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post #91 of 247 Old 04-25-2010, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Tomlin View Post

I watched this last night, and would say that it is probably the best BD I have seen yet in terms of PQ.

Anyone else notice that the "jaggies" that are present on the Fox logo at the beginning on all other Fox titles were noticeably missing on Avatar?!

Assuming they used the same one from the theatrical release, it's a newly-rendered 3D logo animation, which would explain why it looks sharper here.

Anybody here watch Top Gear? You know the Cool Wall? Different ratings for different cars and such? They have four ratings.. "Seriously Uncool", "Uncool", "Cool", and "Sub-Zero". Kind of like our Tier ratings here on AVS for PQ. Well, they have a fifth rating on Top Gear.. the "DB9 section", a little freezer that has only the Aston Martin DB9 in it, above and beyond all the others.

So, should we create another rating for this one? Tier 1, Tier 0, and then the Avatar section?

Welcome to Rivendell, Mister Anderson.
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post #92 of 247 Old 04-25-2010, 11:11 AM
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I shared the experience with my family last night. Oh yes,...they were blown away (as I continue to be). My wife said she could see detail that...she never saw at the theater. Simply amazing.

If you want an argument for the blu-ray format, AVATAR is it.
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post #93 of 247 Old 04-25-2010, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedi2016 View Post

So, should we create another rating for this one? Tier 1, Tier 0, and then the Avatar section?

I say no. All the Tier 0 films are pristine representations of the original source material. Avatar looks as good as it does, not only because of the splendid transfer, but also because of the groundbreaking digital work put into the creation of the film itself. No Blu-ray out there looks as good as Avatar, but there are a good number totally deserving of Tier 0 status.

For example, IMHO, Hot Fuzz is definitely Tier 0 material and no transfer in the world is ever going make it look as good as Avatar. Not even the Pixar films can match Avatar (and never will), and they're all gorgeous.
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post #94 of 247 Old 04-25-2010, 12:08 PM - Thread Starter
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post #95 of 247 Old 04-25-2010, 02:26 PM
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Here are the BD Info Results of the European (Germany) Disc:

Code:
                                                                                                                Total   Video                                             
Title                                                           Codec   Length  Movie Size      Disc Size       Bitrate Bitrate Main Audio Track                          Secondary Audio Track
-----                                                           ------  ------- --------------  --------------  ------- ------- ------------------                        ---------------------
00802.MPLS                                                      AVC     2:41:41 47'541'110'784  49'013'370'811  39.20   28.82   DTS-HD Master 5.1 4146Kbps (48kHz/24-bit)
Code:
DISC INFO:

Disc Title:     RED_BIRD_2D_F3
Disc Size:      49'013'370'811 bytes
Protection:     BD+
BD-Java:        Yes
BDInfo:         0.5.3

PLAYLIST REPORT:

Name:                   00802.MPLS
Length:                 2:41:41 (h:m:s)
Size:                   47'541'110'784 bytes
Total Bitrate:          39.20 Mbps

VIDEO:

Codec                   Bitrate             Description     
-----                   -------             -----------     
MPEG-4 AVC Video        28817 kbps          1080p / 23.976 fps / 16:9 / High Profile 4.1

AUDIO:

Codec                           Language        Bitrate         Description     
-----                           --------        -------         -----------     
DTS-HD Master Audio             English         4146 kbps       5.1 / 48 kHz / 4146 kbps / 24-bit (DTS Core: 5.1 / 48 kHz / 1509 kbps / 24-bit)
DTS Audio                       French          768 kbps        5.1 / 48 kHz / 768 kbps / 24-bit
DTS Audio                       German          1509 kbps       5.1 / 48 kHz / 1509 kbps / 24-bit
Dolby Digital Audio             Czech           448 kbps        5.1 / 48 kHz / 448 kbps
Dolby Digital Audio             Hungarian       448 kbps        5.1 / 48 kHz / 448 kbps
Dolby Digital Audio             Slovak          448 kbps        5.1 / 48 kHz / 448 kbps

SUBTITLES:

Codec                           Language        Bitrate         Description     
-----                           --------        -------         -----------     
Presentation Graphics           English         24.863 kbps                     
Presentation Graphics           Bulgarian       20.745 kbps                     
Presentation Graphics           Croatian        19.764 kbps                     
Presentation Graphics           Czech           20.673 kbps                     
Presentation Graphics           Danish          22.906 kbps                     
Presentation Graphics           Dutch           21.379 kbps                     
Presentation Graphics           Finnish         21.679 kbps                     
Presentation Graphics           French          20.180 kbps                     
Presentation Graphics           French          1.535 kbps                      
Presentation Graphics           German          27.247 kbps                     
Presentation Graphics           Greek           23.021 kbps                     
Presentation Graphics           Hungarian       24.754 kbps                     
Presentation Graphics           Norwegian       20.641 kbps                     
Presentation Graphics           Portuguese      25.017 kbps                     
Presentation Graphics           Slovak          23.114 kbps                     
Presentation Graphics           Slovenian       19.364 kbps                     
Presentation Graphics           Swedish         21.978 kbps                     

FILES:

Name            Time In         Length          Size            Total Bitrate   
----            -------         ------          ----            -------------   
00002.M2TS      0:00:00.000     2:41:41.691     47'541'110'784  39'202          

CHAPTERS:

