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post #1 of 21 Old 02-01-2020, 02:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Question about upgrading projector and reciever in basement to 4k

I am ready to to upgrade my projector in my basement to 4K. I currently have the BenQ W1070 with a home theater in the box Onkyo 5.1 DTS surround system with all of the speakers mounted professionally. I set it up with all of this about 6 years ago when we finished our basement.

If I am going to upgrade to a new 4K projector, do I need to upgrade at the very least the reciever as well? I ask this because I currently have the HDMI from my Nvidia Shield and Bluray player going through the Onkyo reciever as pass through video. The problem is I do not believe my Onkyo reciever is compatible with 4K. I believe it to be too old of a model and I thought I read online that if you are using your reciever as a pass thru for 4K video you need to have a reciever that is compatible with 4k? Also, if this is true, would I need to upgrade my speakers too? Aren't the receivers that handle 4k typically ones made for Dolby Atmos? I don't think my standard 5.1 speaker set up is compatible with Atmost? Am I wrong?

Also, is there any way around this so that I only need to get a new projector and that is it? Or if I want to watch 4K on my screen with the full surround experience, do I need to route the 4K video through the reciever?

Any help would be much appreciated.

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post #2 of 21 Old 02-01-2020, 05:49 PM
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Short answer is yes, you should definitely start with a recent 4K and Dolby Atmos capable receiver. I went with the Denon x4400h and have had no issues with it. Speakers don’t necessarily need replacing but if you want atmos, you will need more speakers (the 4 atmos speakers if you go 5.1.4).
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post #3 of 21 Old 02-01-2020, 08:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by m0j0 View Post
Short answer is yes, you should definitely start with a recent 4K and Dolby Atmos capable receiver. I went with the Denon x4400h and have had no issues with it. Speakers don’t necessarily need replacing but if you want atmos, you will need more speakers (the 4 atmos speakers if you go 5.1.4).
Or else I won't be able to watch in 4k, correct?

If I went with the extra speakers, where would I mount them? I currently have a center channel, the 2 front speakers mounted on either side of the screen and the 2 rear speakers mounted high up on the wall behind the seating...

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post #4 of 21 Old 02-02-2020, 06:29 AM
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Does your Nvidia Shield and Blu Ray player already support 4K , otherwise that'll be something else to upgrade. There are several ways to incorporate atmos but typically 2/4 speakers are placed on/in the ceiling slightly forward/behind your listening position. If doing so you'll also want to lower your rear surrounds to be level with your front channels. The upgrade to 4k does not require an upgrade to atmos but most modern receivers will be capable of both.
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post #5 of 21 Old 02-02-2020, 08:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Laughorgy View Post
Does your Nvidia Shield and Blu Ray player already support 4K , otherwise that'll be something else to upgrade. There are several ways to incorporate atmos but typically 2/4 speakers are placed on/in the ceiling slightly forward/behind your listening position. If doing so you'll also want to lower your rear surrounds to be level with your front channels. The upgrade to 4k does not require an upgrade to atmos but most modern receivers will be capable of both.
The bluray player doesn't. But I certainly plan on upgrading that. The Shield does I believe.

EDIT- this is the exact Shield I own:


NVIDIA SHIELD TV Gaming Edition | 4K HDR Streaming Media Player with GeForce NOW https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01N1NT9Y6..._FHUnEbMQQS1HG

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post #6 of 21 Old 02-02-2020, 08:42 AM
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There is nothing saying your video has to go thru your AVR to the projector. You can run the HDMI straight from the BD player to the projector and pick another audio source to feed the AVR and still maintain your 5.1. Or you can buy a HDMI splitter or switching box and do it that way.

I’m cheap and I have 2 HDMI cables running from my equipment rack to my projector one for TV one for BD. I just select input 1 or 2 on the projector.

Sure its nice to have it all packaged together but to save some money you can get started this way.

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post #7 of 21 Old 02-02-2020, 09:05 AM
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Just to clarify, if you want to keep things like you have them passing through the AVR, and you want to take advantage of 4K and atmos, a new AVR would be a good place to start. As mentioned by @bud16415 , you can just run hdmi directly and bypass the AVR or use a switch, but in the end, I think you will save yourself some time and hassle by just getting a decent AVR and let it take care of everything. As for mounting, typically you want a 45 degree angle front and back for a 5.1.4 atmos placement, so measure ears at seated height, then go forward and behind the main listening position that far to get 45 degree angle, and width wise place them in line with your front left and right speakers.
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post #8 of 21 Old 02-02-2020, 11:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Only thing is, we watch by far most of our content via the Shield. I think that only has one output which is the HDMI. I don't think I would be able to run the HDMI from the shield directly to the projector and then another output source from the shield to the AVR for the sound. I could be wrong though?

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post #9 of 21 Old 02-02-2020, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by SteveS78 View Post
Only thing is, we watch by far most of our content via the Shield. I think that only has one output which is the HDMI. I don't think I would be able to run the HDMI from the shield directly to the projector and then another output source from the shield to the AVR for the sound. I could be wrong though?

