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post #31 of 73 Old 09-12-2017, 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by little-endian View Post
Besides that, this may be additionally relativized by the fact that the only CDS-based mixes seem to be available in the shape of plain old AC3 at rather low bitrate of 384 kBit/s on the first DVD and the AC3 LD.
CDS was a delivery format, not a mixing format. Like the Dolby Digital and DTS that supplanted it, CDS was a highly-compressed codec that squeezed a 5.1 sound mix onto a theatrical release print. The actual 5.1 mix itself originated in PCM format on the studio master before compression. Unlike SDDS, which had a proprietary channel layout (5 channels across the front, plus 2 surrounds), CDS stored the same standard 5.1 configuration we still use on most media today.

The page you link to is filled with people whining about the movie receiving a near-field mix for home theater, as if that weren't standard practice with almost every movie made in the last 30 years, even if most of them don't advertise it. They also complain that a near-field mix is somehow a bad thing, which is ludicrous. No matter how fancy or expensive your home theater may be, it's neither the size nor shape of a theatrical auditorium, nor is it filled with hundreds of other people sitting around you. Home theater has completely different acoustics than a theatrical venue.

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So whatever super-duper lossless Dolby Atmos / DTS-X / 20.2 format any future 4K, 8K and whatever K release will feature, it for sure will be further and further away from what was shown in the cinemas back then.
The sound we heard in theaters in 1991 sucked. CDS was a highly compressed audio delivery format. There is zero reason to have nostalgia for CDS, any more than you should have nostalgia for low bit-rate Dolby Digital. Pining for that has nothing to do with the original sound mix itself.

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post #32 of 73 Old 09-12-2017, 10:02 PM
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Thanks for your input, Josh Z.

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CDS was a delivery format, not a mixing format.
This is correct, which is why I never claimed anything different. What I wrote was CDS-based mix, referring to a mix which is claimed to have been derived from what was presented in conjunction with the the CDS format which itself is neither important nor my point.

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Like the Dolby Digital and DTS that supplanted it, CDS was a highly-compressed codec that squeezed a 5.1 sound mix onto a theatrical release print.
According to the technical details, its delta prediction and bitrate used hardly fits the assumption that this format would be "highly compressed", an attribute with might suit codecs like MP3, AAC or Vobis way better (depsite delivering even higher quality per a given bitrate). The technical correct term would be data reduction by the way since compression alone is lossless by definition.

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The page you link to is filled with people whining about the movie receiving a near-field mix for home theater, as if that weren't standard practice with almost every movie made in the last 30 years, even if most of them don't advertise it.
I would say that the attempt of trying to preserve an original mix - for the better or worse - deserves a bit more respect than only ticking it off as "whining" about its absence on many releases. Besides that, no matter what opinion one personally has about using mixes which had been originally designed to be presented in a cinema at home, there is simply no good reason for not including them as an alternative audio option. Space for sure won't be the issue, but retardedness and ignorance.

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They also complain that a near-field mix is somehow a bad thing, which is ludicrous. No matter how fancy or expensive your home theater may be, it's neither the size nor shape of a theatrical auditorium, nor is it filled with hundreds of other people sitting around you. Home theater has completely different acoustics than a theatrical venue.
That might be all true, but is essentially missing the point as your statement assumes that some adjustment for the home experience would be the only changes which are made in practise. The sad reality is different - entire sounds are getting replaced (The Terminator), sound effects are bumped up with "roary" sounding explosions (Léon The Professional), sound effects put on competely different channels (Jurassic Park), etc. - the list of doubtful changes probably is as long as it is for regrading the video part.

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The sound we heard in theaters in 1991 sucked.
Undifferentiated statements like these may be popular these days but that doesn't make them any better. What exactly leads to your elaborate conclusion the it "sucked"? Its predisposition for dropouts? Data reduction artefacts you might remember from 1991, any lack of dynamic range? A few more details would be nice.

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CDS was a highly compressed audio delivery format.
You're repeating yourself so do I. The specs don't look anything like it:

http://home.earthlink.net/~stevekraus/cds.html


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There is zero reason to have nostalgia for CDS, any more than you should have nostalgia for low bit-rate Dolby Digital.
You seem to confuse the messenger with the message. I have no nostalgia for the format, but very well for some theatrical, unaltered mix.

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Pining for that has nothing to do with the original sound mix itself.
Which is why it was never about the format from my side. The CDS is supposed to be related to the original mix, nothing more, nothing less. Could have been MP1 or MP2 as well, doesn't matter.
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post #33 of 73 Old 09-13-2017, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by little-endian View Post
I would say that the attempt of trying to preserve an original mix - for the better or worse - deserves a bit more respect than only ticking it off as "whining" about its absence on many releases. Besides that, no matter what opinion one personally has about using mixes which had been originally designed to be presented in a cinema at home, there is simply no good reason for not including them as an alternative audio option. Space for sure won't be the issue, but retardedness and ignorance.
Near-field home theater mixes are standard practice for almost every single movie made today and have been for many years. There is no point to including a mix intended for a theatrical auditorium's acoustics on a DVD or Blu-ray. That would sound pretty bad in the home environment, and would only serve to cause confusion among viewers.

