 5050 can handle the throw distance and that size of a screen. Question 1:if we're throwing at 20' and sitting at 12', will our heads or chairs be in the way of the projection for that tall of a screen.

Last question - will 2.35 movies on the 16:9 screen using a 5050 work without masking? I have read that the 5050 has blanking, but if I have a 2.35 movie on a 16:9 screen, I'm guessing you don't want to use the blanking. Am I on the right track? More thinking to be done it sounds like!
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post #4 of 21 Old 05-26-2019, 07:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsharp View Post
Excuse my lack of knowledge (despite my research obsession)... If I'm understanding right, you're saying just go with the 16:9 that has the same width as the 2.35 assuming that I have the room for the height?

According to projectorscreen's web site (can't post links yet!), a 142" 16:9 is the same width as a 135" 2.35... So if I bump up to a 145" 16:9, I'd have a 71" tall screen which would nearly fill the wall top to bottom but would work.

From projector central for the 5050, it looks like the 5050 can handle the throw distance and that size of a screen. Question 1:if we're throwing at 20' and sitting at 12', will our heads or chairs be in the way of the projection for that tall of a screen.

Last question - will 2.35 movies on the 16:9 screen using a 5050 work without masking? I have read that the 5050 has blanking, but if I have a 2.35 movie on a 16:9 screen, I'm guessing you don't want to use the blanking. Am I on the right track? More thinking to be done it sounds like!
Yes you are correct on the CIH+IMAX presentation method.

A lot of this will end up being personal preference for you. In today’s world I’m confronted with so many types of media and different aspect ratios. Of course we have movies that fall into scope 2.35, 2.39, 2.40 and flat 1.85 then there is the academy AR 1.375. then modern TV 16:9 and old TV 4:3 add in these new prestige TV shows on Netflix and Amazon that many are 2.0 and a few other in there. Then there is real IMAX that is hard to find on media but there is IMAX 1.89 some call LieMAX in the theaters is now about to start coming out on BD and UHD BD. Not to mention the Nolan movie and other directors that are changing AR between scope and IMAX1,89 or even movies like The Grand Budapest Hotel that changes between 3 ARs. Some movies like Life of Pi have frame breaking where things like fish jump out of the frame and into the black area of the 16:9 frame. TV shows like Game of Thrones is widely thought of as something that presents very well as IMAXed. In fact when it was shown to sellout crowds for theater showings the directors selected IMAX venues. IMAX Enhanced is the program that’s getting a lot of press this year.

4way masking that is automatic is out there and is very expensive. Many members have done DIY masking and it is not expensive but can get old adjusting it. Blanking helps a lot I’m told my projector does not have that feature. A lot of commercial theaters no longer set masking and I’m not saying it is right or wrong but the majority of people don’t notice. I did 4way masking for a number of years and noticed when I played a movie like Dunkirk none of my guests even noticed it was changing let alone when it went to scope there were gray/black bars. People are so used to them on TV I think they don’t see them any longer. Except on TV they feel they are getting ripped off as that method is CIW. Knowing the scope image on a IMAX screen is as large as you want no one feels under-whelmed and IMAX is just that much more amazing with the total immersion.

As to heads you will have to make a layout or run a string line in your room with mocked up seating to figure that out. You can also use your vertical offset to relocate the image as there is nothing saying all ARs have to be lined up central on a jumbo screen.

My screen is a DIY stealth painted wall so floor to ceiling and wall to wall is what I have to play with. It works for me with no masking YMMV.

Bud
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post #5 of 21 Old 05-27-2019, 08:37 AM - Thread Starter
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A lot of commercial theaters no longer set masking and I’m not saying it is right or wrong but the majority of people don’t notice. I did 4way masking for a number of years and noticed when I played a movie like Dunkirk none of my guests even noticed it was changing let alone when it went to scope there were gray/black bars.
You're totally on point here - I forget that my wife will just shrug when I'm totally blown away by something new... I can already see this happening. I'm sure it will be the same with my friends or anyone who comes over to see something. I need to just do what is best for me.

So hard to have a personal preference when I haven't had any of this of my own! Can't wait to figure out just what my preference is though.