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Something like this.

https://www.amazon.com/HDMI-Splitter...4-3e7a9c0027d0

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post #10 of 21 Old 02-03-2020, 09:19 AM
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If your goal is to move on to 4K content and you currently have a six year old 5.1 system it just make sense to move on to at least a 4K 5.1.2 system depending on the size of your HT room. This would require a 4K projector, 4K Receiver and at least two ceiling mounted Atmos speakers.

My HT room is 18' (120" screen wall) X 23', my theater seating is 3 wide with soon to be 3-4 seat bar behind seating so I only really needed two 8" Atmos speakers above seating area. I have a 4K 7.2.2 system.

Sony VPL-VW285ES Projector
Denon AVR-X6500H Receiver
Klipsch RF-7 III Fronts X 2
Klipsch RC-64 III Center X1
Klipsch R-112SW Subs X 2
Klipsch CDT-5800-Cii Atmos X 2
Klipsch RP-502S Surround X 2
Klipsch CDT-5800-Cii Rears X 2

Dennis

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post #11 of 21 Old 02-09-2020, 08:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by MrDennis View Post
If your goal is to move on to 4K content and you currently have a six year old 5.1 system it just make sense to move on to at least a 4K 5.1.2 system depending on the size of your HT room. This would require a 4K projector, 4K Receiver and at least two ceiling mounted Atmos speakers.



My HT room is 18' (120" screen wall) X 23', my theater seating is 3 wide with soon to be 3-4 seat bar behind seating so I only really needed two 8" Atmos speakers above seating area. I have a 4K 7.2.2 system.



Sony VPL-VW285ES Projector

Denon AVR-X6500H Receiver

Klipsch RF-7 III Fronts X 2

Klipsch RC-64 III Center X1

Klipsch R-112SW Subs X 2

Klipsch CDT-5800-Cii Atmos X 2

Klipsch RP-502S Surround X 2

Klipsch CDT-5800-Cii Rears X 2



Dennis
How about this Onkyo 5.1.2 Atmos system. Looks like it has the typical 5 speakers (center, 2 front and 2 rear) plus subwoofer. The difference is it appears the two front speakers have additional speakers on the top of the cabinet the fire upwards thus simulating the 5.1.2 effect...

Onkyo HT-S5800 5.1.2-Channel Dolby Atmos Home Theater Package https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00YMN69XS..._eCcqEbW203F65

Does this system seem like it could get the job done as a good Dolby Atmos system?

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post #12 of 21 Old 02-09-2020, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by SteveS78 View Post
How about this Onkyo 5.1.2 Atmos system. Looks like it has the typical 5 speakers (center, 2 front and 2 rear) plus subwoofer. The difference is it appears the two front speakers have additional speakers on the top of the cabinet the fire upwards thus simulating the 5.1.2 effect...

Onkyo HT-S5800 5.1.2-Channel Dolby Atmos Home Theater Package https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00YMN69XS..._eCcqEbW203F65

Does this system seem like it could get the job done as a good Dolby Atmos system?

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What size is your HT room? The Onkyo HT-S5800 5.1.2-Channel Dolby Atmos Home Theater Package seems like it will get the job done but from all the research I did on my system most people with high end systems preferred ceiling mounted Atmos vice upfiring atmos.

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post #13 of 21 Old 02-09-2020, 03:31 PM
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Steve

What speakers do you currently have? Sound like all you really need is to upgrade your AVR and add 2-4 ceiling Atmos speakers and your sound part of this is solved.

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I currently have an Onkyo home theater in a box 5.1 system. It is not high end, but still sounds great. My basement is not large at all.

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Steve, if you're operating in a small space and your current speakers sound good than don't fix what's not broken. Start out with a new AVR and Atmos speakers and go from there.

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post #16 of 21 Old 02-12-2020, 07:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Steve, if you're operating in a small space and your current speakers sound good than don't fix what's not broken. Start out with a new AVR and Atmos speakers and go from there.
Would the atmos speakers with the two front channels having upfiring speakers in the top of the cabinet be sufficient for my set up?

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Would the atmos speakers with the two front channels having upfiring speakers in the top of the cabinet be sufficient for my set up?

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Check out this YouTube vid;


I haven't listened to up firing Atmos so I can't say one way or the other but my in ceiling Atmos do make a difference and I can tell they're up there, I see no reason why the up firing wouldn't produce the same results or people wouldn't be buying them.
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post #18 of 21 Old 02-20-2020, 09:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Check out this YouTube vid;



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqi5dEWp_vs&t=37s



I haven't listened to up firing Atmos so I can't say one way or the other but my in ceiling Atmos do make a difference and I can tell they're up there, I see no reason why the up firing wouldn't produce the same results or people wouldn't be buying them.
I have called several home theater installers for pricing. Two firms that specialize in home theater and also The Geek Squad.

Geek Squad quoted me $100 to install two speakers in the ceiling for the Atmos plus $150 to mount and align the projector with a free in house consultation/survey.

