Will 4k UHD Blu-ray discs be the last consumer physical media format for movies? - Page 5 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #121 of 155 Old 11-23-2019, 08:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Here's a new article from FlatpanelsHD regarding this exact topic:

An 8K Disc Format is Unlikely. Here's Why
https://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.ph...&id=1573809746
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post #122 of 155 Old 11-29-2019, 10:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meli View Post
Here's a new article from FlatpanelsHD regarding this exact topic:

An 8K Disc Format is Unlikely. Here's Why
https://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.ph...&id=1573809746
We will see how much enthusiasm the hardware manufacturers have pushing for 8K. 4K is becoming more prevalent quickly than I anticipated. Netflix pretty much demands their content be filmed in 4K, which is affecting Hollywood's entire workflow.

Blu-ray Picture Quality Tiers (updated through July 13, 2017)
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post #123 of 155 Old 12-01-2019, 05:20 AM
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I only recently started collecting 4K discs so I guess I"m in the honeymoon phase but wow they are so great.

I went through a phase of trying to go all streaming and iTunes 4K is fairly compelling and cheap. But anytime I watch streaming 4K now I just think of how much better it would sound on UHD BD.

-Brian
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post #124 of 155 Old 12-03-2019, 07:13 AM
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Yes.
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post #125 of 155 Old 12-04-2019, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Phantom Stranger View Post
We will see how much enthusiasm the hardware manufacturers have pushing for 8K. 4K is becoming more prevalent quickly than I anticipated. Netflix pretty much demands their content be filmed in 4K, which is affecting Hollywood's entire workflow.

You don't mean a disc format and players I hope.

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post #126 of 155 Old 12-04-2019, 02:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn View Post
You don't mean a disc format and players I hope.

Art
I doubt there will be another disc format, but I imagine the movie studios make more money if I buy the BluRay of a movie as opposed to streaming it on Netflix. So I guess the studios have the financial incentive to introduce a new physical media format. And obviously, the hardware manufacturers (Sony, Panasonic, etc) lose out on additional sales if I stream media instead of purchasing a new player.

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post #127 of 155 Old 12-04-2019, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn View Post
You don't mean a disc format and players I hope.

Art
I doubt consumers get a widespread 8K home video format on physical media from Hollywood. It's the hardware manufacturers that usually push these things forward.

Blu-ray Picture Quality Tiers (updated through July 13, 2017)
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post #128 of 155 Old 12-04-2019, 04:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meli View Post
Will 4k UHD Blu-ray discs be the last consumer physical media format for movies?


I'm just wondering what people's thoughts are, not asking for any practical reason.
Great topic, thanks!

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Originally Posted by Photokid1970 View Post
But now that makes me think - what if the 13th re-release of The Fifth Element had an upgraded Atmos soundtrack? That would be COOL. I'm slowly moving in the Atmos direction, and I could see me doing some re-purchases to get the upgraded sounds. So while I agree with what you said, I also think "Never say never"...
I just bought the 4K UHD Blu-Ray of "The Fifth Element" and it's awesome! Amazing picture and Dolby TrueHD 7.1 baby! AVSForum review.

It was the first movie I played to test our newly installed Atmos system.


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Originally Posted by Actionable Mango View Post
Every physical video format has had dramatic and obvious benefits from the prior formats. With 4kUHD we have reached the point where most consumers can't tell the difference.

It's not just millennials. I'm middle aged and almost all of my friends and family have given up on buying new physical video.
Exactly


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Originally Posted by TravisPNW View Post
It may be dying and I'll still keep buying them till the last day.

I'd be all for that. I've yet to watch a single HD disc that came in the 4K package. No reason to.
I think the second disc (much like the DVD in the Blu-Ray package) is as much for a second lower quality player in the home as it is a vessel for the bonus content.

Often most/all of the bonus content is on this second disc.
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post #129 of 155 Old 12-04-2019, 04:35 PM
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One poster said streaming quality is "good enough". Another dislikes plastic.

Not here. Love plastic, and Netflix with their mostly boring Originals and 4K Premium premium are gone forever from this household. Amazon may follow one day, if/when they pi** us off.

Cut the cord? Nope, it's closer to "cut the streamers" here. For the most part, plastic disc and cable TV rule. Amen.

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post #130 of 155 Old 12-04-2019, 04:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantom Stranger View Post
I doubt consumers get a widespread 8K home video format on physical media from Hollywood. It's the hardware manufacturers that usually push these things forward.
Who is left even making UHD players? I don't see it frankly.

Art
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post #131 of 155 Old 12-05-2019, 12:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn View Post
[Who is left even making UHD players? I don't see it frankly.
Art
Maybe the days of standalone optical players are coming to an end. But if the next physical media format takes the form of a flash drive, then the reader could be incorporated into AppleTV’s, home theater receivers, game consoles, or the TV itself.

