Will 4k UHD Blu-ray discs be the last consumer physical media format for movies? - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 159 Old 02-17-2019, 04:40 PM
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Interesting discussion

https://entertainment.slashdot.org/s...rs-report-says

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Re:2018 was a sad year for all 4k lovers (Score:4, Interesting)
by jaa101 ( 627731 ) on Friday February 15, 2019 @07:40PM (#58129380)
From reality. The scanners are not the limiting factor, it's rather the film itself. Take "Bad Times as the El Royale" as an example - it was shot on Kodak film of which you can read the specs at https://www.kodak.com/uploaded... [kodak.com]

Look at the logarithmic scale of the spatial resolution diagram - the contrast of the higher spatial frequencies drops very quickly, while granularity quickly increases under all but the most ideal lighting conditions. In reality, the resolution you will get from such a film, even when using good scanners and 4k digital intermediates, is nowhere near the resolution of a decent digital camera (like let's say an Arri Alexa 65).

To explain a little further, he's talking about the "Modulation Transfer Curves" graph, which essentially shows how well the film records fine detail. It's 100% at 10 cycles per mm but below 50% (and falling steeply) by the time you go up to 80 cycles per mm. Now there are, crudely, 2 pixels per cycle and the 35mm film frame is 25mm wide, so that's 4000 pixels across. Remember, that's the film coming out of the camera; the quality of prints will be worse. Another factor is that camera lenses will struggle to match the resolution of this film.
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Re:35mm (Score:4, Informative)
by pezezin ( 1200013 ) on Saturday February 16, 2019 @01:53AM (#58130228)
For a full frame 35mm film (36x24mm) to resolve 90 megapixels, it should have a resolution of 160 lines/mm. Such film exists (Fuji Velvia 50, for example), but only under ideal lighting conditions and high contrast images. Cinema used a film format half as big (24x18 mm), so the resolution would have to be 230 lines/mm. Without getting into a very long winded debate, getting 90 megapixels out of 35 mm film is pure fantasy. From IMAX, sure, but from 35mm, no.
https://www.kodak.com/uploadedFiles/...-180829-SP.pdf



So, for most 35mm films, perhaps current 4K UHD BD discs may be the end game.

...mayhaps 8K discs for 70mm films?
(and video shot with 8K+ digital cameras of course)
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post #62 of 159 Old 02-17-2019, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Lozin View Post
I’d like to see the 4K & BD releases all combined. If a title gets a 4K release then the Blu-Ray should come with it and eliminate the extra separate Blu-Ray release. The studios would save a ton on separate packaging and shelf space in stores.


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I don't know of any 4K UHD disc without a 1080p BD included.
(always an exception)

So what you are asking is to eliminate 1080p BD packaged releases.

Only issue for some families would be that most 1080p BluRay releases include a DVD, while 4K releases usually do not.

With included UV/stream codes, not a huge deal assuming all allow a local phone/tablet download for mobile/car use.
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post #63 of 159 Old 02-17-2019, 05:15 PM
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That’s exactly it. Combine it all into one.


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post #64 of 159 Old 02-17-2019, 05:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lozin View Post
That’s exactly it. Combine it all into one.


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I think the studios wanna keep UHD discs at a premium price, for us high falutin' upper classes
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post #65 of 159 Old 02-18-2019, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Wolf View Post
It probably will be the last physical format. Mostly because physical sales are sliding in digital downloads and streaming. And you know the movie industry loves the pseudo ownership status of online digital stores, while the public loves not having shelves and shelves of discs and being able to just pick their movie off the list on the tv.

The few people who want physical ownership are really an anomaly - after all, why do you want to search through boxes and boxes for a movie when you can just sit down and choose it off the menu?

