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post #61 of 1618 Old 02-23-2008, 09:09 PM
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Originally Posted by queendvd2 View Post

Has anyone else put their theater near their burner/heater and had a sound issue from being closeby?

Yes, my oil furnace and forced air equipment shares a wall with the home theater and you can certainly hear it all running. The furnace was replaced about 2 years ago and the new high-efficiency one is perhaps even noisier than the original. Note that I used existing rooms/walls and have no soundproofing measures between the rooms yet.

As loud as the oil burner is, it pales in comparison to the whooshing air noise from the main return duct, which is in the same space as the theater and probably only 3-5 feet from the blower fan. That thing is loud. Hopefully a baffle arrangment will be able to get it under control.
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post #62 of 1618 Old 02-24-2008, 06:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post


You are going with some pricey in-walls rather than the B&W surround speakers, The later would create more of a surround sound field. Any reason? The surrounds are actually cheaper.

I'm curious what others have used for their 5.1 or 7.1 set-up. Did you guys mostly use surrounds for the sides? Some say 7.1 is overdoing it especially since most material is only 5.1 anyway. But I do want to build for future innovations. More specifically, if you did go 7.1, in addition to the sides, did you use mono or dipoles for the rears? Thanks.
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post #63 of 1618 Old 02-24-2008, 11:24 AM
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I have 7.1. When the DVD fires up My receiver switches to the native sound format which is usually 5.1. I push a button on my remote and it creates a 7.1 sound field. I can tell you that when it switches over I notice a distinct improvement in the sound field. Since you are just getting started. I would plan for the future when there will be more material with 7.1 sound content.


As for mono/dipole that is on the list of mistakes I feel I made in my design. I made my own speakers and they are monopole. I can clearly identify the location of the side speakers and the fact that I have two rows of seating makes is a little too pronounced for the back row. I plan to change out at some point in the future.
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post #64 of 1618 Old 02-25-2008, 07:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post


As for mono/dipole that is on the list of mistakes I feel I made in my design. I made my own speakers and they are monopole. I can clearly identify the location of the side speakers and the fact that I have two rows of seating makes is a little too pronounced for the back row. I plan to change out at some point in the future.

So with the dipoles do you think it creates more of a feeling of being in the middle of the action, instead of the action directed at you? Is the ideal placement for the sides at the front row or second row? It seems like the sides should definitely be dipoles but I am unsure of whether the rears should be mono/dipole/bipole.
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post #65 of 1618 Old 02-26-2008, 01:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post


Yes, I covered a good portion of my walls with 1 inch linacoustic and then GOM fabric. Behind my screen wall the front wall is 100% treated with Linacoustic.

Ok, after quite a bit of reading I'm convinced that I need to do some kind of acoustical treatments. The front wall seems simple enought-just treat the entire wall with 1" Insul-Shield of Linacoustic. This has surely been covered before but I don't seem to recall the specifics. Do you just put the linacoustic directly on the drywall/sheetrock or does it go behind it and then you can paint.

But what about the sides-did you just treat at reflection points or did you do the whole side from below ear level? Also, what about the back wall? I read some do below ear level there too if close to the back but others who have bigger rooms (like you) do not treat at all.

Obviously with GOM fabric, painting is not an option then?
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post #66 of 1618 Old 02-26-2008, 02:06 PM
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You need to read the ChinaDog build thread and visit his picture album and wade through his thousand pictures paying close attention to the 200 showing putting up the Linacoustic and covering with fabric.

https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=549924
http://public.fotki.com/bketterl/ear...idge_cinema-1/



To answer your question you build a drywall room then mount acoustical treatments on the surface of the drywall. Then since that is not a finished surface you cover it with fabric mounted to furring strips on the walls.

Deciding which locations to do is a science. The one size fits all solution discussed most often is linacoustic on the entire front wall, the first reflection points on the side walls and the rest of the walls below ear level. Then because you end up with some undone areas you put 1 inch of Dacron polyfill in those areas then cover ALL the walls with fabric.

In addition based on room size some builders beef up the insulation on the two front corners creating bass traps to even out the rooms bass response. You can hire a designer to model your room and provide advice of how much and what materials to put where. Bpape is one such resource, He hangs out here and sells various acoustical materials on his web site. Sensiblesoundsolutions.com

bet you are sorry you asked?
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post #67 of 1618 Old 02-26-2008, 04:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post


In addition based on room size some builders beef up the insulation on the two front corners creating bass traps to even out the rooms bass response. You can hire a designer to model your room and provide advice of how much and what materials to put where. Bpape is one such resource, He hangs out here and sells various acoustical materials on his web site. Sensiblesoundsolutions.com

bet you are sorry you asked?

