"The Graduate" Review - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 56 Old 05-23-2009, 12:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Screencaps/comparisons are in for "The Graduate" at dvdbeaver. Gotta love it; looks pretty darn good. This flick will never look "HD sharp" due to the anamorphic lenses they used back in 1967; I've seen many different prints of this film over the years, and I can assure everyone that the film is always going to be just a little soft. While the reviewer is clearly disappointed compared to what the studio SHOULD have done with this classic release... I'm going to happily snap this puppy up, since it appears to be looking better than it ever has.

http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film/dvdcompare/graduate.htm

Ahhh... this was back in the day when the blocking of the actors within the frame was more important than rapid-fire editing to tell the story. And faces didn't have to be evenly lit for every little line of dialogue; some major sequences are filmed in near-silhouette! Masterful stuff; can't wait to see it on my big screen!
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post #2 of 56 Old 05-23-2009, 01:23 PM
 
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Holy crap! Now these are some screen caps I'll pay attention to. Color balance, contrast, and black level all look to be a huge improvement.

I'll admit great anticipation for this one as well. Obviously a great movie and an important piece of cinema history. Also, one of the greatest single scene edits ever. Anyone remember?
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post #3 of 56 Old 05-23-2009, 01:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert George View Post

Also, one of the greatest single scene edits ever. Anyone remember?

The "lunging forward on the bed"/"jumping onto flotation device in the pool"... of course! Gotta love it.

Great use of manipulating the focus, too... when Elaine realizes who Ben's been having the affair with: Elaine only comes into focus at the moment she fully understands. Fan-freakin'-tastic!
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post #4 of 56 Old 05-23-2009, 01:40 PM
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I would say this is an upgrade from the HD DVD I saw, it seem to have used the same master as the PAL DVD.
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post #5 of 56 Old 05-23-2009, 02:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MovieSwede View Post

I would say this is an upgrade from the HD DVD I saw, it seem to have used the same master as the PAL DVD.

Yep, definitely from a different master.

Thumbs up for the transfer.
Thumbs down for single layer disc.
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post #6 of 56 Old 05-23-2009, 02:07 PM
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Thanks for sharing the information. I can't wait for this title.
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post #7 of 56 Old 05-23-2009, 02:27 PM
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Sure has shifted towards the magenta. Nevertheless, this is one comedy I could see getting on Blu-ray.

CW Hinkle
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post #8 of 56 Old 05-23-2009, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaded Dogfood View Post

Sure has shifted towards the magenta.

That's mostly due to the colour space issue when capturing screenshots.

Compression could no doubt have been improved upon, but other than that it seems like a pretty good effort.
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post #9 of 56 Old 05-23-2009, 03:57 PM
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Wow! This looks great. I think I can safely sell the UK HD DVD I have now.

While Fox has been pretty stellar lately, MGM has been hit or miss. I'm glad to see that one of my favorite titles got the proper treatment it so richly deserves. I must admit I was worried that the bargain basement price might mean bargain basement quality. Not here. Sweet!
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post #10 of 56 Old 05-23-2009, 05:52 PM
 
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Quote:


Thumbs up for the transfer.
Thumbs down for single layer disc.

25 GB is more than adequate space for a stellar AVC or VC-1 encode of a film of this length (105 minutes), even with DTS Master audio and a decent supplements section (assuming there is one).

Maybe this is the next thing some of us have to get past, wastefulness/inefficiency for its own sake.
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post #11 of 56 Old 05-23-2009, 05:53 PM
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LOVE the film - but never owned it on DVD (laserdisc only) - so a must buy for me (regardless of quality).
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post #12 of 56 Old 05-23-2009, 07:34 PM
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From the Beaver review:

Disc Size: 21,403,381,704 bytes

Feature: 19,734,417,408 bytes

Codec: MPEG-2 Video

Total Bitrate: 24.84 Mbps


Since the Beaver never reports just the video bitrate, subtract approximately 3.5 Mbps for the DTS-HD MA soundtrack from the total bitrate to arrive at an average video bitrate of 21 Mbps. MPEG2 creates too many compression artifacts at that low of a bitrate in my experience. This encode was obviously done years ago and held back. I am still interested in the disc, but I am intrigued by the Beaver's comments about the possible French VC-1 edition.

Blu-ray Picture Quality Tiers (updated through July 13, 2017)
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post #13 of 56 Old 05-24-2009, 12:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantom Stranger View Post

but I am intrigued by the Beaver's comments about the possible French VC-1 edition.

I have seen the french edition, and even if its compressed better, the master is worse (look at the reddish PAL DVD screencap to get the picture)

So the latest BD, seem to be the best version.
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post #14 of 56 Old 05-24-2009, 07:18 AM
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I had the French HD DVD but had to part ways with it when.... Anyway, I will be more than happy to get the blu version soon.

