Apollo 13 comparison *PIX* - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #31 of 325 Old 04-17-2010, 10:08 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
MrHT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,191
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 104 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Ouch! The Blu-ray looks severely edge enhanced!
MrHT is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #32 of 325 Old 04-17-2010, 10:10 AM
Senior Member
 
Jason One's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 476
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked: 17
How did Universal screw this up so badly?

Thanks, Xylon, for exposing yet another failure.
Jason One is offline  
post #33 of 325 Old 04-17-2010, 10:36 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
spectator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 2,024
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kram Sacul View Post

Check out the white blob of clipped detail on Mrs. Lovell's shoulder.

Which may be an absolutely correct presentation, as far as you know (I'm going out on a limb to assume that you are not the cinematographer of this film). That detail is present on a negative is not a reliable indicator that it was intended to be seen by the audience.

I don't feel special...
spectator is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #34 of 325 Old 04-17-2010, 10:53 AM
Senior Member
 
BsRoz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 310
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by spectator View Post

Which may be an absolutely correct presentation, as far as you know (I'm going out on a limb to assume that you are not the cinematographer of this film). That detail is present on a negative is not a reliable indicator that it was intended to be seen by the audience.

Isn't it painfully obvious seeing these caps, in connection to the DNR/EE and Universals history of screw-ups, that they messed up once again?

They're catering to a distorted consumer-view of what HD should represent; bright, flashy, contrasty and without ' noise' (funnily enough the sharpening seems to have actually enhanced the grain).
BsRoz is offline  
post #35 of 325 Old 04-17-2010, 11:29 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Kilgore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Huntsville Ontario
Posts: 3,842
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 729 Post(s)
Liked: 440
Xylon, you've got to do a comparison of the shot of Jim Lovell's mom in the nursing home where she does the "if they can get a washing machine fly, my Jimmy could land it" line. The EE/DNR in the Blu-ray is frightening!
Kilgore is offline  
post #36 of 325 Old 04-17-2010, 11:30 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
DavidHir's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 14,265
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2532 Post(s)
Liked: 2198
Wow. What a POS! I wonder how some of the insiders out there will spin this one.

No sale.
DavidHir is offline  
post #37 of 325 Old 04-17-2010, 11:31 AM
Senior Member
 
hlwl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 318
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Wow... HD DVD is much better. What was Universal thinking? So disappointed...
hlwl is offline  
post #38 of 325 Old 04-17-2010, 11:40 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
eapleitez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,474
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Let's just say I'm glad I didn't get rid of any of my HD DVDs

_____________________________
eapleitez is offline  
post #39 of 325 Old 04-17-2010, 11:42 AM
Member
 
stevestevenson's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 124
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
horrible! Major step down
stevestevenson is offline  
post #40 of 325 Old 04-17-2010, 11:44 AM
Senior Member
 
HVisone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 463
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Should have read here, before I bought the Blu-ray..but the HD version was so very good, and the HBO version is also pretty good.......

And not being a fan of grain, NOT AT ALL....if the grain were all gone, it would not bother me at all except unfortunately, I am not a fan of overwheming DNR and EE.......and this movie is another disappointment

best move for Universal-Stop transferring, mastering.If not for the sake of the films, do it for our planet.-Harris;
TOO LATE; Out of Africa is out-the worst ever
HVisone is offline  
post #41 of 325 Old 04-17-2010, 12:08 PM
Member
 
stevestevenson's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 124
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by HVisone View Post

Should have read here, before I bought the Blu-ray..but the HD version was so very good, and the HBO version is also pretty good.......

And not being a fan of grain, NOT AT ALL....if the grain were all gone, it would not bother me at all except unfortunately, I am not a fan of overwheming DNR and EE.......and this movie is another disappointment

if the grain were all gone, it would not bother me at all

except unfortunately, I am not a fan of overwheming DNR

Those statements are at odds, you can't get rid of grain without overwhelming DNR. Or is it just DNR + EE you hate?
stevestevenson is offline  
post #42 of 325 Old 04-17-2010, 12:21 PM
Advanced Member
 
Flexx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: South Florida
Posts: 879
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Liked: 24
Returning the unopened Blu-ray and just bought a sealed HD-DVD for under $7.
Flexx is offline  
post #43 of 325 Old 04-17-2010, 12:33 PM
Advanced Member
 