"Netflix and chill" really means lounging on the sofa watching movies, not trying to find something to watch off the myriad of shelves in the video library.
It's not really about searching thru movies for me... it's more about uncompressed quality. I've got over 600 titles on 1080p/UHD disc... and have a digital copy of all of them as well. I'll either redeem the code myself or if it's an older blu ray without a code I just rip the disc with MakeMKV and then encode an MP4 with Handbrake. I then use another app to add the metadata and *BOOM* I've got a digital file for my own personal use that looks and sounds exactly like one that I would buy off iTunes... even right down to the file icon! Current digital storage for all these films on my HDD is pushing 5TB.

The convenience of digital is good... I can pull movies right off my PC via iTunes and send them to any portable device connected to my WiFi... or copy them straight to the device for road trips. For watching in the HT on my calibrated OLED... it's disc only. That won't be changing. People who say there is no difference in quality between disc and digital are misinformed.

4K UHD discs my very well be the last digital format and that's fine. I made my physical media investment all in the last year since buying my OLED and don't plan on investing in any future formats anyway. I'm not worried about physical media going any anytime soon either... they are still selling DVDs for crying out loud and physical media sales were something like $4B last year. The studios will be milking this cash cow for many years.

Maybe it's just me but I don't see that much of a difference in the time it takes to look thru 600 movies on a shelf or scroll thru 600 movies on a screen... it definitely has no bearing in my decision to buy physical media. In the end it's about quality... and I'll take the disc every time for the ultimate viewing experience in my OLED/Atmos HT. The digital copies are for portability or for streaming on the iPad while laying in bed... nothing more. There's also the fact that when the digital services shut down like UV is this summer I've got all my movies on a shelf and not on someone else's hardware that I have no control over. That alone makes it worth buying the disc... I get BOTH physical and digital for either the same price or a few dollars more. Definitely doesn't make a difference in my budget either way.


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post #66 of 159 Old 02-18-2019, 09:26 AM
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I don't know if there's a point to anything beyond UHD Blu-Ray disks. How much further improvement is there to go in further reducing compression artifacts, or color space (and they do support 4k60, right?)

8k video seems like only the realm of standing directly in front of a screen in a show room, to me.


Though I'm personally at a point where I barely buy media any more. Most of my recent media purchases have been on Amazon streaming.

The video quality leaves much to be desired (especially when it switches to low-bandwidth mode, and I've got gigabit internet, so I know that the problem isn't on my end) but it plays on everything (and more importantly, *everywhere* so long as I have an internet connection) and doesn't take up space.


I also don't really watch (most) movies more than once, so rentals are appealing. With the death of the video store, that means either new releases from Redbox (which look better, but include the hassle of having to return them), or anything else from a streaming service.
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post #67 of 159 Old 02-18-2019, 10:35 AM
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i only started this hobby recently and have a much more appreciation for sounds. i have more problem with sounds from digital streaming coming in only at 5.1 in most cases. I buy uhd for the atmos.
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post #68 of 159 Old 02-18-2019, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsilver View Post
I don't know if there's a point to anything beyond UHD Blu-Ray disks. How much further improvement is there to go in further reducing compression artifacts, or color space (and they do support 4k60, right?)

8k video seems like only the realm of standing directly in front of a screen in a show room, to me.
Back in 2016 when I was doing some product testing for Panasonic and we were at IFA in Berlin, their engineers were talking about 8K. I got the impression from them that 8K would first be used in commercial venues such as cinemas/movie theatres using laser projectors. And might make it into peoples homes several years later...

But things change quickly
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post #69 of 159 Old 02-18-2019, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by TravisPNW View Post
It's not really about searching thru movies for me... it's more about uncompressed quality. I've got over 600 titles on 1080p/UHD disc... and have a digital copy of all of them as well. I'll either redeem the code myself or if it's an older blu ray without a code I just rip the disc with MakeMKV and then encode an MP4 with Handbrake. I then use another app to add the metadata and *BOOM* I've got a digital file for my own personal use that looks and sounds exactly like one that I would buy off iTunes... even right down to the file icon! Current digital storage for all these films on my HDD is pushing 5TB.

The convenience of digital is good... I can pull movies right off my PC via iTunes and send them to any portable device connected to my WiFi... or copy them straight to the device for road trips. For watching in the HT on my calibrated OLED... it's disc only. That won't be changing. People who say there is no difference in quality between disc and digital are misinformed.

