New UK releases - Terminator 2, Total Recall, Stargate, Cliffhanger, Escape from NY - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 147 Old 08-12-2008, 05:29 PM
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Exactly! I just noticed this thread resurrected, and frankly there was a lot of good information from the poster from Germany. Good info that any AVS'r could use to help discern upconversion vs. bad encodes/transfers.

Bummer...big bummer...
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post #62 of 147 Old 08-12-2008, 05:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J Brinkley View Post

What happened to all of the incredibly valuable discussion on the EFNY snafu that was in this thread? While there was personal bickering going on, it appears that the meat of the discussion has been stripped away because of it.

Mods: It's unfortunate that this can't be a place to come to for information any longer. Moderation should not be limited to deleting posts, guys.

There were some great comparisons before.

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post #63 of 147 Old 08-12-2008, 06:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DM2006RI View Post

ESCAPE does not look good but I doubt it's an upconvert...it looks appreciably better than the last MGM SE. Some scenes look HD, others don't. But this notion that it's "480p" is kind of baseless...it's just a bad transfer.

So explain why there's no difference to a 480p downscale even at the letterbox edge, and even the StudioCanal logo at the start was shown to be in far lower res with pushed contrast vs their other releases.

Too bad Torsten Kaiser's great posts are gone now... It's not moderation, the whole forum was rolled back to Aug 2. At least this thread is now unlocked as a result. Perhaps we can be more civil this time.

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post #64 of 147 Old 08-12-2008, 06:39 PM
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So without looking at the file names which is from the HDNet broadcast and which is from the Blu-ray?

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post #65 of 147 Old 08-12-2008, 07:11 PM
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The crappy looking crushed black blurry ee riddled one is the BD.
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post #66 of 147 Old 08-12-2008, 07:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J Brinkley View Post

What happened to all of the incredibly valuable discussion on the EFNY snafu that was in this thread? While there was personal bickering going on, it appears that the meat of the discussion has been stripped away because of it.

Mods: It's unfortunate that this can't be a place to come to for information any longer. Moderation should not be limited to deleting posts, guys.

There was a big server crash yesterday that required backup recovery from August 2. This means the informative posts from Torsten Kaiser are gone because of it.
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post #67 of 147 Old 08-12-2008, 09:37 PM
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Ah, I see. I'm a little trigger happy on the complaining lately it seems. Sorry. It's most unfortunate for the loss of info; his detailed examples and explanations on the EFNY issue were a huge highlight and a great read.

My EFNY copy is going back to Amazon.co.uk. I guess I'll wait it out for the day MGM gets off their duffs and get its out over here.

Now to pull the trigger on the fixed-audio Total Recall or not...
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post #68 of 147 Old 08-13-2008, 05:19 AM
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Can anyone confirm is Stargate (UK) is the same as the US release (MPEG-2) ?

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Originally Posted by msgohan View Post

DNR on First Blood I & II.

I've read reports that the UK blu-rays are the same as the UK HD-DVD masters and thus the PQ is worse (and Rambo III is cut). I'm still not able to decide whether to get the UK boxset or the US one because I can't get a definitive answer it seems on which is better!!
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post #69 of 147 Old 08-13-2008, 05:38 AM
 
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Rambo 3 is cut due to cruelty to a horse...Which i believe is a horse trip and it will always remain cut as we have strict animal cruelty laws in place...It's the reason Conan The Barbarian will also remain cut.

DVD Times have a picture comparison with Total Recall showing the Blu Ray by Lionsgate and the new UK release....It looks more colorful but i'm cautious as i'm asking myself where the grain is in the picture they show and the image seems slightly cropped on the new UK disc in the image they provided as Sharon Stone's hand seems to be slightly gone and the frame seems moved so that we see more on top but less on bottom....No idea why this is but i prefer the framing of the American Lionsgate disc as it seems more natural to me.

Go check it out and read their review and see the picture i am talking about. Personally i'm starting to wonder when studio's are going to hit a home run with their catalogue titles as at the moment it's very hit or miss and i think it's because they are just cleaning up the old catalogue titles with too much DNR and adding a little EE to compensate when they really should be spending money on new prints and creating specific HD masters for Blu Ray.