Number          Time In         Length          Avg Video Rate  Max 1-Sec Rate  Max 1-Sec Time  Max 5-Sec Rate  Max 5-Sec Time  Max 10Sec Rate  Max 10Sec Time  Avg Frame Size  Max Frame Size  Max Frame Time  
------          -------         ------          --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  
1               0:00:00.000     0:06:17.960     30'589 kbps     55'557 kbps     00:00:55.847    39'891 kbps     00:05:07.932    37'270 kbps     00:05:02.885    159'461 bytes   830'273 bytes   00:03:03.349    
2               0:06:17.960     0:01:35.637     20'195 kbps     38'132 kbps     00:06:25.843    35'304 kbps     00:06:25.134    32'842 kbps     00:06:19.754    105'289 bytes   534'519 bytes   00:06:18.878    
3               0:07:53.598     0:04:11.292     28'075 kbps     40'843 kbps     00:09:57.805    35'370 kbps     00:09:57.888    34'422 kbps     00:09:53.801    146'373 bytes   671'348 bytes   00:10:11.819    
4               0:12:04.890     0:01:55.573     27'795 kbps     40'434 kbps     00:12:12.314    38'732 kbps     00:12:10.813    36'865 kbps     00:12:10.813    144'911 bytes   695'359 bytes   00:12:19.822    
5               0:14:00.464     0:06:00.109     29'594 kbps     57'476 kbps     00:17:49.401    37'636 kbps     00:18:25.521    36'593 kbps     00:18:23.143    154'289 bytes   706'960 bytes   00:18:36.490    
6               0:20:00.574     0:03:59.656     25'350 kbps     53'701 kbps     00:23:43.672    39'496 kbps     00:21:43.093    35'570 kbps     00:23:49.970    132'163 bytes   721'300 bytes   00:22:53.497    
7               0:24:00.230     0:02:53.047     30'786 kbps     47'860 kbps     00:25:26.525    39'308 kbps     00:24:42.147    36'819 kbps     00:25:26.525    160'502 bytes   630'823 bytes   00:25:26.566    
8               0:26:53.278     0:04:48.621     34'718 kbps     48'482 kbps     00:29:08.037    39'593 kbps     00:30:52.809    36'912 kbps     00:29:44.491    181'003 bytes   668'946 bytes   00:29:18.089    
9               0:31:41.899     0:01:51.528     27'093 kbps     42'230 kbps     00:33:16.369    35'091 kbps     00:33:20.623    33'183 kbps     00:33:13.449    141'251 bytes   595'801 bytes   00:33:33.428    
10              0:33:33.428     0:02:10.421     34'574 kbps     51'458 kbps     00:34:35.406    40'051 kbps     00:34:20.933    37'525 kbps     00:34:20.933    180'251 bytes   652'230 bytes   00:33:44.188    
11              0:35:43.849     0:07:48.009     30'928 kbps     44'988 kbps     00:37:04.096    37'050 kbps     00:37:01.302    36'394 kbps     00:35:44.225    161'245 bytes   508'688 bytes   00:42:10.236    
12              0:43:31.859     0:05:51.768     27'330 kbps     46'002 kbps     00:48:33.827    33'655 kbps     00:44:12.191    32'681 kbps     00:44:14.193    142'488 bytes   651'186 bytes   00:48:34.161    
13              0:49:23.627     0:05:06.347     25'757 kbps     38'982 kbps     00:50:13.885    36'724 kbps     00:49:46.149    33'886 kbps     00:49:44.356    134'283 bytes   699'276 bytes   00:50:14.594    
14              0:54:29.974     0:05:26.075     30'783 kbps     45'354 kbps     00:58:18.077    39'627 kbps     00:58:16.409    37'225 kbps     00:57:50.967    160'487 bytes   602'254 bytes   00:57:34.117    
15              0:59:56.050     0:05:14.147     26'021 kbps     39'498 kbps     01:01:07.705    34'825 kbps     01:01:12.502    32'720 kbps     01:03:37.730    135'659 bytes   641'816 bytes   01:03:40.775    
16              1:05:10.197     0:06:26.219     29'427 kbps     44'874 kbps     01:09:10.354    36'207 kbps     01:09:10.354    33'407 kbps     01:09:28.539    153'418 bytes   581'218 bytes   01:09:11.313    
17              1:11:36.417     0:03:34.589     28'264 kbps     37'210 kbps     01:11:48.220    32'959 kbps     01:13:53.512    32'284 kbps     01:13:53.137    147'353 bytes   525'480 bytes   01:13:24.817    
18              1:15:11.006     0:05:18.109     24'994 kbps     42'566 kbps     01:20:08.345    35'856 kbps     01:15:13.884    34'084 kbps     01:15:11.006    130'305 bytes   577'196 bytes   01:17:46.036    
19              1:20:29.115     0:04:12.794     25'494 kbps     42'277 kbps     01:21:11.074    34'391 kbps     01:21:10.365    32'395 kbps     01:21:10.365    132'916 bytes   635'357 bytes   01:21:25.130    
20              1:24:41.910     0:11:22.890     29'426 kbps     52'049 kbps     01:25:43.429    39'679 kbps     01:34:51.435    36'902 kbps     01:25:34.879    153'415 bytes   714'463 bytes   01:34:23.991    
21              1:36:04.800     0:01:50.985     28'519 kbps     32'396 kbps     01:37:29.635    30'892 kbps     01:36:10.055    30'416 kbps     01:37:19.083    148'683 bytes   448'256 bytes   01:37:55.786    
22              1:37:55.786     0:06:37.313     34'535 kbps     49'159 kbps     01:42:44.825    39'694 kbps     01:38:52.635    37'068 kbps     01:43:33.832    180'052 bytes   796'791 bytes   01:39:19.745    
23              1:44:33.099     0:03:42.388     32'504 kbps     46'895 kbps     01:47:48.503    39'796 kbps     01:47:18.140    37'249 kbps     01:45:32.534    169'460 bytes   677'404 bytes   01:47:48.712    
24              1:48:15.488     0:05:38.379     24'212 kbps     44'645 kbps     01:48:16.490    35'113 kbps     01:49:23.890    34'047 kbps     01:49:21.137    126'233 bytes   596'806 bytes   01:48:23.163    
25              1:53:53.868     0:01:39.015     31'523 kbps     45'941 kbps     01:54:47.755    39'360 kbps     01:54:08.591    36'749 kbps     01:55:04.772    164'349 bytes   510'631 bytes   01:54:08.675    
26              1:55:32.884     0:03:05.935     26'052 kbps     43'663 kbps     01:55:37.013    36'171 kbps     01:56:51.295    34'161 kbps     01:57:47.560    135'822 bytes   656'677 bytes   01:57:47.602    
27              1:58:38.819     0:03:26.748     27'347 kbps     45'948 kbps     02:00:14.040    39'436 kbps     02:00:10.453    36'962 kbps     01:59:04.929    142'574 bytes   702'398 bytes   01:59:14.939    
28              2:02:05.568     0:03:28.291     27'515 kbps     44'863 kbps     02:05:01.660    39'811 kbps     02:04:59.533    36'190 kbps     02:04:55.029    143'452 bytes   642'632 bytes   02:04:45.936    
29              2:05:33.859     0:04:27.976     27'392 kbps     42'036 kbps     02:08:10.891    37'613 kbps     02:07:53.415    36'006 kbps     02:07:08.370    142'809 bytes   685'054 bytes   02:05:37.029    
30              2:10:01.835     0:06:05.448     34'597 kbps     49'267 kbps     02:15:35.001    39'815 kbps     02:14:02.826    37'125 kbps     02:14:46.787    180'371 bytes   802'220 bytes   02:10:48.048    
31              2:16:07.283     0:03:43.556     34'699 kbps     48'203 kbps     02:17:56.851    39'465 kbps     02:17:54.933    37'036 kbps     02:17:19.397    180'904 bytes   703'033 bytes   02:19:35.075    
32              2:19:50.840     0:05:59.484     34'844 kbps     50'246 kbps     02:25:22.588    39'436 kbps     02:25:01.651    37'365 kbps     02:20:59.284    181'662 bytes   708'324 bytes   02:22:38.299    
33              2:25:50.324     0:05:23.740     31'652 kbps     46'702 kbps     02:30:35.693    38'294 kbps     02:26:55.640    37'036 kbps     02:27:09.320    165'017 bytes   670'742 bytes   02:27:08.569    
34              2:31:14.064     0:03:51.230     26'226 kbps     38'859 kbps     02:31:39.965    35'423 kbps     02:34:09.240    34'205 kbps     02:34:05.945    136'728 bytes   540'109 bytes   02:34:23.504    
35              2:35:05.295     0:06:35.395     14'797 kbps     41'284 kbps     02:35:48.172    35'213 kbps     02:35:13.679    33'779 kbps     02:35:13.595    77'145 bytes    772'426 bytes   02:35:58.182    
36              2:41:40.690     0:00:01.001     78 kbps         0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 kbps          00:00:00.000    425 bytes       534 bytes       02:41:41.650    