Honey1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 555
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Oh my! I'll treasure my HD DVD and hope that the future brings us an even better transfer PQ wise, graced with lossless audio. Looking at Xylon's captures, I feel really blue, and someone at Universal should be red with shame
Honey1 is offline  
post #44 of 325 Old 04-17-2010, 01:16 PM
Advanced Member
 
surap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 950
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by christopher a View Post

Will still get rave reviews from most "professional" reviewers...HDD gave it 4.5 stars for video saying: "Technically, this presentation is leaps and bounds above the DVD presentation. This will delight videophiles and will give you great demo material to show to your friends. When they come over, show them the rocket taking off." Disgusting transfer.

I will show my friends how Universals Blu-ray disc "rockets" thru my window!
surap is offline  
post #45 of 325 Old 04-17-2010, 01:50 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Geoff D's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Swanage, Engerland
Posts: 2,706
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 352 Post(s)
Liked: 377
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flexx View Post

Returning the unopened Blu-ray and just bought a sealed HD-DVD for under $7.

This.

(And this is not the first time that I've done that with a Universal catalogue title - Army of Darkness, anyone?)
Geoff D is offline  
post #46 of 325 Old 04-17-2010, 01:50 PM
 
Fast Fizzy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 55
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I have the HDDVD and the Blu-ray and compared them on a D-ILA front projection system. Here are some observations...

The Blu-ray has not had excessive DNR applied. It is, however, over enhanced. I can't decide if this is the older transfer Uni did that was later scrapped for a very expensive remaster that was done for the last DVD special edition and used on the HDDVD, or a newer transfer that has been tweaked for HD broadcast. Much higher contrast, electronic sharpening, and oversaturated color are very evident in the master used for the Blu-ray. On the other hand, the HDDVD master looks dull and flat by comparison. The Blu-ray also exhibits visibly more fine detail, including enhancement of film grain. Also, the Blu-ray has what I consider a more accurate color balance. The HDDVD transfer has too much blue in it. It is the oversaturation that lends to the somewhat reddish cast to some facial tones. Lowering color saturation a bit improves this.

I expect some will find the Blu-ray disc to be subjectively more visually appealing than the HDDVD. I happen to prefer some aspects of the Blu-ray transfer over the HDDVD, but I also recognize some electronic enhancement has been somewhat over done. Neither is an ideal HD representation of the film, IMO.
Fast Fizzy is offline  
post #47 of 325 Old 04-17-2010, 02:32 PM
Advanced Member
 
philnerd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 664
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

Wow. What a POS! I wonder how some of the insiders out there will spin this one.

Well if Gladiator was any indication then the advice will be to
(a) sit further back from your television
(b) get a new hobby


Once again, I wish I was joking. But that's actual industry insider advice. I will not mention names.
philnerd is offline  
post #48 of 325 Old 04-17-2010, 02:35 PM
Senior Member
 
fuzz!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 305
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
So disappointing the entire industry's unending war on quality

Pity only a few HD-DVD titles were release in Australia..

While we got The Thing and Terminator 2.. Apollo 13 is as rare as hens teeth around here
fuzz! is offline  
post #49 of 325 Old 04-17-2010, 02:47 PM
Advanced Member
 
philnerd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 664
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Fizzy View Post

The Blu-ray also exhibits visibly more fine detail

Really?

philnerd is offline  
post #50 of 325 Old 04-17-2010, 03:01 PM
Senior Member
 
sirthx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: So Cal
Posts: 362
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
That is some 'Phantom Menace' level EE. Just awful. I almost give up. Music, now movies. Seems like we can't move forward.
sirthx is offline  
post #51 of 325 Old 04-17-2010, 03:04 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
rlsmith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Palo Alto, CA
Posts: 5,574
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Xylon, thanks for the scans, as usual.

Overall, the Blu-ray is the best I have seen this film look since theatrical release (when it was very grainy).

I saw the HD DVD and found it too grainy in an almost artificial way.

Yes there is DNR here. I am not sure it is too much. For me the experience is a good one. [I am watching on a 10 ft FP DLP system, which generally reveals problems pretty mercilously.]
rlsmith is offline  
post #52 of 325 Old 04-17-2010, 03:11 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
sharkcohen's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,040
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn View Post

Wow !!! Xylon, thanks for the work. The HDDVD stays put at my house. What were they thinking on the BD, DNR, EE and the HDDVD was fine already ? I guess the grain scared someone.

