Unofficial Blu-ray Audio and Video Specifications Thread - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 1971 Old 03-03-2007, 05:47 PM
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I was under the impression that DTS-HD (not Master Audio) was just a name change for full-rate DTS with a bitrate of 1.5mbps? Now I'm looking at the list of DTS-HD movies and it says all the movies have a bitrate of 3mbps. What gives?
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post #32 of 1971 Old 03-03-2007, 05:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GamerGuyX View Post

I was under the impression that DTS-HD (not Master Audio) was just a name change for full-rate DTS with a bitrate of 1.5mbps? Now I'm looking at the list of DTS-HD movies and it says all the movies have a bitrate of 3mbps. What gives?

DTS-HD is above 1.5mbps and up to 6mbps for the BD spec. 1.5 mbps is considered to be regular DTS. Check out the chart at this link.
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post #33 of 1971 Old 03-03-2007, 08:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benes View Post

Phew! I hope all this didn't confuse you even further.

Nope, not in the slightest. Thanks for the info.

Oh and you to MSmith83.
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post #34 of 1971 Old 03-07-2007, 11:35 PM
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You sound as excited as I am. I am sure you will have it up on Friday as well...LOL! Fortunately for me I just designed and built a home theater and there is a nice empty space waiting for the Pioneer, even have the HDMI cable ran up to the empty shelp just waiting to be plugged in.
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post #35 of 1971 Old 03-11-2007, 12:30 PM
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More info from PS3

Sentinel - 1:48:00 (MPEG-2) BD25
DTS HD MA 5.1*

Chain Reaction - 1:46:38 (MPEG-2) BD25
DTS HD MA 5.1*

Broken Arrow - 1:48:21 (MPEG-2) BD25
DTS HD MA 5.1*

Stranger than Fiction - 1:52:55 (MPEG-2) BD50
DD5.1 48kHz 640Kbps
LPCM 5.1 48kHz 4.6 Mbps

Saw III - 1:53:44 (MPEG-2) BD25
DTS HD HR*
DD5.1-EX 48kHz 640Kbps

Manchurian Candidate - 2:09:51 (MPEG-2) BD50
DD5.1 48kHz 640Kbps
DTS 5.1 48kHz 1.5Mbps

Flyboys - 2:18:42 (MPEG-2) BD50
DTS HD MA 5.1*

Ladder 49 - 1:55:04 (AVC) BD50
DD5.1 48kHz 640Kbps
LPCM 5.1 48kHz 6.9Mbps

*According to coverart and menus (since PS3 currently doesn't support DTS HD)
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post #36 of 1971 Old 03-13-2007, 02:56 PM
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I really don't mean to bash but seeing that movies like Casanova and not action movies having the highest bitrate makes me want to wait until 2nd or 3rd release of movies, I was hoping they could get it right the first time.

I know this step up on all these titles are better than their SD DVD counterparts.

I am happy to see audio is being implemented better, I was never a huge fan of DVD audio considering what LaserDisc was capable of.

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post #37 of 1971 Old 04-08-2007, 05:21 PM
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cool!
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post #38 of 1971 Old 04-19-2007, 07:37 PM
 
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Benes,

Thank you for all of the hard work on this; this is just awesome.
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post #39 of 1971 Old 04-20-2007, 01:23 PM
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Curious about wordlength:

--DTS (lossy compression) 24-bit/48kHz
--Dolby Digital AC3 (lossy compression) 16-bit/48kHz

How does one verify that the soundtrack source was 16 vs 24 bits in these two lists? Is that listed on the jacket?

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post #40 of 1971 Old 04-20-2007, 04:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

Curous about wordlength:

--DTS (lossy compression) 24-bit/48kHz
--Dolby Digital AC3 (lossy compression) 16-bit/48kHz

How does one verify that the soundtrack source was 16 vs 24 bits in these two lists? Is that listed on the jacket?

Some players specify whether the DTS track is 24/48 or 20/48. I've never seen a player claim 24/48 for DD5.1 -- is that even supported by your toolset?

Two years ago, we never saw 24/48 DTS on DVDs. Now some titles have 20/48 and others apparently have 24/48, as reported by players. I'm guessing 24/48 support is a relatively new addition to the DTS encoding toolset?
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post #41 of 1971 Old 04-20-2007, 09:20 PM
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I have no idea whether DTS can do so or not, but Dolby Digital has no means to capture and report the wordlength of the source PCM. The output rez is determined by the DSP design.

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post #42 of 1971 Old 04-21-2007, 10:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

I have no idea whether DTS can do so or not, but Dolby Digital has no means to capture and report the wordlength of the source PCM. The output rez is determined by the DSP design.

That might be something to consider for a future version of your spec, for marketing purposes if nothing else.
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post #43 of 1971 Old 04-23-2007, 01:23 PM
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Quote:


I have no idea whether DTS can do so or not, but Dolby Digital has no means to capture and report the wordlength of the source PCM. The output rez is determined by the DSP design.