Oh, now I get the bass traps. I didn't quite understand them reading about them before in other threads. Thanks for the links. Will do my homework assignment!

By the way, had another GC come today. Even though I did not like him, while I was down there I was studying that area to the left of the oil tank. I think it just might work-the equipment rack. In fact, I'm convinced! Great suggestion BIG.
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post #68 of 1618 Old 02-28-2008, 06:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post


Deciding which locations to do is a science. The one size fits all solution discussed most often is linacoustic on the entire front wall, the first reflection points on the side walls and the rest of the walls below ear level. Then because you end up with some undone areas you put 1 inch of Dacron polyfill in those areas then cover ALL the walls with fabric.

Aside from the first reflection point, could you potentially treat the rest of the walls below ear level and then just throw up a chair rail and have the portion above the chair rail painted instead? Also, just to confirm, the back wall gets treated as well with below ear level?

I read in another thread that you need to fill the stage with sand or something if you plan to put your sub on it (which I do). Did you fill your stage with anything?

By the way, still reading through Chinadog's thread-very informative!
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post #69 of 1618 Old 03-01-2008, 07:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post



You can hire a designer to model your room and provide advice of how much and what materials to put where. Bpape is one such resource, He hangs out here and sells various acoustical materials on his web site. Sensiblesoundsolutions.com

Gave him a call. He was very helpful. It's a tough bill to swallow (especially since I would choose all the pre-made panels) so I am still trying to convince myself. Since he is a sound expert I asked him what his thoughts were on the surrounds (whether to go direct or dipole). He said definitely directs for the rears and dipole for the sides. I also spoke with my potential dealer and asked him why he suggested all directs for the sides/rears as opposed to dipoles. He said that it's a much cleaner sound with that set-up. So it seems, everyone feels quite strongly, one way or the other. I know everyone will say it's personal preference but it's tough to be able to actually 'test' the different combinations. Will have to check out some more dealers...
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post #70 of 1618 Old 03-19-2008, 06:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post


Just one last thought. With the space you have you might have been able to use that bump out in foundation wall behind the screen wall to house behind the screen speakers. Like the Klisph THX ultras and go with an Acoustically transparent screen from SMX. It's a cleaner look and for movie watching having the sound come directly from the action is a real plus.


Big, I've been doing a lot of research (hence, the lack of posting in this thread) and am now seriously considering this idea that you tossed out early on. I'm on the fence with the original set-up (the 804S mains, center and sub all out in the open and 4 in-walls for sides/rears) and an alternative set-up with a new product B&W has out (CT7s) that employs a lot of their technology but without the fancy cabinetry since they are made for behind the screen.

Here's where it gets muddy. I've got two very reputable dealers. One pushing the original set-up who is adamantly opposed to microperf screens (and says I should RUN from a dealer who tries to sell them) and another shop (VERY highly rated by CEPro) who wants to do my HT with the CT7s and the microperf screen (Stewart FH 110"). It seems like most members of AVS go the perf screen route so please share your thoughts about how your viewing and listening experience has been with the perf screen. I've already posted this topic in the screens thread but traffic and comments in this space seem to be higher. Thanks!
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post #71 of 1618 Old 03-19-2008, 05:48 PM
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I'm not certain of your fondness for B&W. for that kind of money you may want to look at alternatives. I think I might try out the Klipsh THX ultras. It seems to be a frequent pick for behind screen applications.

As for AT screens, not all AT materials are created equal in audio and video quality. You might want to read the test data on the SMX material/screens. And read some of the threads over on the screens forum. I have a roll of SMX on hand for my next rebuild and I'm blindly stumbling in that direction. Also micro perf is different than a weave. Something to think about. An SMX screen is a value compared to Stewart Micro Perf.

http://www.smxscreen.com/

You need to think about the fact that most Commercial Theaters are AT. So have you ever thought the sound was lacking in a well set up theater?
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post #72 of 1618 Old 03-30-2008, 04:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post

I'm not certain of your fondness for B&W. for that kind of money you may want to look at alternatives.

