Star Wars: The Skywalker Saga - 4K Boxset - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 92Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #31 of 151 Old 02-25-2020, 09:51 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Brian Hampton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 9,462
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1599 Post(s)
Liked: 1056
I can see you thought about this a lot more than I have.

I appreciate how accurately you convey the information and how much thought goes into it.

I don't think I'll ever do the free trial of Disney + because I tend to collect most of what they offer. (Marvel, Pixar, Star Wars.) I did check it out for a few days when a friend who had it visited me last year.

-Brian
Josh Z likes this.
Brian Hampton is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #32 of 151 Old 02-25-2020, 12:20 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Josh Z's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Planet Boston, source of the spice, Melange.
Posts: 26,210
Mentioned: 43 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5200 Post(s)
Liked: 4266
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Hampton View Post
I can see you thought about this a lot more than I have.

I appreciate how accurately you convey the information and how much thought goes into it.

I don't think I'll ever do the free trial of Disney + because I tend to collect most of what they offer. (Marvel, Pixar, Star Wars.) I did check it out for a few days when a friend who had it visited me last year.
What it sadly comes down to is that these movies - three of the most popular and beloved (not to mention profitable) in all of film history - are in sad shape and deserve a proper and thorough restoration from the best surviving film elements, but the powers-that-be at Disney and Lucasfilm have absolutely no interest in ever doing that.

Josh Z
Television and Home Theater Writer/Editor, Primetimer.com

My opinions are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my employers, whomever they may be.
Josh Z is offline  
post #33 of 151 Old 03-01-2020, 04:36 AM
Senior Member
 
tbuick6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: White Plains, NY
Posts: 259
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 50 Post(s)
Liked: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post
What it sadly comes down to is that these movies - three of the most popular and beloved (not to mention profitable) in all of film history - are in sad shape and deserve a proper and thorough restoration from the best surviving film elements, but the powers-that-be at Disney and Lucasfilm have absolutely no interest in ever doing that.
Thank our stars for Fan Edits. Lovingly and quite professionally restored versions of the original trilogy are my go to for those titles. The Internet is our friend. Use the Force.

"To Live Outside The Law You Must Be Honest"
tbuick6 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #34 of 151 Old 03-04-2020, 08:39 AM
Senior Member
 
kimg1453's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Lakewood Ranch, Fl
Posts: 209
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 85 Post(s)
Liked: 125
Has anybody else watched their 4K copy of SOLO: A Star Wars Story?

I received my copy from the Disney Movie Club and watched it last night. I was extremely disappointed with the picture quality. It was dark, washed out, lacked clarity and definition and no amount of settings could improve upon it. My Blu-ray copy is drastically better in terms of the picture quality.
kimg1453 is online now  
post #35 of 151 Old 03-04-2020, 09:21 AM
Absolute Ultimate AV
 
ARROW-AV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 4,847
Mentioned: 286 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4440 Post(s)
Liked: 7317
Quote:
Originally Posted by kimg1453 View Post
Has anybody else watched their 4K copy of SOLO: A Star Wars Story?

I received my copy from the Disney Movie Club and watched it last night. I was extremely disappointed with the picture quality. It was dark, washed out, lacked clarity and definition and no amount of settings could improve upon it. My Blu-ray copy is drastically better in terms of the picture quality.
This movie does have somewhat muted color grading however it should not look dark or washed out.

What is your display, source device/player, and what is doing the HDR tone-mapping?
.
ARROW-AV is offline  
post #36 of 151 Old 03-04-2020, 11:42 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Josh Z's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Planet Boston, source of the spice, Melange.
Posts: 26,210
Mentioned: 43 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5200 Post(s)
Liked: 4266
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post
I watched A New Hope on Disney+ with my kids this weekend. It looked basically the same as the Blu-ray, except dimmer overall and now with extra "Maclunkey."
I'm going to backtrack on this a little, as I've now had some time to do a more direct comparison between the 4k streaming version of A New Hope on Disney+ with the older Blu-ray. The streaming verison had color grading changes that are an improvement in some respects. The walls of Leia's spaceship at the beginning are much more white than the Blu-ray, which had a blue tinge. Flesh tones also look less orange.

On the other hand, dark scenes later in the movie tend to be murkier in the 4k version than the Blu-ray. As I mentioned earlier, the HDR grade has no highlights that extend beyond the SDR range.