Roger,

that's true for Dolby lossy, right? Dolby True HD lossless can precisely match the input-word length upon decoding/output...right? (assuming given bit-for-bit data reconstruction)

Great thread!

1080p and lossless audio. EVERY BD should have them both.
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post #44 of 1971 Old 04-25-2007, 12:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaViD Boulet View Post

Roger,

that's true for Dolby lossy, right? Dolby True HD lossless can precisely match the input-word length upon decoding/output...right? (assuming given bit-for-bit data reconstruction)

In TrueHD, it is unnecessary for the codec to know the wordlength, as it delivers exactly what was input to the output. All TrueHD decoders support up to 24 bits. If the source is, say, 16 bits, the output is 16 MSB bits with lossless data, and 8 LSB bits of zeros.

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post #45 of 1971 Old 04-25-2007, 05:10 AM
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Got it.

So the literal output of the decoder is always 24 bits, though the effective resolution within that 24 bit-word was exactly the bit-word that was encoded originally (16 to 24) and any remaining "unused" Least significant bits are left at 0.

Cool.

1080p and lossless audio. EVERY BD should have them both.
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post #46 of 1971 Old 05-01-2007, 11:21 AM
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Anybody know the audio specs for "Legends of Jazz Showcase"?
I know it's Dolby TrueHD, but what resolution and frequency?
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post #47 of 1971 Old 05-05-2007, 04:29 AM
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Hey! I'm planning to purchase The Science of Sleep, OSS 117 and Prete-Moi Ta Main from Amazon.fr. Just wondering if they come with english subs. Anyone know?

I WANT "A MIGHTY HEART" IN BLU-RAY!
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post #48 of 1971 Old 05-16-2007, 09:43 AM
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could we update this to include the newly released TrueHD movies Stomp the Yard and Letters from Iwo Jima?
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post #49 of 1971 Old 05-19-2007, 12:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

In TrueHD, it is unnecessary for the codec to know the wordlength, as it delivers exactly what was input to the output. All TrueHD decoders support up to 24 bits. If the source is, say, 16 bits, the output is 16 MSB bits with lossless data, and 8 LSB bits of zeros.

Hmmmm... I've just checked with the Nero TrueHD decoder and a test 5.1 TrueHD chunk ("Nero Splitter -> Nero Audio Decoder -> Dump" in Graphedit). The TrueHD chunk is supposed to be 16bit only. But the 8 LSB bits are not zero. At least if I convert the extracted raw PCM stream to 16bit and then back to 24bit, the end result differs from the original raw PCM stream. Is it possible that the Nero Decoder is doing some additional processing on the data? Is there a way I can check if the TrueHD is really 16bit? Can I see it from the TrueHD header somehow which bitdepth the track was encoded with?

Thanks!!
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post #50 of 1971 Old 06-14-2007, 01:09 AM
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Sorry if this is old news, but the Scandinavian release of Flags of our Fathers contains a PCM 24/48 track which is absent from the US release.

I won't pay a cent for UHD Blu-rays made from 2K masters by upscaling.
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post #51 of 1971 Old 06-14-2007, 06:50 AM
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Quote:


Hmmmm... I've just checked with the Nero TrueHD decoder and a test 5.1 TrueHD chunk ("Nero Splitter -> Nero Audio Decoder -> Dump" in Graphedit). The TrueHD chunk is supposed to be 16bit only. But the 8 LSB bits are not zero. At least if I convert the extracted raw PCM stream to 16bit and then back to 24bit, the end result differs from the original raw PCM stream. Is it possible that the Nero Decoder is doing some additional processing on the data? Is there a way I can check if the TrueHD is really 16bit? Can I see it from the TrueHD header somehow which bitdepth the track was encoded with?

Thanks!!

Does that track have Dialog Normlaization applied?

If so, dialog-normalization causes the chip to re-calculate every bit-word in the entire waveform to perform digital-level-attenuation (like a digital volume control). This processing would be done in the 24-bit realm and the 24-bit output from the new calculated data would proabaly be left in full 24-bit mode and not decimated back to 16 bits. That's the most likely reason why you're not seeing all 0s for those remaining 8 LSBs.

This forced data-recalculation means that any TrueHD signal with DN applied CAN NOT provide a bit-for-bit output of the PCM ("0" LSB for padding to 24-bits to not change any actual data) to the d/a converter because the data-recalculation is forced upon the signal before the audio data leaves the Dolby engine.

It's one reason why Sony has adapted to the audiophile demand here at AVS and chosen NOT to apply DN to any TrueHD stream. This means that only TrueHD tracks on Sony Blu-ray discs, at the moment are actually able to provide bit-for-bit accuracy to the original LPCM.

1080p and lossless audio. EVERY BD should have them both.
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post #52 of 1971 Old 06-23-2007, 08:12 PM
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Can anybody please tell me the audio bitrates for all the soundtracks on Toto: Live in Amsterdam, Pat Metheny: The Way Up Live and The Lost City.