4K HDR10- ignore the “rules” and trust your eyes!
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post #15 of 56 Old 05-24-2009, 09:41 AM
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So you guys are thrilled with the BD being an MPEG2 (circa 2006/2007) vs the HD DVD being a VC1
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post #16 of 56 Old 05-24-2009, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GizmoDVD View Post

So you guys are thrilled with the BD being an MPEG2 (circa 2006/2007) vs the HD DVD being a VC1

That doesn't matter much if the BD looks better for other reasons (e.g., a better master).
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post #17 of 56 Old 05-24-2009, 09:53 AM
 
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Looks amazing, picking this up soon [IMG]http://***************/9/P/i.jpg[/IMG]
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post #18 of 56 Old 05-24-2009, 09:53 AM
 
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Quote:


So you guys are thrilled with the BD being an MPEG2 (circa 2006/2007) vs the HD DVD being a VC1

I think you should re-read some of the comments.

Some of us focus on silly little things like color balance, contrast, black level, and the like instead of what codec might have been used to compress it and when it might have been done.

Not that some of the technical minutia doesn't make for vaguely interesting conversation sometimes, but only after the really important things have been ascertained. In other words, I'll take an average MPEG-2 encode of a great film transfer over a great AVC encode of an average film transfer. Speaking only as one who loves movies over technology, of course.
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post #19 of 56 Old 05-24-2009, 09:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert George View Post

I'll take an average MPEG-2 encode of a great film transfer over a great AVC encode of an average film transfer.

Well said!
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post #20 of 56 Old 05-24-2009, 09:59 AM
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Wow, I love this movie!!! This is great news that it's coming out on Blu-ray!
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post #21 of 56 Old 05-24-2009, 10:10 AM
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Why are some of the BR sceencaps darker then their counterparts?
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post #22 of 56 Old 05-24-2009, 10:27 AM
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The compression work looks a bit iffy, but otherwise looks good.
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post #23 of 56 Old 05-24-2009, 11:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert George View Post

I think you should re-read some of the comments.

Some of us focus on silly little things like color balance, contrast, black level, and the like instead of what codec might have been used to compress it and when it might have been done.

Not that some of the technical minutia doesn't make for vaguely interesting conversation sometimes, but only after the really important things have been ascertained. In other words, I'll take an average MPEG-2 encode of a great film transfer over a great AVC encode of an average film transfer. Speaking only as one who loves movies over technology, of course.

Problem is, this was done well over 2 years ago (when MGM was releasing crap transfers via MPEG2) - at the same time as the HD DVD by Studio Canal. It's very possible its the same master but one being a MPEG2 and the other VC1. I'll still pick this up for the love of the film but will put it through the testings with my HD DVD copy.
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post #24 of 56 Old 05-24-2009, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GizmoDVD View Post

Problem is, this was done well over 2 years ago (when MGM was releasing crap transfers via MPEG2) - at the same time as the HD DVD by Studio Canal. It's very possible its the same master but one being a MPEG2 and the other VC1. I'll still pick this up for the love of the film but will put it through the testings with my HD DVD copy.

It was some time since I saw the HD DVD version, but if my memory serves me correct, the new BD looks better.

It can be the same master, but they have at least color corrected it.
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post #25 of 56 Old 05-24-2009, 05:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MovieSwede View Post

It was some time since I saw the HD DVD version, but if my memory serves me correct, the new BD looks better.

It can be the same master, but they have at least color corrected it.

Too bad DVDBeaver didn't have the HD DVD to compare. Even more of shame MGM couldn't give this a fresh MPEG4 transfer. Guess we have the 'settle' because MGM is too damn lazy.
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post #26 of 56 Old 05-24-2009, 06:23 PM
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____US MPEG2 BD_____French VC1 HD DVD_









The French BD will be identical to the HD DVD because StudioCanal reuses their encodes in the same way Warner does. The audio quality on the HD DVD is also horrible.

In the 4th shot, if you brighten the BD, it reveals the same details as the HD DVD in the face area, so it's not crushed. In the 7th shot look how extremely fine the grain is compared to the HD DVD. Too bad it got such a bad encode.
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post #27 of 56 Old 05-24-2009, 06:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Wow... the new BD looks much better to me:

--much better color
--much better overall brightness (I always like "darker")
--more information on frame right

Can't wait!
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post #28 of 56 Old 05-31-2009, 08:29 PM
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I think wedding dress are supposed to be white

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post #29 of 56 Old 06-01-2009, 12:19 AM
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Wow. Those BD caps look so much better. Why the hell did they pump so much light into the other one?

It's settled then. No need to wait for a sale, this is in my hands on Tuesday.
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post #30 of 56 Old 06-01-2009, 04:44 AM
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Yeah, there's no question, this is a definite buy.
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