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post #1 of 153 Old 10-22-2008, 04:38 AM - Thread Starter
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"We try to be as true as we possibly can to what we believe the original director and cinematographer saw in their dailies when they were shooting the movie"

-John Lowry

Everything thats been done is based on approved masters. We are not trying to reinvent the films, but just to have them with more detail, more enhanced color, just a new fresh look at the films"

-James Owsley
Director Of Technical Services, MGM


 

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post #2 of 153 Old 10-22-2008, 04:39 AM - Thread Starter
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post #3 of 153 Old 10-22-2008, 04:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Special Edition DVD release date 2002

Ultimate Edition DVD release date 2008

Blu-ray: 27.10 GB

Bitrate: 29.32 mbps


Code:
                                                                                                                Total   Video                                             
Title                                                           Codec   Length  Movie Size      Disc Size       Bitrate Bitrate Main Audio Track                          Secondary Audio Track
-----                                                           ------  ------- --------------  --------------  ------- ------- ------------------                        ---------------------
Dr. No                                                          AVC     1:49:50 29,177,131,008  42,877,355,998  35.42   29.32   DTS-HD Master 5.1 3050Kbps (48kHz/24-bit) 


DISC INFO:

Disc Size:      42,877,355,998 bytes
Protection:     BD+
BD-Java:        Yes

PLAYLIST REPORT:

Name:           00025.mpls
Size:           29,177,131,008 bytes
Length:         1:49:50 (h:m:s)
Total Bitrate:  35.42 Mbps
Description:    

FILES:

Name            Size            Length          Time In         Time Out        
----            ----            ------          -------         --------        
00001.M2TS      29,177,131,008  1:49:50.458     0:00:00.000     1:49:50.458     

VIDEO:

Codec               Bitrate         Description     
-----               -------         -----------     
MPEG-4 AVC Video    29319 kbps      1080p / 23.976fps / 16:9 / High Profile 4.1

AUDIO:

Codec                           Language        Bitrate         Description     
-----                           --------        -------         -----------     
DTS-HD Master Audio             English         3050 kbps       5.1 / 48kHz / 24-bit / 3050kbps (DTS Core: 5.1 / 48kHz / 24-bit / 1536kbps)
Dolby Digital Audio             French          448 kbps        5.1 / 48kHz / 448kbps
Dolby Digital Audio             English         224 kbps        2.0 / 48kHz / 224kbps
Dolby Digital Audio             English         224 kbps        2.0 / 48kHz / 224kbps
Dolby Digital Audio             Spanish         224 kbps        2.0 / 48kHz / 224kbps

SUBTITLES:

Codec                           Language        Bitrate         Description     
-----                           --------        -------         -----------     
Presentation Graphics           English         34 kbps                         
Presentation Graphics           French          0 kbps                          
Presentation Graphics           Spanish         30 kbps                         
Presentation Graphics           Spanish         0 kbps                          

CHAPTERS:

Number          Time            Length          Avg Video Rate  Max 1-Sec Rate  Max 1-Sec Time  Max 5-Sec Rate  Max 5-Sec Time  Max 10Sec Rate  Max 10Sec Time  Avg Frame Size  Max Frame Size  Max Frame Time  
------          ----            ------          --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  
1               0:00:00.000     0:02:50.670     28,058 kbps     42,115 kbps     00:00:33.367    36,576 kbps     00:00:29.363    35,854 kbps     00:00:24.358    146,280 bytes   423,728 bytes   00:01:37.180    
2               0:02:50.670     0:03:43.015     34,487 kbps     36,960 kbps     00:03:11.066    35,447 kbps     00:04:00.407    35,247 kbps     00:04:27.476    179,801 bytes   400,690 bytes   00:04:05.245    
3               0:06:33.685     0:03:08.230     33,114 kbps     36,497 kbps     00:07:02.505    35,325 kbps     00:06:58.460    35,181 kbps     00:06:53.538    172,644 bytes   315,910 bytes   00:09:32.822    
4               0:09:41.915     0:06:44.946     28,842 kbps     35,828 kbps     00:09:59.849    34,876 kbps     00:09:58.848    34,562 kbps     00:09:54.302    150,369 bytes   291,757 bytes   00:12:27.997    
5               0:16:26.861     0:02:33.987     30,338 kbps     36,389 kbps     00:17:24.794    34,032 kbps     00:18:52.798    33,686 kbps     00:18:47.460    158,168 bytes   303,501 bytes   00:18:54.258    
6               0:19:00.848     0:03:05.644     31,045 kbps     38,020 kbps     00:19:26.999    35,084 kbps     00:19:33.255    34,931 kbps     00:19:27.333    161,857 bytes   425,147 bytes   00:20:47.288    
7               0:22:06.492     0:02:25.979     27,583 kbps     35,980 kbps     00:23:03.299    32,028 kbps     00:23:02.756    31,270 kbps     00:23:03.090    143,805 bytes   409,944 bytes   00:23:22.276    
8               0:24:32.471     0:02:11.131     28,478 kbps     34,935 kbps     00:26:42.643    29,970 kbps     00:24:39.353    29,683 kbps     00:24:36.934    148,473 bytes   407,064 bytes   00:26:43.644    
9               0:26:43.602     0:01:44.521     31,971 kbps     36,428 kbps     00:26:55.531    35,169 kbps     00:26:51.610    34,620 kbps     00:26:47.564    166,684 bytes   410,201 bytes   00:26:49.650    
10              0:28:28.123     0:02:54.132     28,820 kbps     33,269 kbps     00:28:28.832    32,097 kbps     00:31:14.706    31,766 kbps     00:31:11.078    150,254 bytes   317,712 bytes   00:28:39.593    
11              0:31:22.255     0:04:45.327     27,024 kbps     32,866 kbps     00:35:57.030    31,102 kbps     00:31:35.769    29,718 kbps     00:31:30.931    140,893 bytes   287,084 bytes   00:32:42.252    
12              0:36:07.582     0:01:31.675     30,930 kbps     34,846 kbps     00:37:38.298    32,497 kbps     00:37:34.294    31,701 kbps     00:37:29.289    161,256 bytes   327,778 bytes   00:37:39.299    
13              0:37:39.257     0:03:38.802     29,916 kbps     36,291 kbps     00:38:52.747    35,386 kbps     00:38:48.743    35,035 kbps     00:38:49.077    155,969 bytes   338,265 bytes   00:37:48.850    
14              0:41:18.059     0:03:20.158     26,114 kbps     37,833 kbps     00:44:36.841    30,832 kbps     00:41:26.776    29,787 kbps     00:41:27.402    136,147 bytes   321,860 bytes   00:44:36.549    
15              0:44:38.217     0:02:06.460     29,690 kbps     35,624 kbps     00:46:41.382    32,840 kbps     00:46:39.213    31,063 kbps     00:44:56.694    154,792 bytes   271,715 bytes   00:45:36.651    
16              0:46:44.677     0:01:34.219     31,302 kbps     34,860 kbps     00:48:17.436    33,304 kbps     00:48:13.432    32,867 kbps     00:48:08.552    163,195 bytes   296,611 bytes   00:47:05.489    
17              0:48:18.896     0:03:05.352     32,579 kbps     36,719 kbps     00:49:24.628    35,236 kbps     00:49:54.742    34,949 kbps     00:49:49.153    169,853 bytes   425,953 bytes   00:50:39.912    
18              0:51:24.248     0:04:04.327     29,819 kbps     36,793 kbps     00:51:36.260    34,761 kbps     00:51:32.214    33,294 kbps     00:53:00.302    155,463 bytes   457,756 bytes   00:51:37.136    
19              0:55:28.575     0:03:21.535     28,544 kbps     32,728 kbps     00:55:30.911    31,015 kbps     00:55:55.936    30,489 kbps     00:55:55.310    148,815 bytes   280,998 bytes   00:57:30.822    
20              0:58:50.110     0:03:05.811     23,021 kbps     28,952 kbps     00:58:59.494    27,396 kbps     00:59:14.885    26,447 kbps     00:59:14.009    120,023 bytes   281,366 bytes   01:01:53.084    
21              1:01:55.921     0:06:12.205     30,159 kbps     36,261 kbps     01:03:29.097    33,881 kbps     01:04:32.660    32,930 kbps     01:04:27.739    157,233 bytes   335,850 bytes   01:05:23.086    
22              1:08:08.126     0:04:31.729     32,365 kbps     37,771 kbps     01:10:21.551    35,461 kbps     01:11:46.052    35,219 kbps     01:11:46.135    168,738 bytes   481,951 bytes   01:12:14.372    
23              1:12:39.855     0:02:38.075     28,366 kbps     35,056 kbps     01:14:55.658    34,089 kbps     01:14:55.157    31,652 kbps     01:14:55.157    147,889 bytes   349,342 bytes   01:14:59.286    
24              1:15:17.930     0:02:46.375     24,895 kbps     30,442 kbps     01:16:38.219    27,528 kbps     01:16:35.132    26,310 kbps     01:16:30.294    129,793 bytes   280,283 bytes   01:15:19.140    
25              1:18:04.305     0:02:50.128     29,900 kbps     35,306 kbps     01:20:04.174    33,588 kbps     01:20:00.337    32,864 kbps     01:19:58.627    155,883 bytes   283,425 bytes   01:20:05.009    
26              1:20:54.433     0:05:34.167     29,140 kbps     34,021 kbps     01:21:02.608    32,323 kbps     01:20:59.855    31,646 kbps     01:20:59.855    151,923 bytes   319,969 bytes   01:21:07.529    
27              1:26:28.600     0:07:32.160     29,559 kbps     34,696 kbps     01:33:53.419    32,980 kbps     01:33:39.781    32,348 kbps     01:33:37.487    154,107 bytes   297,831 bytes   01:33:48.122    
28              1:34:00.760     0:05:02.511     27,221 kbps     36,399 kbps     01:38:57.557    34,661 kbps     01:38:57.682    34,057 kbps     01:38:20.853    141,919 bytes   330,057 bytes   01:38:55.805    
29              1:39:03.271     0:04:02.158     29,500 kbps     36,082 kbps     01:39:45.271    34,887 kbps     01:39:48.482    34,690 kbps     01:39:45.021    153,799 bytes   311,176 bytes   01:39:13.364    
30              1:43:05.429     0:02:13.592     29,915 kbps     35,788 kbps     01:44:39.690    34,516 kbps     01:44:37.938    33,940 kbps     01:44:32.975    155,964 bytes   278,746 bytes   01:43:31.831    
31              1:45:19.021     0:02:11.173     28,452 kbps     36,228 kbps     01:47:10.591    32,204 kbps     01:47:06.629    31,164 kbps     01:47:05.002    148,337 bytes   358,028 bytes   01:46:05.818    
32              1:47:30.194     0:02:20.265     28,203 kbps     37,858 kbps     01:49:13.422    35,839 kbps     01:49:09.460    35,437 kbps     01:49:04.455    147,040 bytes   344,390 bytes   01:49:14.882    