You need to think about the fact that most Commercial Theaters are AT. So have you ever thought the sound was lacking in a well set up theater?

Believe it or not, the new B&W CT7.3s are actually pretty reasonably priced compared with the 804S I was originally looking it. They're supposed to have a lot of the same technology but without the fancy cabinetry (which obviously would not matter since they'd be behind the screen). What can I say, I'm a big B&W fan.

Good point about the commercial theaters.

I should be getting a proposal from dealer #2 tomorrow with various options (i.e. microperf or regular). I still need to follow up with them about the Stewart FH choice though. Based on my proposed room and viewing choices, it seems like ST might be the better route.

Also took your advice and created a photobucket account. This is a test to see if I can post it correctly-a pic of the front screen view...

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post #73 of 1618 Old 06-30-2008, 07:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok, awakened from hibernation. Got caught up with work, rounds of layoffs and just researching all the different equipment. Still have not yet chosen the GC or dealer yet but I'm hopeful we'll have both of those nailed down soon. Pretty sad that even if I were Loganed, this non-DIY HT would still be trailing miserably. But enough of that, here are the updates:

1) Screen size upped to a Stewart 110" FH G3
2) Speaker selection changed to Triads

My question for everyone out there is would it be better to do a false-wall and use in-room Triads or just have a regular wall and use in-walls. The picture above shows the bump-out (115"x84"x24" deep) where my screen (with frame measuring about 104"x61") is intended to be. Decided against AT screen due to cost and not getting enough distance between L and R speakers. That leaves me with only about 26" on each side of the screen or about 30" if I include the leftover bump out.

Any suggestions greatly appreciated.
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post #74 of 1618 Old 06-30-2008, 07:12 PM - Thread Starter
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I know everyone likes to see the pictures so even though this is not new, here are my chairs waiting patiently for their new home.

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post #75 of 1618 Old 07-01-2008, 06:39 AM
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LOL, some people buy a projector and decide to build a room around it. You buy some chairs.

Welcome back. I think I vote for the false wall design. Gives more flex on speaker location (at least as I understand your plans) and future upgrades (or moving to another house). I would build the bump out and give yourself a lot of room for a sub. With the false wall you can move the sub(s) across the front of the room until you find the best spot
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post #76 of 1618 Old 07-01-2008, 05:46 PM - Thread Starter
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I think I vote for the false wall design.


Thanks Big. I've been checking out the screen wall shots and found one by BritinVA that looks very similar to my set-up.





Any other opinions out there - whether to go in-rooms with false wall or in-wall with regular wall??
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post #77 of 1618 Old 07-01-2008, 08:32 PM
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I think your room is a bit wider than Brit's and you have the opportunity to use that bump out to hide the SUB. Another good example to check out is ChinaDog's Blazing Ridge.

Of course I kind of like mine: https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=837848
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post #78 of 1618 Old 07-01-2008, 09:00 PM
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Here is a link to a Triad based professionally designed theater. Curtis did all the work himself. I've heard the theater a couple of times and it is great.

https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=767522

You might PM CurtisG and ask for his opinion.
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post #79 of 1618 Old 07-02-2008, 06:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post

I think your room is a bit wider than Brit's and you have the opportunity to use that bump out to hide the SUB. Another good example to check out is ChinaDog's Blazing Ridge.

Of course I kind of like mine: https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=837848


BIG! I never realized that you had a false wall. I knew the columns opened up but for some reason I thought you had an AT screen. I think that's on your upgrade list, along with the cinewide. I love the shot of what's behind...



I studied your layout my whole train ride home. I think I just might be able to 'borrow' this design What are the exact dimensions of your theater (if you do not include where the bar starts)?

One problem I may have though is when I measured everything I included the bump out so if I put the false wall flush I end up losing two feet. My first row would end up being at 10' instead of 12', making it necessary for me to scale back down to a 100" screen.

Any thoughts on the HSU VTF3-MK3 Sub? I just might have to go that route if the Triads run too $$. Would one be sufficient with the Turbo (says it equal to two with Turbo) or would you recommend two in the front?
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post #80 of 1618 Old 07-03-2008, 06:06 AM
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Dimensions:

The false wall between side columns is 12 1/2 ft wide. The columns are 2 1/2 each so the entire wall is 17 1/2 wide. I went with that design because of the wide wall and the need to break it up.