I'm told that Lucasfilm rescanned the film elements for the 4k transfers. In scenes with no visual effects and no digital composites, there might be a tiny difference in visible detail, but I didn't find it to be significant. Unfortunately, any scene with CGI or in which the original special effects were digitally recomposited are forever locked to the quality of the Digital Intermediate made in 1997. At the time, those scenes were output to film and spliced into the negative, and are now a permanent part of the archive preservation copy. No matter how many times you rescan the neg now, or at what resolution, the 1997 additions will always look low-res and crappy.

Sadly, those additions amount to significant portions of the film. Even scenes without overt CGI may have had minor digital changes not meant to call attention to themselves. (IIRC, Lucas swapped the position of the insignia on an Imperial officer's uniform to the other side of his chest at one point.) Most of the old special effects were also recomposited digitally.

Josh Z
Television and Home Theater Writer/Editor, Primetimer.com

My opinions are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my employers, whomever they may be.

Last edited by Josh Z; 03-24-2020 at 07:12 AM.
Josh Z is offline  
post #37 of 151 Old 03-04-2020, 02:26 PM
Senior Member
 
kimg1453's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Lakewood Ranch, Fl
Posts: 209
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 85 Post(s)
Liked: 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
This movie does have somewhat muted color grading however it should not look dark or washed out.

What is your display, source device/player, and what is doing the HDR tone-mapping?
.
Arrow-AV,

I watched Solo on both my Sim2 SuperLumis projector and on a Sony XBR 75Z9D. The results were the same whether on the Sony or through the Sim2, which is of course a 1080P projector. The picture the Sim2 produces on most content is phenomenal and of course the Sony's picture is fantastic. I did switch HRD settings in both the OPPO player as well as on the Sony for true 4K.

There is no way the 4K picture is better than the standard Blu-ray disc I have. I definitely feel the quality is worse and that Disney or whoever dropped the ball. Most of the picture is what I would described as Murky. Just poor quality overall. Some scenes looked reasonably good but most of the time the transfer just didn't represent a good 4K presentation.

Kim
ARROW-AV likes this.

Last edited by kimg1453; 03-04-2020 at 02:32 PM.
kimg1453 is online now  
post #38 of 151 Old 03-04-2020, 02:57 PM
Absolute Ultimate AV
 
ARROW-AV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 4,847
Mentioned: 286 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4440 Post(s)
Liked: 7317
Quote:
Originally Posted by kimg1453 View Post
Arrow-AV,

I watched Solo on both my Sim2 SuperLumis projector and on a Sony XBR 75Z9D. The results were the same whether on the Sony or through the Sim2, which is of course a 1080P projector. The picture the Sim2 produces on most content is phenomenal and of course the Sony's picture is fantastic. I did switch HRD settings in both the OPPO player as well as on the Sony for true 4K.

There is no way the 4K picture is better than the standard Blu-ray disc I have. I definitely feel the quality is worse and that Disney or whoever dropped the ball. Most of the picture is what I would described as Murky. Just poor quality overall. Some scenes looked reasonably good but most of the time the transfer just didn't represent a good 4K presentation.

Kim
Well it wouldn't be the first instance wherein this is the case. The same thing is with OBLIVION. The image with the 4K HDR version is also significantly worse than the regular Blu-Ray Disc
.
ARROW-AV is offline  
post #39 of 151 Old 03-05-2020, 03:29 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 45
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 30
I especially hope finally a good mix for episode III, on the current blurays it is bad, rather poor in power and not immersive enough. Especially in comparison to the 2 previous episodes which are insane on this
TomSawyerBzH is offline  
post #40 of 151 Old 03-05-2020, 05:09 PM
Member
 
magi1500's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Granada Hills, CA
Posts: 143
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 30 Post(s)
Liked: 43
kimg1453,

I thought the picture on the 4K Solo disc was so bad that I left myself a post it note inside the O Card that said, "only play the Blu-ray"! This is the only time I've done that. :-)
magi1500 is offline  
post #41 of 151 Old 03-05-2020, 05:33 PM
Senior Member
 
kimg1453's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Lakewood Ranch, Fl
Posts: 209
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 85 Post(s)
Liked: 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by magi1500 View Post
kimg1453,

I thought the picture on the 4K Solo disc was so bad that I left myself a post it note inside the O Card that said, "only play the Blu-ray"! This is the only time I've done that. :-)
Yes, it seems Disney really messed up. My concern now is how their handling the 4K transfers for all the other Star Wars 4K disc's coming out. I ordered all of them through the Disney Movie Club, but If I get another one that produces the same bad quality, I'll be returning all of them and be damned if I loose the Atmos tracks. I'll stick with all standard Blu-ray's.