STREAM DIAGNOSTICS:

File            PID             Type            Seconds         Bytes           Packets         Bitrate         
----            ---             ----            -------         -----           -------         -------         
00001.M2TS      4113 (0x1011)   0x1B            6590.46         24,152,907,191  131,358,752     29,319          
00001.M2TS      4352 (0x1100)   0x86            6590.46         2,512,647,624   14,676,253      3,050           
00001.M2TS      4353 (0x1101)   0x81            6590.46         184,532,992     1,029,760       224             
00001.M2TS      4354 (0x1102)   0x81            6590.46         184,532,992     1,029,760       224             
00001.M2TS      4608 (0x1200)   0x90            6590.46         27,834,497      159,068         34              
00001.M2TS      4609 (0x1201)   0x90            6590.46         24,393,956      139,834         30              
00001.M2TS      4355 (0x1103)   0x81            6590.46         369,065,984     2,059,520       448             
00001.M2TS      4356 (0x1104)   0x81            6590.46         184,532,992     1,029,760       224             
00001.M2TS      4610 (0x1202)   0x90            6590.46         124,247         724             0               
00001.M2TS      4611 (0x1203)   0x90            6590.46         157,390         910             0
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post #4 of 153 Old 10-22-2008, 04:39 AM - Thread Starter
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For this movie the overall PQ is as good as it gets. Lowry Digital were able to work on the original camera negative (OCN). Of course that doesn't mean much on the how the final product will look like if the restorer has other plans. But on an ideal setting this is the one you want your studios to work on for you high definition disc. Especially on older films. Scanned at 4K it has the potential to even look better on future formats.