From the screen to the front of my riser is 12 ft and I have a 6 3/4ft deep riser. The bar top and seating takes another 5 ft min (5 1/2 better).

I think I have about 30 inches behind my screen, not that I needed it.

In your case you need to think about having the sides of the false wall sitting a bit forward and the screen sitting back a bit with enough room for the sub in the bump-back. Like Brits design and others floating around here. I'll see if I can find a good example.

That way I'm not certain you have to lose 2 ft for the screen distance maybe just 1 max.

If you would post an exact measured sketch of the front end maybe we could do a napkin sketch for you.

On the SUB I'm not expert in that area but for what it is worth that HSU sub seems to be rated as one of the best bang for buck subs and it has been on my Christmas toy list for some time. If you hang around here long enough you'll start to realize that one can never have too many Subs.
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post #81 of 1618 Old 07-03-2008, 06:23 AM
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Found what I was looking for. This theater launched my build when I showed the pics to my wife. It was designed my the same guy DE that did CurtisG's .

Notice how the false wall on the sides sits forward. This is a 12 x 20 ft room.



finished view:



You would benefit from reviewing all the pics in sequence here:

http://home.comcast.net/~kirkk/uptownparadiso.html

here is his Q&A thread from the Achieves.

http://archive.avsforum.com/avs-vb/s...highlight=kirk
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post #82 of 1618 Old 07-03-2008, 05:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Big, thanks SO much for finding those threads. I've scanned through both threads (will need to read in more detail later) and really like both. Uptown's is particularly interesting since the dimensions are nearly identical to mine, with my room being just a tad wider. I am well aware of the legend known as DE and in fact got some quotes from him. Unfortunately, I just don't think it's in the budget so I will have to 'borrow' ideas from all the best theaters on AVS.

Ok, I went downstairs and had my dad help me will all the measurements. Room ended up being a little longer (22') than I had originally measured. Please excuse my crude mark-ups as I'm not too familiar with photobucket yet but hopefully the diagrams will provide you with all the information you need. If not, just let me know. Thanks again for all your help! Greatly appreciated.



Screen size, including the frame will measure 103.625" x 60.625".



Not sure how to handle the 1' steel beam - perhaps build a soffit? I definitely do not want to drop my entire ceiling down to only 7', but am unsure how the beam will work with the riser.



Two steel poles to the left of theater entrance door is where the equipment rack is planned. I would love to be able to move to the side where the oil tank is but am unsure of clearance issues. Will consult with GC once we sign one. Two wood columns will be hidden in the rear wall.
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post #83 of 1618 Old 07-03-2008, 05:26 PM
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I think that is sufficient detail except HOW CLOSE TO THE OIL TANK WALL can the left wall be? Of that 64 inch wall left of the bump out how much will be left? Can't really tell from the pictures. From my quick calculations you can have a 15 1/2 ft wide room not just 14.

Gotta work on something else tonight and leaving for a little beach time in the AM but I will do something if you can wait a week.

In the meantime maybe someone else can get their napkins out.
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post #84 of 1618 Old 07-03-2008, 06:26 PM - Thread Starter
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I think that is sufficient detail except HOW CLOSE TO THE OIL TANK WALL can the left wall be? Of that 64 inch wall left of the bump out how much will be left? Can't really tell from the pictures. From my quick calculations you can have a 15 1/2 ft wide room not just 14.

I wasn't sure if there was some town code about that. I was thinking along the lines of 6-12" (which in total would take away 34"-40" from the left wall) in order to have access but was going to do whatever the GC recommended. I'm more concerned about the room not being symmetrical with the center of the screen since the oil tank (28" depth) seriously eats into that 64" left wall. No hurry on the napkin. As I mentioned previously, we have not yet committed to a GC or AV dealer yet, but I'm hopeful that will change in the next few weeks. Again, I really appreciate your time Big. Happy 4th to you and your family!

Would certainly welcome any other napkins out there too...
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post #85 of 1618 Old 07-09-2008, 04:48 PM - Thread Starter
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All napkins please stand by. It turns out that we'll have to move the HT to another part of the basement. Had another GC in and took specific measurements. My deficient measuring skills (I know, I'm an idiot) had the left theater wall nearly right up against the oil tank. Interestingly enough, the new area is the precise location BIG had recommended from the get-go. The space will still be the same size 14x20 (possibly 22). The bump out on the right side will be the perfect location for the equipment rack. The three wood columns will be removed but we may possibly have to still add a steel column for support. This is what the new location looks like...