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That might be all true, but is essentially missing the point as your statement assumes that some adjustment for the home experience would be the only changes which are made in practise. The sad reality is different - entire sounds are getting replaced (The Terminator), sound effects are bumped up with "roary" sounding explosions (Léon The Professional), sound effects put on competely different channels (Jurassic Park), etc. - the list of doubtful changes probably is as long as it is for regrading the video part.
These examples you cite are a separate matter beyond a standard near-field mix. I agree that some of them, especially the first Terminator, are pretty awful. As far as I'm aware, no sound effects were replaced in Terminator 2.

The new 3D conversion of Terminator 2 was remixed for DTS:X, which does entail moving the sounds to different channels and locations. In that case, sure, I can sympathize with also wanting the Blu-ray to include the original 5.1 mix as well. That's reasonable.

However, the page you linked to earlier is filled with self-proclaimed "purists" complaining about the older Blu-ray editions with 5.1 audio. Their complaints are based on nothing other than having seen a notation in the liner notes that the soundtrack had a near-field mix and their misguided assumption that it must automatically be a bad thing because it's not "original."

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post #34 of 73 Old 09-14-2017, 12:32 PM
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Near-field home theater mixes are standard practice for almost every single movie made today and have been for many years.
FYI, Mid-field monitoring is usually preferred for surround mixing.

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post #35 of 73 Old 10-10-2017, 07:54 PM
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Extended version or theatrical, I don't care. This is my favorite movie of all time and I can't wait for the release. I just wish it would hurry up and get here.
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post #36 of 73 Old 10-12-2017, 04:35 PM
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The T2 restoration release has been Terminated, without explanation. Lionsgate plans to release it "in the future".
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post #37 of 73 Old 10-12-2017, 06:13 PM
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Link
http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/sh...finitely/40085

Well maybe they realized that the color needs work.
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post #38 of 73 Old 10-13-2017, 11:23 AM
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http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/sh...finitely/40085

Well maybe they realized that the color needs work.
I'm sure James Cameron saw the theatrical release and demanded, "More teal! I ASKED FOR MORE TEAL, DAMMIT!!"

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post #39 of 73 Old 10-13-2017, 09:13 PM
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I think what happened was the announcement of the release date of the next T-Film killed it. It's the only thing that makes sense given the proximity of the release date of T2 UHD-BD and the latest news regarding the next film in the series. Unfortunately, this means Lionsgate is going to take a hit due to the cost of those collector's sets and all the replicated discs that were ready to ship to stores. Review copies had already been sent out for it, so someone somewhere has seen the final product.
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post #40 of 73 Old 10-14-2017, 07:08 AM
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I mean, it could also be that they had a scene/edit error like Wrath of Khan.
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post #41 of 73 Old 10-16-2017, 09:51 AM
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I think what happened was the announcement of the release date of the next T-Film killed it. It's the only thing that makes sense given the proximity of the release date of T2 UHD-BD and the latest news regarding the next film in the series.
The T2 remaster played in theaters this summer. They're not going to delay the home video release potentially years to correspond with another sequel that hasn't even gone into production yet. The much more likely explanation is that Lionsgate is telling the truth when they say there's an issue with the master.

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post #42 of 73 Old 10-16-2017, 06:03 PM
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Didn't realize it's been canceled. Last I heard was an email I received from Amazon saying it's been delayed. Damn. Guess I won't be getting my Endoarm now.

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post #43 of 73 Old 10-17-2017, 09:27 AM
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Amazon sent me an email with a new arrival date of December 31, 2018. LOL

I haven't see evidence that it is cancelled, just delayed. Hopefully for the better!
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post #44 of 73 Old 10-17-2017, 11:35 AM
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Didn't realize it's been canceled. Last I heard was an email I received from Amazon saying it's been delayed. Damn. Guess I won't be getting my Endoarm now.
The official word from Lionsgate is that the disc has been delayed but they still intend to release it. They do not have a new street date yet, though.

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post #45 of 73 Old 10-17-2017, 01:50 PM
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So a defect in the master requires them to go back and correct it but with the signed approval of Cameron and he's busy?
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post #46 of 73 Old 10-18-2017, 05:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Maybe they read my post and are going to include the extended edition
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I'll stop ripping my BDs when I can put them in and watch the movie without trailers, warnings, cutesy menus...
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Maybe they read my post and are going to include the extended edition
I'd love that!