STREAM DIAGNOSTICS:

File            PID             Type            Codec           Language                Seconds                 Bitrate                 Bytes           Packets         
----            ---             ----            -----           --------                --------------          --------------          -------------   -----           
00002.M2TS      4113 (0x1011)   0x1B            AVC                                     9701.567                28'817                  34'946'247'992  190'060'472     
00002.M2TS      4352 (0x1100)   0x86            DTS-HD MA       eng (English)           9701.567                4'146                   5'027'442'684   28'836'317      
00002.M2TS      4353 (0x1101)   0x82            DTS             fra (French)            9701.567                768                     931'363'840     5'457'210       
00002.M2TS      4354 (0x1102)   0x82            DTS             deu (German)            9701.567                1'509                   1'829'984'420   10'914'420      
00002.M2TS      4355 (0x1103)   0x81            AC3             ces (Czech)             9701.567                448                     543'296'768     3'031'790       
00002.M2TS      4356 (0x1104)   0x81            AC3             hun (Hungarian)         9701.567                448                     543'296'768     3'031'790       
00002.M2TS      4357 (0x1105)   0x81            AC3             slk (Slovak)            9701.567                448                     543'296'768     3'031'790       
00002.M2TS      4608 (0x1200)   0x90            PGS             eng (English)           9701.567                25                      30'151'805      173'452         
00002.M2TS      4609 (0x1201)   0x90            PGS             fra (French)            9701.567                20                      24'472'126      144'049         
00002.M2TS      4610 (0x1202)   0x90            PGS             dan (Danish)            9701.567                23                      27'777'924      160'571         
00002.M2TS      4611 (0x1203)   0x90            PGS             fin (Finnish)           9701.567                22                      26'290'568      152'413         
00002.M2TS      4612 (0x1204)   0x90            PGS             deu (German)            9701.567                27                      33'043'205      189'113         
00002.M2TS      4613 (0x1205)   0x90            PGS             nld (Dutch)             9701.567                21                      25'926'533      150'487         
00002.M2TS      4614 (0x1206)   0x90            PGS             nor (Norwegian)         9701.567                21                      25'031'311      145'655         
00002.M2TS      4615 (0x1207)   0x90            PGS             swe (Swedish)           9701.567                22                      26'653'347      154'451         
00002.M2TS      4616 (0x1208)   0x90            PGS             bul (Bulgarian)         9701.567                21                      25'157'441      147'487         
00002.M2TS      4617 (0x1209)   0x90            PGS             hrv (Croatian)          9701.567                20                      23'968'111      139'778         
00002.M2TS      4618 (0x120A)   0x90            PGS             ces (Czech)             9701.567                21                      25'070'020      145'856         
00002.M2TS      4619 (0x120B)   0x90            PGS             ell (Greek)             9701.567                23                      27'917'469      161'305         
00002.M2TS      4620 (0x120C)   0x90            PGS             hun (Hungarian)         9701.567                25                      30'019'932      172'770         
00002.M2TS      4621 (0x120D)   0x90            PGS             por (Portuguese)        9701.567                25                      30'338'467      174'447         
00002.M2TS      4622 (0x120E)   0x90            PGS             slv (Slovenian)         9701.567                19                      23'483'420      137'200         
00002.M2TS      4623 (0x120F)   0x90            PGS             slk (Slovak)            9701.567                23                      28'030'978      161'958         
00002.M2TS      4624 (0x1210)   0x90            PGS             fra (French)            9701.567                2                       1'862'075       10'763


Bitrate for Video is exactly the same as the us.
I think its all over the world the same with only different Audio Tracks.