They also have had a reply from Optimum stating a fully High Definition master was supplied to them for Escape From New York....I think they are just covering their ass because they don't want to recall any Blu Rays but they are adamant it's fully HD.
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post #70 of 147 Old 08-13-2008, 07:23 AM
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If I remember correctly, the Total Recall HD DVD, from which this is ported, was slightly mis-framed. This was visible during the intro credits, they're not perfectly centered, more off to one side.

The other Optimum debacle at the moment,is that the surrounds on Cliffhanger are possibly mixed up on the lossless track.
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post #71 of 147 Old 08-13-2008, 07:25 AM
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It looks like that Terminator 2 is really the only one out of the bunch worth importing, IMO.
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post #72 of 147 Old 08-13-2008, 08:10 AM
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Jeezus...! Before I read your text I thought it was a comparison between the Blu-Ray and the DVD. The Blu-Ray looks totally like a DVD-upconvert. Look at the excessive EE in the window! Just horrible!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kram Sacul View Post

So without looking at the file names which is from the HDNet broadcast and which is from the Blu-ray?


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post #73 of 147 Old 08-13-2008, 10:48 AM
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The BD release screen grabs posted look very much like a Digital Betacam tape (or other unadulterated standard definition source) that has been scaled to 1920x1080 then processed. That would explain the SLIGHT gain in detail on the BD: it's not been low-pass filtered like the DVD will have been prior to compression. Since Optimum have denied that this is the case, we'll just have to say it's a poor HD release.

One thing doesn't change though: the review scores that this has received at some sites are cause for concern.

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post #74 of 147 Old 08-13-2008, 08:41 PM
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One wonders why an upconverted master exists at all. What would it be used for?
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post #75 of 147 Old 08-14-2008, 07:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lyris View Post

The BD release screen grabs posted look very much like a Digital Betacam tape (or other unadulterated standard definition source) that has been scaled to 1920x1080 then processed. That would explain the SLIGHT gain in detail on the BD: it's not been low-pass filtered like the DVD will have been prior to compression.

That makes sense to me. I realize the disc looks bad, my point was that it still looks better than the Region 1 DVD if you do an A/B comparison. There is some level of detail visible on the UK BD that isn't there on the upconverted DVD, more in some shots than others.

Either way it's a poor transfer not worth the trouble to import, regardless of what methods they used.
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post #76 of 147 Old 08-14-2008, 08:23 PM
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Anyone know whats up with all the negative reviews of the UK T2 blu-ray on amazon.co.uk?
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post #77 of 147 Old 08-14-2008, 09:23 PM
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Well they might have used a PAL master (576) and just slowed it down?
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post #78 of 147 Old 08-14-2008, 11:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Mack View Post

Well they might have used a PAL master (576) and just slowed it down?

The amazon reviewers are crazy. Although T2 is from an old master it is HD and looks much better than the DVD. It looks marginally better than the US blu-ray. There arn't any extras stated on the product so I don't know why these people are expecting them.
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post #79 of 147 Old 08-15-2008, 12:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cybersoga View Post

The amazon reviewers are crazy. Although T2 is from an old master it is HD and looks much better than the DVD. It looks marginally better than the US blu-ray. There arn't any extras stated on the product so I don't know why these people are expecting them.

So it's not the same as the studio canal HD DVD? I have that one and its way better then DVD.
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post #80 of 147 Old 08-15-2008, 12:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cocoon View Post

So it's not the same as the studio canal HD DVD? I have that one and its way better then DVD.

It probably is the same as the HD-DVD, which almost the same as the US blu-ray except for VC1 compression instead of MPEG2. Earliest version in HD is on the 2003 T2 Extreme DVD bonus disc when Microsoft were experimenting with putting WMV files on standard DVDs, the version on this latest blu-ray has better bit rate, compression and is full 1080p but I think it's made from the same master.
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post #81 of 147 Old 08-15-2008, 02:35 AM
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The UK BD is EXACTLY the same as the UK HD DVD. The comments on Amazon.co.uk are by liars and idiots. The 'upscale' remarks are laughable.
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post #82 of 147 Old 08-15-2008, 03:03 AM
 
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This is the statement released by Optimum regarding their release of Escape From New York on Blu Ray...

