Star Trek: The Next Generation Motion Picture Collection *PIX* + reviews - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 212 Old 09-23-2009, 04:27 PM
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you'd think a studio when making transfers for a series of films that have a very VERY dedicated fanbase would actually give them the care and respect they deserve but then they release the films in this DNRed state

if fox does anything remotely like this to star wars I'M KILLING PEOPLE
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post #32 of 212 Old 09-23-2009, 04:35 PM
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What the hell, that's really frustrating. Looks like a fantastic transfer that's been completely needlessly smeared
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post #33 of 212 Old 09-23-2009, 04:42 PM
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The BD is better than the other two versions for sure. Jordy's stubble is actually visible in the First Contact BD shot whereas the broadcast shot makes it look very smeared.
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post #34 of 212 Old 09-23-2009, 07:27 PM
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I got to watch Generations tonight and I actually thought the color, contrast and detail were all rather fantastic. I only noticed the DNR in a few scenes. Same with edge enhancement that only seemed to appear in stock footage and a few odd shots.

I only noticed green push once or twice in the whole movie - and only for a very, very brief time. In the shot where they're in naval uniforms, the green push seems to disappear almost as soon as the camera moves. There's also one very weird segment when Scottie is on the screen where it seemed like the color in the scene fluctuated over a few frames.

Through the rest of the movie, skin colors actually seemed very natural and there was plenty of red in the picture.
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post #35 of 212 Old 09-23-2009, 08:58 PM
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I watched Generations tonight as well. My memory of this movie isn't that great since it was 15 years ago (WOW!).. These below shots look pretty disappointing in regards to DNR, but I must confess, that in motion this didn't look terrible. I certainly have seen worse. I took these shots to illustrate that there is enough detail to see that there are some (pretty bad) stunt people. This must have been a hell of a transfer before they hit the DNR switch.. Watched on a 40" 1080p LCD @ 7ft.


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post #36 of 212 Old 09-23-2009, 11:48 PM
 
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Quote:

This shot bothers me in First Contact. The H.264 shot seems to have a few specks on the print and very natural fine grain. The Blu Ray seems to have erased the very fine grain and Picard and Data and indeed everyone in the shot appears to have had a botox treatment and is now just a little glowing and plasticky looking.

I hope most of the movie does not look like this as the next screenshot from First Contact with Geordi in it that follows actually looks pretty good.

This brings up a point. Why erase such very fine grain in the first place as the grain is so fine it would not be noticeable in motion but would make a hell of a difference to the overall image quality at least in this shot shown above. ( In my opinion )
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post #37 of 212 Old 09-24-2009, 12:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FoxyMulder View Post

The H.264 shot seems to have . . . very natural fine grain.

I'm looking at it on a 42" 1080p display at 2 feet (it's on my desk). It's compression artifacts. Very bad compression artifacts.

Back off man, I'm a scientist.
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post #38 of 212 Old 09-24-2009, 12:07 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sharkcohen View Post

I'm looking at it on a 42" 1080p display at 2 feet (it's on my desk). It's compression artifacts. Very bad compression artifacts.

I'm only looking at it on a small computer monitor but the faces appear more natural on the H.264 edition. The H.264 edition appears to have fine grain on this monitor but if it's compression artifacts then i hold my hands up and say ok i got that wrong. The faces though do still appear better in that edition than the Blu Ray ( to me ) There appears to be a fine texture over the clothes that is missing in the Blu Ray edition which looks more smooth than it should be. Once again i may be wrong but thats how it looks to me.
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post #39 of 212 Old 09-24-2009, 05:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FoxyMulder View Post

Once again i may be wrong but thats how it looks to me.

I promise you are. Hell, you need look no further than Picard's lips to see the BD improvement.
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post #40 of 212 Old 09-24-2009, 06:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patsfan123 View Post

These below shots look pretty disappointing in regards to DNR

The one with Kirk and Picard is not DNR, its just Kirk that is out of focus.

Generations seem to be the best of the four.

And I dont understand the DNR of First contact. It was so clean in theaters I cant see why they needed to do anything about it.

But I guess the clean look from the beginning just gave it a very mild form of DNR.
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post #41 of 212 Old 09-24-2009, 07:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowrage View Post

The changed the color timing quite a bit on Generations didn't they? Which one is correct?