Greetings
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post #96 of 247 Old 04-25-2010, 02:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dvdmike007 View Post

It really is a great DVD transfer

It looks really great on my iPhone.

Back off man, I'm a scientist.
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post #97 of 247 Old 04-25-2010, 05:09 PM
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Obviously a great looking disc, but the live action scenes fall well short of the newer IMAX stuff to my eyes. Some of the all CGI scenes in this are more impressive than anything else out there though..
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post #98 of 247 Old 04-25-2010, 05:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean_O View Post

Obviously a great looking disc, but the live action scenes fall well short of the newer IMAX stuff to my eyes. Some of the all CGI scenes in this are more impressive than anything else out there though..

Yeah there's still something that makes me uneasy about watching digital video in live-action scenes. There are a lot of moments, like someone else said, that would make most of us cry DNR-foul if it was something that was shot on film.
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post #99 of 247 Old 04-25-2010, 05:47 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean_O View Post

Obviously a great looking disc, but the live action scenes fall well short of the newer IMAX stuff to my eyes. Some of the all CGI scenes in this are more impressive than anything else out there though..

Agreed. A lot of people don't seem to be noticing though, which is surprising. The rest of the footage, i.e., anything in the forests of Pandora, is apparently enough to block the negatives of the digital filmmaking.
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post #100 of 247 Old 04-25-2010, 05:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gamereviewgod View Post

Agreed. A lot of people don't seem to be noticing though, which is surprising. The rest of the footage, i.e., anything in the forests of Pandora, is apparently enough to block the negatives of the digital filmmaking.

I don't think the CG would come off as well as it does if the live action footage looked more natural.
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post #101 of 247 Old 04-25-2010, 08:12 PM
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i thought the live action bits were CGI too before someone told me it was actually live action

part of it was because i remember reading something about James Cameron working on some 3D movie that would "put beowulf to shame" so i assumed they were talking about motion captured CGI like beowulf and the live action bits in the trailers did look like really good CGI (hell... even in the movie it looks like really good CGI at times)

i should probably add that i never saw this in the theater... i opted to see sherlock holmes instead
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post #102 of 247 Old 04-25-2010, 08:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xylon View Post

Blu-ray file size: 41.80 GB

Bitrate: 28.82 mbps AVC


Code:
                                                                                                                Total   Video                                             
Title                                                           Codec   Length  Movie Size      Disc Size       Bitrate Bitrate Main Audio Track                          Secondary Audio Track
-----                                                           ------  ------- --------------  --------------  ------- ------- ------------------                        ---------------------
00802.MPLS                                                      AVC     2:41:41 44,897,476,608  46,353,881,213  37.02   28.82   DTS-HD Master 5.1 4146Kbps (48kHz/24-bit) DD AC3 5.1 448Kbps
Code:
DISC INFO:

Disc Title:     RED_BIRD_2D_WW
Disc Size:      46,353,881,213 bytes
Protection:     BD+
BD-Java:        Yes
BDInfo:         0.5.3

PLAYLIST REPORT:

Name:                   00802.MPLS
Length:                 2:41:41 (h:m:s)
Size:                   44,897,476,608 bytes
Total Bitrate:          37.02 Mbps

VIDEO:

Codec                   Bitrate             Description     
-----                   -------             -----------     
MPEG-4 AVC Video        28817 kbps          1080p / 23.976 fps / 16:9 / High Profile 4.1

AUDIO:

Codec                           Language        Bitrate         Description     
-----                           --------        -------         -----------     
DTS-HD Master Audio             English         4146 kbps       5.1 / 48 kHz / 4146 kbps / 24-bit (DTS Core: 5.1 / 48 kHz / 1509 kbps / 24-bit)
Dolby Digital Audio             English         448 kbps        5.1 / 48 kHz / 448 kbps
Dolby Digital Audio             French          448 kbps        5.1 / 48 kHz / 448 kbps
Dolby Digital Audio             Portuguese      448 kbps        5.1 / 48 kHz / 448 kbps
Dolby Digital Audio             Spanish         448 kbps        5.1 / 48 kHz / 448 kbps
Dolby Digital Audio             English         224 kbps        2.0 / 48 kHz / 224 kbps / Dolby Surround

SUBTITLES:

Codec                           Language        Bitrate         Description     
-----                           --------        -------         -----------     
Presentation Graphics           English         33.040 kbps                     
Presentation Graphics           French          1.535 kbps                      
Presentation Graphics           Portuguese      23.981 kbps                     
Presentation Graphics           Spanish         23.820 kbps                     

FILES:

Name            Time In         Length          Size            Total Bitrate   
----            -------         ------          ----            -------------   
00002.M2TS      0:00:00.000     2:41:41.691     44,897,476,608  37,022          

CHAPTERS:

Number          Time In         Length          Avg Video Rate  Max 1-Sec Rate  Max 1-Sec Time  Max 5-Sec Rate  Max 5-Sec Time  Max 10Sec Rate  Max 10Sec Time  Avg Frame Size  Max Frame Size  Max Frame Time  
------          -------         ------          --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  
1               0:00:00.000     0:06:17.960     30,589 kbps     55,557 kbps     00:00:55.847    39,891 kbps     00:05:07.932    37,270 kbps     00:05:02.885    159,461 bytes   830,273 bytes   00:03:03.349    
2               0:06:17.960     0:01:35.637     20,195 kbps     38,132 kbps     00:06:25.843    35,304 kbps     00:06:25.134    32,842 kbps     00:06:19.754    105,289 bytes   534,519 bytes   00:06:18.878    
3               0:07:53.598     0:04:11.292     28,075 kbps     40,843 kbps     00:09:57.805    35,370 kbps     00:09:57.888    34,422 kbps     00:09:53.801    146,373 bytes   671,348 bytes   00:10:11.819    
4               0:12:04.890     0:01:55.573     27,795 kbps     40,434 kbps     00:12:12.314    38,732 kbps     00:12:10.813    36,865 kbps     00:12:10.813    144,911 bytes   695,359 bytes   00:12:19.822    
5               0:14:00.464     0:06:00.109     29,594 kbps     57,476 kbps     00:17:49.401    37,636 kbps     00:18:25.521    36,593 kbps     00:18:23.143    154,289 bytes   706,960 bytes   00:18:36.490    
6               0:20:00.574     0:03:59.656     25,350 kbps     53,701 kbps     00:23:43.672    39,496 kbps     00:21:43.093    35,570 kbps     00:23:49.970    132,163 bytes   721,300 bytes   00:22:53.497    
7               0:24:00.230     0:02:53.047     30,786 kbps     47,860 kbps     00:25:26.525    39,308 kbps     00:24:42.147    36,819 kbps     00:25:26.525    160,502 bytes   630,823 bytes   00:25:26.566    
8               0:26:53.278     0:04:48.621     34,718 kbps     48,482 kbps     00:29:08.037    39,593 kbps     00:30:52.809    36,912 kbps     00:29:44.491    181,003 bytes   668,946 bytes   00:29:18.089    
9               0:31:41.899     0:01:51.528     27,093 kbps     42,230 kbps     00:33:16.369    35,091 kbps     00:33:20.623    33,183 kbps     00:33:13.449    141,251 bytes   595,801 bytes   00:33:33.428    
10              0:33:33.428     0:02:10.421     34,574 kbps     51,458 kbps     00:34:35.406    40,051 kbps     00:34:20.933    37,525 kbps     00:34:20.933    180,251 bytes   652,230 bytes   00:33:44.188    
11              0:35:43.849     0:07:48.009     30,928 kbps     44,988 kbps     00:37:04.096    37,050 kbps     00:37:01.302    36,394 kbps     00:35:44.225    161,245 bytes   508,688 bytes   00:42:10.236    
12              0:43:31.859     0:05:51.768     27,330 kbps     46,002 kbps     00:48:33.827    33,655 kbps     00:44:12.191    32,681 kbps     00:44:14.193    142,488 bytes   651,186 bytes   00:48:34.161    
13              0:49:23.627     0:05:06.347     25,757 kbps     38,982 kbps     00:50:13.885    36,724 kbps     00:49:46.149    33,886 kbps     00:49:44.356    134,283 bytes   699,276 bytes   00:50:14.594    
14              0:54:29.974     0:05:26.075     30,783 kbps     45,354 kbps     00:58:18.077    39,627 kbps     00:58:16.409    37,225 kbps     00:57:50.967    160,487 bytes   602,254 bytes   00:57:34.117    
15              0:59:56.050     0:05:14.147     26,021 kbps     39,498 kbps     01:01:07.705    34,825 kbps     01:01:12.502    32,720 kbps     01:03:37.730    135,659 bytes   641,816 bytes   01:03:40.775    
16              1:05:10.197     0:06:26.219     29,427 kbps     44,874 kbps     01:09:10.354    36,207 kbps     01:09:10.354    33,407 kbps     01:09:28.539    153,418 bytes   581,218 bytes   01:09:11.313    
17              1:11:36.417     0:03:34.589     28,264 kbps     37,210 kbps     01:11:48.220    32,959 kbps     01:13:53.512    32,284 kbps     01:13:53.137    147,353 bytes   525,480 bytes   01:13:24.817    
18              1:15:11.006     0:05:18.109     24,994 kbps     42,566 kbps     01:20:08.345    35,856 kbps     01:15:13.884    34,084 kbps     01:15:11.006    130,305 bytes   577,196 bytes   01:17:46.036    
19              1:20:29.115     0:04:12.794     25,494 kbps     42,277 kbps     01:21:11.074    34,391 kbps     01:21:10.365    32,395 kbps     01:21:10.365    132,916 bytes   635,357 bytes   01:21:25.130    
20              1:24:41.910     0:11:22.890     29,426 kbps     52,049 kbps     01:25:43.429    39,679 kbps     01:34:51.435    36,902 kbps     01:25:34.879    153,415 bytes   714,463 bytes   01:34:23.991    
21              1:36:04.800     0:01:50.985     28,519 kbps     32,396 kbps     01:37:29.635    30,892 kbps     01:36:10.055    30,416 kbps     01:37:19.083    148,683 bytes   448,256 bytes   01:37:55.786    
22              1:37:55.786     0:06:37.313     34,535 kbps     49,159 kbps     01:42:44.825    39,694 kbps     01:38:52.635    37,068 kbps     01:43:33.832    180,052 bytes   796,791 bytes   01:39:19.745    
23              1:44:33.099     0:03:42.388     32,504 kbps     46,895 kbps     01:47:48.503    39,796 kbps     01:47:18.140    37,249 kbps     01:45:32.534    169,460 bytes   677,404 bytes   01:47:48.712    
24              1:48:15.488     0:05:38.379     24,212 kbps     44,645 kbps     01:48:16.490    35,113 kbps     01:49:23.890    34,047 kbps     01:49:21.137    126,233 bytes   596,806 bytes   01:48:23.163    
25              1:53:53.868     0:01:39.015     31,523 kbps     45,941 kbps     01:54:47.755    39,360 kbps     01:54:08.591    36,749 kbps     01:55:04.772    164,349 bytes   510,631 bytes   01:54:08.675    
26              1:55:32.884     0:03:05.935     26,052 kbps     43,663 kbps     01:55:37.013    36,171 kbps     01:56:51.295    34,161 kbps     01:57:47.560    135,822 bytes   656,677 bytes   01:57:47.602    
27              1:58:38.819     0:03:26.748     27,347 kbps     45,948 kbps     02:00:14.040    39,436 kbps     02:00:10.453    36,962 kbps     01:59:04.929    142,574 bytes   702,398 bytes   01:59:14.939    
28              2:02:05.568     0:03:28.291     27,515 kbps     44,863 kbps     02:05:01.660    39,811 kbps     02:04:59.533    36,190 kbps     02:04:55.029    143,452 bytes   642,632 bytes   02:04:45.936    
29              2:05:33.859     0:04:27.976     27,392 kbps     42,036 kbps     02:08:10.891    37,613 kbps     02:07:53.415    36,006 kbps     02:07:08.370    142,809 bytes   685,054 bytes   02:05:37.029    
30              2:10:01.835     0:06:05.448     34,597 kbps     49,267 kbps     02:15:35.001    39,815 kbps     02:14:02.826    37,125 kbps     02:14:46.787    180,371 bytes   802,220 bytes   02:10:48.048    
31              2:16:07.283     0:03:43.556     34,699 kbps     48,203 kbps     02:17:56.851    39,465 kbps     02:17:54.933    37,036 kbps     02:17:19.397    180,904 bytes   703,033 bytes   02:19:35.075    
32              2:19:50.840     0:05:59.484     34,844 kbps     50,246 kbps     02:25:22.588    39,436 kbps     02:25:01.651    37,365 kbps     02:20:59.284    181,662 bytes   708,324 bytes   02:22:38.299    
33              2:25:50.324     0:05:23.740     31,652 kbps     46,702 kbps     02:30:35.693    38,294 kbps     02:26:55.640    37,036 kbps     02:27:09.320    165,017 bytes   670,742 bytes   02:27:08.569    
34              2:31:14.064     0:03:51.230     26,226 kbps     38,859 kbps     02:31:39.965    35,423 kbps     02:34:09.240    34,205 kbps     02:34:05.945    136,728 bytes   540,109 bytes   02:34:23.504    
35              2:35:05.295     0:06:35.395     14,797 kbps     41,284 kbps     02:35:48.172    35,213 kbps     02:35:13.679    33,779 kbps     02:35:13.595    77,145 bytes    772,426 bytes   02:35:58.182    
36              2:41:40.690     0:00:01.001     78 kbps         0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 kbps          00:00:00.000    0 kbps          00:00:00.000    425 bytes       534 bytes       02:41:41.650    