"We at Optimum always try to provide our customers with the best possible quality video from the best source available to us. All our titles meet the required line count to qualify as 'High Definition', i.e. 1080p or 1080i. Contrary to reports on some fan forums, we have been assured by our supplier that the original source for the Blu-ray of Escape from New York is HD. We have not released and we will not release films on Blu-ray from masters we know to be up-scaled from SD PAL. The quality of HD masters of older films can vary and we are sorry if you are unhappy with the quality of picture on Escape From New York Blu-ray. Should a better master become available for this or any other Optimum title then we will endeavour to publish it as soon as feasible".


I think personally it's a disgrace and it's releases like these that damage the format. I know certain posters here get annoyed when we all start opening threads talking about DNR and bad releases like this but if we just let things slide then the studio's will screw us over again and again with sub par releases....If we complain on a board like this which is one of the biggest on the internet then there is more chance we will get quality releases and i hope the posters who are getting upset about all the DNR threads understand this.....I would also like to see Xylon post some positive screenshots of great releases to counterbalance the bad screenshot threads and thus hopefully silence the critics who say only the bad releases are being shown on these boards.
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post #83 of 147 Old 08-15-2008, 03:26 AM
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Quote:


"We at Optimum always try to provide our customers with the best possible quality video from the best source available to us. All our titles meet the required line count to qualify as 'High Definition', i.e. 1080p or 1080i.

Well that explains everything.

Quote:


Contrary to reports on some fan forums, we have been assured by our supplier that the original source for the Blu-ray of Escape from New York is HD.

That should read "is from a HD tape."

Quote:


We have not released and we will not release films on Blu-ray from masters we know to be up-scaled from SD PAL.

SD NTSC on the other hand...

Quote:


The quality of HD masters of older films can vary and we are sorry if you are unhappy with the quality of picture on Escape From New York Blu-ray. Should a better master become available for this or any other Optimum title then we will endeavour to publish it as soon as feasible".

Translation: We know it sucks and we're working on getting UHD and HDNet.

The whol thing is a classic example of zero quality control. No one noticed it wasn't real HD. Probably no one looked at the disc after reports came in. In the end it's going to be the supplier's fault. At least they didn't pull a total Universal and not say anything about it.
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post #84 of 147 Old 08-15-2008, 04:45 AM
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So what we need here is the DVD, the HD broadcast and the Blu-ray for a complete comparison. I think it may be better if I post the PIX here. Only fair

Any suggestion for a good scene to grab? timestamps?
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post #85 of 147 Old 08-15-2008, 05:50 PM
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Go for it Xylon!
I am pissed! About to mail my BD back to amazon UK!
left a response on amazon UK with this thread as proof for those who needed to see it.
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post #86 of 147 Old 08-16-2008, 11:09 AM
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I just received a rental copy of this today. As someone who's authored and encoded DVDs, it is my opinion that the source looks like a processed standard-def studio tape (and not a very appealing one, either): that is, marginally better than DVD, but way below 1080p standard. The film grain structure (or what's left of it) is thick and clumpy, it looks undoubtedly SD.

If Optimum are reading this, I urge them to look into it. Did the master tape come from France? Could there possibly have been a language barrier issue? For example, if Optimum requested an HDCAM SR tape of "Escape from New York", the facility could have made them one, using a Digital Betacam tape as a source. Optimum receive the HDCAM SR tape and make a disc out of it, completely unaware of the original source material.

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post #87 of 147 Old 08-16-2008, 07:32 PM
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post #88 of 147 Old 08-16-2008, 07:39 PM
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The 1st commentor is a moron, the Universal HD DVDs looks awesome compared to this. It's the worst transfer I've ever seen, including Gangs of NY.

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

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post #89 of 147 Old 08-16-2008, 08:33 PM
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Hey, I'm that first commentor.

So the WORST Universal releases like Traffic (also SD upconvert), Spartacus, Tremors, Cat People, 40 Year Old Virgin, Waterworld, etc. look so much better compared to this? C'mon. It's an upconverted abomination on a disc but at least it isn't a DNR tranwreck.
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post #90 of 147 Old 08-16-2008, 08:39 PM
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Well yeah Traffic is obvious as it was shot at DVD res(good thing I didn't like that move lol). Didn't see Spartacus or Cat People in HD. Tremors, Waterworld and even 40yr old Virgin look alot better than Escape From New York. Those are not upconverted half arsses as some may have been(Tremors looks great considering it's low budget source), EFNY is purely upconverted, and looks worse than the R1 SE DVD in places thanks to the massive edge halos, which were amot more minimal on DVD.

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

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