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post #48 of 73 Old 10-18-2017, 06:57 AM
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More than likely, Cameron is going to digitally insert the Navi into select scenes in order to retcon the Terminator franchise into a "Cameron Cinematic Universe". In 2165, Skynet has learned of the existence of Unobtainium and has launched a full-scale invasion of Pandora, so the Navi used time travel to come back to save John Connor from the Terminators in order to keep Skynet from one day invading Pandora. However, John Connor learns that Unobtainium would have saved his great, great uncle Jack from drowning on the Titanic if only the hull were stronger, so he plans to double-cross the Navi. But first, they must travel down to the Deep Core in order to evaluate the damage to the Titanic. Little do they realize that the Navi and the underwater NTI have been enemies for millions of years. Can they work together to stop Skynet? Will John Connor ever forgive Rose?

SUMMER 2020
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post #49 of 73 Old 10-18-2017, 11:22 AM
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More than likely, Cameron is going to digitally insert the Navi into select scenes in order to retcon the Terminator franchise into a "Cameron Cinematic Universe". In 2165, Skynet has learned of the existence of Unobtainium and has launched a full-scale invasion of Pandora, so the Navi used time travel to come back to save John Connor from the Terminators in order to keep Skynet from one day invading Pandora. However, John Connor learns that Unobtainium would have saved his great, great uncle Jack from drowning on the Titanic if only the hull were stronger, so he plans to double-cross the Navi. But first, they must travel down to the Deep Core in order to evaluate the damage to the Titanic. Little do they realize that the Navi and the underwater NTI have been enemies for millions of years. Can they work together to stop Skynet? Will John Connor ever forgive Rose?

SUMMER 2020
Don't forget all the piranha spawning in the waters around the Titanic.
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post #50 of 73 Old 10-18-2017, 02:10 PM
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Lol. You guys are cracking me up.

Just checked my Amazon order page and its saying my Endoarm will be delivered on Oct. 31st. It doesn't list the year tho.🤔

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post #51 of 73 Old 10-18-2017, 06:44 PM - Thread Starter
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You forgot the Omega Sector.
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I'll stop ripping my BDs when I can put them in and watch the movie without trailers, warnings, cutesy menus...
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post #52 of 73 Old 10-18-2017, 08:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanddrews View Post
More than likely, Cameron is going to digitally insert the Navi into select scenes in order to retcon the Terminator franchise into a "Cameron Cinematic Universe". In 2165, Skynet has learned of the existence of Unobtainium and has launched a full-scale invasion of Pandora, so the Navi used time travel to come back to save John Connor from the Terminators in order to keep Skynet from one day invading Pandora. However, John Connor learns that Unobtainium would have saved his great, great uncle Jack from drowning on the Titanic if only the hull were stronger, so he plans to double-cross the Navi. But first, they must travel down to the Deep Core in order to evaluate the damage to the Titanic. Little do they realize that the Navi and the underwater NTI have been enemies for millions of years. Can they work together to stop Skynet? Will John Connor ever forgive Rose?

SUMMER 2020
And Hudson could be Brock Lovett's great-great-great grandson!
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post #53 of 73 Old 10-19-2017, 07:25 AM
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Don't forget all the piranha spawning in the waters around the Titanic.
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You forgot the Omega Sector.
I didn't forget, I'm saving those gems for the 4-film reboot trilogy starting in 2024.
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post #54 of 73 Old 10-19-2017, 09:07 AM
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Titanic 2: Sharknado returns!
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post #55 of 73 Old 10-28-2017, 06:44 PM
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Somewhere in the multi-verse, James Cameron is responsible for creating the Sharknado film series - all shot in 3D - and each film has grossed over $2 billion at the box office.
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post #56 of 73 Old 10-30-2017, 07:58 PM
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Just reading here it looks like November 23rd now.

http://www.dvd-forum.at/news-details...-november-2017
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post #57 of 73 Old 11-28-2017, 12:12 PM
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Just got an email from Amazon saying my order has been cancelled due to lack of availability. I was already annoyed about the lack of a 3D release, now to be outright cancelled? I'm not happy.
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post #58 of 73 Old 11-28-2017, 01:04 PM
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I got the cancellation email too. Seems like this was doomed from the beginning. Maybe the resistance can send someone back in time and fix it.

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post #59 of 73 Old 11-28-2017, 07:54 PM
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Just got an email from Amazon saying my order has been cancelled due to lack of availability. I was already annoyed about the lack of a 3D release, now to be outright cancelled? I'm not happy.
I just received the e-mail from Amazon this evening saying my Endo arm order has been cancelled. Not happy either.
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post #60 of 73 Old 12-01-2017, 12:29 PM
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I received an email from Zavvi today stating the the 3D Blu-ray SteelBook has shipped.

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