Disney might need to be made aware of this situation.
kimg1453 is online now  
post #42 of 151 Old 03-18-2020, 10:08 AM
Absolute Ultimate AV
 
ARROW-AV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 4,847
Mentioned: 286 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4440 Post(s)
Liked: 7317
Quote:
Originally Posted by magi1500 View Post
kimg1453,

I thought the picture on the 4K Solo disc was so bad that I left myself a post it note inside the O Card that said, "only play the Blu-ray"! This is the only time I've done that. :-)
If you purchase the 4K disc of OBLIVION you should do the same. And it's not just the video; the audio on the regular Blu-Ray is better as well!
.
Art Sonneborn likes this.
ARROW-AV is offline  
post #43 of 151 Old 03-19-2020, 12:52 PM
Senior Member
 
DaveMN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 211
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 31 Post(s)
Liked: 32
I had the box set pre-ordered, but decided to cancel. I just can't justify $250 if the OT is still sourced from 1080p transfers.

DaveMN is offline  
post #44 of 151 Old 03-19-2020, 08:57 PM
Advanced Member
 
Lozin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 727
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 354 Post(s)
Liked: 168
Same, I canceled and instead ordered just The Rise Of Skywalker


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Lozin is offline  
post #45 of 151 Old 03-19-2020, 09:41 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bryantc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Europa
Posts: 1,043
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 742 Post(s)
Liked: 676
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveMN View Post
I had the box set pre-ordered, but decided to cancel. I just can't justify $250 if the OT is still sourced from 1080p transfers.
Wait what? The original trilogy has been completely remastered in 4K and you can watch these transfers right now on Disney+.

I can’t believe how much misinformation there is in this thread. This has been widely discussed on this forum for months now and you can find screenshot comparisons all over the web.

The Disney+ versions are vastly superior to the Blu-ray and even edge out the 4K fan restorations (ignoring some DNR and color differences).

Media: LG 88" 8K OLED Z9 / Denon AVR-X8500H 7.1.4 / Oppo UDP-203 / Nvidia SHIELD (2017) / Apple TV 4K / Sony 4K FMP-X10 / Gaming PC (Threadripper 1950X / 2x GeForce GTX 1080 Ti SLI) / PlayStation 4 Pro with PS VR / PlayStation (original)
Family: Sony 85" 4K XBR-85X900F / Denon AVR-X3400H 5.1 / Nvidia SHIELD (2017) / Apple TV 4K / C64 Mini - Game: LG 77" 4K OLED C8 / Denon AVR-X3400H 5.1 / Nvidia SHIELD (2017) / Apple TV 4K

Last edited by bryantc; 03-19-2020 at 09:48 PM.
bryantc is offline  
post #46 of 151 Old 03-20-2020, 01:50 AM
Absolute Ultimate AV
 
ARROW-AV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 4,847
Mentioned: 286 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4440 Post(s)
Liked: 7317
Quote:
Originally Posted by bryantc View Post
Wait what? The original trilogy has been completely remastered in 4K and you can watch these transfers right now on Disney+.

I can’t believe how much misinformation there is in this thread. This has been widely discussed on this forum for months now and you can find screenshot comparisons all over the web.

The Disney+ versions are vastly superior to the Blu-ray and even edge out the 4K fan restorations (ignoring some DNR and color differences).
Please kindly post some links to both of these
.
DaveMN and Transistorious like this.
ARROW-AV is offline  
post #47 of 151 Old 03-20-2020, 08:00 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Josh Z's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Planet Boston, source of the spice, Melange.
Posts: 26,210
Mentioned: 43 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5200 Post(s)
Liked: 4266
Quote:
Originally Posted by bryantc View Post
Wait what? The original trilogy has been completely remastered in 4K and you can watch these transfers right now on Disney+.

I can’t believe how much misinformation there is in this thread. This has been widely discussed on this forum for months now and you can find screenshot comparisons all over the web.