Thanks in advance.
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post #53 of 1971 Old 06-23-2007, 09:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pteittinen View Post

Sorry if this is old news, but the Scandinavian release of Flags of our Fathers contains a PCM 24/48 track which is absent from the US release.

WOW pteittinen,

I sure didn't know about that!

What company distributes it there, WB?

Can you post a link where one can purchase it?
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post #54 of 1971 Old 08-05-2007, 05:45 AM
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If not already mentioned...

Chris Botti Live with Orchestra and Special Guests. The audio is pcm 96kHz 24bit at 13.8Mbps and is superb
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post #55 of 1971 Old 08-28-2007, 09:34 AM
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Benes,
This is the most important thread to guide Blu-ray owners as to which discs to buy and which to pass over. Discs released at low disc rates are prime candidates for re-release in the future. Its an expensive game for consumers to get caught up in. For example how many times has Terminator III been released on SD-DVD?

Sony even followed up on this quality-come-late gimmick with their own SD-DVD Superbit releases. These discs though DID look better...

So here we are with Blu-ray where many discs have the audio truncated from the studio master (24 bits) to 16 bits. And the video released on BD-25 discs.
Now however most of the BD50 discs are knockouts. Especially the AVC encoded ones, with their lossless 24 bit studio master audio being preserved.

paidgreek gave the following response about Sony's past practice of truncating the audio to 16 bits then having the audacity to claim it was mastered lossless:

Question Posted by reincarnate
-----------------------
"You answered my question several months ago as to why Sony was truncating the studio master audio tracks to 16 bits. You said that with several languages on the soundtrack, that lack of disc space was an issue. Is is still an issue with lossless compression and BD50 discs?
Or is it because certain players are unable to decode the lossless formats? Please clarify as we consumers want all studios to release at the 24 bit industry standard. The esteemed Bob Stuart of Meridian did a study and determined that 20+ bits was necessary."

Answer Posted By paidgeek
---------------------
"Beginning with newer titles and whenever possible, SPE will provide the original 24bit soundtrack with lossless encoding. If space or bandwidth contraints require it, we may encode at 20 bit, or in some instances 16 bit. This will be handled case by case based on a number of factors."

This is great news (using all of the 50GB of data capacity efficiently) and I again thank Sony and paidgreek.
Speaking now from experience, high bit rates DO make a noticeable improvement in the audio and video quality.
I will use your list in conjunction with the Kris Deering's reviews over at Secrets:
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/main.html


https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=2552
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post #56 of 1971 Old 08-28-2007, 06:25 PM
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I partially concur on the comments made by "reincarnate". I think it also depends upon how the movie was shot. For ex, the dramas like CSI, Cold Case etc are shot in HD camera with special color filters producing a glossy image. I think very few film directors adopt this kind of shooting style.

Blu-ray : 340
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post #57 of 1971 Old 08-29-2007, 04:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lgans316 View Post

I partially concur on the comments made by "reincarnate". I think it also depends upon how the movie was shot. For ex, the dramas like CSI, Cold Case etc are shot in HD camera with special color filters producing a glossy image. I think very few film directors adopt this kind of shooting style.

Your point is understood. If the source is originally recorded in HD MPEGII then its should be released as is, even if the bit rate is relatively low.

I find your stylistic effects comments (which some of the networks especially CBS are shooting their TV series) extremely interesting. I've immediately noticed this induced distortion and as a result change the channel. I can't stand it. Buying discs recorded using this technique is simply out of the question.
To these eyes the network executives have made a poor judgment call in trying to "be hip". Maybe they should shoot the CBS Evening News to make Katie Couric look both glossy and goulash*? And then use that natural lighting too?
Note: file story under Halloween and why network ratings are down.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Contrast this cool, cold, glossy look with the Panasonic cameras which shoot American Idol on Fox, even if they are only recorded at 1280. Show is rated numero-uno. Or House. Or HDNet. Optimized technical quality still sells.
Note: cut at dotted line and file under why network ratings are up


*or ghoulish - use whichever is more funny
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post #58 of 1971 Old 09-06-2007, 09:15 AM
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I think there should be another section at the top for lpcm @ 24bit 96khz for Chris Botti Live with Orchestra and Special Guests. The audio is pcm 96kHz 24bit at 13.8Mbps. Can this be added?
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post #59 of 1971 Old 09-06-2007, 02:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil Joseph View Post

I think there should be another section at the top for lpcm @ 24bit 96khz for Chris Botti Live with Orchestra and Special Guests. The audio is pcm 96kHz 24bit at 13.8Mbps. Can this be added?

Ahhh...what an incredible audio track this disc has! Simply stunning.

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post #60 of 1971 Old 09-20-2007, 05:49 AM
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Here's the list I have been using for codecs and audio for BDs. I sort it dependent on what I'm specifically looking for (in this example, the audio).

http://www.blu-raystats.com/index.php?OrderBy=Audio
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