4K UHD discs my very well be the last digital format and that's fine. I made my physical media investment all in the last year since buying my OLED and don't plan on investing in any future formats anyway. I'm not worried about physical media going any anytime soon either... they are still selling DVDs for crying out loud and physical media sales were something like $4B last year. The studios will be milking this cash cow for many years.

Maybe it's just me but I don't see that much of a difference in the time it takes to look thru 600 movies on a shelf or scroll thru 600 movies on a screen... it definitely has no bearing in my decision to buy physical media. In the end it's about quality... and I'll take the disc every time for the ultimate viewing experience in my OLED/Atmos HT. The digital copies are for portability or for streaming on the iPad while laying in bed... nothing more. There's also the fact that when the digital services shut down like UV is this summer I've got all my movies on a shelf and not on someone else's hardware that I have no control over. That alone makes it worth buying the disc... I get BOTH physical and digital for either the same price or a few dollars more. Definitely doesn't make a difference in my budget either way.


Cheers.


Having a hard time understanding you?
How could you possibly rip 600 uncompressed UHD and FHD titles to a 5TB hdd? Surely they have to be compressed in order to fit even after stripping? You state your physical disc is higher quality than your digital backup. Probably because of your rip method and what you've done to the data. Maybe I misread you? There is no difference using a bit perfect 1:1 file backup on a hdd vs the physical disc. Both are digital. Both are contained on something. The data is exactly the same. I don't think people are misinformed. Using a ripped file back up from a hdd can be every bit (pardon the pun) the same quality if not higher than the disc depending how you treat it and utilize it.


That said, I want to hold my investment of a title in my hand. I can hold a disc and I can hold a hdd. Each has the same digital data. A disc can go bad just like a hdd can go bad although a disc is less prone. Having each backs up each other. The physical disc is the starting point for me insuring I get all the data I'm ripping. If it was to be replaced by streamed data, I would be dependent on who ever was streaming it to me to still offer exactly what the disc did. They don't and I don't trust they will anytime soon. I hope physical media continues. Those that claim streamed media is the same quality as a disc are misinformed imo - perhaps brain washed by the oligarchs counting the money rolling in and at the same time discussing doing away with physical media so we won't know what we're missing.

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post #70 of 159 Old 02-18-2019, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rgb View Post
I think the studios wanna keep UHD discs at a premium price, for us high falutin' upper classes
I've noticed that UHD prices aren't that bad and some good sales for some titles. I've also read that the distributors or studios won't take back unsold UHD discs so the retailers will blow them out. There is a lack of enthusiasm compared to when the format was introduced and now they mostly release tentpole movies on them. The public seems to prefer 4K streaming.
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post #71 of 159 Old 02-18-2019, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by brazen1 View Post
Having a hard time understanding you?
How could you possibly rip 600 uncompressed UHD and FHD titles to a 5TB hdd? Surely they have to be compressed in order to fit even after stripping? You state your physical disc is higher quality than your digital backup. Probably because of your rip method and what you've done to the data. Maybe I misread you? There is no difference using a bit perfect 1:1 file backup on a hdd vs the physical disc. Both are digital. Both are contained on something. The data is exactly the same. I don't think people are misinformed. Using a ripped file back up from a hdd can be every bit (pardon the pun) the same quality if not higher than the disc depending how you treat it and utilize it.
Yeah I probably overexplained how I feel about it.

First off, I was talking about those who consider Netflix streaming to be the same quality as discs. I was also talking about buying the same compressed digital file off iTunes. When I rip, I rip a compressed file because I don't care about digital quality. When I want quality I load the disc on my OLED/Atmos home theater. I only rip for the convenience of portability or for streaming over my WiFi network when I'm laying in bed looking at the iPad.

I don't recall saying my digital library is uncompressed... I only said the reason I buy discs is because I prefer uncompressed quality. My 600 digital files are between 3-10GB each... and for now they all take up about 5TB in storage. I also have the 600 discs on a shelf.