The Disney+ versions are vastly superior to the Blu-ray and even edge out the 4K fan restorations (ignoring some DNR and color differences).
"Vastly superior"? Talk about misinformation.

They fixed the color grading to remove the teal-and-orange bias in a few scenes, so that's nice. That's the most significant change. The difference in detail is barely noticeable, and only applies to shots that don't have any Special Edition revisions. The "HDR" is not really high dynamic range at all.

Prominent sections of all three movies still look heavily processed with DNR and edge enhancement, because those problems were baked into the replacement negatives made in 1997.

Josh Z
Television and Home Theater Writer/Editor, Primetimer.com

My opinions are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my employers, whomever they may be.
Josh Z is offline  
post #48 of 151 Old 03-20-2020, 10:51 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
LNEWoLF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,132
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 578 Post(s)
Liked: 375
4K Skywalker Saga boxset UNboxing.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=r29t44mp59Q

Twin Pioneer AVR Locomotives-Elite SC 97, SC 1222 7.2.4, DOLBY Atmos and DTS X, (Front Pre Out,) JBL Pro Synthesis LS Series Speakers, F L R-LS80, Cen-LS, S L R-LS60, SB L R-LS60, 4 Dolby Atmos Enabled Klipsch R41SA, Twin Klipsch R120SW, Sony XBR 85X 850G, Sony UBP-X800M2, ATV G4, Yamaha ATS 1060 Sound Bar, True Depth Firestorm 2.0 3D Glasses, Harmony Hub with Utlimate 1 Remote, Broadlink RM Pro2, EYE Pad Air, Winegard FL6550A
LNEWoLF is offline  
post #49 of 151 Old 03-20-2020, 11:24 AM
ARROW-AV is offline  
post #50 of 151 Old 03-20-2020, 01:03 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
LNEWoLF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,132
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 578 Post(s)
Liked: 375
IMDB Technical Specs. Star Wars: Episode IV - A New Hope (1977)

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0076759...ef_=tt_dt_spec

Digital Intermediate (4K) (2019 remaster)

Twin Pioneer AVR Locomotives-Elite SC 97, SC 1222 7.2.4, DOLBY Atmos and DTS X, (Front Pre Out,) JBL Pro Synthesis LS Series Speakers, F L R-LS80, Cen-LS, S L R-LS60, SB L R-LS60, 4 Dolby Atmos Enabled Klipsch R41SA, Twin Klipsch R120SW, Sony XBR 85X 850G, Sony UBP-X800M2, ATV G4, Yamaha ATS 1060 Sound Bar, True Depth Firestorm 2.0 3D Glasses, Harmony Hub with Utlimate 1 Remote, Broadlink RM Pro2, EYE Pad Air, Winegard FL6550A
LNEWoLF is offline  
post #51 of 151 Old 03-20-2020, 01:49 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bryantc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Europa
Posts: 1,043
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 742 Post(s)
Liked: 676
Quote:
Originally Posted by LNEWoLF View Post
IMDB Technical Specs. Star Wars: Episode IV - A New Hope (1977)

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0076759...ef_=tt_dt_spec

Digital Intermediate (4K) (2019 remaster)

The 4K remasters were actually done many years ago but 2019 is the first time we saw them.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post
"Vastly superior"? Talk about misinformation.

They fixed the color grading to remove the teal-and-orange bias in a few scenes, so that's nice. That's the most significant change. The difference in detail is barely noticeable, and only applies to shots that don't have any Special Edition revisions. The "HDR" is not really high dynamic range at all.

Prominent sections of all three movies still look heavily processed with DNR and edge enhancement, because those problems were baked into the replacement negatives made in 1997.
Sorry but you are way off on this Josh. The 1997 SE revisions account for maybe 10-20% of the running time. They went back and scanned the negative at 4K and then re-rendered all of the CG changes that were done since then. Again this was discussed in fan circles months ago and is old news.

Here's a good starting point for you to catch up:
https://starwarsviscomp.wordpress.com/versions/19se/
https://twitter.com/StarWarsVisComp


Quote:
Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
Please kindly post some links to both of these
.
I assume you can use a search function. Here's a hint: Disney+ launched on Nov 12.


And here are some screenshots for you:








SpeedDemon and Cheddarhead like this.