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post #132 of 155 Old 12-05-2019, 12:51 AM
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Flash drives aren't likely to happen - you're talking about a format that's so pricey to mass manufacture that you're going to have be a die hard to pay $100 for a movie. Similar to how laserdisc is.

Discs are cheap because they are cheap to manufacture - stamping out a disc takes seconds and you can do hundreds of them in an hour. Flash drives have to be written sequentially and writing 100+GB (which is the size for 4k movies, who knows what 8k would be) would easily take 5-6 minutes each (and that's using very high end flash drives that are basically SSDs where you're spending $200 for 128GB)

Nintendo uses mask ROM modules for their cartridges, which do allow for very fast manufacture, but you need a substantial investment to create the masks to program the chips. You need to replicate a lot to amortize that cost, but it still costs way more than the couple of pennies a disc costs.

The future would be downloads as few people would be willing to wait minutes at a kiosk to get their latest movies transferred via flash drive. And if they are slow drives, like cheap ones are, it could take over an hour. And if you want them to transfer in a reasonable time, then you're looking at slightly better than streaming quality. Chances are, you'd spend money on a box like a kalidescape which lets you download full versions over an extended period of time, because few people would be willing to spend an hour at a store to buy so,etching they could stream instantly, or spend hundreds of bucks on a movie.
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post #133 of 155 Old 12-05-2019, 02:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Worf View Post
Flash drives aren't likely to happen...
Do you think even in 10 or 15 years the manufacturing cost will be too high?

If there were another physical media format, it would be even more niche than 4K UHD discs; meaning it would be a devoted audience.

Right now I can buy a UHD disc for $9.99. If a flash drive (or something similar) added ten or fifteen dollars to that price, I’d be on board. That would be comparable to the price of Criterion BluRays.

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post #134 of 155 Old 12-05-2019, 03:36 AM
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Who is left even making UHD players? I don't see it frankly.

Art
Sony

edit- I forgot to mention UHD BD is part of PlayStation 5 which will sell millions of players next year.
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post #135 of 155 Old 12-05-2019, 03:52 AM
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One poster said streaming quality is "good enough". Another dislikes plastic.

Not here. Love plastic, and Netflix with their mostly boring Originals and 4K Premium premium are gone forever from this household. Amazon may follow one day, if/when they pi** us off.

Cut the cord? Nope, it's closer to "cut the streamers" here. For the most part, plastic disc and cable TV rule. Amen.
I'm so with you ... now.

Streaming is good enough (in some cases) and I don't like plastic as a concept but...

Did I get into this hobby for good enough? ... Should my carefully assembled and tuned home theater provide more quality than the kid at the grocery store in the shopping cart with an iPad ?

I watched Anna and the Apocalypse on Prime last night because I was in the mood for something I never heard of. It was good enough... I don't ever need to see it again. I thought it was funny.

If I want to watch a movie I am familiar with or one that I love then I want the full quality currently enjoy-able. I can look and listen to a UHD BD without thinking about the quality because it's a bit more than good enough.. it's immersive.

Plastic is bad. And Environmental factors loom large in todays world. The going green version - I don't know which is better between streaming and discs. Slip covers should be discontinued for sure.

I spent a year or so thinking iTunes was the ultimate answer ... now iTunes is gone actually... but still the buy iTunes 4k for $4.99 is tempting. I started watching the discs though and now I don't want to see (and more importantly hear) anything on streaming if it's available on disc.

A friend loaned me his Disney+ credentials and I was like awesome I'm going to watch Cars in 4K with ATMOS. ... It's not what I was wanting. The quality is diluted and it shows. Thank goodness Disney has released just about everything they have on UHD Blu Ray. It's more expensive and it's totally worth it.

-Brian
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post #136 of 155 Old 12-05-2019, 05:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Brian Hampton View Post
Sony

edit- I forgot to mention UHD BD is part of PlayStation 5 which will sell millions of players next year.
I'm talking an 8K player (which is the topic here really). I think 4K will be around a while as a physical medium I'm not at all optimistic about an 8K iteration. The fact that we are seeing companies drop out of UHD player manufacturing doesn't bode well for 8K IMO.

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post #137 of 155 Old 12-05-2019, 05:19 AM
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ok. sorry.

I hope 8K goes away only because I know I can't afford it for now and many of the 4K movies seem to be based on 2K source material already.

But,... progress can't be stopped and I'm sure I'll get used to new hotness eventually if it happens.


-Brian

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post #138 of 155 Old 12-05-2019, 10:27 AM
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I'm so with you ... now.

Streaming is good enough (in some cases) and I don't like plastic as a concept but...