Art

And contrast boosted! And what is up with the colors? I'm fully convinced now that the home video departments in these studios don't know what the **** they are doing. I'll be hanging on to my HD DVD.

Back off man, I'm a scientist.
sharkcohen is offline  
post #53 of 325 Old 04-17-2010, 03:23 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
sharkcohen's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,040
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Fizzy View Post

Also, the Blu-ray has what I consider a more accurate color balance.

I haven't seen the disc, but I'm viewing these caps on a properly calibrated display. The colors in the BD caps look fluorescent.

Back off man, I'm a scientist.
sharkcohen is offline  
post #54 of 325 Old 04-17-2010, 03:26 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
lgans316's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Barking, Essex, London
Posts: 6,947
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 92 Post(s)
Liked: 62
No surprises here. I have never trusted Universal w.r to catalog titles except for The Thing on HD DVD. Aforementioned, Universal needs to focus on catalog titles. However, they are doing fine with new titles. The biggest joke is calling this the 15th Anniversary Edition as the effort put has gone waste.

Blu-ray : 340
lgans316 is offline  
post #55 of 325 Old 04-17-2010, 03:41 PM
 
Fast Fizzy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 55
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by philnerd View Post

Really?


Yeah, really. I was comparing two discs in real time, not two zoomed, cropped still frames. Maybe you can try actually looking at a Blu-ray when posting in a Blu-ray forum.
Fast Fizzy is offline  
post #56 of 325 Old 04-17-2010, 04:44 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Kram Sacul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 5,232
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by spectator View Post

Which may be an absolutely correct presentation, as far as you know (I'm going out on a limb to assume that you are not the cinematographer of this film). That detail is present on a negative is not a reliable indicator that it was intended to be seen by the audience.

I'm pretty sure her shoulder wasn't meant to be an electronically clipped patch of white. Film doesn't usually react that way (see Ghostbusters BD).

This Bluray Disc:



And screw Universal for butchering catalog title after catalog title. The Thing, Army of Darkness, Do the Right Thing, Pitch Black, Brokeback Mountain, Waterworld, U5701, etc. And these are just their Blu-ray titles. Just wait till they finally get around to releasing Tremors. Professional reviewers might have to give that a 4.5 instead of the usual 5 for "slight EE".
Kram Sacul is offline  
post #57 of 325 Old 04-17-2010, 05:13 PM
Advanced Member
 
philnerd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 664
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Fizzy View Post

Yeah, really. I was comparing two discs in real time, not two zoomed, cropped still frames. Maybe you can try actually looking at a Blu-ray when posting in a Blu-ray forum.

I'd have to guess then that perhaps your vision responds positively to the effects of edge enhancement. Because the Blu-Ray in fact absolutely does not have more detail.
philnerd is offline  
post #58 of 325 Old 04-17-2010, 05:15 PM
Advanced Member
 
bt12483's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 796
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kram Sacul View Post

...Professional reviewers might have to give that a 4.5 instead of the usual 5 for "slight EE".

So why don't you review movies? You know everything.
bt12483 is offline  
post #59 of 325 Old 04-17-2010, 05:23 PM
sb1
AVS Forum Special Member
 
sb1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 7,751
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 439 Post(s)
Liked: 382
Quote:
Originally Posted by bt12483 View Post

So why don't you review movies? You know everything.

Perhaps he was saying that "professional" reviews aren't worth much...

And in some cases, I'd agree.

Stephen.

Chances are very good that I was drinking when I posted the above.

sb1 is offline  
post #60 of 325 Old 04-17-2010, 05:39 PM
Advanced Member
 
bt12483's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 796
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by sb1 View Post

Perhaps he was saying that "professional" reviews aren't worth much...

And in some cases, I'd agree.

And professional baseball players strikeout. Professional QBs throw INTs.

Easy for me to criticize when I am anonymously sitting on the couch...maybe if I ever got on the field myself I would have a different perspective. If I had the ability that is. Since some here clearly have a keen mark on movies as second nature as lucas has on his star wars, you would think they would step up to the plate with their abilities. I mean with their expertise and experience and knowledge, they could give the home entertainment world a definitive source for movies on discs reviews. And put those other "professional" reviewers to shame.
bt12483 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Blu-ray Software

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off