Media: LG 88" 8K OLED Z9 / Denon AVR-X8500H 7.1.4 / Oppo UDP-203 / Nvidia SHIELD (2017) / Apple TV 4K / Sony 4K FMP-X10 / Gaming PC (Threadripper 1950X / 2x GeForce GTX 1080 Ti SLI) / PlayStation 4 Pro with PS VR / PlayStation (original)
Family: Sony 85" 4K XBR-85X900F / Denon AVR-X3400H 5.1 / Nvidia SHIELD (2017) / Apple TV 4K / C64 Mini - Game: LG 77" 4K OLED C8 / Denon AVR-X3400H 5.1 / Nvidia SHIELD (2017) / Apple TV 4K
bryantc is offline  
post #52 of 151 Old 03-20-2020, 02:21 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Josh Z's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Planet Boston, source of the spice, Melange.
Posts: 26,210
Mentioned: 43 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5200 Post(s)
Liked: 4266
Quote:
Originally Posted by bryantc View Post
Sorry but you are way off on this Josh. The 1997 SE revisions account for maybe 10-20% of the running time. They went back and scanned the negative at 4K and then re-rendered all of the CG changes that were done since then. Again this was discussed in fan circles months ago and is old news.
The 1997 SE changes account for more of the movie than most people realize. Aside from the obvious CGI insertions, most of the old special effects and optical transitions (dissolves, screen wipes, etc.) were recomposited digitally at 1080p resolution and output back to film. Lucas also made a significant number of small changes meant to be invisible to the viewer, such as painting out production flubs that bugged him even if nobody else ever noticed them or cared. All of that is part of the negative now, forever locked to the quality of the 1997 Digital Intermediates.

I have both Disney+ and the Blu-rays, and I compared a New Hope on both recently. The Maclunkey version does fix a few things that were wrong with the Blu-rays (mostly color grading), but to say that it's "vastly superior" is an overstatement. It still frequently looks overprocessed and unpleasant, even in shots with no obvious visual effects. Grain patterns freeze in place on screen while the camera moves. Edge halos surround people and objects. And that's to say nothing of the 1997 CGI, which is extremely low-res and smeary every time it shows up on screen. Even by 1997 standards, the CGI in these movies sucks. The visual effects in Starship Troopers and The Fifth Element both hold up much better than these.

Josh Z
Television and Home Theater Writer/Editor, Primetimer.com

My opinions are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my employers, whomever they may be.

Last edited by Josh Z; 03-23-2020 at 11:56 AM.
Josh Z is offline  
post #53 of 151 Old 03-20-2020, 02:26 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bryantc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Europa
Posts: 1,043
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 742 Post(s)
Liked: 676
Josh unless you've got some real data or screenshots your opinion is meaningless.

Media: LG 88" 8K OLED Z9 / Denon AVR-X8500H 7.1.4 / Oppo UDP-203 / Nvidia SHIELD (2017) / Apple TV 4K / Sony 4K FMP-X10 / Gaming PC (Threadripper 1950X / 2x GeForce GTX 1080 Ti SLI) / PlayStation 4 Pro with PS VR / PlayStation (original)
Family: Sony 85" 4K XBR-85X900F / Denon AVR-X3400H 5.1 / Nvidia SHIELD (2017) / Apple TV 4K / C64 Mini - Game: LG 77" 4K OLED C8 / Denon AVR-X3400H 5.1 / Nvidia SHIELD (2017) / Apple TV 4K
bryantc is offline  
post #54 of 151 Old 03-20-2020, 02:40 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Josh Z's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Planet Boston, source of the spice, Melange.
Posts: 26,210
Mentioned: 43 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5200 Post(s)
Liked: 4266
Quote:
Originally Posted by bryantc View Post
Josh unless you've got some real data or screenshots your opinion is meaningless.
Give me a break. Even if your examples, I'm looking at the first pair of screenshots above and am having a really hard time figuring out which is supposed to be the "good" one. The first one is softer and noisier, but at least the Stormtrooper's armor is white. The second one is marginally sharper (still not great), but also dimmer and duller, and the color of the armor is off.

This is what you call vastly superior? At best, we've gone from poor to slightly less poor.