Thanks for the thoughts and comments, very helpful!
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post #6 of 21 Old 05-27-2019, 08:38 PM
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You're totally on point here - I forget that my wife will just shrug when I'm totally blown away by something new... I can already see this happening. I'm sure it will be the same with my friends or anyone who comes over to see something. I need to just do what is best for me.

So hard to have a personal preference when I haven't had any of this of my own! Can't wait to figure out just what my preference is though.

Thanks for the thoughts and comments, very helpful!
Your welcome. I wish more people could learn HT the way myself and others did many years ago. For me it was 15 years ago and on a whim I bought an XGA projector at Sam’s Club for 800 bucks. Took it home hooked a DVD player to it and an old stereo amp and two speakers and used a white bed sheet as a screen in the basement. It was a home theater, not much of one by today’s standards but enough to wow everyone that saw it. It was a work in progress and in many ways still is. The way to learn is by doing IMO.

Today I see most people planning from start to finish and doing things as one big project. They also have many ideas about using projector in poor rooms for a projector and expecting the screen and projector technology to correct for the poor room.

Just playing around with a projector on a stand and a large wall painted flat white or a flat neutral gray will teach you so much so fast. It all comes together when you see the results with your own eyes.
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post #7 of 21 Old 06-05-2019, 11:22 AM
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You should reach out to the local AVS'ers in Kansas City, as they are a bunch of passionate and networked guys, and there's lots to see and experience.
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post #8 of 21 Old 06-05-2019, 03:06 PM - Thread Starter
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You should reach out to the local AVS'ers in Kansas City, as they are a bunch of passionate and networked guys, and there's lots to see and experience.


No kidding? Shoot I'll look around and see. Thankya


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post #9 of 21 Old 06-06-2019, 03:00 AM
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Try the "2017 KC Home Theater Crawl" thread.
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post #10 of 21 Old 06-06-2019, 03:06 AM
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That sump pump closet looks like it could be cut back, and maybe the bedroom closet could shrink a wee bit. And if you can put in a partial wall, then you
would have a better audio layout with the side reflective wall up front, and even be able to employ an acoustically transparent screen. (You'll see lots of those
in use, in KC.) No idea if the new wall flies with the Mrs, but a big screen and hidden speakers, can have a really nice WAF effect.

Even with the sump pump closet cut back, you could simply put the av rack up top.
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post #11 of 21 Old 06-06-2019, 10:20 AM - Thread Starter
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That sump pump closet looks like it could be cut back, and maybe the bedroom closet could shrink a wee bit. And if you can put in a partial wall, then you

would have a better audio layout with the side reflective wall up front, and even be able to employ an acoustically transparent screen. (You'll see lots of those

in use, in KC.) No idea if the new wall flies with the Mrs, but a big screen and hidden speakers, can have a really nice WAF effect.



Even with the sump pump closet cut back, you could simply put the av rack up top.


Shoot that's true on the sump pump closet. Give me a bit more space to work with and it's really just wasted there.

Mrs is on board with AT screen but not so much on the partial wall - even though it'd provide a nice place to hide the support beam. Will take some convincing on this one haha. I'd been planning on in-wall LCR and surrounds but probably should consider the false wall again.

For the AV, I'm thinking I'll have the rack underneath those stairs and a false wall of some sort to access the front. Will be able to access the back through the sump pump closet.

I'm much more leaning towards the largest 16:9 I can fit on that wall... Which means I don't necessarily have to stick with the 5050 for its lens memory.

So many decisions and not much time left - need to get in contact with my family that has the HT business and is helping me out. It's hard to make all these decisions when I'm far from an expert and haven't experienced these myself in person. Thanks!


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post #12 of 21 Old 06-06-2019, 03:10 PM
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+1 for the 16x9 screen. All my sources can tie a video image to the bottom of the screen, which makes for a simple single upper masking project, with the single
row of seating. Now that won't exactly be on the radar of a HT store, but it is something a DIY'er can accomplish.

As for the side wall, I'd want that for the audio benefits. You ideally should want symmetrical walls up front, if you care about audio.
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post #13 of 21 Old 06-13-2019, 05:15 AM
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You could flip the room, end for end, and simply employ do an AT space and acoustically transparent screen. That might mean a smaller bedroom closet.

The support post could also be semi hidden in a bar row which could introduce another row of seats.

The AT space would hide the slope of the stairs. The bedroom door could be rotated around the corner.