I'm aware that people do 1:1 ripping but that's a bit overkill for me considering as said I rip for convenience of portability. I don't rip to replace discs. Discs are what I care about... like you I want title in hand. I rip with MakeMKV and encode with Handbrake... and while it does yield a quality copy that side by side with a blu ray it's hard to tell the difference... it's still compressed... and I'm fine with it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by brazen1 View Post
That said, I want to hold my investment of a title in my hand. I can hold a disc and I can hold a hdd. Each has the same digital data. A disc can go bad just like a hdd can go bad although a disc is less prone. Having each backs up each other. The physical disc is the starting point for me insuring I get all the data I'm ripping. If it was to be replaced by streamed data, I would be dependent on who ever was streaming it to me to still offer exactly what the disc did. They don't and I don't trust they will anytime soon. I hope physical media continues. Those that claim streamed media is the same quality as a disc are misinformed imo - perhaps brain washed by the oligarchs counting the money rolling in and at the same time discussing doing away with physical media so we won't know what we're missing.

Totally agree with you on this. I want the title in hand... and I have my digital data backed up on 2 separate drives. It's the disc on the shelf I care most about though.


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post #72 of 159 Old 02-18-2019, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TravisPNW View Post
It's not really about searching thru movies for me... it's more about uncompressed quality. I've got over 600 titles on 1080p/UHD disc... and have a digital copy of all of them as well. I'll either redeem the code myself or if it's an older blu ray without a code I just rip the disc with MakeMKV and then encode an MP4 with Handbrake. I then use another app to add the metadata and *BOOM* I've got a digital file for my own personal use that looks and sounds exactly like one that I would buy off iTunes... even right down to the file icon! Current digital storage for all these films on my HDD is pushing 5TB.



Sure you know, but all discs are lossy compressed video- DVD, BD, UHD

But discs will most likely always be the highest bitrate, lowest compression ratio video and only way to get lossless audio
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Originally Posted by Rgb View Post
I don't know of any 4K UHD disc without a 1080p BD included.
(always an exception)

So what you are asking is to eliminate 1080p BD packaged releases.

Only issue for some families would be that most 1080p BluRay releases include a DVD, while 4K releases usually do not.

With included UV/stream codes, not a huge deal assuming all allow a local phone/tablet download for mobile/car use.
Yes, there are many households in which Blu-ray is their big deal, and only furnished with a player in the living room. One or two other rooms, just a DVD player. DVD owns 57% of US video disc market share.

Re packaging, retailng can be squirrely--same store selling 4K/BD for less than BD/DVD, and DVDs selling for more than BD/DVD.

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post #74 of 159 Old 02-18-2019, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Rgb View Post
Sure you know, but all discs are lossy compressed video- DVD, BD, UHD

But discs will most likely always be the highest bitrate, lowest compression ratio video and only way to get lossless audio
Yep... that's why I buy the discs... I just didn't word it exactly like that. I make use of my digital library streaming my own copies out of convenience... but I haven't spent one nickel on any digital content from any retailer. I didn't buy an OLED/Atmos setup to stream with. Bottom line.

Discs on the other hand... I don't want to add it up. I'm actually in the process of putting together an inventory of all my discs via app... and it will also unfortunately tell me what I've spent. LOL

Quote:
Originally Posted by Panson View Post
Yes, there are many households in which Blu-ray is their big deal, and only furnished with a player in the living room. One or two other rooms, just a DVD player. DVD owns 57% of US video disc market share.