I have only watched Dr. No so I can't say if the PQ on other Bond films is on par. What I can tell you is for Dr. No the DNR used by Lowry did not result on any obvious smearing or waxy look of the film. Fine grain and HF details intact. There are artifacting on some scenes (Clue: beach) but its something most people won't notice when watching the movie. Much like what I saw with The Searchers. Although kind of suprising given the higher bitrate on this one.
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post #5 of 153 Old 10-22-2008, 04:40 AM - Thread Starter
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post #7 of 153 Old 10-22-2008, 05:03 AM - Thread Starter
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post #8 of 153 Old 10-22-2008, 06:42 AM
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What's up with all the macroblocking? You can clearly see compression artifacts all over that screenshot.
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post #9 of 153 Old 10-22-2008, 07:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sperron View Post



What's up with all the macroblocking? You can clearly see compression artifacts all over that screenshot.

What ?

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post #10 of 153 Old 10-22-2008, 07:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn View Post

What ?

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post #11 of 153 Old 10-22-2008, 07:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Its when Honey first met James at the beach where the artifacting were quite obvious (to me) while watching the movie.

This is pretty much the same situation as Sweeney Todd UK. The grainy nature sometimes "hides" these artifacts. Looking at screenshots they are very discernable.

I will leave it up to the viewers if its noticeable to them.
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post #12 of 153 Old 10-22-2008, 07:32 AM
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On the first pics, it is amazing how much better the UE DVD version is than the SE version. As for the Blu-Ray it seems to be icing on the cake. Much more fine detail (hair on his hands, wrinkles on his forehead, etc). Looking good so far, keep them coming Xylon. Dr. No is my favorite Connery Bond film and it arrives today from Amazon
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post #13 of 153 Old 10-22-2008, 07:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sperron View Post

What's up with all the macroblocking?

Uh, what macroblocking?

Back off man, I'm a scientist.
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post #14 of 153 Old 10-22-2008, 07:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xylon View Post

Its when Honey first met James at the beach where the artifacting were quite obvious (to me) while watching the movie.

This is pretty much the same situation as Sweeney Todd UK. The grainy nature sometimes "hides" these artifacts. Looking at screenshots they are very discernable.

I will leave it up to the viewers if its noticeable to them.

I haven't seen the disk, so I'm not going to debate what you are seeing. But, we're calling this 'macroblocking' now???

Back off man, I'm a scientist.
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post #15 of 153 Old 10-22-2008, 07:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

On the first pics, it is amazing how much better the UE DVD version is than the SE version.

well of course... SE has some freakishly thick EE halos (look at the cig) and a bunch of noise

definitely picking up some of these blurays later... but for now i'll drool at screenshots
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sharkcohen View Post

I haven't seen the disk, so I'm not going to debate what you are seeing. But, we're calling this 'macroblocking' now???

It coud be the wrong terminology, but if you look at the screenshot it's comprised of nothing but little squares that are various types of compression artifacts. It looks like when you create an overly compressed jpg. It is a testament to the new codecs that even when the compression artifacts are that bad, the movie still looks that good. Of course having 6 times the pixel density of 480p does help to hide a lot of problems like this.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xylon View Post

Its when Honey first met James at the beach where the artifacting were quite obvious (to me) while watching the movie.

This is pretty much the same situation as Sweeney Todd UK. The grainy nature sometimes "hides" these artifacts. Looking at screenshots they are very discernable.

I will leave it up to the viewers if its noticeable to them.

So you see macroblocks in that cap of Connery ?

Art
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post #18 of 153 Old 10-22-2008, 10:43 AM
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I think I notice it as well. At first I was mistaking it for film grain......unless im wrong?
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post #19 of 153 Old 10-22-2008, 10:44 AM
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Again, thank you Xylon

I like how these look, especially considering I havnt gotten the Ultimate editions so this is a huge jump for me
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post #20 of 153 Old 10-22-2008, 10:51 AM
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I don't see any macroblocking in that Blu Ray pic.

Sperron, what are you seeing?
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post #21 of 153 Old 10-22-2008, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xylon View Post

Its when Honey first met James at the beach where the artifacting were quite obvious (to me) while watching the movie.

This is pretty much the same situation as Sweeney Todd UK. The grainy nature sometimes "hides" these artifacts. Looking at screenshots they are very discernable.