And there could be a panel/door to hide the stairs and present a smooth wide front wall.
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post #14 of 21 Old Yesterday, 05:47 AM - Thread Starter
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You could flip the room, end for end, and simply employ do an AT space and acoustically transparent screen..
Now that's a creative floor plan for what I'm working with. I actually had to go down and do some thinking on this... But it did get shot down for WAF. Something about maintaining the "flow of the room". Great idea though!

I decided to open up the projector and forsake my right to 100% refund on return! I set up a precarious stand about 20" from the ceiling and began playing with sizes. I'm really digging the 11' distance with a 16:9 135". This provides me enough space for maybe a 3-stool bar behind the couch to get a few more seats for sports.

The 2.35:1 movies felt appropriately sized, and even Dunkirk felt just about right. If it is too much, I can just use the lens shift to downsize the image when I'm watching the larger cinematic ratios.

The only large decision I need to make before framing is where to put the AV rack. I think underneath the stairs (pink box) is going to be too height-limited - so I'm considering building a closet by the sump pump closet door and stairs (black box) or stealing some space from the office closet (not shown) for the rack.
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Meant to add that I am planning on a AT Dragonfly screen. And (right now at least), a 16:9 135".
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post #16 of 21 Old Yesterday, 05:15 PM
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How much gear do you own, and does all of it need to be accessible? Could you split gear, into two racks? One accessible and exposed and one tucked away,
say one up high, in the closet area?
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post #17 of 21 Old Yesterday, 05:36 PM - Thread Starter
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How much gear do you own, and does all of it need to be accessible? Could you split gear, into two racks? One accessible and exposed and one tucked away,
say one up high, in the closet area?
Don't own much gear yet! Planning on:

Logitech Harmony, Receiver, Apple TV, NVidia Shield, Xbox, Bluray player, network switch, and any power conditioner or amplifier (TBD)

Most of it does not need to be accessible regularly, but I know how fun it is to be crawling in tight spaces running cables with a headlamp. I think a 21U would be fine but know also how future upgrades go.

I'm leaning towards the black line expansion in my last post's picture because that would give me a closer run to the projector and not limit me on height for the rack. It's somewhat null space in that area - not much of a purpose for it. If there was some use for it, then I'd push more for the closet takeover (orange box in attached picture).

Appreciate the sounding board! You definitely think of things that I don't even see.
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post #18 of 21 Old Yesterday, 06:23 PM
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Have you considered a side by side, say dual 14-16U tall bays, in the upper area of that closet? (The lower area could stay closet space.)

You literally could take a used rack, cut it into 2 and flip one end, then frame it in up high. A removable back could give you rack backside,
from the closet. These racks are so flexible, and I have sectioned a few, and shrank my Slim5, with a $10 Harbor Freight 4" angle grinder.


I would recommend you take some av rack growth space, and blank off some bays.
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post #19 of 21 Old Today, 04:37 AM
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At 3' 2" of interior width, you could half a used Telecom rack into 2, and lag them side by side to the joists and side posts.

I see all kinds of used av racks going dirt cheap locally, and if you could find one with shelves, then that could be a simple custom solution, with a can of spray paint and a $10 Harbor Freight 4" angle grinder.

You could simply use some drywall J channel to get nice clean drywall edges, and open up only the space you need.
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post #20 of 21 Old Today, 12:10 PM
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"Conduit - want to run conduit everywhere possible! But what kind? How much is too much?"

I can maybe help with that question. I used what people call "Smurf Tube" in my first build. It's a great flexible conduit and easy to install and work with. Here is a good thread that covers what it is with pictures. I used a ton of it and I wouldn't say you can over kill it. If there is a place that's low voltage you may want to get to that location again after drywall I say run this to it. One tip I can give you is to run your main lines outside the conduit. Those lines can stay as long as you won't ever need or want to get them back out. I then ran a pull string in the conduit to help me pull lines when needed. Take a piece of a plastic grocerie bag and tie it to one end of the pull string. Then take a shop vac to the other end of the chase and suck the bag with the string through. Worked like a charm in my build.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-de...murf-tube.html

Good luck!
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post #21 of 21 Old Today, 12:26 PM
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I made my own in wall rack. Not as sophisticated as you probably can go but I liked it. Just used wood, drilled holes using pegboard to space out pegs for shelves. Here are a couple pics.
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