It looks like all of them are DNRd. Maybe it's in the masters.

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Originally Posted by ctiq21 View Post

Looks like there is a little DNR. In motion I haven't been able to detect it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt_Stevens View Post

BD is the best, by far, but clearly waxed on DNR and that is a shame.

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Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

Not even close for me. The Blu-Ray version looks the best by quite a bit. Looks like some DNR, but I can live with it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MovieSwede View Post

The one with Kirk and Picard is not DNR, its just Kirk that is out of focus.

Generations seem to be the best of the four.

And I dont understand the DNR of First contact. It was so clean in theaters I cant see why they needed to do anything about it.

But I guess the clean look from the beginning just gave it a very mild form of DNR.

DND, DNR & DNR To top it of "Generations" is the best of the bunch? Iv just watched it and its a EE/DNR mess.

What a shame.
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post #42 of 212 Old 09-24-2009, 08:14 AM
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I haven't watched the disc yet, but I'm not seeing any edge enhancement in these Generations caps.

Back off man, I'm a scientist.
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post #43 of 212 Old 09-24-2009, 08:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sharkcohen View Post

I haven't watched the disc yet, but I'm not seeing any edge enhancement in these Generations caps.

Me neither, and I havnt seen any DNR either on it, if we dont count in Kirks makeup.
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post #44 of 212 Old 09-24-2009, 08:27 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Filmmaker View Post

I promise you are. Hell, you need look no further than Picard's lips to see the BD improvement.

I guess it must just be me then as that shot reminds me of people with too much botox who glow and it looks very smooth and unfilmlike ( for want of a better word ) although i did recheck and there appears to be more detail on the uniform of Data in the Blu Ray edition.

Probably just this small monitor i'm using and the faults of the H.264 version in that particular dark screenshot are harder to see

Looking at the shots from Insurrection though and they match what i am seeing with the screenshot of First Contact and i actually prefer some of the H.264 shots especially from Insurrection which seems to have had possibly contrast boosting applied and i know the H.264 shots may contain artifacting. I do see more detail in the Blu Ray but it's not always about detail and i do like films to have a film look and for me i'm seeing more of a harsher processed look with some shots from Insurrection and that one shot above in First Contact.

Nemesis looks great and very film like as does Generations apart from that annoying green tint but i guess that one is better when viewing the actual movie.

This is just my thoughts when viewing these shots on a small computer monitor and i'm likely missing a lot but does anyone else think First Contact and Insurrection are a little contrast boosted or is it that the H.264 screenshots just lack some contrast ?
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post #45 of 212 Old 09-24-2009, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patsfan123 View Post

This must have been a hell of a transfer before they hit the DNR switch.

Yeah, the underlying transfers beneath the DNR looks like they were pretty good. Paramount really can't control themselves when it comes to the DNR button can they?

Nemesis looks quite good though, but maybe it came from a Digital Intermediate? Paramount doesn't seem to mess with DI's.

Even as bad as Insurrection is, at least we didn't get this: http://s166.photobucket.com/albums/u...k/e3291f42.png
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post #46 of 212 Old 09-24-2009, 11:13 AM
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the only thing that benefits from the DNR is Data's face looks even more unnatural and manufactured
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post #47 of 212 Old 09-24-2009, 11:31 AM
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From the opening credits of First Contact you can tell they have DNR turned on: at least on my display there is zero film grain during the Paramount logo, but once the movement settles down the grain magically reappears... really Paramount, do you have to DNR everything?

Memorandum to Paramount:

Stop trying to compensate for your ****** transfers and inability to pony up the cash for complete remasters by using a bunch of digital tools which are completely ineffective and end up making your product look worse. Gladiator and Star Trek VI are complete GARBAGE, and for an HD format we really do deserve better.

Fight mediocrity: Insist on BD50 discs for all movies longer than 100 minutes, optimized video encodes that fully utilize the available space, lossless audio track, and new masters for catalog titles!
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post #48 of 212 Old 09-24-2009, 01:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darkedgex View Post

from the opening credits of first contact you can tell they have dnr turned on: At least on my display there is zero film grain during the paramount logo, but once the movement settles down the grain magically reappears... Really paramount, do you have to dnr everything?