Josh Z
Television and Home Theater Writer/Editor, Primetimer.com

My opinions are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my employers, whomever they may be.
Josh Z is offline  
post #55 of 151 Old 03-20-2020, 02:45 PM
Absolute Ultimate AV
 
ARROW-AV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 4,847
Mentioned: 286 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4440 Post(s)
Liked: 7317
Quote:
Originally Posted by bryantc View Post
I assume you can use a search function. Here's a hint: Disney+ launched on Nov 12.


And here are some screenshots for you:


Spoiler!
I personally don't have the time nor inclination to trawl through search results on the Internet. You seem to know it all hence my simple request that you post some links to evidence to support your claims and statements.

Instead you have posted two screenshots without stating which is which.

Oh, and I happen to live in the UK... Here's a hint: Disney+ doesn't launch here until next week
.
Josh Z likes this.
ARROW-AV is offline  
post #56 of 151 Old 03-20-2020, 03:38 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
theblackangus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Des Moines, Iowa
Posts: 1,121
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 678 Post(s)
Liked: 423
Quote:
Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
Well it wouldn't be the first instance wherein this is the case. The same thing is with OBLIVION. The image with the 4K HDR version is also significantly worse than the regular Blu-Ray Disc
.

Glad Im not the only one to think this.
ARROW-AV likes this.
theblackangus is offline  
post #57 of 151 Old 03-20-2020, 09:25 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bryantc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Europa
Posts: 1,043
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 742 Post(s)
Liked: 676
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post
Give me a break. Even if your examples, I'm looking at the first pair of screenshots above and am having a really hard time figuring out which is supposed to be the "good" one. The first one is softer and noisier, but at least the Stormtrooper's armor is white. The second one is marginally sharper (still not great), but also dimmer and duller, and the color of the armor is off.

This is what you call vastly superior? At best, we've gone from poor to slightly less poor.
Josh as a professional reviewer you should already know that it is impossible to get an accurate screenshot of HDR material. These are meant to show the detail not colors or brightness.

And again if you can't see the difference in detail I don't know what to tell you. Just for the record in this thread you went from calling the Disney+ versions 4K, then 1080p, and finally 4K again but just bad quality.

I assume you also know that it has already been shown that the HDR on Disney+ is muted and this may or may not be the case on the 4K Blurays.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
I personally don't have the time nor inclination to trawl through search results on the Internet. You seem to know it all hence my simple request that you post some links to evidence to support your claims and statements.

Instead you have posted two screenshots without stating which is which.

Oh, and I happen to live in the UK... Here's a hint: Disney+ doesn't launch here until next week
.
I don't see what Disney+ launching in the UK has to do with you viewing screenshots. And I personally don't have the time nor inclination to be your search engine.

Media: LG 88" 8K OLED Z9 / Denon AVR-X8500H 7.1.4 / Oppo UDP-203 / Nvidia SHIELD (2017) / Apple TV 4K / Sony 4K FMP-X10 / Gaming PC (Threadripper 1950X / 2x GeForce GTX 1080 Ti SLI) / PlayStation 4 Pro with PS VR / PlayStation (original)
Family: Sony 85" 4K XBR-85X900F / Denon AVR-X3400H 5.1 / Nvidia SHIELD (2017) / Apple TV 4K / C64 Mini - Game: LG 77" 4K OLED C8 / Denon AVR-X3400H 5.1 / Nvidia SHIELD (2017) / Apple TV 4K
bryantc is offline  
post #58 of 151 Old 03-23-2020, 11:23 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Josh Z's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Planet Boston, source of the spice, Melange.
Posts: 26,210
Mentioned: 43 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5200 Post(s)
Liked: 4266
Quote:
Originally Posted by bryantc View Post
Josh as a professional reviewer you should already know that it is impossible to get an accurate screenshot of HDR material. These are meant to show the detail not colors or brightness.
First, thank you for deleting your original post and toning down the response. I know that we're all stuck at home and feeling a little on edge right now, but there's no need to make a simple debate about image quality personal.

Regarding screenshots... well, I didn't post them.

Quote:
And again if you can't see the difference in detail I don't know what to tell you.
Is there a difference in detail in those shots? Sure. Does either one look great? Not in my opinion. The "4k" image may be slightly better than the other one, but it still has a serious lack of surface detail on both C3PO and R2D2. It looks like a lot of detail and grain was sucked out with DNR.