STREAM DIAGNOSTICS:

File            PID             Type            Codec           Language                Seconds                 Bitrate                 Bytes           Packets         
----            ---             ----            -----           --------                --------------          --------------          -------------   -----           
00002.M2TS      4113 (0x1011)   0x1B            AVC                                     9701.567                28,817                  34,946,248,728  190,060,476     
00002.M2TS      4352 (0x1100)   0x86            DTS-HD MA       eng (English)           9701.567                4,146                   5,027,442,684   28,836,317      
00002.M2TS      4353 (0x1101)   0x81            AC3             eng (English)           9701.567                224                     271,648,384     1,515,895       
00002.M2TS      4354 (0x1102)   0x81            AC3             eng (English)           9701.567                448                     543,296,768     3,031,790       
00002.M2TS      4355 (0x1103)   0x81            AC3             spa (Spanish)           9701.567                448                     543,296,768     3,031,790       
00002.M2TS      4356 (0x1104)   0x81            AC3             fra (French)            9701.567                448                     543,296,768     3,031,790       
00002.M2TS      4357 (0x1105)   0x81            AC3             por (Portuguese)        9701.567                448                     543,296,768     3,031,790       
00002.M2TS      4608 (0x1200)   0x90            PGS             eng (English)           9701.567                33                      40,067,718      231,791         
00002.M2TS      4609 (0x1201)   0x90            PGS             spa (Spanish)           9701.567                24                      28,886,798      166,599         
00002.M2TS      4610 (0x1202)   0x90            PGS             por (Portuguese)        9701.567                24                      29,081,707      167,613         
00002.M2TS      4611 (0x1203)   0x90            PGS             fra (French)            9701.567                2                       1,862,075       10,763
QUICK SUMMARY:

Disc Title: DANCING WITH POCAHONTAS
Disc Size: 46,353,881,213 bytes
Protection: BD+
BD-Java: Yes
Playlist: 00802.MPLS
Size: 44,897,476,608 bytes
Length: 2:41:41
Total Bitrate: 37.02 Mbps
Video: MPEG-4 AVC Video / 28817 kbps / 1080p / 23.976 fps / 16:9 / High Profile 4.1
Audio: English / DTS-HD Master Audio / 5.1 / 48 kHz / 4146 kbps / 24-bit (DTS Core: 5.1 / 48 kHz / 1509 kbps / 24-bit)
Audio: English / Dolby Digital Audio / 5.1 / 48 kHz / 448 kbps
Audio: French / Dolby Digital Audio / 5.1 / 48 kHz / 448 kbps
Audio: Portuguese / Dolby Digital Audio / 5.1 / 48 kHz / 448 kbps
Audio: Spanish / Dolby Digital Audio / 5.1 / 48 kHz / 448 kbps
Audio: English / Dolby Digital Audio / 2.0 / 48 kHz / 224 kbps / Dolby Surround
Subtitle: English / 33.040 kbps
Subtitle: French / 1.535 kbps
Subtitle: Portuguese / 23.981 kbps
Subtitle: Spanish / 23.820 kbps


So what's the dialnorm value on this one? I had to crank this to where I typically listen to -27 tracks but that was me guessing by ear. I'd like to know for sure.
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post #103 of 247 Old 04-25-2010, 11:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Tomlin View Post

Anyone else notice that the "jaggies" that are present on the Fox logo at the beginning on all other Fox titles were noticeably missing on Avatar?!