Memorandum to paramount:

Stop trying to compensate for your ****** transfers and inability to pony up the cash for complete remasters by using a bunch of digital tools which are completely ineffective and end up making your product look worse. Gladiator and star trek vi are complete garbage, and for an hd format we really do deserve better.

+1

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post #49 of 212 Old 09-24-2009, 01:43 PM
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Man, that DNR'ed shot of Picard in Insurrection is freaking me out. He look so strange.
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post #50 of 212 Old 09-24-2009, 02:07 PM
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Man the contrast on that one with Picard in the Nehru jacket and with Troi and Riker look like someone cranked the saturation and contrast to the max. Not a good look to me. Other shots look notably better.
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post #51 of 212 Old 09-24-2009, 08:20 PM
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I just finished watching Generations. I'm viewing it on a 52" 1080p LCD with a 6 foot viewing distance.

The good: color saturation and contrast. No edge enhancement or other sharpening that I can see. If the film has been 'contrast boosted', it was for the better.

The bad: DNR. In my opinion, it is on par with ST III. The outdoor scenes on Veridian 3 are particularly devoid of high frequency detail. These same scenes also have multiple examples of frozen grain. Also, Generations is green. The whole film. Why is Generations green???

Back off man, I'm a scientist.
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post #52 of 212 Old 09-24-2009, 09:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rover2002 View Post

DND, DNR & DNR To top it of "Generations" is the best of the bunch? Iv just watched it and its a EE/DNR mess.

What a shame.

There's very, very little EE in Generations. It's constrained to a few specific shots and likely results from all of the other sources they took footage from. Calling Generations a mess is hyperbole and nothing more, especially when we have actual messes like Gladiator to contend with.
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post #53 of 212 Old 09-24-2009, 10:58 PM
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Generations has its issues but it is definitely not a mess, and it will enjoy repeat viewings in my home. The exterior space shots look phenomenal.

Back off man, I'm a scientist.
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post #54 of 212 Old 09-25-2009, 12:02 AM
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Picard is looking right into my soul.....either that, or he was cast in the last season of True Blood...


In terms of LFE, size does matter!
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post #55 of 212 Old 09-25-2009, 01:45 AM
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I'm getting Patton flashbacks from that shot...
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post #56 of 212 Old 09-25-2009, 01:57 AM
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ugh. do not want.

i swear, if I see a hint of DNR in the new Star Trek film, I'll go ape s***.

anyways, its a shame. paramount has amazingly cost them my business for a second time this year with a Star Trek release.

hd-dvd vs blu-ray: whoever wins... we lose.
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post #57 of 212 Old 09-25-2009, 02:07 AM
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Has anyone seen the whole lot and can recommend any title if obvious DNR and EE are not welcome? Are Nemesis and First Contact 'ok'?
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post #58 of 212 Old 09-25-2009, 05:28 AM
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Very disappointed. Saw Braveheart right before purchasing this set and saw what Paramount is capable of... How did they screw this up so bad I only saw generations but could see EE right away in the opening credits and various halos and flickers later on. It's still the best presentation ever (light years ahead of the DVD) but they will re-release this to milk it. Would have bought it anyways being a trekkie (which Paramount knows damn well) and will most likely rebuy it later Glanced at First Contact and it seems a bit better. Don't care about Insurrection.. Hope Nemesis is relatively good looking considering it's a pretty recent movie.

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post #59 of 212 Old 09-25-2009, 05:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mhafner View Post

Has anyone seen the whole lot and can recommend any title if obvious DNR and EE are not welcome? Are Nemesis and First Contact 'ok'?

Only Nemesis was left alone. Its above and beyond the best in PQ among the other Trek movies. The rest have been DNR'd.
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post #60 of 212 Old 09-25-2009, 05:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Xylon View Post

.

Again, the "reviews" will come out and as usual will praise this ******* because its "better than DVD" along with excuses to why, why not and "So what?!

This sets are just a waste of time. Then again who cares? They already have your money. Right?

Hope you weren't referring to my post in your review, once again I'd only do this with Star Trek, I usually avoid PQ like this. I'm just as PO'ed as the next guy.

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