"Dark City"-The Directors Cut & Review Thread - Page 13 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #361 of 919 Old 07-20-2008, 01:04 AM
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I am SO glad this disc was region locked.

The ones responsible for the DNR must DIE!!!!!!!!!!!

**** I´m getting tired of this ****!!

If DNR is becoming a norm I might aswell go back to DVD since we don´t get any fine details anyway.
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post #362 of 919 Old 07-20-2008, 05:10 AM
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What is this about other regions? Other region releases may have better PQ? Should I wait? I'll only have a PS3 to play this movie on will it play on it?
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post #363 of 919 Old 07-20-2008, 05:48 AM
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Do I hate it? Sure. Am I still going to buy it? Yep.
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post #364 of 919 Old 07-20-2008, 07:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xylon View Post

o.m.g.

*sigh*

and that guy never even mentioned EXCESSIVE DNR at ALL?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

I was so hyped up for this release.

which guy?
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post #365 of 919 Old 07-20-2008, 08:00 AM
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Well, here we go again it seems. I have never seen the movie and Im certainly looking forward to it. From the screenshots, just like Patton, I see what SOME of the fuss is about.... but overall, the Blu-ray looks quite a bit better than the DVD version shots.

Thsi DNR thing is obviously a much bigger issue for the monster screen sizes. For those of us that have paltry 60" or less screens, we just arent as bothered by this stuff.

Now, excuse me while I dress in full body armor for the attacks soon to come from the DNR-Posse!

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post #366 of 919 Old 07-20-2008, 08:35 AM
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As evidenced by the comparison with the 1080i broadcast version, this is simply from an older master. I don't know how old but I think it's likely it was done when no one really cared all that much.

Thus the real issue here is not that they at some point used DNR when creating the master (because we know many older transfers are often crappy in more ways than this) but that they didn't do a new transfer when they knew, or at least should have known, that the master they had wasn't up to snuff.

Probability of the EiV release being better: I would say somewhere around 0%.
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post #367 of 919 Old 07-20-2008, 08:38 AM
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Wow, this has a just gorgeous,film-like look.

Art
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post #368 of 919 Old 07-20-2008, 10:02 AM
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This is terrible news for the film that was #1 on my most-wanted list. But I'm going to wait to read the full reviews of this disc before I make my final buying decision.

Of course, I was equally cautious about the early complaints of DNR on the Gangs of New York BD, but unfortunately the final reviews of that disc confirmed the bad DNR that was suggested here on AVS Forum.

The only good news is that the more these studios pile on the DNR, the more money I'm saving.
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post #369 of 919 Old 07-20-2008, 10:08 AM
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You sure this isn't a kinescope picture of Ralph Kramden from the Honeymooners show in the 1950's?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn View Post



Wow, this has a just gorgeous,film-like look.

Art

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post #370 of 919 Old 07-20-2008, 10:32 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paku View Post

As evidenced by the comparison with the 1080i broadcast version, this is simply from an older master. I don't know how old but I think it's likely it was done when no one really cared all that much.

I would have thought they used a new master because it's a directors cut which has never been released before on any home format......Never ever seen this film and it looks like i won't be buying this version even though i had planned to do so.

I suppose it could be an old master though and they just spliced in the new footage ( I know there is a lot more to it so excuse my spliced comment )

Does the new footage look better than the old footage ?
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post #371 of 919 Old 07-20-2008, 10:44 AM
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I too never saw this film and have interest in it - I planned on buying it blindly, but not now. I'll just give it a rental instead.

When will these studio jackasses ever learn?
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post #372 of 919 Old 07-20-2008, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCrackedJack View Post

Shouldn't the real issue be educating people why grain is good?

After all, aren't the studio are just giving the average person what they want? They have absolutely nothing to gain by spending more money and taking extra steps to remove grain, besides pleasing customers and getting more sales.

I don't know what you can really do if you don't get the word out more. You can't expect a company too see 100 people who like the look of DNR and 50 who don't, to take the "high ground" and try and please what the minority likes, instead of the majority.

I bet less grain makes it easier to compress and maybe they don't need to spend as much care doing custom compression work etc.?