...Plastic is bad. And Environmental factors loom large in todays world. The going green version - I don't know which is better between streaming and discs. Slip covers should be discontinued for sure...

-Brian
And now for something completely different:
https://news.microsoft.com/innovatio..._campaign=1639


Maybe it'll be glass.
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post #139 of 155 Old 12-05-2019, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by NTTD View Post
And now for something completely different:
https://news.microsoft.com/innovatio..._campaign=1639

Maybe it'll be glass.
Good stuff, NTTD. Whatever comes that can store efficiently without concern about AV erosion or disappearance, I'm all for. It may not apply to me, but that's quite okay.

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post #140 of 155 Old 12-05-2019, 12:37 PM
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Good stuff, NTTD. Whatever comes that can store efficiently without concern about AV erosion or disappearance, I'm all for. It may not apply to me, but that's quite okay.
Just don't drop it!

I can see why studios might like this format, people would have to re-buy if it broke.


While I still buy and prefer physical media for the few movies that deserve the all-out treatment (and are good enough to re-watch on occasion), I like digital copies a bunch.


Having kids in the house completely changed my view on streaming, nothing gets lost damaged or misplaced.
Before widespread streaming content, I had to re-purchase movies that were on heavy rotation in the house (mostly kids stuff) more that a few times.

Having used Steam since the early days showed me this upside of digital copies long ago too.


As far as "loosing" my content licenses to companies going under, UV going under didn't hurt me any. AFAIA everything transferred over to VUDU, if I lost anything I don't miss it.

Plus I just recently purchased a 4K UHD movie that had a UV "digital copy" (The Fifth Element). It tried the DV code on VUDU and it worked, I now have the digital 4K version too so no loss there either.

[EDIT] I misspoke, I have the 1080p (HDX) digital version not the 4K (UHD) one. Not sure if that would have been any different with UV. As I haven't used them in years, I'm not sure if they even had UHD copies of movies.

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post #141 of 155 Old 12-05-2019, 01:06 PM
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Just don't drop it!

I can see why studios might like this format, people would have to re-buy if it broke.
Why I stopped buying expensive wine decanters long ago.

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post #142 of 155 Old 12-06-2019, 12:08 AM
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Originally Posted by meli View Post
Do you think even in 10 or 15 years the manufacturing cost will be too high?

If there were another physical media format, it would be even more niche than 4K UHD discs; meaning it would be a devoted audience.

Right now I can buy a UHD disc for $9.99. If a flash drive (or something similar) added ten or fifteen dollars to that price, I’d be on board. That would be comparable to the price of Criterion BluRays.
Hard to tell - 10-15 years is eons in technology - 10 years ago we were just coming out of the HD format wars. And today we've gone to UHD. 10 years from now we could be talking about 16k or holographic video. And who knows what the storage requirements are for that.

Chances are, we'd have movie boxes that could download the full quality video onto hard drives or something. Internet speeds wouldn't matter because it can pre download the data over the course of days or weeks. Of course it would be expensive, since those people would be the ones demanding quality would pay for it, while joe average sticks with streaming. Similar to how today kalidescape and such let you buy full disc images for your machine.

I don't see going to the store and buying flash sticks with movies preprogrammed on them, and kiosks where you can select your movie and pay won't be successful - no one wants to wait at the kiosk while their movie is copied for more than a minute.
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post #143 of 155 Old 12-06-2019, 08:28 AM
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Last week I finally noticed "Lawrence of Arabia" on Netflix, so, having the 4K Netflix option, I sat down about 30" in front of our 55" Sony 900E, which we use as a computer monitor, and watched LoA for what must be at least the 30th time. In short, the movie was stunningly beautiful. Bravo Netflix.

The thing that I find rather ironic is that what I saw last week, 2019, is the best picture quality of LoA that I had seen since the movie was originally released, in a movie theater. In other words, improvement with each new format. IMO, the N version is markedly better than regular BD. I do not have the UHD disk, so I can't compare what I saw on N to the disk. I'll leave that comparison to others who have seen the N version and also own the UHD BD. If the latter is markedly better than the N version, I might actually spring for it, but only long after the N version becomes unavailable on N. (It's getting to the point that I can lipsynch all of the characters' speaking parts, which makes for a less-than-enjoyable viewing experience............ especially for my wife.)
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post #144 of 155 Old 12-06-2019, 10:08 AM
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Last week I finally noticed "Lawrence of Arabia" on Netflix, so, having the 4K Netflix option, I sat down about 30" in front of our 55" Sony 900E, which we use as a computer monitor, and watched LoA for what must be at least the 30th time. In short, the movie was stunningly beautiful. Bravo Netflix.