I agree, the new logo is quite nicely done (click for full):

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post #104 of 247 Old 04-25-2010, 11:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cinema Squid View Post

I agree, the new logo is quite nicely done (click for full):



It is not across the board consistent, but more often than not I have noticed the FBI logo at the beginning of Blu Rays...if it is generally clear and sharp with good PQ, so is the movie. Like they caught and transferred the logo with the same source as the movie. The logos can really show the jaggies/artifacting.
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post #105 of 247 Old 04-25-2010, 11:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hughmc View Post

It is not across the board consistent, but more often than not I have noticed the FBI logo at the beginning of Blu Rays...if it is generally clear and sharp with good PQ, so is the movie. Like they caught and transferred the logo with the same source as the movie. The logos can really show the jaggies/artifacting.

Maybe, although the FBI logo is usually a separate file from the main movie. I always figured that asset is just reused over and over again as is, although I've never bothered to actually compare them before. A possible subject for a future Xylon thread or would that be too sassy?
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post #106 of 247 Old 04-26-2010, 04:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RocShemp View Post

So what's the dialnorm value on this one? I had to crank this to where I typically listen to -27 tracks but that was me guessing by ear. I'd like to know for sure.

According to BDinfo none.
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post #107 of 247 Old 04-26-2010, 04:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xylon View Post

According to BDinfo none.

My receiver always gives a quick reading of the DN level (if added (Example: DialogNorm -4dB)) when the track starts and it didn't on Avatar.
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post #108 of 247 Old 04-26-2010, 04:44 AM
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Interesting looking grain structure considering it's CG, was it added to smooth the banding during 8 bit downsampling?
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post #109 of 247 Old 04-26-2010, 04:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AmishFury View Post

now you've done it xylon by finding a single frame with an alien nipple bored/crazy parents everywhere will demand the rating be changed for the sake of the children :P

i did a quick check (first and probably only time the DVD will ever be taken out of the case) it's actually 6.19Mbps average

Who is to say it is actually a nipple? I mean, all the animals in Avatar (except the Na'vi) have "nostrils" in their necks, so that piece of coloured skin could actually be something else. They never reveal the reproductive biology of the Na'vi, so anything is possible for the function of various body parts.

I think Cameron made a mistake by making the Na'vi too humanoid, when just about every other animal has nostrils in their neck and double fore-limbs: they look a bit out of place, biologically.

Some years ago when DVD first came out, it was stated that an average bitrate of 6Mbps was enough for most movies to appear visually transparent to the master, with careful compression. I'm not surprised Avatar on DVD looks good at 6.19Mbps average, unfortunately I don't think most titles leverage the best that DVD is capable of.
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post #110 of 247 Old 04-26-2010, 06:34 AM
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Thanks, guys.

So it's not that it has a -31 dialnorm value (0dB dialnorm offset) but rather it has no dialnorm value whatsoever?
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post #111 of 247 Old 04-26-2010, 07:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IanD View Post

Some years ago when DVD first came out, it was stated that an average bitrate of 6Mbps was enough for most movies to appear visually transparent to the master, with careful compression. I'm not surprised Avatar on DVD looks good at 6.19Mbps average, unfortunately I don't think most titles leverage the best that DVD is capable of.

DVD video part is actually 5Mbs, so per pixel bitrate of DVD and BD is about the same [5Mbs vs 29Mbs]. Given the efficiency of AVC codec [easily double of OPTIMIZED MPEG2, and more than triple of the DVD implementation of MPEG2, as it is pretty restricted on DVD], it is simply amazing that the DVD looks so good. [Compare it to The Dark Knight DVD, for example] Looks like Cameron knows a secret or two about coding that others don't

We cannot properly assess the quality of Avatar BD right now, as the quality will become apparent only when upconverting players and 4K TVs will appear. The same happened with DVDs, when we started watching them on HiDef, then the differences between excellent mastering and less excellent one became clear.

A2, A35, 150, 62fd, s790, s6500, x800, 83, 103D, HTPC w/ HD-DVD/BD
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post #112 of 247 Old 04-26-2010, 07:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cinema Squid View Post

I agree, the new logo is quite nicely done (click for full):


Cool, thanks for posting that!

I knew I was more than likely going to find the PQ on this title to be something special as soon as I saw how much better the Fox logo looked.
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post #113 of 247 Old 04-26-2010, 08:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IanD View Post

I think Cameron made a mistake by making the Na'vi too humanoid, when just about every other animal has nostrils in their neck and double fore-limbs: they look a bit out of place, biologically.

There is far too little evidence to draw any conclusions about Pandoran evolution. How does planetary sentience evolve? What influence does that have on other species' evolution? What connections are there between Pandora and it species and those of the other moons in the system?
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post #114 of 247 Old 04-26-2010, 08:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IanD View Post

Who is to say it is actually a nipple? I mean, all the animals in Avatar (except the Na'vi) have "nostrils" in their necks, so that piece of coloured skin could actually be something else. They never reveal the reproductive biology of the Na'vi, so anything is possible for the function of various body parts.

I think Cameron made a mistake by making the Na'vi too humanoid, when just about every other animal has nostrils in their neck and double fore-limbs: they look a bit out of place, biologically.

Some years ago when DVD first came out, it was stated that an average bitrate of 6Mbps was enough for most movies to appear visually transparent to the master, with careful compression. I'm not surprised Avatar on DVD looks good at 6.19Mbps average, unfortunately I don't think most titles leverage the best that DVD is capable of.