Re packaging, retailng can be squirrely--same store selling 4K/BD for less than BD/DVD, and DVDs selling for more than BD/DVD.
Yep.... physical media isn't going anywhere. When DVDs go extinct I might start to worry.
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post #75 of 159 Old 02-18-2019, 01:48 PM
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History lesson time

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LaserDisc

Quote:
It was estimated that in 1998, LaserDisc players were in approximately 2% of U.S. households (roughly two million).[14] By comparison, in 1999, players were in 10% of Japanese households.[15] LaserDisc was released on June 10, 1981 in Japan[clarification needed], and a total of 3.6 million LaserDisc players were sold there.[16] A total of 16.8 million LaserDisc players were sold worldwide, of which 9.5 million were sold by Pioneer.[11][12][13]

By 2001, LaserDisc was completely replaced by DVD in the North American retail marketplace, as neither players nor software were then produced. Players were still exported to North America from Japan until the end of 2001. The format has retained some popularity among American collectors, and to a greater degree in Japan, where the format was better supported and more prevalent during its life. In Europe, LaserDisc always remained an obscure format. It was chosen by the British Broadcasting Corporation (BBC) for the BBC Domesday Project in the mid-1980s, a school-based project to commemorate 900 years since the original Domesday Book in England. From 1991 until the early 2000s, the BBC also used LaserDisc technology to play out the channel idents.[citation needed]
4K display market
https://www.statista.com/statistics/...d-penetration/

Quote:
As of June 2018, 31 percent of U.S. households owned a 4K Ultra HDTV.


BD/DVD disc market
https://www.mediaplaynews.com/dvd-bl...es-to-decline/

Quote:
DVD/Blu-ray Disc player use remains in decline, with household penetration dropping to 67% in the first quarter of 2018 from 73% at the end of 2017, according to new data from Nielsen.

The drop underscores ongoing changes in consumer home entertainment behavior as fewer people watch, purchase and rent packaged media. Indeed, DVD players could be found in nearly 90% of U.S. households in 2008, despite the fact overall unit sales of DVD players actually declined 25% in the first half of that year, according to The NPD Group.

Among the coveted 18-34-year-old demo in 2018, DVD/Blu-ray player ownership has shrunk to 57.8%, compared to 69% among 30-49-year-olds and 58.6% among 50-64-year-olds, according to Statista.com.

Old news, but

https://www.multichannel.com/blog/fo...ll-2017-410900

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Forecast: 8.4M UHD Blu-ray Discs to Sell in 2017
Will equate to just 4% of global Blu-ray sales, Futuresource predicts
JEFF BAUMGARTNER
FEB 14, 2017
The market for UHD Blu-ray Discs is in the nascent stage, and a new forecast seem to agree.

Futuresource predicts that 8.4 million UHD Blu-ray discs will be sold this year, equating to just 4% of global Blu-ray sales.

Prices for players are becoming more palatable. Sony Electronics, for example, recently set a $300 price point for the UBP-X800 UHD Blu-ray Disc player, which will also support high dynamic range, Dolby Atmos and DTS:X audio.

The firm also notes that it has yet to see “significant traction” from UHD electronic sell-through even as a broader choice of titles in that format – from independents and major studios – emerge, but said that could change if major broadcast and telcos and other types of service providers latch on and begin to support and sell the format. A potential “game changer” could emerge if Apple launches a 4K store, Future source said.

For now, streamed SVOD movies is the most commonly accessed source of 4K content, but holds that UHD Blu-rays are poised to be the “crème de la crème” with respect to quality experience and film choice.

At the end of 2016, about 17 million households across the globe had access to streamed 4K UHD content from an SVOD service and a TV capable of playing it back, Futuresource said.

TAGSUHDBLU-RAYULTRA HD4K
Jeff Baumgartner
BY JEFF BAUMGARTNER


If 4K or future 8K discs can maintain a LaserDisc-like household share, I think we'll be OK
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post #76 of 159 Old 02-18-2019, 01:55 PM
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Yep.... physical media isn't going anywhere. When DVDs go extinct I might start to worry.
And UV/stream codes won't save you- the ability to download to a phone or tablet could be revoked any time moving forwards, or time limited, or price increased at will, or ads inserted, or edited versions replacing originals, etc
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Originally Posted by Rgb View Post
And UV/stream codes won't save you- the ability to download to a phone or tablet could be revoked any time moving forwards, or time limited, or price increased at will, or ads inserted, or edited versions replacing originals, etc

Yep... that's why I'm all in on discs and haven't spent a nickel on digital media. I'll redeem codes for my own personal use... or if the disc is older and doesn't have a code I'll rip my own. I can do whatever I want with my own MP4 digital copies be it streaming at home or copying to a device to take on the road.