Screen wall would be where you see the white pipes on the concrete wall.
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post #86 of 1618 Old 07-09-2008, 05:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Just snapped a few more. Great thing is I can still utilize BIG's original napkin since my room dimensions are basically identical. Plus, the extremely roomy bump out on the right side can be used to house the equipment rack. The 14' width does NOT include that bump out (had potential GC measure the space).


Here's the side view and the bump out where the rack will go.


Another shot of the front wall.


The side view of the rear-just to the right of the rope switch and exactly where the insulation is falling down (by the seam) is where the back wall will go. Debating whether to put the door in the rear or by the front left (leaning toward the front left).

The entire space measures 14x24x8 but the HT will be 14x22x8. The front wall will be built two feet out from the concrete in order to provide access to pipes.

Any feedback appreciated. Thanks!
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post #87 of 1618 Old 07-12-2008, 10:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Finally got a chance to demo the Triads in person. Definitely a go on those, even though I am still undecided on the rear speaker issue (mono vs dipole). At the HT shop where we demo'd they had the dipoles in the rear. I can't say that I was a great fan of those in the rear but it would have been helpful if I could have heard the monos too in order to make a true comparison.

For the screen, leaning toward switching back to ST instead of FH since we don't have any ambient light issues and the SIM2 D80E produces pretty good black levels already. Have pretty much nailed down which HT shop we will go with. It's been a VERY long journey, but it's a relief to have finally found the right fit. Fairly close on the GC issue.

As far as the new space, it actually affords a lot more flexibility now. I plan on borrowing Uptown's false wall/staging design (the one BIG referenced a few posts up). I really love the angles and moldings. Will also be doing the fabric walls (burgundy and ?) with a chair rail. Oh, and most likely the Leonardo sconces. Gee...this is beginning to sound a lot like a BIG rip-off. What can I say, I absolutely love his and Uptown's theater, both of which share many of the same design elements.

Not sure of whether it's a good idea to put the egress window in the 4' deep cavity that will also be housing my equipment rack. I like the idea because then it's hidden and it's toward the back of the house instead of on the side where it could be seen from the street. Are there any disadvantages to putting the egress window in the same spot that I put my rack, which will be accessible via an access door?
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post #88 of 1618 Old 07-12-2008, 11:20 AM
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Ask Don Kellogg in the Purple palace build about using the egress window in the same space as the equipment rack. He just recently had a major disaster involving the egress window. Bottom line is you need to plan for the 1000 year rain storm and making sure that window well never takes on water.

You might ask him to PM you the pic he took. It is priceless.

https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...=757237&page=8
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post #89 of 1618 Old 07-30-2008, 08:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the suggestion. Picked up some advice from Don. It looks like, however, I'll still have to go with the egress window in the same spot as the equipment rack. I'm not terribly worried though since the GC will be putting up a cover on top of it and then I'll have some tarp and mulch directly over it. Speaking of which, had the GC (the likely choice) over today and spent a few hours talking and walking around the basement. I'm very happy with the new spot for the HT, especially since I won't have the column in the middle of the back row anymore. Plus, the new spot really opens up the playroom area.

One thing remains potentially troublesome though. All of our a/c equipment/ducts are in the attic and drop down through to the first and second floors, making it impossible to just drop a line through the existing zone to feed into the basement (though I'm not sure that would be a good idea since it would drastically take away from the main floor a/c) or cost prohibitive to add another zone. I'm thinking of possibly just doing a simple window a/c unit for the big playroom area but am unsure of what to do for the HT room. Can't do a simple window unit for the HT room since the egress window will be hidden away in 4' cavity with my equipment rack. GC suggested a Sanyo stand-alone unit but the way he described it (grille measuring 1'x6') makes it difficult to place in the HT. After getting the HT built the last thing I want to do is muck it up with some ugly and perhaps non-acoustically friendly grille. What have others out there done for a/c in the HT room? I'd really appreciate any suggestions. Thanks.
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post #90 of 1618 Old 07-31-2008, 07:21 AM
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Do a search on Mini-Split air conditioners. The Mitsubishi MR Slim line are pretty quiet.


Pretty cool looking ones:
http://www.acdirect.com/xcart/produc...productid=1905

More choices:
http://www.mrslim.com/Products/Categ...tCategoryID=24

recent thread on this topic:
https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1053329
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