The Chewbacca comparison is also interesting. At first glance, it appears that the bottom shot has a lot more detail in Chewie's fur. However, with about two minutes in Photoshop adding a little sharpening and tweaking the contrast, the top image can be made to look pretty darn close. With professional tools, I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard to get an exact match. I'm not convinced that what we're seeing there is actual detail rather than just additional processing.

Quote:
Just for the record in this thread you went from calling the Disney+ versions 4K, then 1080p, and finally 4K again but just bad quality.
I watched A New Hope on Disney+ with my kids a few weeks back and was thoroughly unimpressed. Without doing a direct comparison, the impression it gave me was that Disney had just upconverted the Blu-ray transfer (from my memories of it) and given it an underwhelming HDR grade. When people started saying that Disney had actually rescanned the film elements, I took a closer look and compared directly against the Blu-ray. Doing that, I'll concede that there are differences in the two transfers. Nevertheless, I just don't think that the 4k transfer is "vastly superior" to the Blu-ray. It still looks over-processed in many scenes, and all of the 1997 SE changes are of course atrocious.

Is it the worst 4k image quality I've ever seen? No, what Sony did to Starship Troopers was a disaster, IMO. However, Star Wars still needs a proper and thorough restoration from all of the best surviving original film elements. That means more than just rescanning the compromised 1997 SE negative. Unfortunately, no one at either Lucasfilm nor Disney has any interest in doing that.

Quote:
I assume you also know that it has already been shown that the HDR on Disney+ is muted and this may or may not be the case on the 4K Blurays.
There's plenty of HDR content on Disney+ that doesn't look muted. I watched Frozen II with the kids yesterday and it looked fine. Even the later Star Wars movies have better HDR on Disney+ than the Original Trilogy.

Could this all really just be a Disney+ problem? I guess we'll see when the discs come out, but I'm not holding my breath for a revelatory improvement.

YMMV, as they say.

Josh Z
Television and Home Theater Writer/Editor, Primetimer.com

My opinions are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of my employers, whomever they may be.
Josh Z is offline  
post #59 of 151 Old 03-23-2020, 10:48 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bryantc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Europa
Posts: 1,043
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 742 Post(s)
Liked: 676
Josh we agree on this fact: the films have been remastered in 4K from the original negative. We have confirmation from Lucasfilm insiders on this fact and we can also see that there is a clear improvement in detail over the existing 1080p blu-ray, in addition to color changes. Now we can go around in circles arguing over how much improvement there is but that is down to opinion.


The only reason I even chimed in here was when someone said they cancelled their order because the original trilogy was only 1080p. And that is factually incorrect.

Media: LG 88" 8K OLED Z9 / Denon AVR-X8500H 7.1.4 / Oppo UDP-203 / Nvidia SHIELD (2017) / Apple TV 4K / Sony 4K FMP-X10 / Gaming PC (Threadripper 1950X / 2x GeForce GTX 1080 Ti SLI) / PlayStation 4 Pro with PS VR / PlayStation (original)
Family: Sony 85" 4K XBR-85X900F / Denon AVR-X3400H 5.1 / Nvidia SHIELD (2017) / Apple TV 4K / C64 Mini - Game: LG 77" 4K OLED C8 / Denon AVR-X3400H 5.1 / Nvidia SHIELD (2017) / Apple TV 4K
bryantc is offline  
post #60 of 151 Old 03-24-2020, 06:31 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: College Station, Texas
Posts: 2,375
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1147 Post(s)
Liked: 663
Quote:
Originally Posted by bryantc View Post
Josh we agree on this fact: the films have been remastered in 4K from the original negative. We have confirmation from Lucasfilm insiders on this fact and we can also see that there is a clear improvement in detail over the existing 1080p blu-ray, in addition to color changes. Now we can go around in circles arguing over how much improvement there is but that is down to opinion.


The only reason I even chimed in here was when someone said they cancelled their order because the original trilogy was only 1080p. And that is factually incorrect.
If the OT version are the ones currently on Disney+, which I think is confirmed, I can say for a fact they ARE an improvement over the Most recent Blu ray versions in the Complete Saga box set form 2011. Just because it's from old stock doesn't mean they can't still improve it. Single best example I can think of, go find the OG Batman TV show box set on blu ray, for something that was out on tv in the late 60's the blu ray version is jaw dropping.
liffie420 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Blu-ray Software

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off