I agree. He could have made the body-plan more "alien" and kept the enormous, universally appealing eyes, but his decision may also have been dictated by the way he used motion-capture. In any event, Blomkamp managed to make us feel empathy for the prawn........ then again, that character design included enormous eyes as well.
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post #115 of 247 Old 04-26-2010, 01:04 PM
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As promised, I ran through a few key scenes today watching my ratshack SPL meter... with the understanding that the SPL meter is not too accurate at that low a frequency, measuring a few db low in general. However, with everyone using the same ratshack meter the results should at least be consistent between us.

SPOILER WARNING FOR ANYONE READING THIS THREAD THAT HAS NOT SEEN THE MOVIE YET!

All measurements taken with the processor (MC12-HD) set to exactly 0.


In general, the output was pretty consistent, measuring between 98-104db depending on the scene.

1. Scene during attempted Grace transfer to Avatar body - drums beating
Every beat hit exacly 99-101db on the dot. Shakes and resonates the
entire room with every beat

2. Taking off from base to attack the tree-
Large craft lifts off at 107-108db

2. Hometree destruction -
Second volley of missiles that destroyed it - 104-106db on impact, same
during the tree collapsing, long and extended at that frequency.

3. Flying in for attack before main action sequence -
Every beat of the wings hits 100-101db and shakes the floor as they
are flying and looking at each other

4. Power Armor/Suits jumping into jungle - as each lands on the ground
102-104db thumps that shake the floor every time they land

5. Space shuttle carrying payload destruction
explodes on the ground - 105db

6. Blast as Quaritch jumps out of the ship and then ship explodes on ground
behind him - 107-108db sustained and shakes the room


As a note - the sub could certainly go considerably louder if turned up, but that would be out of balance with the rest of the mix and output. Also of note could be the difference in the room. It's an acoustical room, decoupled from the floor, about 18ft X 25ft and a tall, sloped ceiling. It pressurizes and shakes the room very easily. If anything, the sub is turned down compared to a more traditional room, which would possibly require 110-115db output to achieve the same result (which the SVS can certainly achieve).

Compared to another film for reference - One of my favorites for solid LFE, Live Free or Die Hard. That final sequence, from the jet flyby to collapsing bridges, all registers 105-107db, long and sustained all the way through during various sequences. It's right in the same ballpark as what I measured for Avatar.
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post #116 of 247 Old 04-26-2010, 07:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cybersoga View Post

Interesting looking grain structure considering it's CG, was it added to smooth the banding during 8 bit downsampling?

While certainly you add dither to hide banding, I've heard some people say that the digital noise you see in the CGI footage like in the Pandoran jungle is how they matched the CGI to the live action footage shot on HDC-F950. Otherwise, comparing the two would give you one excessively clean image and one kind of gritty one.
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post #117 of 247 Old 04-27-2010, 01:21 AM
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Disc title: DANCING WITH POCAHONTAS? Somebody at Fox has an awesome sense of humor!
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post #118 of 247 Old 04-27-2010, 02:18 AM
 
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I'm finally able to do screencaps of Avatar now that Any DVD HD is updated for the UK. I'm looking more closely at Avatar and i now feel if you put it under the microscope you can find some artifacts and its not perfect, going to have to check some scenes again later on the 104inch screen as last time i watched i was too engrossed in the movie to notice issues.

Scene transitions when you get fade outs from black and in again, i feel some of them are not as perfect as expected, the opening scenes of the spacecraft coming in to Pandora and the starfield, look closely at the starfield, on the computer i noticed artifacts all over it.

Now its still an excellent transfer and its probable the uncalibrated computer display is the reason i see this but i'll be checking again on the big screen just to make sure.

Another thing worth pointing out is that a lot of people will be viewing on displays with the brightness too high so if i can see artifacts during the opeing starfield sequence then so will others on uncalibrated displays.

Just nitpicking though, although i personally think The Hurt Locker and several other titles have better transfer quality, not talking image quality here, just transfer quality. Of course they are totally different types of movie and used different camera systems but still a transfer is a transfer and you strive to have no artifacts whether the display is calibrated or not.

I never provide disc information and bitrates at my site as i feel too many people associate bitrate with image quality and sometimes its all in how the compressionist handles the disc and not the actual bitrate, true a high bitrate should see less problems but thats not always the case.

Anyways i have just started examining Avatar under the microscope so to speak and the above is what i noticed, it probably won't be noticeable under calibrated display conditions but if it is i'll be quick to post later.

Still an excellent transfer but i think people are seeing 3D "pop" and saying its perfect and from my first closer inspection i would say it isn't and yah i know people do not watch movies under a microscope, its still worth looking at closely though.
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post #119 of 247 Old 04-27-2010, 02:30 AM
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Looked stunning on my tiny 40" LCD though there are minor artifacts here and there probably due to the heavy duty CGI.

My biggest gripe with the BD besides the no-show of extras is, FOX screwed up the English Subtitles as translation is missing for many dialogues.

Blu-ray : 340
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post #120 of 247 Old 04-27-2010, 02:35 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lgans316 View Post

Looked stunning on my tiny 40" LCD though there are minor artifacts here and there probably due to the heavy duty CGI.

My biggest gripe with the BD besides the no-show of extras is, FOX screwed up the English Subtitles as translation is missing for many dialogues.

Looks stunning at 104 inches too, i'm just nitpicking above but as you say some minor artifacts are on the transfer, i just didn't expect so many on the opening starfield because when you increase brightness on your display you can see its riddled with artifacts, you have to take your eyes off the spacecraft though and view the star background, its a quick scene and just as well. I just need to check it on the calibrated big screen before i get worked up about it.

Now 2012, thats a transfer with a lot of artifacts noticeable on a calibrated display, Avatar is much better than that one as far as transfers go.
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