I will leave it up to the viewers if its noticeable to them.

Well, hey! If they film grain is intact enough to "cover up" or "hide" compression artifacts then I think we are in good shape.
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post #22 of 153 Old 10-22-2008, 11:02 AM
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Well, all I could do is zoom in some areas which would do nothing but bring on complaints from the naysayers, but if you want to see some of the bad side effects from the compression artifacts look at the white cuff of his shirt. The compression artifacts have caused chroma errors and you see a red outline at the interface of the white cuff and the suit he is wearing. You can also see this to a lesser extent at the interface of his shirt and the black suit on the left side. There are also dark blue chroma errors in the suit of the gentleman standing behind him. Truthfully the chroma errors would be more annoying then the macroblocking in an instance like this. Basically it's the same type of macroblocking errors that people used to complain about with certain DVD player/HDTV combinations.

Also if you look at his open mouth, there isn't actually much detail there. It's just several big blurry macroblocks.

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post #23 of 153 Old 10-22-2008, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sperron View Post

Well, all I could do is zoom in some areas which would do nothing but bring on complaints from the naysayers, but if you want to see some of the bad side effects from the compression artifacts look at the white cuff of his shirt. The compression artifacts have caused chroma errors and you see a red outline at the interface of the white cuff and the suit he is wearing. You can also see this to a lesser extent at the interface of his shirt and the black suit on the left side. There are also dark blue chroma errors in the suit of the gentleman standing behind him. Truthfully the chroma errors would be more annoying then the macroblocking in an instance like this. Basically it's the same type of macroblocking errors that people used to complain about with certain DVD player/HDTV combinations.

Also if you look at his open mouth, there isn't actually much detail there. It's just several big blurry macrblocks.


I still don't see the macroblocks ,at least in that image.

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post #24 of 153 Old 10-22-2008, 11:26 AM
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I see what sperron is referring to in the pic, but I think 'macroblocking' is not the right word for it.

Back off man, I'm a scientist.
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post #25 of 153 Old 10-22-2008, 11:53 AM
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Wow, just noticed you put the beach scene up Xylon. I see how you would notice that.
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post #26 of 153 Old 10-22-2008, 12:19 PM
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While I can say that there are macroblock artifacts present, I have to agree with most others as to how visible they really are. They don't really stand out to me, either. Though I can imagine, they may give up their position when these scenes are viewed in motion, by the way the noise signature changes in response to a grouping of macroblock artifacts (unnaturally smoothed area, that interrupts the film grain).

I would describe these shots as mild dnr, fairly uniform noise throughout the image from black extreme to white, compression noise strength hanging in at right about the film grain strength. I could swear there are signs of deinterlace remnants scattered throughout the image (but not knowing more about Lowry's process for this title, I don't know why it would be there). Some chroma phase error at the white cuff towards the bottom? The instance of macroblock artifacts seems pretty consistent and regular across the image, possibly suggesting a less sophisticated 1-pass encoding style, as opposed to a more "adaptive" 2-pass? (An alternate theory could suggest that the macroblock artifacts are coming from the digital master, itself, but who really knows, if that is the case.)

I don't think there is much to really complain about, out of the stuff I mentioned, but I do wonder why some further encoder tweaking could have pulled back the artifacts just a notch more, so as to enable completely uninterrupted film grain rendition. Lowry is the king of restoration, as well, no? The results are not poor, by any stretch, but I would have expected even higher standards from a Lowry production.

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post #27 of 153 Old 10-22-2008, 12:39 PM
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Here's the "Hanky restoration":




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post #28 of 153 Old 10-22-2008, 01:45 PM
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Wow ! I would not have noticed that without the processed images but now I see them. The thing is the sharp edged 8x8 blocks I normally would have associated with that term are still not visible is the cap of Connery to me.

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post #29 of 153 Old 10-22-2008, 01:54 PM
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Actually, each of those tiny blocks is 8x8 (I checked). It's just that 1080p has 6 times the pixel density of 480p.
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post #30 of 153 Old 10-22-2008, 02:31 PM
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Yeah, I also noticed more blocking that usual for a Fox/MGM title when checking out the discs on my monitor. It's not the kind of blocking visible in normal viewing IMO.
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