The two specialty companies quoted me WAY higher. One said it would be about $1,000 to $1,500. The other quoted even higher.

For what I want to have done, anything north of $1,000 seems absurd. Frankly, $500 or less would be acceptable, so $250 total through Best Buy sounds too good to be true. They told me that price would include cutting the holes in the ceiling. But I do know that they typically can't get as customized with what they can do as the higher end specialty companies. So I would be a little nervous they would get here and then say they can't pull something off. Not sure what it will take to fish the wiring through the ceiling or make the cutouts for the speakers. I would be nervous about that with them.

Any feedback you or anyone could give me on this?

Also, I have read that I don't need to replace my current HDMI as long as it is high speed for 4K picture or HDR, but BOTH of the specialty places seemed to be pushing the idea on me that I would definitely need to upgrade to the newer higher bandwidth HDMI or else it may not work. One of the guys said it was the HDR specifically that would require the higher bandwidth cable, but then I read an article right after that which stated the exact opposite? This even after I told them that my current HDMI is only like 12 or 15 ft long and isn't over 25 or 30 ft which supposedly COULD be an issue if it was that long. Any comments or feedback on that you could share?

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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveS78 View Post
I have called several home theater installers for pricing. Two firms that specialize in home theater and also The Geek Squad.

Geek Squad quoted me $100 to install two speakers in the ceiling for the Atmos plus $150 to mount and align the projector with a free in house consultation/survey.

The two specialty companies quoted me WAY higher. One said it would be about $1,000 to $1,500. The other quoted even higher.


Also, I have read that I don't need to replace my current HDMI as long as it is high speed for 4K picture or HDR, but BOTH of the specialty places seemed to be pushing the idea on me that I would definitely need to upgrade to the newer higher bandwidth HDMI or else it may not work.
Steve

I had a local AV Installer come out and do the following;

1) Install four (4) 8" ceiling speakers
2) Hang two (2) surround speakers on wall
3) Install AV Rack
4) Install Projector Mount
5) Pull speaker wiring for 7.2.2 system (inside wall) and bring everything out at the Av Rack location.
6) Pull HDMI cable and power from projector mount to AV Rack
7) Install projector screen

Total labor for the above was $1,145 and took two days. Two man crew on day one and single man crew on day two.

If your current HDMI cable is rated for 4K and is long enough to reach from the projector mount to the receiver than I see no reason why you need to buy another HDMI cable.

Sounds like the Geek Squad is the best value but I would ask if the installer is a AV installer or computer tech.

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Originally Posted by MrDennis View Post
Steve



I had a local AV Installer come out and do the following;



1) Install four (4) 8" ceiling speakers

2) Hang two (2) surround speakers on wall

3) Install AV Rack

4) Install Projector Mount

5) Pull speaker wiring for 7.2.2 system (inside wall) and bring everything out at the Av Rack location.

6) Pull HDMI cable and power from projector mount to AV Rack

7) Install projector screen



Total labor for the above was $1,145 and took two days. Two man crew on day one and single man crew on day two.



If your current HDMI cable is rated for 4K and is long enough to reach from the projector mount to the receiver than I see no reason why you need to buy another HDMI cable.



Sounds like the Geek Squad is the best value but I would ask if the installer is a AV installer or computer tech.
Thanks for the info. Sounds like you at least got alot done for a grand. The one guy quoted me like $1,500 to just install two ceiling speakers and mount the new projector and fish wiring. No assembly of a screen is even needed since I already have one and all other speakers are already in place on my walls.

What do you suggest for the projector between the BenQ TK850 and the HT3550? I want to be be able to watch TV and sporting events with the lights on with friends etc (I do have an ambient light rejecting grey screen). But want to have that amazingly accurate picture for movies nights too. I currently have the BenQ W1070 and that one looks fine with the lights on watching TV on my screen...

Also, any good budget in ceiling speakers that would be good? Don't need anything high end or expensive. Would be fine with under $100 if possible...


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Quote:
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Thanks for the info. Sounds like you at least got alot done for a grand. The one guy quoted me like $1,500 to just install two ceiling speakers and mount the new projector and fish wiring. No assembly of a screen is even needed since I already have one and all other speakers are already in place on my walls.

What do you suggest for the projector between the BenQ TK850 and the HT3550? I want to be be able to watch TV and sporting events with the lights on with friends etc (I do have an ambient light rejecting grey screen). But want to have that amazingly accurate picture for movies nights too. I currently have the BenQ W1070 and that one looks fine with the lights on watching TV on my screen...

Also, any good budget in ceiling speakers that would be good? Don't need anything high end or expensive. Would be fine with under $100 if possible...


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Steve can't speak to the BenQ TK850 and the HT3550 but I have a Sony VPL-VW285ES with 1,500 lumens / 4K Native 4096 X 2160 and have no problem watching it with my ceiling LED lights dim to low.

For ceiling speakers look at the Polk Audio V60 I have heard good things about those.

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