Not investing a nickel in digital media controlled by someone else... and I haven't. If the redeemed codes of mine are suddenly locked out... I still have the disc to rip my own digital copy.
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post #78 of 159 Old 02-18-2019, 03:00 PM
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I got stung with Laserdiscs. However there is a major difference to today's market. Laserdiscs won't play in the current disc players. DVDs will work in the latest disc players. CDs and Blu-rays will also play in the latest players. That gives them staying power that Laserdiscs don't have.


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Originally Posted by Rgb View Post

If 4K or future 8K discs can maintain a LaserDisc-like household share, I think we'll be OK
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Spoiler!
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post #79 of 159 Old 02-18-2019, 05:44 PM
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Article on Samsung getting out of the Blu Ray player market in the US. But they cite some stats showing dismal Blu Ray and UHD Blu Ray sales numbers.

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2019...nts=1&start=40


Now, I haven't jumped on UHD yet and I know some people are ripping UHD Blu Rays.

Do the UHD BD releases include a digital copy in UHD Dolby Vision or is it just 1080p SDR?

Where can you play these digital copies?

Can you stream them through Plex in full resolution and HDR now or does Plex Media Server just transcode like crazy?
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post #80 of 159 Old 02-18-2019, 05:58 PM - Thread Starter
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This article is a year old, but I wonder if it could be an indicator of things to come:
https://www.displaydaily.com/paid-ne...s-on-8k-format

In December 2017, the Blu-ray Disc Association completed the specifications for an 8K Blu-ray format. The new standard supports the HEVC video codec of up to a maximum of 8K/60P as well as HDR (hybrid log gamma method). Furthermore, the MPEG4-AAC and MPEG4-ALS audio codecs are also supported.

On the other hand, the news about Samsung does not inspire confidence in a new physical format.

Last edited by meli; 02-18-2019 at 06:11 PM.
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post #81 of 159 Old 02-18-2019, 06:38 PM
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Yup

https://www.howtogeek.com/fyi/ultrav...r-your-movies/

https://variety.com/2019/digital/new...wn-1203124670/


Quote:
UltraViolet is shutting down this summer — and Vudu, Walmart’s video-streaming service, is notifying customers who have used the movie-locker system to not cancel or unlink their UltraViolet accounts prior to the July 31 shutdown date, because doing so would wipe out their entire libraries.

As first reported by Variety, the Digital Entertainment Content Ecosystem — the industry consortium that managed UltraViolet — will shut down the service on July 31, 2019. First launched in 2011, the free, cloud-based service let you register UltraViolet-compatible movie or TV show purchases and then stream or download it for offline viewing from different devices.

But UltraViolet never gained broad traction on the retail side or buy-in from Disney. Its closure comes as Movies Anywhere — a similar service led by Disney with participation from 20th Century Fox, Sony Pictures, Universal Pictures and Warner Bros. — has grown since its October 2017 debut, with collections available through Apple’s iTunes, Amazon, Vudu, Google Play, Microsoft Movies & TV, NBCUniversal’s FandangoNow and Comcast.

Last edited by Rgb; 02-18-2019 at 06:43 PM.
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post #82 of 159 Old 02-18-2019, 06:40 PM
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Reasons why 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray is dying before it really started
Rik Henderson | 18 February 2019

https://www.pocket-lint.com/tv/news/...really-started
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post #83 of 159 Old 02-18-2019, 07:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rgb View Post
Reasons why 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray is dying before it really started
Rik Henderson | 18 February 2019

https://www.pocket-lint.com/tv/news/...really-started

I keep hoping that Criterion will start releasing films on UHD Blu-Ray, but it seems things are going the wrong direction.
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post #84 of 159 Old 02-18-2019, 07:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meli View Post
I keep hoping that Criterion will start releasing films on UHD Blu-Ray, but it seems things are going the wrong direction.
4K BluRays prices will skyrocket in the secondhand market just like D-VHS tapes 'round these parts back in the day
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post #85 of 159 Old 02-19-2019, 02:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rgb View Post
Reasons why 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray is dying before it really started
Rik Henderson | 18 February 2019

https://www.pocket-lint.com/tv/news/...really-started
I like this bit of the article: -