The thing that I find rather ironic is that what I saw last week, 2019, is the best picture quality of LoA that I had seen since the movie was originally released, in a movie theater. In other words, improvement with each new format. IMO, the N version is markedly better than regular BD. I do not have the UHD disk, so I can't compare what I saw on N to the disk. I'll leave that comparison to others who have seen the N version and also own the UHD BD. If the latter is markedly better than the N version, I might actually spring for it, but only long after the N version becomes unavailable on N. (It's getting to the point that I can lipsynch all of the characters' speaking parts, which makes for a less-than-enjoyable viewing experience............ especially for my wife.)
This hasn't been released yet on 4K UHD Blu-ray. They are probably waiting for an anniversary. I'll buy it when they do. Hurry up Sony.
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post #145 of 155 Old 12-06-2019, 10:11 AM
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Last week I finally noticed "Lawrence of Arabia" on Netflix, so, having the 4K Netflix option, I sat down about 30" in front of our 55" Sony 900E, which we use as a computer monitor, and watched LoA for what must be at least the 30th time. In short, the movie was stunningly beautiful. Bravo Netflix.

The thing that I find rather ironic is that what I saw last week, 2019, is the best picture quality of LoA that I had seen since the movie was originally released, in a movie theater. In other words, improvement with each new format. IMO, the N version is markedly better than regular BD. I do not have the UHD disk, so I can't compare what I saw on N to the disk. I'll leave that comparison to others who have seen the N version and also own the UHD BD. If the latter is markedly better than the N version, I might actually spring for it, but only long after the N version becomes unavailable on N. (It's getting to the point that I can lipsynch all of the characters' speaking parts, which makes for a less-than-enjoyable viewing experience............ especially for my wife.)
There is no available UHD disc version of LoA.

Art
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post #146 of 155 Old 12-06-2019, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meli View Post
Do you think even in 10 or 15 years the manufacturing cost will be too high?

If there were another physical media format, it would be even more niche than 4K UHD discs; meaning it would be a devoted audience.

Right now I can buy a UHD disc for $9.99. If a flash drive (or something similar) added ten or fifteen dollars to that price, I’d be on board. That would be comparable to the price of Criterion BluRays.
If they think it's easier to crack the encryption and pirate on a flash drive, the studios will never allow it.
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post #147 of 155 Old 12-06-2019, 11:47 AM
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This hasn't been released yet on 4K UHD Blu-ray. They are probably waiting for an anniversary. I'll buy it when they do. Hurry up Sony.
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There is no available UHD disc version of LoA.
Interesting situation for the present thread topic. Do you think that the IMO beautiful LoA version on N is going to increase or decrease sales of the presumably upcoming UHD disk?
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Interesting situation for the present thread topic. Do you think that the IMO beautiful LoA version on N is going to increase or decrease sales of the presumably upcoming UHD disk?
I can't say as I don't stream Netflix, unlike other folks. I'm in the " buy / this should be the last copy of LoA I ever need " category.
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post #149 of 155 Old 12-06-2019, 12:21 PM
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Interesting situation for the present thread topic. Do you think that the IMO beautiful LoA version on N is going to increase or decrease sales of the presumably upcoming UHD disk?
I can't say I have the 4K version on Kaleidescape it is beautiful but I personally have not seen a version at 4K with an HDR pass.

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post #150 of 155 Old 12-06-2019, 12:57 PM
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I feel like my setup is the best of both worlds. I take and rip all my Blu-ray and 4K Blu-ray movies uncompressed to a computer built to act as a media server (with 15 TB of hard drives), then stream to any device in the house with Plex. I really like having all my media in ultimate quality, fully-accessible without the disc, with easy navigation. I would be really sad if they no longer provided physical media. Any provider or service can disappear at any time and leave you with nothing for your money spent. Just look at what happened with Ultraviolet. I still have my digital copies, but if I want to view them through a streaming service, I have to either access Google Play Movies, Vudu, or Movies Anywhere depending on the movie. That's because due to licensing issues, not all my movies are accessible under all streaming services. Not to mention, that doesn't currently include any movies I didn't have a digital copy for, so I'd be stuck repurchasing all my existing movies for digital if I wanted all my movies in one place. It's a freaking mess, and that's for content I own. As we've seen with Disney+ and Netflix, any movie studio can yank their content from any streaming service at any time. And what if your internet goes down? You just can't watch anything? Right now my Plex library is massive, everything is in one place, and it's available in the best possible quality, without relying on my internet connection to be fully available. It would be a terrible shame if I couldn't keep growing it in the future. I personally don't care if there's no format after UHD discs. Today's content is absolutely more than enough for me and the only reason they'll release a new format is probably to introduce some ****ty new DRM that prevents you from actually owning your own purchases. I just don't want to see physical media go away.
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