I still fail to see why general public would like DNR, at lest more than a very little, sine it makes stuff so waxy, blurry and DVD-like? Don't they want sharp and biting picture?
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post #373 of 919 Old 07-20-2008, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertR View Post

But do we know for certain that's why they're doing this? Could it be that the DNR/EE nonsense has to do with the attitudes toward film of the people in the mastering houses? There were some posts that indicated that.

plus they aren't even using modern sharpening techniques! If they really knew what they were doing or had some decent aesthitic sense at the mastering houses:
1. wouldn't they do nothing to the masters (as different amounts of DNR/EE would be needed for different formats even if you do want to this stuff and the algorithms are constantly evolving and improving so why lock you master into some nasty old technique and that technique applied to degress that won't and can't make sense for all desitination formats)
2. realize that they are using 10 year old EE algorithms that totally stink?
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post #374 of 919 Old 07-20-2008, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kram Sacul View Post

I bet they will all use the same master as the US release since that is the approved one. Since it appears to be derived from the same transfer as the broadcast version that was done years ago the DNR/EE is also baked in so there's no hope of a clean version. We are screwed.

why in the world would the studios ever, ever have thought that baking in DNR/EE to a mster is good?!

every still photographer knows to never do that.

every still photographer knows that you need to sharpen differently for each final output size (in this case DVD, blu-ray, PSP, 720p, 4K in the future, etc.).

every still photographer knows that both their personal PP skills and in-built routine get better over the years and feelings about DNR/EE change and that if you lock yourself in you will regret down the line.

so the heck can people working at billion dollar studios not know this??
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post #375 of 919 Old 07-20-2008, 01:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FoxyMulder View Post

I would have thought they used a new master because it's a directors cut which has never been released before on any home format......Never ever seen this film and it looks like i won't be buying this version even though i had planned to do so.

I suppose it could be an old master though and they just spliced in the new footage ( I know there is a lot more to it so excuse my spliced comment )

Does the new footage look better than the old footage ?

You know, that could bring up a point. Maybe those screens are from the original theatrical release, which is from the old master, and the Director's Cut is from a new master? Again, could be wishful thinking.
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post #376 of 919 Old 07-20-2008, 02:11 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBowermaster View Post

You know, that could bring up a point. Maybe those screens are from the original theatrical release, which is from the old master, and the Director's Cut is from a new master? Again, could be wishful thinking.

I doubt there is two versions on the same disc....Probably uses seamless branching to achieve both cuts of the movie.
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post #377 of 919 Old 07-20-2008, 08:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FoxyMulder View Post

I doubt there is two versions on the same disc....Probably uses seamless branching to achieve both cuts of the movie.

From the sounds of it, the movie's entire editing structure has been altered to tone down the rapid-fire rhythm. I doubt seamless branching was used, or they'd need to branch at every extended shot. More likely, there are separate encodes of the movie on each BD layer. New Line did that for The Golden Compass to accomodate the PiP commentary track without using Profile 1.1.

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post #378 of 919 Old 07-20-2008, 08:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBowermaster View Post

You know, that could bring up a point. Maybe those screens are from the original theatrical release, which is from the old master, and the Director's Cut is from a new master? Again, could be wishful thinking.

fingers crossed.
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post #379 of 919 Old 07-20-2008, 08:44 PM
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I think it is indeed two encodes on the same disc ala I Am Legend. Whether or not a new transfer is on there has yet to be seen. I doubt it though since some of the most horrible captures came from DVDBeaver.com and they have two new shots mixed in there.

The only reason to get this disc is to check out the extras, the new cut (dying to know what was screwed with), and the 7.1 soundtrack. The picture is FUBAR.
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post #380 of 919 Old 07-20-2008, 09:10 PM
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Courtesy: House

Two separate encodes like IAL.