"You only need to look at prices to also realise that 4K Blu-rays have not started to sell in significant numbers. New, premium releases still carry a hefty mark-up that is the same or very similar to their cost at launch two years ago. Venom, for example, is £25 for the 4K edition, £15 on conventional Blu-ray."

Don't force us to buy the 4K UHD disc together with the 2K HD disc then then. Just sell us the 4K UHD disc which should reduce costs and create less waste!
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post #86 of 159 Old 02-19-2019, 03:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meli View Post
I keep hoping that Criterion will start releasing films on UHD Blu-Ray, but it seems things are going the wrong direction.
Interesting discussions

https://www.reddit.com/r/criterion/c...criterion_uhd/

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=290934

http://www.criterionforum.org/forum/...ic.php?t=15532

Even old B&W films benefit from HDR- no suprise, as HDR is about light/dark detail, dynamic range and contrast

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post #87 of 159 Old 02-19-2019, 03:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeuspaul View Post
I got stung with Laserdiscs. However there is a major difference to today's market. Laserdiscs won't play in the current disc players. DVDs will work in the latest disc players. CDs and Blu-rays will also play in the latest players. That gives them staying power that Laserdiscs don't have.
Real Men MAKE LaserDisks fit into DVD/BD players

I found a way to repurpose my LD's

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/150-b...l#post56435226
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Last edited by Rgb; 02-19-2019 at 03:24 AM.
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post #88 of 159 Old 02-19-2019, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rgb View Post
Sure you know, but all discs are lossy compressed video- DVD, BD, UHD

But discs will most likely always be the highest bitrate, lowest compression ratio video and only way to get lossless audio
A streaming service I was communicating with told me they were getting 4K files sent them on 1 TB drives. The lossless format is usually .y4m. To date though they haven't yet streamed any 4K.


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Real Men MAKE LaserDisks fit into DVD/BD players
I always amazed visitors when playing an LD on how the player could flip a disc in such a limited space.
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post #89 of 159 Old 02-19-2019, 12:00 PM
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I don't think streaming services will increase bitrates for a long time if ever.

Even if broadband was substantially improved, streaming companies pay for hosting costs, storage infrastructure and CDNs. So they're going to look to minimize their bandwidth costs, not expand it.

As has been repeatedly said, PQ and AQ doesn't get people to buy content. So what incentive do the streaming companies have to drastically increases their costs? They're going to look to newer codecs to produce a "good enough" experience for the lowest amount of cost.
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post #90 of 159 Old 02-19-2019, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wco81 View Post
Even if broadband was substantially improved, streaming companies pay for hosting costs, storage infrastructure and CDNs. So they're going to look to minimize their bandwidth costs, not expand it.
And yet, here we are. Costs for all those things keep falling and demand keeps rising. Streaming services used to barely meet DVD quality with stereo, then it was 720p, then 1080p, now 4K (or 8K depending on the streamer) with HDR and Atmos. Fact is, they have every incentive to increase the quality of the stream in order to compete for our dollars. We've also seen the industry move from MPEG-2 to H.264 to H.265 with more and more efficient codecs on the way. If the only complaint is that they are trying to be as efficient as possible, I'm not sure that's really a complaint. "I sure wish that I had a 30GB/sec MPEG-1 streaming service!"

In the unlikely scenario that this is the last physical format, then I fully expect that these companies will do their damnedest to push higher bit rates and features into their streaming services. Even leaving physical formats out of the equation - the advancements in TVs themselves are a driving force to improve media quality to continuously incentivise purchasing new hardware.
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