Code:
                                                                                                                Total   Video                                             
Title                                                           Codec   Length  Movie Size      Disc Size       Bitrate Bitrate Main Audio Track                          Secondary Audio Track
-----                                                           ------  ------- --------------  --------------  ------- ------- ------------------                        ---------------------
Dark City: Director's Cut                                       VC-1    1:51:43 21,823,856,640  45,517,950,048  26.04   17.83   DTS-HD Master 5.1 5913Kbps (48kHz/24-bit) DTS 2.0 256Kbps (48kHz/24-bit)
Code:
PLAYLIST REPORT:

Name:           00019.mpls
Size:           21,823,856,640 bytes
Length:         1:51:43 (h:m:s)
Total Bitrate:  26.04 Mbps
Description:    

FILES:

Name            Size            Length          Time In         Time Out        
----            ----            ------          -------         --------        
00043.M2TS      21,823,856,640  1:51:43.738     0:00:00.000     1:51:43.738     

VIDEO:

Codec               Bitrate         Description     
-----               -------         -----------     
VC-1 Video          17830 kbps      1080p / 23.976fps

AUDIO:

Codec                           Language        Bitrate         Description     
-----                           --------        -------         -----------     
DTS-HD Master Audio             English         5913 kbps       5.1 / 48kHz / 24-bit / 5913kbps (DTS Core: 5.1 / 48kHz / 24-bit / 1536kbps)
DTS Audio                       English         256 kbps        2.0 / 48kHz / 24-bit / 256kbps
DTS Audio                       English         256 kbps        2.0 / 48kHz / 24-bit / 256kbps
DTS Audio                       English         256 kbps        2.0 / 48kHz / 24-bit / 256kbps

SUBTITLES:

Codec                           Language        Bitrate         Description     
-----                           --------        -------         -----------     
Presentation Graphics           English         35 kbps                         
Presentation Graphics           English         16 kbps                         
Presentation Graphics           Spanish         31 kbps                         

CHAPTERS:

Number          Time            Name                            
------          ----            ----                            
1               0:00:00.000     Chapter 1                       
2               0:02:00.078     Chapter 2                       
3               0:07:20.022     Chapter 3                       
4               0:12:09.520     Chapter 4                       
5               0:19:22.286     Chapter 5                       
6               0:23:00.754     Chapter 6                       
7               0:27:40.867     Chapter 7                       
8               0:34:35.448     Chapter 8                       
9               0:48:26.653     Chapter 9                       
10              0:57:14.180     Chapter 10                      
11              1:05:31.677     Chapter 11                      
12              1:11:08.722     Chapter 12                      
13              1:16:27.874     Chapter 13                      
14              1:19:31.266     Chapter 14                      
15              1:29:16.809     Chapter 15                      
16              1:40:04.498     Chapter 16                      
17              1:45:08.302     Chapter 17                      
18              1:51:43.488     Chapter 18
Code:
                                                                                                                Total   Video                                             
Title                                                           Codec   Length  Movie Size      Disc Size       Bitrate Bitrate Main Audio Track                          Secondary Audio Track
-----                                                           ------  ------- --------------  --------------  ------- ------- ------------------                        ---------------------
Dark City: Theatrical                                           VC-1    1:40:29 19,710,339,072  45,517,950,048  26.15   18.09   DTS-HD Master 5.1 6046Kbps (48kHz/24-bit) DTS 2.0 256Kbps (48kHz/24-bit)
Code:
PLAYLIST REPORT:

Name:           00021.mpls
Size:           19,710,339,072 bytes
Length:         1:40:29 (h:m:s)
Total Bitrate:  26.15 Mbps
Description:    

FILES:

Name            Size            Length          Time In         Time Out        
----            ----            ------          -------         --------        
00045.M2TS      19,710,339,072  1:40:29.064     0:00:00.000     1:40:29.064     

VIDEO:

Codec               Bitrate         Description     
-----               -------         -----------     
VC-1 Video          18092 kbps      1080p / 23.976fps

AUDIO:

Codec                           Language        Bitrate         Description     
-----                           --------        -------         -----------     
DTS-HD Master Audio             English         6046 kbps       5.1 / 48kHz / 24-bit / 6046kbps (DTS Core: 5.1 / 48kHz / 24-bit / 1536kbps)
DTS Audio                       English         256 kbps        2.0 / 48kHz / 24-bit / 256kbps
DTS Audio                       English         256 kbps        2.0 / 48kHz / 24-bit / 256kbps

SUBTITLES:

Codec                           Language        Bitrate         Description     
-----                           --------        -------         -----------     
Presentation Graphics           English         37 kbps                         
Presentation Graphics           Spanish         33 kbps                         

CHAPTERS:

Number          Time            Name                            
------          ----            ----                            
1               0:00:00.000     Chapter 1                       
2               0:02:53.882     Chapter 2                       
3               0:07:18.688     Chapter 3                       
4               0:11:32.316     Chapter 4                       
5               0:16:34.660     Chapter 5                       
6               0:19:44.850     Chapter 6                       
7               0:25:00.499     Chapter 7                       
8               0:29:51.080     Chapter 8                       
9               0:41:42.791     Chapter 9                       
10              0:49:34.972     Chapter 10                      
11              0:55:46.384     Chapter 11                      
12              1:01:23.429     Chapter 12                      
13              1:06:22.186     Chapter 13                      
14              1:09:17.778     Chapter 14                      
15              1:18:21.405     Chapter 15                      
16              1:28:56.956     Chapter 16                      
17              1:34:00.051     Chapter 17                      
18              1:40:28.814     Chapter 18

Blu-ray : 340
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post #381 of 919 Old 07-20-2008, 09:18 PM
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Ok, I put the disc in again and watched the scenes captured from DVDBEAVER. Yes, as I mentioned before, there is DNR but it's not crazy and offensive as everyone is making it out to be, IMHO fellas. It's quite impressive in many, many scenes. I am only watching on a 50" plasma and not a 3chip DLP w/ a 120" firehawk mind you. I have seen EVERY film that people have been complaining about and agree with the consensus of DNR overkill on those titles, PATTON especially.

Now, I know these photos SUCK, but this 1st shot has some impressive detail in his coat but yes, he's a little waxy. Patton waxy? I don't believe so.

Taken with a digital SLR.








I would love to hear what people think when everyone actually gets the disc.
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post #382 of 919 Old 07-20-2008, 09:21 PM
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I hear ya Paul. I don't think people here are saying it's as bad as the other recent examples but it's just a shame that the DNR/EE trend continues.
Some people actually barely notice EE. To me, it looks like forcefields around things and is very distracting is all.

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post #383 of 919 Old 07-20-2008, 09:30 PM
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Even if the DNR on Dark City was on the levels of Pan's Labyrinth it's still unacceptable.

Blu-ray : 340
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post #384 of 919 Old 07-20-2008, 09:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lgans316 View Post

Even if the DNR on Dark City was on the levels of Pan's Labyrinth it's still unacceptable.

Yes, you have a point.
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post #385 of 919 Old 07-20-2008, 09:56 PM
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The transfer just doesn't stand up today. Maybe it was great for the days of laserdisc, dvd, and broadcast HD lite but not in 2008 on HDM where every flaw is crystal clear. And especially not after Patton, The Longest Day, and Gangs. 2008 is becoming the year of DNR.

I still can't get over that a new transfer wasn't done. Total cheapness.
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post #386 of 919 Old 07-20-2008, 10:18 PM
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This DNR stuff is getting out of control, another one of my favorite films ruined. No sale. Dammit.
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post #387 of 919 Old 07-20-2008, 10:23 PM
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Ive never owned a copy of this on any format, so im buying it anyways. It probably wont look too bad on my measly 60" Kuro.

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post #388 of 919 Old 07-20-2008, 10:34 PM
 
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Can we wish upon a star this release won't be FUBAR???

I love this film...one of the finest PURE Sci-Fi films Hollywood has ever done.
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post #389 of 919 Old 07-20-2008, 11:18 PM
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Do the comparison shots between the Bluray and 1080i indicate the 1080i version had the mattes opened up to 16:9? There seems to be more information top and bottom but little change to the sides.

I think I prefer the 1080i for framing based on the limited screenshots I have seen so far.

Come to think of it, I also preferred the "opened" transfer on the Top Gun laserdisc as well, compared to the DVD and Bluray.

Maybe it's time the format became universal and 1) used no filtering on the transfer and 2) where possible maximise the use of the 16:9 frame: leaving the player to filter and crop according to customer preferences (and maybe with optional director preset guidance).
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post #390 of 919 Old 07-20-2008, 11:43 PM
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The 1080i is opened up but all the visual effects shots are cropped to hell.
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